What sort of insane galactic war was going on that it caused the birth of Khorne?
>inb4 any war related to Earth
I highly doubt that, considering it took a massive galaxy-wide orgy by the Eldar to give birth to him/her. The fighting that created Khorne would've probably been of similar scale IMO.
I don't think it was a single cataclysmic event, I think it was more like a certain threshold was hit.
Isn't it canonically the War in Heaven?
Canonically that is what happened according to the fluff. But technically they were always around, just not sapient or in their current malicious forms.
And I think I heard it said that it's apparently due to humans having a weird connection to the warp, but have no idea whether or not that was headcanon or real. It was never explained beyond that so take it with a grain of salt.
Humans did have a weird connection to the warp, but that's not the version of the story that BL is currently using so it's just a matter of picking your flavor of skub.
Humans are reckless with spiritual energy, that's why. They are extremely prone to becoming warp-maddened sorcerers instead of the disciplined psyker. All Eldar are potent pskyers and even at rock bottom they rarely fell to using sorcery. Monkeigh a shit.
Chaos works in mysterious ways.
The War in Heaven probably planted the seeds for his existence what with it being the largest and most violent war in the history of the Galaxy.
According to lore, Khorne was nascent, a minor diety flickering at the edge of consciousness before being brought to consciousness by Ghengis Khans march across Eurasia. It's likely the War in Heaven laid the ground work and humanity provided the spark that lit the dry tinder the WIH had piled up
I think it's safe to say that for all four of the chaos gods really. They all thrive on war and strife in some forms, Khorne just does it directly.
Eldar didn't had to evolve in an era where the warp was a hellish shithole. They didn't have to evolve at all. Fucking designer sissies.
>Being jealous of perfection
Actually, the warp was calm during early human development. These were the years of ease and decadence in Eldar civilization. Humans fucked it all up on their own.
No, it wasn't. It was full of daemons and monsters. The Necron Pylons kept most of them out.
Drach'nyen one of the most powerful daemons of Chaos was born when the first sentient human killed his fellow human in cold blood.
Be'lakor ruled a thousand space empires between the War in Heaven to Fall of Eldar.
Actually, they did but the Old Ones had the thread of Chaos contained using technologies such as the daemon cages and the Webway. The War in Heaven led Chaos breaking free from its bonds and destroying the Old Ones.
But the Necron fixed by constructing the Pylon Network but before they finished the job, the Eldar drove them to their tombs.
>According to lore
You mean according to yourself. Sick of people that don't get the lore right.
thanks user you convinced me with those hot opinions
Come on cite your source. Lets check it out together and see how valid your lies are.
You said according to lore. What lore? ANSWER THE QUESTION.
>technically they were always around, just not sapient or in their current malicious forms.
So like Aku, then.
Does that mean all we need to kill them is a FOOOOOLISH SAMURAI WARRIOR WIELDING A MAGIC SWORD
And his own daughter.
>Not sapient
>Offered Be'lakor Undivided daemonhood long before the Fall of Eldar and even long before the rise of man
Why do people still stick to old lore that makes zero sense.
Loooong ago, in the distant past
I, Abaddon, the Warmaster of Chaos
Unleashed an unspeakable crusade
But a foooooolish Emperor
Wielding a group of loyalists
Stepped forth to oppose me
*bolter and phosphex noises*
before the final blow was struck
I ran away from the Siege of Terra
and flung myself towards the Eye
Where my evil is law!
Now I seek to return to the Materium
And undo the injustice that is the Imperium
fixed it, sorry, it's early
Yeah, that's a pretty rocky contradiction in the fluff.
Khorne as a vague energy existed long before the events of 40k, but like the other gods good and evil he wasn't sapient, active, or conscious. I don't know if it's changed, but IIRC the mass sacrifices of the Mesoamericans to war gods "kindled" his spirit into semi-sapience, and the Mongol invasions of Europe and Asia brought him to life. For the next 25,000 or so years he fought with other similar gods for dominance and ultimately absorbed them and became the top war god.
The reason 40k's own wars don't just keep spawning war gods is because Khorne hunts them before they can attain any power and absorbs them, since he knows that a fledgling god going unchecked could very easily become a threat to him thanks to how much killing there is in 40k.
Old Fantasy lore hints at the chaos gods being aspects of a single entity deep in the Warp called the Great One, Great Undivided, He who shall not be named, and the Unholy Chaos.
The Old Ones fought him and may or may not have trapped him in the Warp but his corruption spreads everywhere and can't be stopped unless the Warp is closed off for good. The chaos gods of Fantasy according to this concept are merely aspects of the Great One but are either unaware of it or want to destroy him so they can rule the Warp themselves. It's complicated but interesting and basically makes them Akus.
Bitch, don't lie. You are the same cunt from yesterday? No, you moron, Realm of Chaos book just says that the Undivided Being is a theory by scholars among many theories and that all their theories are pointless since no one can hope to understand the true nature of Chaos.
The rest of your post is childish lies.
Stop spewing your headcanon mixed it with retconned nonsense.
>Commits genocide regularly: Khorne
>Silly as fuck: Nurgle
>Plots, henchmen and magic abuse: Tzeentch
>Likes transforming into girls and seducing his nemesis for giggles: Slaanesh
>Creates a being that is directly responsible for his own ultimate defeat: Malal
Continued.....
Here is the lore from the Realms of Chaos book. It's just theories by scholars that are far from the truth and only good they do is attract daemons to them.
That particular user is a total jerkoff that spiuts his headcanon as if its true and gets his lies BTFO one after another by any fan of the setting with the source books. He is the cancer of the fanbase and like a cancer he most be removed.
>Drach'nyen one of the most powerful daemons of Chaos was born when the first sentient human killed his fellow human in cold blood.
>Be'lakor ruled a thousand space empires between the War in Heaven to Fall of Eldar.
Good lord this is shitty fluff. "Ayy, we have this setting where we have proof of gods, and turns out the bible wasn't actually right, because, you know, Chaos and shit. Better take Cain and Abel and turn it into some sort of hyper-daemon that fucks up even the Emperor but can be tamed by this one dude"
The fuck are you talking about? Also, it's from Slaves to Darkness. It's not listed as "one of many many scholar theories" but as one of two theories about the origins of Chaos. Ease up on the adhoms my dude.
A lot of WHF/WH40k lore is very hit or miss.
What are you talking about? The bible is true. Pious believes in Jebus and God despite being what he is and what he knows about the nature of the universe.
I mean the Great Flood was even mention in the HH.
>but can be tamed by this one dude"
Abaddon isn't one dude.
No, you are a liar and cretin.
See this This is "Realm of Chaos : Slaves of Darkness".
Eat the biggest nurglite dick, you poser. You think you can get one over a true Chaosfag? You thought wrong.
Two dudes kept tying in a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors.
>proof of gods
There isn't a single thing that qualifies the chaos gods as actual gods. They are not omnipotent, they are not omnipresent, and they are not omniscient. A god would requires nothing while in theory the chaos gods require mortals.
There's nothing to say there isn't a supreme god out there overseeing all of this. Warhammer draws its roots from Tolkien so the comparison can be made even for 40k: in Tolkien's mythos Illuvatar, God, is always there and technically in control, but Morgoth is still powerful enough to do tons of shit to the world and inflict enough suffering that for a time even the Valar, angels/demigods, think he's abandoned them or is too weak to fight Morgoth.
Even with all these Eldar and Ork and Chaos and Emperor gods running around there's nothing stating there isn't still some kind of god over all of them.
This.
Ignoring whatever retarded shit IE \s post refers to because the old lore made the most sense and was the best in terms of quality. The Chaos "gods" aren't gods at all, just manifestations of extreme human (and Eldar) emotions bound with mindless Warp energy to form sentient beings of great power. The Emperor's godlike power comes only from his worshipers and thousands of sacrificed psykers, and the Eldar only received their power from worship and faithful followers, just like the Chaos gods. They're all powerful, spiritual entities, but not gods. The Warp itself isn't even like a god or godlike place, it's just a swirling nebula of raw energy.
Even in Fantasy where the gods have much more godlike qualities and powers none of the gods are true gods. The Chaos gods and the Order gods are just powerful daemons that got shat out of the Warp when the gates failed, the other gods are supposedly manifestations of other Warp energies or the Chaos/Order gods, and the closest we come to true gods are the Old Ones and the Great Undivided (if he even exists). Ignoring again the retarded shared existence concept here too.
>the chaos gods don't fit a prominent description of the Christian God so they aren't gods
simply ebin
That would be a fine and valid point, if at the same time hack writers wouldn't go "But Chaos is all powerful multiversal omnipotent and invincible and doesn't really require anything because they are all-powerful you guys!".
And then they bring up some shit like Drachnyen being some sort of super demon made by Cain who doesn't take orders from nobody and doesn't afraid of anything.
>"But Chaos is all powerful multiversal omnipotent and invincible and doesn't really require anything because they are all-powerful you guys!".
The Antimonitor is all powerful, invincible, and omnipotent, and multiversal. But guess what? He isn't a god.
Generally, Undivided daemons take orders from nobody but themselves. The Chaos Gods have to dominate them or bargain with them. It's explained in the new 8th ED Index Chaos.
>hack writers wouldn't go "But Chaos is all powerful multiversal omnipotent and invincible and doesn't really require anything because they are all-powerful you guys!".
This irks me a lot in the Nu-Fluff of the End Times - AoS - 40k. Chaos is all of a sudden inexplicably unstoppable and omnipotent because 2edgy4u and shit writing.
The Warp is a twisted place where time has no meaning.
To humans, Khorne was born during the Crusades.
To Eldar and Orks, Khorne was born during the War in Heaven.
To Tau, "durrr im retarded i dont believe in fairytales oh my god the ethereal has turned all red and spikey after he took that weird talking sword from the tomb, now he's killing bobby and now hes killing me ooooh my gooooooood!"
>The Antimonitor
Capeshit get out reee!
>implying 40K and fantasy wasn't inspired by comics
They pretty much said that Jack Kirbu's new gods were some of the inspiration of AoS.
Jack Kirby isn't really capeshit. That guy clearly had much much bigger plans and creativity.
Did he ever do work in Europe? I imagine he could do some fucking godlike shite for 2000AD or Metal Hurlant.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was just the culmination of thousands of wars, general violence and bloodshed, etc. In any case, I'm glad they've turned away from/retconned the old "humans did it" bullshit, which didn't even make sense in the context of the shortsighted, underdeveloped Rogue Trader fluff.
Still, you could fit in things like the implication that Nurgle was involved in the Black Death by saying that it was an aftershock from his (re)awakening, instead of the thing that caused him to wake up.
Yeah, but I think it's implied that the Chaos Gods receded post-WiH, after the Enslavers hit and purged most complex life from the galaxy. There wasn't much left to feed them, so they waned and went dormant again.
That may just be my own extrapolations and headcanon, but it would be consistent with them reawakening later.
The war in heaven didn't involve daemons or chaos gods anyway. All it did was cause a lot of turbulence in the warp that would later lead to and form the basis of the chaos gods. But they didn't really form then.
Wrong. It did involve daemons. Haven't you read the Daemon cages lore?
Why are you being an asshole reciting Oldcron lore that was retconned a decade ago? The Chaos Gods and their daemons were active back then. Case in point Be'lakor.
>after the Enslavers hit and purged most complex life from the galaxy.
Fucking Oldcron nonsense harder to dislodge than a cancerous tumour. The Enslavers killed nothing. The Eldar Empire was ascendant and their allies were still around, and they were powerful enough to chase the Necrons to their tombs.
It was the Necron Pylons that banished Chaos back to the Warp where they belong.
Aren't Enslavers basically some wierd half-warp half-material lifeform?
I can imagine that if Chaos begins to form in the Warp, they push the more "primitive" lifeforms out of the Warp - suddenly whammo an Enslaver invasion.
It's the Nex- [black matter starts oozing from all orifices]
Shit, I always forget how much was retconned away from the WiH with the Newcron stuff. I still had the idea that the Enslavers were involved for some reason.
I do like me some Enslavers though.
It's implied they were since Trazyn has a corpse of one of the Enslavers in his collection but their involvement wasn't as apocalyptic as it was in the Oldcron lore.
According to the cannon khorne fully awoke during the middle ages. But take it with a grain of salt since he was probably already existant since the war in heaven since that was the biggest war in the galaxy.
The Indomitus Crusade
>Proof of gods
Is not the same as
>proof that ALL gods are real
Or are you telling me that every single religion to ever exist on earth is canon in WH40K?
In Warhammer, real earth religions are clearly wrong. Simple as that.
ah Carnac ! we didn't miss you at all !
I never left though.
a shame really
AFAIK, it was Gengis Khan
he, by himself, gave brth to khorne, who in turn thanked him by turning him into Doombreed
Ol' Ghengis and the Mongols if I remember right
That was my point, kinda. In 40k all modern-day monotheistic religions are non-existant and wrong in the regard of God existing. Yet still they asspulled Drachnyen to be this super important demon that came to be when Cain and Abel happened.
It wasn't a cataclysmic event. It was a few billion years of things killing things. Not all of them are Slaanesh you know.
Again, there's really nothing say there isn't a Christian or other denominatory god out there ruling over everything else, even if it's in secret.