So, who wins in an all-out assault for control of...let's say this universe, in a neutral time period?

If it comes down to heartless vs nids, it's probably a draw. Heartless lack the numbers, firepower and ability to reproduce without a (quickly nommed) human population to threaten hive fleets and have limited ways to destroy biomass, but at the same time unless nids can adapt themselves a keyblade they can't actually kill a heartless pernamently and reduce thier numbers (a problem the entire list has with the only workaround being possestion). This means niether population can wipe out the other and it ends in a stalemate.

Psychic bullshittery plus a mutation to boneswords into bonekeyblades?

>If flood are the ancient version where they could infect time and warp space etc... they win pretty easily
It's a good thing I am ignoring halo lore past Halo Reach. It would be a hard thing reading shit like this.

Keyblades are more than a peculiar shape, you know. They're weapons wrought from light or darkness, fashioned in the image of the original Ki-Blade.
In other words it's magic and tyranids don't have sorcerers.

they have psykers though, and the warp doesnt really follow any clearly defined rules on the limits of what it can and cant do

I thought I was the only one who did this. Thanks for revealing yourself.

I usually just go by the "sure why not" approach to crossovers. Can the force be used to fight daemons and protect from and navigate through the warp? Sure, why not force and power weapons parry lightsabers? Sure why not. Can the hivemind channel psychic energy into biological swords to imitate weapon wrought from light and darkness? Sure why not.

Psykers is just the scifi name for wizards

I hate how they dumbed down the Borg so much.

Any competent spacefaring species would slaughter the nids and the flood. The only reason they are threat is because they infect the homeworlds. Those who have no homeworld, have no need to fear the nids.

I do sorta the same, but mostly because I haven't bothered playing through first level of Halo 4. The UNSC weapon aesthetics annoying me too much already at that point. I'm pretty ambivalent about Spartan IVs though, honestly not bothered if people wanna include them in a game that takes place past Halo 3, at worst they'll look like a bunch of bustas making IIs and III look better anway.

This quite a bit silly given the nature of keyblades. Which are sentiment of weapons that are dependent on a person's soul, and able to choose and reject their owner. They're not just weapons of light and dark, they're an extension of the hearts power, which is the source of everything in Kingdom Hearts. It's like saying all the nids could adapt themselves to have Excalibur and become kings of Brittan.

The nids are a threat because they can strip entire solar system of their resources to fuel what is essentially the universes most unstoppable war economy. First they devour a few uninhabited planets that happen to be in their path to pad their numbers, then they eat your outlying colonies, then they get to work on your core worlds. All the while, they're not just replenishing losses, they are reinforcing their numbers with such absurd efficiency that there is no hope to compete with them, unless you can also convert entire planets into war resources. there are plenty of reasons fear the nids

powerful psykers can reshape reality to their whims, so why not?

They'll be an extension of the hivemind's heart's power.

All hail the Swarmlord! King of Britain!

The Flood, because of one thing and one thing only: they can take control of all living organisms. So imagine the Flood taking controls of hive fleets and starts mass producing their own army or deny a tendril of retrieving/obtaining biomass by simply reanimating the dead and extracting them.

The Heartless since they can only be vanquished by a keyblade.

Oh and I also forgot to add that they can form their own hiveminds as well as taking control without turning the possessed individual into some mindless drone, essentially opening them to every single secrets that certain individual possesses. Now, imagine that it's a Nid hive fleet that got jacked.

Powerman

Ah, yes. Because those who have mastered space and time can't do that.

Dis

If you want to give the hivemind a heart it actually becomes vulnrable to the heartless's world destroying corruption, so they'd better adapt fast before the heartless end up finding the keyhole equivelent and bringing the whole fleet down in 1 move.

This adaption is complicated by the heartless being the most covert and non-threatening faction on the list if the others don't know what they are capable of, so the hive fleet may prioritse other adaptions instead not realising what's happening until it's too late.

How do you explain literally anyone else killing them? Such as Disney/FF characters?

Wouldn't the heartless take over the nids? Heartless would turn everything in the list into corrupted monsters of darkness and send them after each other.

The Cybermen and Borg would likely team up. They have mutually beneficial goals and even methods.

As the last episode with Lore showed that the Borg were 100% up for the idea of becoming even more mechanical than they are right now.

You'd very quickly have the superior Cybermen physical capabilities and manipulation (Everyone forgets that the Cybermen almost always work with social manipulation until they are sure they'll win the physical fight) with borg shielding and energy weapons.

As the person you are replying too I agree, flood in the novels and EU got so out of hand, they can infect any AI with logic, they can infect time and space and warp reality to their will etc.... Its just ridiculous

...how can you infect time and space? I wasn't aware those had biologies.

They don't to my understanding. The physical bodies are destroyed, but the hearts aren't released and the enemy just reforms in the Realm of Darkness. That's why the Heartless have seemingly infinite numbers.

Fuck knows, but its because they end up becoming so smart and can warp reality that they can infect concepts etc...

I believe I read somewhere that at one point, even having knowledge on the flood could auto infect you (never found a source for this but wouldn't shock me)

In the halo universe, there is an 'intelligence' to the universe itself, I.E the universe at its most basic level is based upon though if only partially. The flood can infect this.

How? They are a biological/physical plague that regularly loses to a guy with an assault rifle.

Hard to explain, but the intelligence of the flood isn't in their physical form, it's somehow outside of it and part of the universe. The more flood there are and the more organised they get, the smarter they become.

So a whole planet becoming part of the flood gives them enough 'processing power' to begin fucking around with time and space, but they need to reach that point first.

Master Chief fights a weakened and desiccated flood, not a pure flood strain with Forerunner tech at their disposal.

The Heartless got rekt by a kid with an oversized key, borg got owned by liberals, the cybermen gets rekt by some british guy who does fucking nothing and aliens couldn't even track down one little girl.

...when the fuck did this happen? I thought Halo was at least pretending to be remotely harder sci-fi than star trek.

The heartless win because every single entity of the opposing factions that falls to the heartless becomes a heartless of equal strength to the entity in question, and none of the other factions have access to keyblades or magic.

The heartless also have a space armada that, while perhaps not on par with the borg ships, increases their capabilities immensely.

tyranids have magic
its very stronk

Borg and Cybermen both have 'Do whatever the plot needs' technomagic. If they need to fight the heartless, they'll find a way.

Knowing the cybermen, it will be by going 'We can't kill them...but we can throw them into the void outside of time and space'. Something they've done in the past. Can't respawn if you are not dead.

From what I understand the Flood doesn't really "infect" space and time. It's just that they acquire so much intelligence that they become psychic? and use those powers to effect space and time.

Or something else. I honestly lost fucking track of what the Flood can do after Reach. I liked it when it was just the Flood simply being a disease, not some time-altering elder god.

I'd imagine the Tyranids Shadow of the Warp would somehow effect this magic.

They can't infect space-time itself, but they did "infect" The Domain.
The Domain is some kind of quantum information repository built by the Precursors and used by the Forerunners to store their memories, culture and all kinds of data. They didn't really know how it worked or what it was but they were able to use those functions at least.
As the Flood is a corrupted, mutated form of the Precursors they can use Precursor technology called "neural physics". Neural physics are a bit hard to explain as it blurs the concept between philosophy and science, but it is some kind of "life energy" or whatever, similar perhaps to the Force from Star Wars that permeates all living beings of sufficient intelligence in the universe.
The Precursors learned to manipulate it, building indestructible structures, the Domain and other stuff with it but the way to manipulate it was lost until the Flood appeared.

When the Flood infection reaches a sufficient size they can form planet-sized "Keyminds" that can use all Precursor neural physics-based technology. They blocked access to the Domain which crippled the Forerunner ecumene (empire) and used neural physics structures such as the "star roads" to destroy planets and fleets.
The Halo effect supposedly destroyed everything related to neural physics and almost destroyed the Domain (it's back in Halo 5 apparently, haven't played it though).

I can understand old Halo fans not liking this stuff but I enjoyed the Greg Bear Forerunner trilogy a lot and found almost all of the Flood/Forerunner lore very interesting. The neural physics stuff probably won't be relevant to the series going forwards thus the Flood has been nerfed a lot, leading it to being "killed" by a guy with a gun.
The Flood can accomplish great engineering feats given time, but generally they have to operate with the technology they can assimilate and all the hypertech is gone.

So it's Block Transfer Computation from Dr Who but even stupider.

I wouldn't know, I haven't been into Dr Who for a long time and I've only seen a few seasons.

I imagine it being like writing data into something like dark matter between galaxies or whatever.

>I wouldn't know, I haven't been into Dr Who for a long time and I've only seen a few seasons.

It's old-who stuff. Mathematics manipulating the fundamental underpinnings of reality. They were using it to delay the heat death of the universe indefinitely and the Master used to to create a pocket dimension (Though a rather imperfect one) by putting Adric in a creepy boy harness.

Psykers are sorcerers in the universum. Psykers manipulate warp and the warp is also the source of literally any and all other magical powers. Pretty sure nids could improvise themselves keyblade magic - even more, given how everything is turned up to eleven, you can expect that at some point every little combat unit of nids would have some keyblade equivalent. If heartless wouldn't wipe them out before that point, they're likely done for.

I don't think the Aliens from Alien is even interested in conquest.
They're just doing their thing, which is hunting people.

This. The whole scale is off - tyranids would likely wreck everything else due to rule of cool applied liberally in wh40k and hand-waved "they'll take over everything you have, make it even worse and throw back at you" + regular reality warping warp shenanigans. Others can oppose tyranids because practically every other group in the universe is ALSO cranked-up-to-eleven half-godlike but if they wouldn't start with vastly superior position (and they wouldn't without their very lore being fucked up), none of the other groups in OP image would be able to even muster lasting defense before being flooded and adapted against.

It's not that tyranids are better thought-out or whatever, it's just intricacy of the universe where everything is overpowered in standard and then from among that some things are made to be overpowered in regards to that standard.

Kinda reminds me of the space marines vs halo spartans discussion.

Pic related, spartans vs spess mahrines. Again, when faced with wh40k, most non-Mary Sue setting armies will be absolutely wrecked no matter their gimmick, simply because in wh40k every stronger group is meant to be ridiculously powerful, up to the point of retardation.

I dunno, the cybermen would give them a mighty run for their money. I mean, that's a group that has mastered dimensional travel, nanomachine-based mind-control and has even got time travel.

The Borg, Tyranids and Cybermen all have a very similar basic idea 'They will out-survive you and adapt to anything you can do'. It's just a matter of biological vs technological.

Though the cybermen suffer from 'So, which cybermen?' as they've been shown in many different points in time (It is the nature of the time travel show after all).

You're right but like I've said, tyranids have also a lot of it retardedly cranked up to eleven on top of being galactic-swarms. Dimensional travel would likely allow cybermen to stave off immediate genocide and only till tyranids would start playing with warp shenanigans on their own which also were proven to affect the very fabric of reality - be it to get the same capabilities or coutner them (there's hard limitation on why wh40k doesn't have multidimensional wars handwaved to "no one ever done it" but if cybermen would do it it means that'd make it free-for-all). Nanomachine-based mind-control is also limited by at least token effort of being plausible while tyranids are just "throw anything at us, we'll eat it" to an extent that you couldn't be sure that nanomachines would know how to affect (control) some of the tyranid units whose biology is often quite alien even in comparison with doc Who universum baddies, nor it wouldn't be sure whether tyranids wouldn't be able to take over that nanotechnology, make even more mean, somewhat biological equivalent, then get resistant to it while throwing the mean version back at cybermen.

It's unfair, it's Mary Suish, it's rule of cool taken to pants-on-the-head-retarded extent.

It's Warhammer 40 000.

See, that seems to run mostly on 'They'll win because the writers will favor them'. As I'm not sure they are inherently better.

It's not like Dr Who doesn't have it's own utter bullshit like Block Transfer Computation (Math so good it can warp reality strong enough to create pocket dimensions or stave off the heat death of the universe).

By the same token, Dr Who foes tend to run on 'You cannot beat them in a fight'. It's the nature of the show, that intelligence and outside the box thinking is the source of victory rather than ability to kill stuff.

Mind you, surprised they didn't put Daleks up the top rather than Cybermen. Likely because 'Time War' is a step too far in the bullshit direction.

>See, that seems to run mostly on 'They'll win because the writers will favor them'. As I'm not sure they are inherently better.
You're right and it's not. It's one fo the reasons why WH40K suffers from quite some inconsistencies and retcons in the lore. But it's still what it is - great advantage caused by the fact that tyranids were made with idea of being superpowered, unstoppable (by anything short of comparatively overpowered) Mary Sue force of DOOM while Dr Who villains are conditionally very powerful but meant to be defeated in some way, and written with certain in-universe believability in mind. The scaling of power between Wh40K and nearly any other settings is just very unfairly uneven.

Heartless based darkness only corrupts those who use it. Villains that avoided going ham with dark powers, much less those not using them, are not corruped. See also: Hades who mostly used his own power and Hook who seemed to get away with it by keeping a healthy distance from them and simply giving orders, niether were visably affected by corruption. Even then it's resistable, maleficent only lost control due to having possesed riku screwing with her heart by force.

Against the unwilling they just seperate heart from body the old fashioned way.

Though that brings up the possibility of one side or another tapping into powers they shouldn't...

The mechanics of world corruption/destruction are different but the nature of the hive fleet means that world rules may apply which is much better for the heartless as it gives them a way to take the whole thing out by force.

Here's the thing though, Multiple ways exist in 40k to fight deamons and navigate the warp. Multiple ways exist in Star Wars to fight Lightsabers, or at least did pre-Disney, I don't know what they've done with the universe.
Magic exists in the Kingdom Hearts universe and all it does to the heartless is disperse them.
ONLY the keyblade can kill them.

See, I'm not sure that's really something you can throw out during comparisons. As The Writers favouring them isn't something you can count on.

>Magic exists in the Kingdom Hearts universe
No. Warhammer's warp is the superdimensional space and power that can affect all aspects of reality. Just because most technological races' sorcerers are called psykers doesn't mean they're stereotypical psychics with telepathy + telekinesis. Warp is far more diverse and powerful than that and every one who can access and control it can also control any kinds of magic in existence, most just don't know how or stay away from some of the more corrupting shit. But the moment you do crossover and thus keyblade magic exists in some form, it's something you can get at through warp.

>But the moment you do crossover and thus keyblade magic exists in some form, it's something you can get at through warp.

Well, depends on the setting.

I'd say it couldn't touch shit with Charter Magic stuff in the Old Kingdom series for example. As that's the magic of Law and Structure (It would basically slot in with Free Magic there perfectly though)

Yes and no, I cannot throw it if it's pure rule of cool wank with "and they they've done this super thing cause they're just awesome" but when we go by the qualities of those groups, then you have to accept that tyranids have retardedly manly overpowered qualities, even if all of them stem from the same "overpowered awesome". There's simply no other way to go about it without nerfing some group to fit the level of other group but then the nerfed group isn't really the same as designed. Inherent flaw of comparing vastly different universes build upon different ideas.

Yeah, but if we compare different settings then I assume we allow countermeasures and capabilities available to a group in regards of their own setting. Otherwise we can as well go in opposite direction and say that Tyranids would have no problems with Heartless because there's neither keyblade magic nor any warp-resistant "heartless stuff" in WH40K and then the whole comparison becomes even more of a mess.

When 343 got control of the franchise

The issue there is that basically anything anyone else throws out people go 'The nids would just adapt' even when it's people talking about Cybermen or Borg. Groups who's entire thing is 'They adapt'.

Nids are scary, yes. I don't, however, think they are inherently better than other groups at their own speciality. Doubly so when said other groups have some pretty massive claims to fame. I mean, the Nids haven't really done time travel, dimensional jumping or 'Managing to survive the end of the universe by building ships that can exist outside of time and space itself'.

Oh yeah. Reasonable allowances to allow crossovers to work, rather than X ignores anything Y can do'. Otherwise it's boring and people just rush for an instant-win button.

Like I'd accept St Celestine's sword as an example of something that could kill a D&D demon that can only be killed by a Holy Avenger as it's a blade blessed by the god emperor himself.

I'm going to leave the Heartless out of this.
They're more like warp-beings born from emotion than anything else on this list.

So discounting them, I think the Borg win.
Nids would get assimilated, flood would get wiped out/assimilated, xenomorphs would get assimilated, and those stupid nu-Cybermen would get destroyed.

Slipspace travel, Halo effect, the series has never been any more "hard scifi" than Star Trek.

I did say pretending. It's never been actual hard sci-fi, more that it was at least putting on a mask of it. What with all the gun/machine porn they try to throw out to make it seem harder.

It at least looked the part until Halo 4, at least as far as Humanity was concerned.

>there's neither keyblade magic nor any warp-resistant "heartless stuff" in WH40K
That's my point. There is no way for the Tyrinids to effectively fight against the heartless.
It's not the Tyrinids that are the problem, it's the Heartless. They are designed to be a race that can only be killed in one specific way, and there is no reasonable way for any of the races in OPs pic to obtain that method.

SOB would be a pretty good one for fighting heartless. Faithful, devoted and divinely empowered people with blessed weapons.

I would say that the Swarmlord would probably be the only thing the Nids have that could count for destroying heartless. It's a psychic individual with four psychically attuned swords. It might be able to bullshit its way into making itself a chosen one and have its swords function properly.

The rest of the hive fleet is basically animals, so I don't think they could have the same special snowflake function be widespread. At the same time though, I'm not sure if the heartless would bother with what is essentially animals.

Also, while the Heartless might just respawn over time, that's no different than when Nids fight Daemons.

Being slain by the keyblade would do the same thing then? I guess the only way to stop them is to be in a world without darkness, like the 100 acre wood.

Dr. who humans who controlled a thousand galaxies and use briefcase bombs able to bust planets fought a tooth and nail in a war with the cybermen that only ended after they blew up a galaxy

>CLARA: Who were we fighting?
PORRIDGE: Cybermen. Technologically upgraded warriors. We couldn't win. Sometimes we fought to a draw, but then they'd upgrade themselves, fix their weaknesses and destroy us. It's hard to fight an enemy that uses your armies as spare parts.
CLARA: You beat them, though. Beat them or you wouldn't be here. How?
PORRIDGE: Look up there. That corner of sky? What do you see?
CLARA: Nothing. It's just black. No stars, no nothing.
PORRIDGE: It use to be the Tiberion Spiral Galaxy. A million star systems, a hundred million worlds, a billion trillion people. It's not there any more. No more Tiberion Galaxy. No more Cybermen. It was effective.

Upgrading cybermen.
i.imgur.com/GMNzZS8.mp4

>Activate the Desolator. And it's done.
(The bomb is armed.)
PORRIDGE: It'll blow in about eighty seconds. Easily long enough for the Imperial Flagship to locate me from my identification, warp jump[from outside the galaxy] into orbit, and transmat us to the State Room.

Conclusion: this is a whostomp.

None of that matters. You need ONE specific type of weapon, NOTHING else works, they've tried. It's not that it's made of light, they regenerate from light magic too. It's a specific property of the Keyblade that allows it to kill heartless. If you do not use a keyblade, then any heartless you kill will simply respawn, no matter the method.

>The issue there is that basically anything anyone else throws out people go 'The nids would just adapt' even when it's people talking about Cybermen or Borg. Groups who's entire thing is 'They adapt'.
Yes, but then there's in-setting differences, how well those adapt. Borg and Cybermen are meant to adapt in certain reasonable aspects befitting their settings while in setting of WH40K adaptation of tyranids go far and beyond capabilities of those two groups. That's the problem I already mentioned with how vastly different those settings are and similar problem that was in comparison of Halo' Spartans and Space Marines in (quite interesting either way) convo from >53799274 pic.
On the other hand you cannot really bring capabilities of one group down to that of some other group because at that point you don't really compare those groups anymore, but their in-setting equivalents.

Then how do you explain Goofy slamming things with a shield?

The portrayal of Cybermen in the new series is horribly inconsistent.
At weakest they're slow tincan zombies.
At strongest they're fucking wizards.

This goes back to the reasonable allowances thing. By that logic then Heartless could never defeat undead from The Old Kingdom as the heartless can't enter the river of death or they'd have no defence against being ripped apart by psyker powers as they've only dealt with magic rather than psykers.

Those will respawn latter.
The ones Sora kills will not.
Well in the game both respawn, but story-wise, kills from the keyblade are permanent, kills from any other source are not.

It's the nature of a time travel show. You see them at one point, then you see them tends of thousands of years more advanced. Like how Daleks are rarely the old ones that needed constant power from a generator to keep going.

>Veeky Forums
One.
>/c/ or /v/
>/v/
>/v/
>/c/ or /tv/
>/c/ or /tv/

Fuck dude, if you are posting on Veeky Forums MAKE is Veeky Forums related at least!

How about some Sliver for mtg?
How about iunno... Mind Flayers for D&D. (Visilight, Parai, Kaorti, Bodoks, Standard Shades)
How about Shadowrun's Insect spirits?

I'm not saying any of those EXAMPLES would win, just if you are posting on Veeky Forums. Post some shit we can really talk to.

Tyranids, likely without as much trouble as people would hope they'd have, all for the dumb reasons that WH40K is simply too Mary Sue in capabilities given to different races for any group from more down-to-earth (and almost everything is more down-to-earth when compared to WH) setting to be able to oppose them.

>This goes back to the reasonable allowances thing.
If you say things other than Keyblades can kill them, then Heartless are by far the weakest of the races in OPs picture to the point of irrelevancy, except for the "bosses" which could give even the strongest of the other races a run for their money, but are too few to make up for the weakness of the common heartless.
If you don't say that they are invincible.
This is why I said the Heartless are a problem here . They are either invincible if you treat them like they are in their own universe, or irrelevant if you give them the usual concussions of a crossover.

The Heartless can't actually be hurt unless there's a keyblade nearby. So Heartless.

The Mondasian cybermen were so much cooler in concept than the new series Cybermen.

The Mondasians were actually an interesting sci-fi concept, augmented pseudo-humans adapting to their changing environment. The new cybermen were literally introduced so that the setting could have metal zombies because zombies were in vogue at the time of the episode.

>Borg and Cybermen both have 'Do whatever the plot needs' technomagic
Borg really don't
Cybermen, however, really do.

>Ironic(?) for this user to say because I fucking hate Dr. Who.

goto:

How about for the sake of keeping things simple and not having to keep track of several different types of magic that we just condense everything to one type.

It's not like we can measure which magic is better than the other because, well, it's fucking magic.

How do nids react to nanomachines?
I feel the the borg could fuck their shit up pretty bad.

Mind you I think the Orks could krump all deez gitz.

>Borg really don't

You never saw Voyager. 90% of plots 7 of 9 solved were 'I'm going to say nanomachines until it's solved'.

It's not ironic, it's a good way to approach things. Facts shouldn't be affected by whether you like them or not.

Yeah but everything else was solved with the ridiculously versatile deflector dish.

I hope when the Voyager returned they taught everyone about what you can do with deflector dishes.

No, we settled this in a previous thread: the Flood still needs a thing to have a neural system, and the tyrannids are perfectly capable of just mutating themselves into plants that don't have neutral systems for the Flood to interact with.

>If heartless wouldn't wipe them out before that point, they're likely done for.
That seems to be the Nids MO. Period.