Veeky Forums, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?

Veeky Forums, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?

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>muh secret club
>reeeeeee

fuck off

Haven't really given it much thought

My stance on loaded questions, however, is very poor.

Veeky Forums, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?

Is it pasta time?

I'm happy something I love is reaching out to more people and bringing them joy and happiness. If I didn't want as many people as possible to have the same pleasure I do, even if they prefer to play in different ways, I'd just be a fucking asshole.

I've been through this with vidya and literature. I'm sure I can weather it on one more platform. Cherry pick the little good what remains, ignore the rest.

>Not wanting more people to enjoy the hobby
Go fuck yourself with a cactus. The hobby changes and people make cool stuff about it. What's the problem with it, autist?

Tabletop roleplaying has and will always be secular so it has no bearing on me.

Tabletop games at least have a freedom that video games don't in that you can add, remove, or alter any elements you want to fit your GMing style. Yes, endorsing casualization and "inclusion" is a recipe for cancer, but on the other hand if someone starts gushing about this EPIC show they watch called Critical Role it's a wonderful indicator not to allow them at your table. Tabletop will never die as long as the GMs in charge refuse to put up with this kind of bullshit.

It's going to happen no matter what. It happened to vidya, It'll happen to tabletop.
The best you can do is be a perpetual nomad, moving from hobby to hobby, or become a hermit relegated to the hyper-autismal subsectors of the hobby.

...

>Muh, buh *sniff*, /teeg/ pls HALP my secret club is being used and enjoyed by more people, giving more money to developers of ttrpgs and propelling the hobby into new heights of popularity
>pls seriously it's bad I promise we have to stop it

Aren't video games in a fucking fantastic state right now? Sure, there's a lot of shit, but there's so much at this point that we're getting a constant stream of great games, to the point it's hard to keep up even if you only focus on a few genres.

Nobody who's ever posted "not your sekrit club" has ever actually contributed anything of value to what they're referring to.

They are and they aren't. I'd say RPGs are in a pretty meh place right now for example.

Why do we keep having this thread every half hour?

>hates loaded questions
>too much of a pussy to argue with questions premise
>on an anonymous games board

Then unload the question faggot, just like you unload your dad's balls on your own face.

More games than ever, more content than ever, more people to play with than ever? How is that a meh place? No matter what style of game you prefer, you have more options now than you ever did before.

No, jesus god no. Not high-budget games anyway.
As that user said, you have to pick and choose, but the problem with this is that with each passing day, your choice grows thinner as less developers trade interesting mechanics for mass appeal. It's even starting to happen to indie games. Now, you can either look really hard for good games, look into low budget games, or look to the past for titles that you never played, and SOMETIMES a new game comes along that's good.

>less developers trade interesting mechanics for mass appeal
Sorry, MORE developers

If new people are starting to play games like 5e and Pathfinder, because of a fucking twitch stream, RPGs will not be in a good place.

The entire point of the post isn't to have his or more likely your question answered in any actual way, it's just to find people to agree with him so that can jack off together about when the hobby used to be better, or to find people who disagree with him so he can attack them for not falling in line with his beliefs.

Either way, actually answering serves no purpose. Far better to simply point out his shithead attempt and leave it alone.

That sounds like it's more a problem with being a bitter, jaded faggot than with the quality of games.

This seems more about rose tinted glasses than actual truth.

Most games have always been less "good" and more about simply being enjoyable, if forgettable, experiences. You simply filter out the old ones that didn't stand the test of time and then just decide because the only games you remember are good, then the fact that not every game today is good means that games today are shit.

I was referring to video games.

The same applies. You might've had more of a point a few years ago, but 2017 has been a fucking fantastic year for vidya.

Glad to see tabletop games get more attention. Glad to see salty grogs mad that they'll be expected to have basic hygiene and social etiquette now that more normies will be hanging with us and playing tabletops. Hopeful that new blood will bring fresh ideas and perspectives to the hobby.

what turns one into a bitter, jaded faggot?
garbage corporate products, that's what
there's a good reason for people being jaded and bitter when devs can just lock away parts of a game that's already on the disk unless you pay a fee

Not for RPGs, besides P5.

You act like base greed over a product produced by a company is a new thing.

>I simply am ASTOUNDED that a person could be so ENTITLED as to find flaws in a masterpiece such as generic shooter #23 of this year alone, how could anyone be so BITTER AND JADED?

So this issue is relatively new to discussion (I didn't see it last month) and I don't really get the ass-madness behind it. Just like everyone has arguments over what style of GM/DMing is best, and whether RP or dungeoncrawling is the "proper" way to play, or what have you, it's just a style of play. If you want to play an "inclusive" (whatever the fuck that means? Non-traditional fantasy types only? "My trans demi-queer warlock makes a move on the racially-ambiguous rogue in a consensual manner") game, go right ahead. Cool! If you want to play a "non-pussified" version (again, what? Is this like some kind of edge-lord game where it's an equivalent of rolling a new character every couple minutes?), go ahead, enjoy yourself.

Everyone has their favorite way to play, and I don't really think tabletops becoming more "popular" is a bad thing. Yet. Who knows, maybe it could get ruined. But I don't see how.

I'd love to hear some reasonable explanation of someone who doesn't have the same opinion as me as to why they disagree.

I don't share your optimistic views on recent development, but I certainly won't discourage you from holding them.

Does it make it okay?

It's D&D it's casual by default.

>pussification of RPGs

>the_tinman_and_the_cyclops.gif

Critical role is cancer. I play with people who enjoy it but I don't really care much about it, and neither should you.

If you have a problem with it, start running more lethal, dungeon-crawling games that don't attract those people. Or just tell them they're not a good fit for the group you want, nothing personal.

>Go fuck yourself with a cactus.

Hello Reddt! And the problem isn't people making cool stuff. It's the hordes of nornies and roasties who aren't making cool stuff, just sharing dried out d&d memes on Facebook and trying to outdo each other on lolzrabdom natural 20 bullshit.

the american video game industry is dying.

or at least, the inability for large american companies to produce games that are not blatant shovelware is becoming more and more apparent.

the only games from an american developer that I have had fun with recently was titanfall two and doom, for the most part we've been getting nothing but shitty open world AC clones and ego shooters for ages and their seems to be very little enjoyment to be had in playing video games these days.

however where the american market has floundered foreign developers have prospered, the japanese have been pulled from their mobile games and pachinkos long enough to produce some high quality video games and even the european devs are beginning to show promise.

that said I can see why many people are worried about the current state of video games when the games we are living with seem so cut and paste compared to foreign examples.

or maybe they only seem better than us because only the best foreign games get localised, IDK

Releases get buggier and buggier to the point the public get sick and the publishers need to put series on "hiatus" aka actual time to develop the fucking things
Horrible consumer tactics like always online single player games, micro-transactions out of the ass, draconian DRM, early access (and the list goes on) are more and more prevalent
The whole console hardware scene is a fucking mess right now

On the good side the market can sustain smaller business catering to more niche audience

2017 so far has been good, no major disappointments, that people didn't see coming anyway
But take a look at 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011 and 2010. Take a look at games before 2007 and games after 2007. Even normalfag dudebro shit like Halo was great before then. 2017 only really seems good because every year in the past decade has been terrible and the consumer has lost at every turn.
What I'm trying to say is that TF2 ruined video games.

>Tabletop will never die as long as the GMs in charge refuse to put up with this kind of bullshit.

Except the rules are literally telling them to.

If DLC is your problem, then that's fair, but make that clear to begin with, rather than calling the whole thing shit and then moving the goalposts when you get called on it.

Why is anything in that picture a problem?

Of course not, but suggesting it's indicative of the downfall of modern gaming is hardly fair, given that you can point to examples at just about any point in gaming and in plenty of other forms of entertainment.

>more trannies shitting up my hobby

normies will make up their mind immediately whether or not they will continue to play but trans mutants will stick around either for the attention or blatant escapism with their horrific snowflakes characters

Male Drow Cleric.

If i wanted to deal with terrible mary sue character concepts then i would play with newcomers who are on the Critical Role Train.

As it is i'll just game with people who actually understand fantasy genres.

>casualization
>pussification

You mean you're fuck ugly and thought you had found some recess to hide in where it wouldn't matter.

It's made the choice of sex meaningless. Now it literally does not matter if you play male of female.
Not even a fucking tiny base stat change.
Wizards are so fucking terrified of being called sexist that they forgo more interesting mechanics in favour of virtue signalling.

This is the difference in quality between a 2006 game and a 2017 game
youtube.com/watch?v=UUxJpDtg0Bs

D&D has always been casual

Gender based stat modifiers aren't 'interesting mechanics'. They're fucking stupid.

I can maybe see the merit if you're in a super realistic RPG, but D&D is a fucking heroic fantasy game. It would seem bizarrely out of place.

Games get buggier because they get more complicated while not allowing dev time to increase in a major way.

A game today is exponentially more complicated to code, test, and debug than it was years ago, and that means more bugs and more mistakes. It's shitty, but it's not entirely the fault of the developers either.

It is a problem, but not for the reasons that user is claiming.

If you support making games more inclusive, then this paragraph is useless. No DM is going to change their mind about quiltbag characters just because you point at this.

If you're against it, this paragraph is only telling you that the company wants to display how cool and progressive they are by telling people what they already knew.

It's either an empty gesture or eye-rolling cringe; either way, it's doing no good for any of the people it's supposed to be targeted toward.

>Now it literally does not matter if you play male of female.
>Not even a fucking tiny base stat change.
This has been a thing since Forgotten Realms - the lore literally states that males and females have equal potential and gender choice poses no attribute modifier.

>implying the end goal of RPGs is profit and popularity
>t. Shekelstein

I don't know if I can complete with you there when the most outrageous examples are games than are exactly the same every year, like ass creed, and should be working better when the exact same game was tested multiples times before

Yes, it is bad. Pic related. I disagree about the "women entering the hobby is bad," but there is a saying in Russia - "Do not enter a monastery with your own code."

You have to adapt and assimilate into the culture rather than the culture adapting to fit you. In this case, culture = fandom = ttrpgs = whatever.

And yes, down the line, it does lead to a decline in product. 3.5 to 5e is a perfect example. 3.5 was huge, but it appealed to the unwashed masses. The people who liked D&D either kept playing AD&D or switched to other systems. WotC and Hasbro saw a loss in profits, because regular people aren't going to autistically buy every book that comes out. 4E was much smaller than 3.5, and 5e is even smaller than that, which goes to show, that even in the long-term, pandering to the masses in a niche hobby fails.

>casualization and pussification


D&D has always been a shitty casual game

>healing magic so you don't have to think about your actions
>damage is just HP removed rather than having players lose skills, stats and abilities when taking damage like losing the ability to sprint and/or moving slower if an opponent cuts your leg but that's too complicated to the 11 year olds who play the game
>armor making you more likely to dodge enemy attacks rather than reducing damage taken from successful enemy attacks

The whole game is just an embarrassment to play, really explains why nerds were getting bullied back in the 80s and 90s for playing it.

What's the point in even fucking wasting the ink to print it on the character sheet? Everyone may as well be androgynous clones.
With different mechanics associated with different genders, the number of different characters you can play has been effectively doubled.

Nah, you're just a moron too scared to have an opinion on the matter.

This, pen and paper RPG's will always be an incredibly robust genre because they are stories and adventures generated by the GM and provided to the players, and because they are made in this way you can't really complain that they're being pussified.

I mean lets be honest here, if wizards made all elves hermaphrodites tomorrow, I can guarantee anyone who played that system and didn't like it could just ignore it, I mean elves aren't even a playable race in my setting because they're proper folklore fey creatures that have no business consorting with humans. and wizard can't exactly come to my house and put a gun to my head for having the wrong kind of fun.

its also why GM's reserve the right to let whoever they want on the table, some tumblrina comes to you and hands you an epic snowflake to end all snowflakes? politely tell them that you do not think their character suits the tone of the campaign your running, its literally that easy, if they want the support of official material then they can go find an adventure league store.

honestly see no threat in SJW boogiemen invading our tabletop safespace because you can always just choose to play with like minded individuals and houserule whatever you don't like, which is not something you have the luxury of doing in a vidya game

Yeah but people have been doing stuff like Ladyknights since 1st edition. Now the rules put it out there that you don't get -4 STR for having tits. They chose "Male Drow Cleric" as a thinly veiled cardboard wall in front of the "Women are not less heroic than men" sign they were GOING to put there before they realized spergs like you would never shut up about something any functional adult can agree is totally fine.

>Glad to see salty grogs mad that they'll be expected to have basic hygiene and social etiquette now that more normies will be hanging with us and playing tabletops.

Except they won't because the normos pirate their shit online while the neckbeard actually buy books and minis and shit. Guess which one the flgs will pander to.

how does your mother feel about your fragile, wasted fucking life?

>armor making you more likely to dodge enemy attacks rather than reducing damage taken from successful enemy attacks
4/10

No? It just removes options when you put a gender on your sheet. Forcing people to be different by taking things away isn't good game design.

>why is it a problem to encourage mentally ill trained to shove their mental illness center stage and disrupt a campaign

D&D is a game about heroic fantasy adventures. Not sexuality. Period.

Dark days ahead, friends.

Oh yeah? Please, tell me a title where:

a - good writing
b - fun combat
c - interesting characters
d - player choice matters
e - can be replayed at least 2-3 times

I can come up with a fairly short list, most of which is going to be older games OR games that mimic older games (Divinity Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Fallout NV, etc.)

It's actually the opposite if Veeky Forums is any indication. Most normies think you'll get immediately arrested if you pirate or think you need to do some real computer hacker shit to do it instead of just downloading a torrent program and finding a website. Meanwhile any time a new game or module comes out the leaked PDFs are on Veeky Forums within the week.

this unironically

Hollow Knight.

>responding to a namefag
Don't.

Nier Automata

>Heroic fantasy has never had sex involved, ever.

Good point.

This is exactly my point. I just don't understand why people are running around with their doomsaying because a few SJWs suddenly want to escape their shitty lives too. It's not like you have to include them, or if you include them, include their stupid character, in your campaign. I've never played any ttrpg with an SJW, and I can't think of a scenario where I would be forced to, unless I was desperate and just went out to a random place to find my RPG fix.

What you said, that the beauty of RPGs is the fact that they're so modifiable or house-ruleable, is accurate in my mind. If you don't like something, don't do it. That simple.

>Divinity Original Sin
>c - interesting characters
>d - player choice matters
Love the game but can't agree with this

>A game today is exponentially more complicated to code, test, and debug than it was years ago, and that means more bugs and more mistakes. It's shitty, but it's not entirely the fault of the developers either.
Arguable. If you're writing game for existing graphical / physical engine the development effort may be about the same regardless whether it's simple 2d sprites or life-like 3d models. Software development, of any kind, is about re-using what's already available. The added effort you need to make should be as small as possible vs the added value you're producing.

/pol/ is the new tumblr
that's just a plot hook/BG hook, you triggered fag

then homebrew a fucking substitute, infact, I'll do it for you

>females of some races tend to be on the weaker side in terms of pure physical might, resulting in a -2 strength mod, however an increased range of motion brought about by a lack of overly bulky muscles results in a +1 bonus to dexterity, and a greater force of will and empathetic ability results in a +1 bonus to charisma, the races effected in this way are

>humans

>elves

>halflings

>tieflings

>all other races possess a lesser degree in sexual dimorphism and as a result are not effected by this rule.

enjoy meaningful gender impact.

/pol/ has always been tumblr. It's two sides of the same coin constantly calling one another the greatest threat to our society, getting everyone else in the middle caught up in their bullshit.

Maybe it's cause I never cared for AAA Gaming but I love the current place gaming as an industry is at. We get at least one great game per month if you look at the indie scene. That coupled with the Foriegn Devs making miracles like Dark Souls and The Witcher series I could see the industry surviving a crash for the AAA Devs pretty well

Veeky Forums, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?
Veeky Forums, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?
Veeky Forums, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?
Veeky Forums, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?
Veeky Forums, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?

True, C is kinda false, but I would say D is true, since it has a... decent dialogue system and you can bypass some stuff.

Literally what? I haven't heard of Hollow Knight, so I'll take a look, but Nier Automata is a jRPG, meaning that while the characters are well-developed, your player choices matter maybe once or twice in the whole game, and you still get the same ending/outcome.

Now, unless you want to tell me that the ultra-conservative Japs decided to buck the trend and make their jRPG more like a cRPG?

Tabletops cannot be casualized, as the game master is the sole decider of the content, difficulty, and rules.

To add to this, the entire genre of gaming was built upon people taking something and making it themselves or putting their own spin on it. If you don't like how "casual" new RPGs are, don't play them. You can run older editions, which people obviously do regularly since we've had 3.PF generals for years now, you can modify or rule zero the existing game as much as you need to, or you could even make your own new game and system. There's nothing stopping anyone from doing this and it's actually encouraged in the games' rules.

I'm actually in a campaign now where we can suffer injury and dismemberment. It makes us think more on our choices and combat, just depends on your DM you nut-sack.

>I am a retarded faggot

Nice projecting.

How does this make gameplay more meaningful?

twiple a
twiple a
twiple a

>what turns one into a bitter, jaded faggot?

Social anxiety and other mental illnesses that prevent you from fitting in with society, and the loneliness and cognitive disconance that results.

>implying this cancer won't spread to other games

Explain how they're wrong, because like it or not this is typically how niche hobbies end up.

>and you still get the same ending/outcome.
If you ever actually play the game, you may be in for a surprise. Don't look it up, just let it happen.

No.

The industry in Video Games is playing as safe as it is content wise and mechanic wise. You cant have blatant sexual bombshells like those korean mmos anymore.

Realism ruins entertainment

No idea. I do know how your mother feels about my eight inch throbber though.