Mfw I realize that Bitcoin is over inflated because people buy it like a stock just to reconvert to cash rather than...

the fact you even have to consider such a thing possible now should already be a red flag, stupid boomer. fiat is a scam. central banking is a literal ponzi scheme. the real value of crypto stems from how garbage the real financial system is. sure, people dont know that yet, but smart money has always known. smart money will also know that other smart and large money will buy in to crypto, not just in case crypto takes over, but to ensure themselves a position within the new currency system if it takes over, while making money in the ride. it is no loss to them, only a loss to you if you don't realize all of this and get in on the fucking crypto train

the easiest way you can tell someone is dumb is that they have this notion of 'the people' waking up to scams or crooked ways of doing things which have existed for countless generations.

>a new currency system will rise up
>the current USD, a global standard and the currency of one of the most economically influential nations on earth is garbage because I say so!

You have to be 18 to post here.

...

Kek mfw I built a big crypto portfolio before I even truly realized it

Most normies are all drugs addicts and dealers now so I predict that will change. Crypto will compliment our degenerate society very well

thats where youre wrong.
bitcoins is popular beciase its literally more secure than dollar and gold

It is garbage. It could be better with decentralization. Giving (((humans))) control of the monetary supply is a major mistake because humans are driven to steal resources at the expense of others.

>crypto will become the default currency in a nation of 300 million

My god, the stupidity. It's almost like it was written by a person with 0 sense. Let me guess, you think credit and loans are a scam too?

>you think credit and loans are a scam too

Not a scam. Just crooked and manipulative. Usury is one of biggest leading factors in suicidal adults.

>more secure than gold
Confirmed for having no idea what he's talking about. Gold literally doesn't depreciate physically. It's also always in heavy demand because of its need in electronics, which are becoming more and more prevalent.

Bitcoin is treated like a stock and not a currency by most people. Just look at this shitty board.

If you're dumb and irresponsible, you tend to ruin yourself. Maybe it's with credit, maybe it's with another thing. What's your point?

gold can be physically confiscated, and who physically carries gold they own except as jewelry?

My point is that loansharking is morally reprehensible and society should strive to destroy this practice that prays on the impulsive nature of people. I wouldn't even call it stupidity in most cases, either. I prefer to call it ignorance. If you're told your whole life that fraternizing with bankers and becoming a debt slave was a good idea by the media, teachers, and your parents, I can't really blame you for falling into the trap.

Ok, underaged confirmed. An easy bait you can put out to tell if someone is still dependent on their parents is by asking if they hate the concept of usury.

I could go on and on about the very important business use of credit and even private use of loans, but you'll experience them in 5 years when you move out.

*steals your hard drive*

Not underaged, but definitely still dependent on my parents. I'll give you that! I thank them everyday for allowing me to live under their roof to accumulate my savings so that I may move out without the need to be tied down by a mortgage or car payment.

I think its a mark of shitty parenting to throw your kid out onto the street thus forcing him to rely on bankers and financing to get him on his feet. I think it will work out for my parents in the end, too, as when I'm more financially sound I can take care of them in their old age.

>he keeps bitcoins on his hdd

Jesus Christ, you really don't know how things work, huh?

>Here you go, sir. $200,000 in cash for this home.
>Here you go, sir. $30,000 in cash for this car.

>oh no, I just had a large emergency that will take a lot of money to resolve. Since I don't have credit, I have to cash in all of my savings and investments and drastically reduce my standard of living while not only losing my savings, but losing the ability to gather large amounts of interest from investing it.
>Yes, I want to open my own business. It'll be one with lots of overhead. Don't worry, I don't need a business loan. I already have 3 million dollars in cash.

You're so dumb.

I don't plan on getting a business loan so its irrelevant.

>Here you go, sir. $200,000 in cash for this home.
>Here you go, sir. $30,000 in cash for this car.

Why would you need to spend 30 grand on a car? Second of all, the idea that its difficult to accumulate 200 grand for a home says a lot about your spending. Like I said, I pay very bills living with my parents on a salary of 40 grand a year. I've been essentially tossing all of my money into my checking accounts, stocks, and crypto in the hopes of purchasing a home. I'm already half way there after a few years of working.

Keep slaving away for bankers lol. How do you think these banks can afford such expensive real estate in London and NY if they're such generous fellas willing to help people who have large emergencies or small businesses? The usury system, what we have now, puts all the risk on the entrepreneur as he has to pay the bank no matter what. When usury was outlawed, banks assumed some of the risk as they would only be paid if the venture was a success.

Holy shit, do you lack the ability to abstractly think? No wonder you work full time at a minimum wage job.

Let me spell it out for you in a really easy example.

>I have $210,000
>if I invest $200,000 at 10% return a year, that's an extra $20,000 in income for myself which then compounds every year after that

And now you
>You have $210,000
>you sink $200,000 to buying a house
>put the other $10,000 in an investment at 10% return a year
>that's an added $1,000 every year to your income

make sense yet, dumb dumb?

>the entrepreneur has to pay the bank no matter what
*declares bankruptcy*

I'm having trouble understanding your point. I can purchase a home without a mortgage and still invest money. These things are not mutually exclusive.

People like you are fucking retarded.

>muh shekels
>muh banks

Line of credit is used by smart people every day to get ahead of fucking retards like you. It's there for you to abuse if you're smart about it.

Not every single venture in the world is successful, no matter what.... What is it, 60% of all restaurants fail within the first year, you really think that the loan that those people took out so that they could afford to open those restaurants should not be paid back because it was a failed venture? If you do, jesus you're even more retarded than I thought you were.

If you purchase a home without a mortgage, you take a huge hit in your cash. With less cash in your savings, you have less ability to make substantial return on investment.

If I'm paying a mortgage, I can still have $200,000 in the bank giving me +$20,000 a year, with compounded interest following after that year.

Let's say you spend that $200,000 on a house without a mortgage. Now you have, what, like only $20,000 left in your savings? What's 10% of 20,000? 2,000. I'll be earning 10x your return on investment every year compounding because I can invest my money while paying off a loan.

If you don't understand what I'm saying after reading this post, it's fair to say you'll be doomed to work your full time wagie job forever and are genuinely under 100 IQ.

usury is a shit concept.
the correlation of time with interest demands infinite growth because borrowing with interest is essentially borrowing from the future.
its the same as going to a casino but instead of paying for your chips upfront you have a tab

I don't know what most of these terms mean to be perfectly honest with you. You're throwing a lot of financing jargon at a guy that basically avoids banking like a plague.

>I'll be earning 10x your return on investment every year compounding because I can invest my money while paying off a loan.

But at the same time you do not necessarily know that you will be paying off that loan. Things happen. You could get gimped by a car on the way to work and rendered unable to work. You could be burdened by medical bills that hinder your ability to pay off said loan. Your investment might not even necessarily generate a return. Stocks crash. Cryptos go out of favor. Businesses fail. I really do not think what you're doing is a good idea. I think you're putting yourself in an extremely vulnerable position.

>it's fair to say you'll be doomed to work your full time wagie job forever and are genuinely under 100 IQ.

That's not the plan, but maybe it will happen. It is what it is. Maybe my IQ really is sub-100. I don't think that's really relevant, anyways. I am not a bright person; I can admit that. But its people like me that I'm concerned about. If you're intelligent enough to game the banking system that's your prerogative. Most people aren't cut from such a superior cloth like yourself. The low-information demographic are the ones that should be most cautious about the crooked manipulative nature of the moneylenders.

>the correlation of time with interest demands infinite growth because borrowing with interest is essentially borrowing from the future.
ok, so?

Casinos are a bad comparison because they have the chances in their favor and you have literally no ability to skillfully compete or succeed consistently as compared to when you have a proven business method that just needs funding.

I'm still wondering how you expect to net yourself 20k a year by throwing 200k into savings? I have not heard of a savings account with interest rates of 10 percent. I'm still confused by that bit

having debt of any kind is stupid, I dont care what retard scam reason you have for it. You owe money to somebody else, you are not independent. Period.

I didn't mean savings account by the word 'savings,' but rather that you the concept of your life savings being invested through different means.

Ok. Wait until you're older. It gets more complicated.

>but rather that you the concept of your life savings being invested through different means.

Okay so you're under the assumption that your investment is full proof. This is wrong, obviously, but, whatever.

what makes you think you cant beat a casino with skill?

actually, ahem *adjusts glasses* he has a valid point. debt can be a useful financial instrument in environments that facilitate safe investment. however for individuals without insurance or safety nets, debt can be extremely risky, and it's often useful to approach ones own finances with the frame of mind that one should never take out loans, because it is simply equivalent to living outside of one's means.

>strive to destroy this practice that prays on the impulsive nature of people

You heard it here. Shut down the crypto exchanges everyone.

When you have a lot saved up, you get the luxury of low risk low reward investments paying you much more money simply because there is more money being put in which is what people do.

ok, then good luck starting up a business with any large amount of starting overhead.

Keyword: Low risk. Risk still exists. Your conclusion boils down to:

>Have 200k

>Take out mortgage to purchase home with a market price of 200k (Hence paying interest on said loan, paying MORE money for your home in the process)

>Instead of paying off the mortgage with your savings of 200k, you dump it into the stock market, a business, or cryptocurrencies under the impression that your 'low risk' investment cannot possibly fail.

I mean, what possibly could go wrong? Stock markets have never failed before, right?

well if a ponzi schemes are illegal so should usury be.

>there's a very small chance the world will end, so your argument means nothing!
lmao, do wear layers of bubble wrap and refuse to drive cars because there is some very small chance you could fall and get an infection from a scrape or get into a car accident?

Pretty my broker would just invest in obscenely safe investments with even less of a payback during times of financial instability nationwide. Because I have a lot of money being invested, I'll still make a lot more money back.

that would be a retarded thing to do, user. if it's a good business, money will come to you.

You can leverage your investments with a mortage. That's what the ((genius)) ITT was trying to explain. But if your interest on the mortage is low, Bond yields are also low. So getting a return needs skill, and you take on risk. People who take mortages to buy crypto take on double risk. If crypto crashes the same time as the housing market you could be in debt a great deal.

The audacity of you fucking retards. You come here sharing tips and analysis of crypto, when it's just a roll of the fucking dice. You're like a sad old booze hound that thinks he's got a great method for winning the coin slots. You all think you're Jordan Belfort. If you weren't £1000 deep in crypto by 2014 you're a fucking victim. If you haven't already lost most of your money, you're going to at one point. Even the photos you post of your "14k portfolio", you're not kidding anyone. Spend 10k, up 4k one day, down 4k the next. This should not be a business and finance thread it should be a help thread for problem gamblers. You're fucking pathetic. You're lazy. You have nothing going in in life. That's why you choose crypto currency. You're all too lazy to invest in real business ventures. Take me for example, a real entrepreneur. I've been buying and selling cars since I was 17. It's paid my bills for 6 years. Just this morning I bought a "spares or repairs" listing for £150. Got it running after a quick reference of the hanes manual and an hour on YouTube. Same car, similar age and millage are selling for £4500 on autotrader. Night just sell it for £4000, for a quick sale. Even if I buy a car that is truly fucked, it still has scrap value, real physical value. What do you have? Nothing. Ive also put the deposit on a car that cost 3300 but will sell for 5000 easily. And all that took was 15 mins looking for a good deal. Last year I used only £8000 to buy my uncle a van and tolls for his landscaping business, for which I'm getting £1200 per month cash for zero effort. No sleepless nights. No spending hours each day following trends (100% pointless task) and now I'm looking to buy a small piece of low grade land for forestry operations. You idiots really have no idea about business or finance. I hope bitcoin crashes to 1k most of you fucking hang yourself. Worthless posers

No, but I wear my seat belt and follow the rules of the road. We take risks everyday but we should also strive to minimize said risks. There's nothing wrong with investing. But when you're investing outside of your means that is where the issue lies.

>Pretty my broker would just invest in obscenely safe investments with even less of a payback during times of financial instability nationwide.

Glad you have so much confidence in your broker friend. Hope it works out for you.

well hopefully it dropping 30% rather sharply purged alot of the fucking normies.

Smart man. I'm also getting involved in the world of flipping.

I agree with you for the most part. I think cryptocurrency does have a place in the future though, and won't be going anywhere. It's 99% shitcoins but some technologies being developed will prove to be valuable.

Bitcoin was a response to a financial meltdown, experienced a brief period where it was used as currency (albeit on the black market) and then was turned into the exact opposite of what it was supposed to be thanks to greed. I still believe in the crypto dream, and look forward to where this ends up going. Meanwhile I'll be maxing my Roth IRA,

>Glad you have so much confidence in your broker friend. Hope it works out for you.
you know that's there are companies that do this for a living because they're good at it, right?

Psssst... that's pretty much what a mutual fund is!

hey, I found a picture of you.

>you know that's there are companies that do this for a living because they're good at it, right?

Yes, that's fine. You can invest in your mutual fund. That's not the issue I have with your argument and it never was.

You really have no idea what you're on about.

Enjoy your car payment, I guess. Gotta have that 30 thousand dollar SUV.

$30,000 is the cost of an average new car.

Enjoy living in poverty conditions and never having enough to invest for your retirement, I guess?

Except you are losing interest to the loan you fucking retard, you are basically investing at a disadvantage since you have to offset the loan interest to break even.

Nah, bitcoin was revolutionary tech that started taking power from central banks and their slaves

>the amount you earn in interest from investing is exactly the same you pay to a loan every month for some reason
>interest earned on your investment doesn't compound making your 20,000 at 5% each year into 21,000, then 22,050, then 23,152.5, then 24,310

My oh my. You have no clue what you're saying.

Bitcoin is over inflated because rich people are using it to hide their money from the irs you stupid fuck

>rich people using bitcoin to hide their money
good joke

>countless generations

Do you want me to tell you how I know you're completely illiterate regarding the international money system?

Look up bretton woods and the petrodollar agreement my brainlet friend.

the petrodollar agreement created a system of fiat currency more stable than bitcoin will ever be

What is forex?

A term you're not well versed in.

People in their respective countries actually use the currency of their country as a currency and it's valued as such

Bitcoin is literally being held as a stock to be then redeemed.

Who cares, even if the arabs keep playing ball and don't start selling oil in yuan, renewable energies will kill the petrodollar system in a matter of years.

Good luck with your dollar bags retard.

Only because we're forced to. The government fucking with the free market as usual