What modifier should I add to weapons and armor made of brass?

What modifier should I add to weapons and armor made of brass?

I know it depends on the system, but should I give it a little or big penalty?

Other urls found in this thread:

worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/11899/alternate-alloys-for-weapons-and-armor
globalspec.com/learnmore/materials_chemicals_adhesives/metals_alloys/nonferrous_metals_alloys/copper_brass_bronze_alloys
jewelrynotes.com/the-mohs-scale-of-hardness-for-metals-why-it-is-important/
youtube.com/watch?v=lbNoCC8_ztA
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Depends what the baseline is.

Brass is pretty heavy and not exactly a weapons grade metal...

Make them shit for physical combat. But maybe for magical kit they could have a bonus.

+1 to whatever social attributes your system uses for looking fucking sweet.

Yes, one of my players want to use a brass sword and armor.

I was thinking of giving it a small penalty, like -25% dmg.

>Yes, one of my players want to use a brass sword and armor.
Then just let him say his armour and weapons are brass. There's no need to put penalties on him.

t.player
If you want to use a metal that is weaker than iron, fine, but don't complain that it's weaker than iron.

What this guy said.
No reason at all to penalize your players for fluffing their character in little aesthetic ways.
That means they have ideas and creative input.
That is what you want.

> brass

Did you mean bronze? Bronze weapons did exist and do work, and aren't even really that worse than iron (if all you have is medieval-era tech). But nobody made brass weapons except for ceremonial purposes.

Sorry user, being a snowflake has a price. Also changing a core material is nowhere close to trimming. If he just wanted to decorate his weapons, then sure pay someone and do it. But changing a whole metal is another thing.

No brass, he wants to be the brass knight.

>Sorry user, being a snowflake has a price.

Why?

The player should probably dump you, you don't deserve him.

Why would it do so much less damage? Brass is very strong, stronger than iron.
I think you don't know shit about metals. Just let him have it, as you are not educated enough to make these decisions.

>player wants to be a fun theme knight
>you punish him

I would love to have a player make a fun theme knight. Like Shovel Knight, of their own initiative.

>a small penalty, like -25% dmg
>t.player
>being a snowflake has a price

Kill yourself, the world doesn't need more GMs like you.

0/10 would not play in your campaign

>Player comes up with fun idea
>"I'll teach you to come up with a neat idea to get invested in my game with!"

Quit the RPG Scene entirely.

>unironically using the word snowflake

Ohhhhh. Sorry, I get it now. I didn't realize you were a cunt.

Beyond the ad hominem, though, the dms job is usually to say "yes, and." Tell him that brass is weaker than iron, so if he wants to go that route, that's cool, but he could get brass plating and trim on his armor. Literally the only reason I'm not saying "just let it be brass for free" is because brass is expensive and I've known too many players who would end up using that as an income stream.

but brass is stronger than iron.
worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/11899/alternate-alloys-for-weapons-and-armor
It's just also kinda heavier.

I've seen people make it so their dice is more centralized (for want of a better word, I'm sure there is one).
So like 1d12 -> 2d6
1d8 -> 2d4 etc

Meh, it was used for ages. It depends on whether or not its being used against other brass weapons in which case it is the baseline.

If used against iron or steel have it require maintenance to ensure a sharp edge and repair excess damage, or reduce the ac by 1.

I mean, system would help.

If its magical don't bother, because its just as good as anything else with a +1 in front of it.

Give me exactly one (1) reason why that makes any sense whatsoever. Under that system brass deals more damage than steel on average.

brass is heavier.

Because other people are using steel weapons.

t.snowflake
Sorry user, not going to cuddle.

>Brass is very strong, stronger than iron.
Kill yourself you retard.

>want to be a special snowflake
>alright you can, but it's stupid because X
>why are you punishing me?
INT needs to be at least 10 to play.

Yes it's true.

You go kill yourself, go play videogames if you want to play without thinking.

Bye.

>you are being mean
>by being realistic
Lolno.

It is being a snowflake to want to be the bling knight.

And yes, I did warn him why it would be a bad idea but I'm not stopping him.

You really shouldn't link things you don't undestand about. mPa is nowhere a meter for damage nor is iron weaker than brass.

Brass is closer to bronze, which is nowhere close to Iron or the setting Steel.

globalspec.com/learnmore/materials_chemicals_adhesives/metals_alloys/nonferrous_metals_alloys/copper_brass_bronze_alloys
jewelrynotes.com/the-mohs-scale-of-hardness-for-metals-why-it-is-important/

More dice usually means more 'minimum damage' through.

>hardness>tensile strength for weapons and armor
Retard detected

lolwut? You're the one who needs to go play video games if you're not going to be flexible.

So what you are telling me is brass has a tensile strength higher than iron, a hardness comparable to bronze, and a weight heavier than steel.

That would actually make it really good for arms and armor. Hard to wear, hard enough to kill a man easy, heavy enough to kill a man super hard.

It just requires a strong guy to wield.

>Thread universally calls you stupid
>"No, I'm right!"

Alright, everyone. OP is an idiot, leave him to his thread and go to a thread worth anything.

>inb4 "Jokes on you, I made you think I was retarded!"

Yeah, I guess he is pretty dumb.
I wish there was some way to save dumb people.

We could institute some sort of policy where they are forbidden from breeding.

I'd rather I was just able to strap them into the brainalizer chair and they stop being retarded.
Or maybe I make them wear a special smart helmet.

I wish these things existed.

You sound like the kind of GM people write "That GM" stories about. I hope your player gets fed up with your shit.

>If its magical don't bother, because its just as good as anything else with a +1 in front of it.
Not every magical property have to be "+x damage". You could make it so brass is a good "magic conductor" which give a bonus to imbue spells on it or something for example.

Well, if magic is anything like heat, it is.

What would happen if we put a person of above-average intelligence into the brainalizer chair?

Their head -probably- explodes.

>Retard detected
>doesn't even know how mPA works

It's more like 'you can do that, but that's bad because X.'.

In fact even a bone: just trim it.

Tensile strenght doesn't work this way.

Second user it really isn't better than steel for armor. Steel is protects much more.

>right is a popularity contest
Good thing you are not on my table.

>That GM who let me do stupid things but act realistic
Good luck with your story.

You do not understand hardness and tensile strength, user.

>Because other people are using steel weapons.

And? Why does it matter?

they act as fuel, draining all their intelligence until they are a husk, and adding it on in scaling value proportional value to the stupidity of the next person to sit in the chair, potentially you could drain hundreds of smart people and dump all the int into a low functioning retard and make the God-Emperor.

>tfw to intelligent to use the brainalizer chair

kys senpai

Compromise brah. It's "brass coated" everything is clear and clean, maybe promote the player ensuring it is nice and shiny by paying a small fee to have its coating reapplied after particularly fierce battles. Then wave the fee if the brass knight makes a name for himself.

You don't know that when you hit something you aren't using a magical damage meter converted from mPA.

It matters because you want to be special, to be different from them. So sure, feel free to do so. But do it in a smart way, trim with gold, add gemstones and deduct from your gold. But changing the most effective common material is stupid.

If you're talking about how these things would actually work, the brass and steel weapons should have the exact same statlines, with the brass possibly having a +1 for extra weight and some durability penalties.

kys

Yes, I told him he could trim it. I said it many times in this thread but idiots don't read. In fact I don't even made it a permanent fee, jsut pay a bit more at start. But no, he wants it 100% brass.

Now I kinda want to know if the "brass knight" concept was just an aesthetic or if the player had an archetype like a Blade Mage.
If so, OP could work it out like that: small physical penalty but small magical bonus.

Cheaper
Easier to break
Easily replaceable

Iron is more expensive and more durable

Steel is near-miraculous and expensive as a motherfucker.

Brass and bronze should be the baseline, or just nonexistent.

Why should they have the same statlines user? Or are you going to argue now that Brass is as good as Steel?

Please user, don't do that. I couldn't take it.

Because it's hard enough to be usable as a weapon, so form factor and weight would be the more important details in how much damage it does.

The differences in the metals would show in their long term durability. The actual damage difference would be negligible to minor in the favor of whichever's heavier.

He wants to bling, but didn't want gold because it's too expensive.

Pretty much.

Still, I think brass is more expensive than iron but frankly I'm not sure.

>Yes, I told him he could trim it. I said it many times in this thread but idiots don't read. In fact I don't even made it a permanent fee, jsut pay a bit more at start. But no, he wants it 100% brass.

No, people are reading it. They are saying that it's not really worth applying a penalty to.

I mean, the Dark Sun rules for STONE weapons don't apply a penalty (Beyond having a chance to break if you roll a 1). Brass wouldn't have even that much.

sure, no problem with that. Didn't see what op specified as the system so I went for something generic.

the point I was getting at is at a certain point you can hand wave a lot of physics with magic because lord dark-edges obsidian blade forged in the fires of mount doom isnt going to shatter versus a common iron longsword despite the fact that it should chip and shatter with ungentle clinking in its sheathe by typical logic.

Brass shouldn't really do reduced damage, but rather increase the ac of metal armour against it by whatever amount. Possibly 20% of the base ac of the armour. Alternatively, just have the weapon take small amounts of damage as it strikes metal armour. I think pathfinder has rules for that.

I've seen people bandying around pretty hefty reductions in damage without much justification for it.

Why punish a player for their fluff when its ultimate impact on gameplay is so nil. Are you so invested in realism that you would reduce your players fun for its sake? Does realism deserve that kind of pedestal?

>It matters because you want to be special, to be different from them. So sure, feel free to do so. But do it in a smart way, trim with gold, add gemstones and deduct from your gold. But changing the most effective common material is stupid.

Why not? Silver weapons are a fantasy staple and Silver is a lot worse than Bronze for this purpose.

>Hey guys, my player, instead of going full murderhobo half angel half demon, want to have an interesting and creative theme!
>How should I punish him?

Sigh.

Here is a quick video:
youtube.com/watch?v=lbNoCC8_ztA

>different form factors
Well, you didn't read the post you responded to.

There is however still a very noticeable change through.

And frankly, I think some people here are suffering from tunnel reason. I mean, okay, suppose I made it mechanically equal to steel. Then, to be fair, do I make everyone treat it like it was steel? Will nobody on the world notice the dude walking with an armor made with an uncommon material that isn't used for armor? When it sells (which I'm sure he will when he gets something better), then does the whole knight persona is dropped? Do he receive more money, less?

Sorry, but saying to 'just ignore it' doesn't cut out.

Unless you're going full dwarf-fortress-style simulationist physics for everything, and every attack in combat involves a good few hours of calculations determining force, strike angle, and taking into account pre-existing microfractures, there's zero reason why brass weapons and armour should have any kind of penalty. Every other combat system is suffisiently granular that the differences in physical properties between, say, steel and brass, are negligible and not worth any kind of mechanical penalty.

If you want to be realistic, give it a damage bonus and a penalty to durability.
If you don't want to concede to physics, make them the same.
If you want to use the same level of granularity as the system you are using, make them the same.

>Brass shouldn't really do reduced damage, but rather increase the ac of metal armour against it by whatever amount. Possibly 20% of the base ac of the armour. Alternatively, just have the weapon take small amounts of damage as it strikes metal armour. I think pathfinder has rules for that.
Those are actually pretty good.

>Why punish a player for their fluff when its ultimate impact on gameplay is so nil.
Because their fluff impact the setting, so they should impact the gameplay.

>Then, to be fair, do I make everyone treat it like it was steel? Will nobody on the world notice the dude walking with an armor made with an uncommon material that isn't used for armor?

About as much as the Green Knight or the Red Knight or basically any other knight. There is kinda a history of that.

>Will nobody on the world notice the dude walking with an armor made with an uncommon material that isn't used for armor?
A few people might. It could lead to some fun interactions.

>When it sells (which I'm sure he will when he gets something better), then does the whole knight persona is dropped?
That's up to him I guess.

>Do he receive more money, less?
He just receives the normal amount. It's mechanically identical, just refluffed.

Yes, you can use your silver sword when I use werewolves.

This isn't Terraria through.

>Because their fluff impact the setting, so they should impact the gameplay.

So do you have characters who choose to play short characters do less damage because they are 5ft rather than 6? Or handle spears less well?

meh. the difference is minimal and it detracts from fun the players might have. we may have to agree to disagree given different priorities towards gaming.

Consequence != Punishing
Also user, I think maybe the reaction is this thread is because Veeky Forums is so used to abysmal players they are protective of every one who seems to be putting some effort.

He isn't. He wanted to be a gold knight, when I showed the price he changed to brass. That's it.

But user, OP seems to be playing in a terrarria setting, since he things different metals in your weapon would magically change the damage when that was not actually the case if they were at all comparable in density.
The reason you want better metals is so your weapons stop breaking so often, not to do more damage.

Silver weapons do -1 damage and they are much, much worse for making weapons than Brass. Do you propose to make it -0.5 damage? It's hard to make a penalty smaller than that.

>I mean, okay, suppose I made it mechanically equal to steel. Then, to be fair, do I make everyone treat it like it was steel? Will nobody on the world notice the dude walking with an armor made with an uncommon material that isn't used for armor? When it sells (which I'm sure he will when he gets something better), then does the whole knight persona is dropped? Do he receive more money, less?
You are a massive fucking retard.
Just because it's MECHANICALLY identical to steel doesn't mean you have to ROLEPLAY that it's exactly the same as steel.
Like this shouldn't even be a question, how thick do you have to be?
And what makes you think he'll want to sell his gear if he finds something better? Not all actions that people make are based on what's going to make them produce the biggest numbers in combat.

Funny thing: 3.5 actually had rules for such things.

Brass just had different hardiness/HP. Not damage or accuracy.

>Consequence != Punishing
Then why are you acting like they have to be the same thing?

>You are a massive fucking retard.
>Just because it's MECHANICALLY identical to steel doesn't mean you have to ROLEPLAY that it's exactly the same as steel.
Are you fucking retarded or did you miss that was exactly my point?

If it's mechanical identical to steel but it affects fluff, it shouldn't be 'just like steel'. It needs to be different.

Go kill yourself.

That's significantly more realistic than giving it a damage penalty. Kudos 3.5.

>Then why are you acting like they have to be the same thing?
How is it punishing saying it's less effective than the metal everyone uses?

So, do you want the brainalizer or the helmet? I mean, the case has been made pretty clear both in physics and in rules that it won't work the way you want it to work.

Probably because your suggested penalties have nothing to do with how weapons work in anything outside of terraria and minecraft.

Honestly if you are whacking someone with a sharp bit of metal the makeup would make little difference

Because you are making someone less effective for something that is purely fluff.

I mean, D&D is a setting where you can make armour out of wood that has the same stats as steel. Brass is kinda a lot closer to steel than that.

>I'm too stupid and missed the point of the thread
Yes, that was exactly to point the penalties/consequences so I can consider them. You are too dumb user, please leave.

That's if you're going by how things work in the real world.
If OP is using a warcraft or terrarria setting, then BETTER METAL MORE DAMAGE.

So that sounds like you are asking for the helmet.

The point of the thread is to suggest penalties, my God kill yourself. When I said damage that was a throw at wind, if I see better consequences I will pick them. More intelligent anons than you suggested increased enemy AC, less item HP, more price. Use your brain or leave.

So that sounds that you run out of arguments. Feel free to get out now.

You consistently refused those options and continued arguing it should have different amounts of damage, user.
If you didn't do that, then you wouldn't have 23 people calling you stupid.
Like, I told you several times the damage would be the same but the durability would be different, and only now are you capitulating to that.

>The point of the thread is to suggest penalties, my God kill yourself.

But, as people have said, penalties don't make much sense. The scale between steel and brass is basically non-existent on the sort of scale most roleplaying games work with.

I didn't have to say I didn't say Terraria because 'better metal' mentality, I said Terraria because 'the more expensive the better' irreal mentality.

A correct setting really is Dwarf Fortress. Gnomoria too, being clear with Copper < Bronze < Iron < Steel.

>the point of the thread
>was exactly to point the penalties/consequences so I can consider them.
Well here you go. Strap yourself the fuck in because you're about to get learned.

The consequences of using brass in weapons and armour are not significant enough to warrant any kind of mechanical disadvantage.
Boom. Fucking done. Thread over.

Well, hey, if you want to ignore physics and game balance, there's not many arguments I can use on your special snowflake system.

Nah, you're using the stellaris/terrarria/warcraft method of "the metal is better so it do more damage".
In reality, they do about the same damage, with slight variances for weight. The quality of metal comes into play with long term durability, primarily, with some extreme piercing fringe cases.

>You consistently refused those options and continued arguing it should have different amounts of damage, user.
Why are you being retarded user?

I'm arguing just against the idiots who think Brass is harder than steel or iron. That's not arguing to damage, it's arguing against stupidity.

No, the point of this thread is to demonstrate that you're a shithead.

Brass is significantly tougher than iron, given its lesser hardness and higher tensile strength. Much less prone to outright shattering, while only about as likely to warp as bronze.

Except by the clear differences in hardiness, melting point, malleability and etc?

And how many systems actually represent the boiling point of your weapon when you get hit with a fire weapon?

Very few systems represent any of those things.

The differences which are comparable to less than a -1 penalty for using a significantly lesser quality metal like silver or gold?
Because that is the level of abstraction most games tend to be on. Unless you are doing an incredibly granular system, it would be incredibly odd to include a real penalty.

>the clear differences in hardiness, melting point, malleability and etc?
Which are not significant enough to warrant a mechanical disadvantage.
Do you even read these posts before replying, you colossal tool?

You're all cooking in a bait bread

Do your setting have magic or not?
If yes, no modifiers unless special magical metals.
If no and super realistic, then negative modifiers if you hate the player and have a steel rod up your ass.

this

I actually think OP is genuine.

Hey OP unless you're going to eliminate all giants, dragons, and other such creatures from your campaign because their size would be far too large to support itself in real life (due to the square-cube law), and unless you're going to be tracking how often the players need to piss and shit and possibly menstruate while on the road, and their calories in/calories out intake with rations to determine whether they can maintain or grow their STR scores, or how good their vitamin intake is with poor nutrition punished by scurvy, et cetera, then i feel like you're being needlessly anal about the consequences of brass armor