Countless soldiers, of both genders, drawn from hundreds of thousands of diverse worlds

>Countless soldiers, of both genders, drawn from hundreds of thousands of diverse worlds

>Literally all European men

because they actually get things done

It's marketed primarily towards - wait for it - European or Euro descended men.

GW is a company selling products to a target market that, like all target markets, prefers to buy stuff it can relate to and connect with. Women and minority races are not that target market, and GW is not a progressive social initiative.

If your beef is with the Capitalist system, that's one thing, but even then you can't justifiably blame a company for the sins of the system it works in. This whole criticism is shallow even by Marxist standards. Go home, read some David Harvey, and come back with a thicker skin and less thick skull you pedantic shallow self-proclaimed social reformer.

Tallarns are Arabic, you fucking muppet.

You're flattering the Vostroyan and insulting the Tallern.

But I suppose you meant you want subsaharan africans. Tough noogies, they don't buy overpriced armymen toys.

It's almost as if the company that made it, made it in the 80's before anyone gave a shit, and was based in Europe and therefore only really had Europeans as a mental frame of reference

You fucking troglodyte

Fortunately, there is an easy solution. Make up your own dudes who are not European men. The Celestial Lions are a fan favorite despite constantly getting shat on by the IQ. I see no reason you couldn't have a batallion of Zulu-esque Stormtroopers.

Um

Are you ok

Anyway idk why they would call them diverse in the lore and then not like show them that way. It suppresses immersion

Anyway I'm sorry I triggered you I didn't realise NEETgate was still going on

>It's marketed primarily towards - wait for it - European or Euro descended men.

Not the OP poster, but fuck me this is a poor argument.

I'm a white man and I can relate and connect to people from pretty much anywhere that look like pretty much anything, because I'm not a complete backbirth or a sociopath.

Portraying the world as 100% white dudes is never going to make me more invested in something because the race or gender of the characters involved is something I do not give a single shit about. It may, however, turn me away, as it fucks with verisimilitude if everyone is clearly custom made to appeal to me on an aesthetic level, making the world of the narrative more artificial and less believable.

>Anyway idk why they would call them diverse in the lore and then not like show them that way. It suppresses immersion

It sells better. People like to know that the world is believable, and thus not exclusively people like them, but they don't want to be exposed to it. Its like the average suburban wants to know that quaint natives live in the undisturbed rainforest, but God forbid one moves in next door.

>I'm a white man and I can relate and connect to people from pretty much anywhere that look like pretty much anything, because I'm not a complete backbirth or a sociopath.

Marketing isn't a conscious thing that affects individuals with their full awareness, its a subconscious trend across broad markets. Take a marketing class, advertising is shady as fuck, preys on our worst subconscious traits, and no one likes to believe it works on them, but the data of nearly 100 years of systematic scientific shows that it very much does.

As an arab descendant, I play with Tallarns, so what are you talking about?

>russians
>germans
>arabs
>americans
>french
>drug-riddles slaves
this was progressive by 80s standards, complete with token black guy the salamanders

No, I'm a white dude who is into this stuff enough to be sitting here reading the 8th Edition fluff section end-to-end, taking pictures of it and posting them on tg

And then I get to page 72 and I see something that is obviously dumb so I comment on it.

The weird knee jerk reaction to any mention of other races in the hobby is so fucking sad and predictable. It seems like people who are actually into this lore want some realism but then the sjw inquisition has to show up and defend the large corporation against the scary social liberals

Shit is old and tired

All these replies lol

If it bothers you so much get the fuck out and don't come back.

No, sorry

Lonely insecure REEEEEEE type pol trash aren't the only people on the internet

Catachan art has black guys, and so did those red shoulder guys from that piece in the 3rd codex I think

the "flattering the vostroyan" reply was a good piggyback troll at those black-arsed russians.

So how any 40k armies have you painted as non-white, user? Pics with timestamp please, or admit you're a virtue signalling knob-end.

I'm so fucking sick of this culture war that insists everything that whites have needs to cater for non-whites, and everything non-whites have can't be shared with whites because muh cultural appropriation.

There is nothing stopping anyone from painting their wardollies whatever race they want. That includes you.

And as far as "why are they all white males", well, white males are the soldier archetype. No other race in history is as well-versed and lethal in combat, strategy and logistics as white males. So it stands to reason that after millennia of unrelenting conflict, they would be at the top of the pile.

>the sjw inquisition has to show up and defend the large corporation

Do you know what an SJW is?

Anyways, I'd argue sjws/social liberals unable to deal with the way corporations do marketing and insisting on making social commentary like this is far more old and tired. It's a variant on the "why aren't there female space marines" argument, the answer here implied to be the racism of rich white men as sexism is the implied answer in the female space marines.

I have to deal with leftism too much in real life to just let it pass unchallenged in my hobby.

I know the principles these marketing techniques are based on.

But for real, seeing a setting that is going out of its way to appeal to me in a way like this will only ever turn me away, because it breaks down my ability to believe in the setting being portrayed and not see it as contrivance.

It's the reason the GitS movie failed spectacularly despite having huge star power. It wasn't because people opposed the film morally, it was because people saw that ScarJo was apparently playing a Japanese secret agent in a Japanese police force in Japan, and thought "That doesn't make any sense, it breaks my suspension of disbelief, I can see the lines of contrivance where marketing has meddled in this project and I'm reminded of it whenever I'm shown this character, I'll pass."

European men have actually conquered a world before

Would it bother you if there were a sudden influx of non-European characters? You're clearly bothered by something, but I'm not sure what.

I think it'd be fair to be bothered by this sort of complaint if it were paired with typical third-wave-feminism claims of racism on the part of the creator, but that's not what OP is saying. I think it's fair to criticize a company that's trying to pander to its primary demographic in a way that makes its product more shallow. And it's possible to do that without claiming that GW is full of a bunch of evil racists. Just because this sort of criticism usually comes along with that kind of slander, doesn't mean that's what OP is saying.

Holy shit what

Have you ever heard of Genghis fucking Khan

Imagine living in a world where literally any discussion of race is 'social commentary'

Literally how do you function in real life

>"why aren't there female space marines"

There's a good thematic reason for that though.

Space Marines are supposed to invoke imagery of old knightly orders and monastic brotherhoods. Girls would be super out of place in that. Keep Marines male only isn't really a marketing thing - in fact, in the current climate, GW could probably make some strong sales by introducing femMarines.

I'm pretty sure GitS failed because of the half-assed characterization and failure to adequately hit the same plot points as the original, not because of race.

>But for real, seeing a setting that is going out of its way to appeal to me in a way like this will only ever turn me away, because it breaks down my ability to believe in the setting being portrayed and not see it as contrivance.

That's an entirely fair argument and I get that. I'd argue though that in 40k you are very much the exception. The data pretty much shows this, 40k is successful with its current marketing strategy.

>It's the reason the GitS movie failed spectacularly despite having huge star power.

It's not a universally valid marketing strategy, but if it isn't broke yet don't fix it.

This is a fair argument, I disagree but I get where you're coming from here.

>how do you function in real life

By hiding my political, social, and religious views, and being endlessly paranoid that if I say the wrong thing I'll be ostracized by basically everyone I know. I'm 23 and live in a college town, life is 80% social commentary on race, gender, and how evil Trump is, and 20% alcohol.

There are definitely those that claim casting ScarJo was racist, but I agree with you, I think there are other ways to criticize that choice without piggybacking on PC outrage culture. I think it's fair to be bothered by something like that. Whitewashing is typically criticized not because it's racist, but because it's unnecessary and unwanted. Making your main character white in a contrived way may grant you marketing points, but it's at the cost of any sort of artistic vision, and at pushing away people who would normally relate to the character strongest.

>white males are the soldier archetype

This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen written down.

Fuck you and people like you.

Stop trying to politicize entertainment. Stop trying to passive-aggressively enforce diversity quotas on creators. Stop trying to shunt your retarded worldview in every avenue of life.

>tfw as a West Virginian, the closest thing to discussions of race we ever get is:
-"Did you know he was Mexican?"
-"So?"
-"Thought it was interesting."
-"Meh, I don't really give a shit on way or another."

Depending on source, Steel Legion are mostly of Asian descent these days.

I mean, okay. Good for you I guess.

It was a rhetorical question though, I mostly just pity you

>I'm pretty sure GitS failed because of the half-assed characterization and failure to adequately hit the same plot points as the original, not because of race.

The lowest common denominator doesn't care about any of this.

This is more of a factor of the fact that GW is mandating all artwork match up with available models. They can't show us a picture of south-american amazon women riding dinosaurs or some polynesian genderqueer cyborg ninjas, because they don't have models that represent those things.

That said, even as far as all being European men goes, you're wrong. Talleran Desert Raiders are middle-eastern inspired, and that picture of a Steel Legion soldier could easily be a woman under that gear.

The models in the guard range could certainly stand to have an overhaul, but we barely get any focus on these guys aside from Cadians anyway, so get in line.

Diverse doesn't mean what you think it means.

>reading too far into it.

>The data pretty much shows this, 40k is successful with its current marketing strategy.

As if there were any data on what sales would be like otherwise? And besides, even if you are right, just because a choice makes something more profitable, doesn't mean it's inherently the right choice. Sure, it means you can't claim it's some evil agenda, but you can claim it's a less enjoyable for the decision. Any given horror movie might sell better if you added a big titty protagonist to put in all the trailers, but those aren't typically the movies that are remembered as classics.

See, this guy gets what I've been saying, but much shorter and to the point.

There are times when I envy the simplicity of hillbilly life.

You implied I was the one turning every conversation on race into social commentary, I pointed out that no, the world I live in is almost exclusively social commentary. You turned it into an ad hominem, I defended myself, and now you're implying... I don't even know, what are you implying anymore? Or are you just being patronizing?

Everything is political home slice. Your opinions about entertainment are just as political as anybody else's.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything, unless someone is forcing you to be so angry and fragile about this shit.

And yet they do care enough about race to say that a white lead actress is the main reason a mediocre movie failed?

40K is an industrialized setting.

It's literally true. Sit down and think about it. White males look more fitting in a helmet, vest, and rifle than a person of any other race.

My point is that having a conversation that involves skin colour in any way is not 'social commentary', I feel bad for you living in such a weird state where you're constantly forced to hide your opinions about race, and I don't actually give a shit about how much your college buddies making fun of your retarded president bothers you. None of that is within the scope of the thread, it's your own creepy political thing you've got going on.

Hmm, I always thought they would be Germanic, but I can totally see Chinese civil war, or china in general.
These guys still favorite Asian-themed guard.

Jinghiz and Ogedai were raiders, slaughtering peasants and moving on, not engaging in battles. Please point out which wars they won.

You clearly don't read much. Go on, name the race/culture that has produced more successful soldiers and successfully prosecuted more wars than European-derived whites.

>Everything is political

He said WHOLE world.

No, people like you try to MAKE everything political. Your statement proves my point. Normal people are perfectly capable of drawing a distinction between the political arena and the rest of life.

Didn't the Gurkhas kick the shit outta white males in every engagement? And those are manlet browns

>My point is that having a conversation that involves skin colour in any way is not 'social commentary'

And I'm glad you live in the land of milk and honey where this is the case, but if you're going to act like that in the real world don't be surprised when people from the real world don't return the ignorance.

The topic of this thread is about the sociology of race, whether the OP's comment about race in a popular product in a socially contentious time intended it to be or not, and so the conversation about whether attitudes towards the topic are normal or weird are entirely relevant.

'Normal people' have a pretty fucking reductive and naive worldview then, that's too bad

I live in the same world you do. I'm just, I dunno, less neurotically obsessed with the amount of melanin in a given person's skin.

I get to walk around on the same planet you do, I just don't have to entertain all this paranoia and defensiveness that you do.

>It's not a universally valid marketing strategy, but if it isn't broke yet don't fix it.

I would say it is actually breaking, for the same basic reasons that Disney's core marketing strategy eventually collapsed toward the end of their Renaissance period.

Eventually, audiences could no longer believe in the worlds they were selling. Reality and zeitgeist were too far removed from it. All creative media walks this tightrope, where with every product you are essentially asking your audience: "Can you still believe in this?" Eventually, they can't anymore, and media changes.

It's not just to do with race and such. We've seen an incredible shift in how media presents morality over the last several decades, and it's happened because the public understanding of morality has changed. Similarly, the public's attitude to how race is distributed in a world they can believe in has changed.

And the more connected the world becomes the more it will change.

German style equipment does not mean the people in it has to be german. During WW2 infact, some of the sides in the Chinese Civil War were supplied with German equipment, other sides with American.

It was a clusterfuck

The Gurkhas have a fine reputation when deployed and supported in accordance with their skillset (infiltration and close assault).

The same can be said about the Indian troops who fought in North Africa in WW2- not many people know about them.

The same can be said of many other Colonial troops (Maori, Sikhs, Jats etc.), however, these troops were given the ability to perform well wen incorporated as small elements within a white-majority military supported by white industrial production and logistics.

White soldiers have been kicking the shit out of the rest of the planet for two and a half thousand years. They are humanity's alpha-soldiers.
Anyone who claims otherwise is a deluded idiot or a politically-correct leftist drone.

"Politics
noun
The activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power."

Tell me then, oh-so-wise polisci freshman: How is, say, a landscape painting political? A family picnicing in the park? A game of toy soldiers nerds play on their spare time?

I mean -really- relevant, in the sense that you could tell me while standing on one foot.

Of course, you're on a moral crusade. Your ideology is the basis of your entire self-worth. For -you-, everything has got to be political.

>Please point out which wars they won.

You realize they carved out an entire empire, right? Pretty much all of Eurasia, most of China and large swathes of Europe were all under their control during the Pax Mongolica.

You think they did this without winning wars?

>I get to walk around on the same planet you do, I just don't have to entertain all this paranoia and defensiveness that you do.

Everyone is paranoid and defensive, either that they'll be gang raped for supporting the president, or that the president is going to gas them. If you aren't one of the two you either don't live in this world (actually come to think of it do you not live in America? If not, your cavalier attitude towards race makes *way* more sense) or you are so utterly blind to what's been going on these last few years you might as well have physically stuck your head into a box of sand.

They care about being able to believe in what they're seeing.

Give any man a gun and he can kill a guy with a spear

Or - again - it's you.

I guess we'll just have to leave it there. I'll leave it to you to deal with the next outbreak of social commentary, I'm sure you'll stay vigilant.

>race == melanin
Not this shit again. If you bleached every nigger in the world they'd still commit a disproportionate amount of crime and have a 2-digit average IQ.

>pol

If you can't reason your way around why that might be you're truly far gone.

>America's problems apply to the rest of the world!

lel

Um,

What landscape is it? A real one or imagined one? If real, who lives there? If not, what does it resemble? How did the artist's ideas about how landscapes look get influenced by their upbringing and education?

A picnic? What are they eating? Is it organic? GMO? Does it have high fructose corn syrup? Factory farmed meat? Are they using plastic cutlery from China? Are they in a government owned park or a private one?

You don't have to think about the world around you if you don't want but that doesn't mean everything we do isn't on some level related to the system we live in.

>tfw back in the 90s-early 00s that was more or less the way Washingtonians treated discussions of race, and nowadays it's a "social commentary" or whatever.

Keep thinking it's an American problem, boyo, maybe it'll make a good conversation piece when your new state-mandated Somali neighbours get shipped in.

>White soldiers have been kicking the shit out of the rest of the planet for two and a half thousand years.

Except when they were getting fucked by Arabs, or by Mongols.

White Europeans being the best at murder is actually a pretty new thing.

I know right

If it wasn't for all these state mandated niggers in your neighbourhood you'd finally be able to get ahead in life

It's their fault

For every alt right fuck trying to slap a new coat of pseudoscience on their racism and bigotry, there is always another fuck who helps to undermine their own fucking argument when they stop reciting the hip new lines, and just let's their retardation flow freely.
God bless every one of them!

Only the models, bro. Yeh, I know it sucks, but that's a classic piece of art and is meant to highlight the clothing styles of the armies, not the races.

Also, it's a strange thing, but for whatever reason GW historically has had their Catholic space Nazis decidedly white and European. Weird, right?

Because white men have consistently proven better at mass warfare of the sort the Imperium needs than any other race of people, ever.

...

I've always thought the IG range would be really awesome if they were treated like XCOM soldiers, with the ability to customize soldier's race, gender, and outfit to match Your Regiment or just to demonstrate the full range and breadth of humanity governed under the Imperium. You could have "vanilla Guard" (read: Cadians) and then generic upgrade kits for feral worlders, hive worlders, penal legionnaires, etc.

But casting is expensive, so this'll probably never happen.

They were a nomadic raiding people with a wide range of terrain, yes. But they did not engage in pitched battles or wars, nor was the colonisation of land or establishment of a formal empire their goal. Rather, they attacked and pillaged other nations and states. They were very good at what they did, which was basically being thieves on horseback.

>Give any man a gun and he can kill a guy with a spear

You're missing the point I'm making- tactics ("Give any man a gun and he can kill a guy with a spear") is a small part of it. A larger part is strategy (putting him where he can use the gun) and logistics (giving him the gun and ammo in the first place).

No other race of people has been as successful at the arts of war as whites. It's why the enemies of the whites have to attack them in other ways (socio-cultural warfare, cultural infiltration and indoctrination, political and economic manipulation, feminism and 'social justice').

Everything is related to everything, because nothing exists in a vacuum. That does not mean that if a given family uses plastic cutlery on a picnic, it says something deep or worth discussing about their outlook, international relations or the environment.

Sure, you can try to -make- a very petty point of it. See, some people have pet issues. They go around to every picnic in the park, pointing fingers and sniggering. "Why aren't YOU using biodegradable plastic? Why are -you- painting a European cathedral? Why not an African hut?"

Most of the time, it has to do with a deep seated need to feel important. To feel like you're -accomplishing- something in your safe, sterile, comfortable modern life where nobody has any -real- problems, so problems are invented, packaged and sold.

We call these people assholes.

She's a fucking robot.

I think you're mistaking jews for whites at the bottom there buddy.

Then again you can look at people who vigorously oppose any contemplation of the world around them because that kind of thinking makes them angry and frustrated

We call those people retards.

Lot of the art was black and white and the artists just didn't know how to do black faces
Also many of that era came from an art background of games of crusaders vs saracens
That's why orcs/orks and goblins often have the crescent moon and in the early days they straight ripped off Islamic style multi tier penant banners

>more /pol/-jihadist shit
Don't you douchebags have better things to do?
Like fuck your siblings and salute portraits of Hitler?

>everyone who expresses opinions i dislike is /pol/
When you go out in public and see someone wearing a trump hat do you sperg out and scream "THAT GUY IS /POL/ SOMEONE CALL THE COPS IT'S FUCKING /POL/ OH SAVE ME SKREEEEEEEE"?

...

>STOP POSTING FACTS
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Sorry to hurt your little egalitarianism bubble there buddy. Hey, at least you're generating enough salt to power a riptide.

They're your models, paint them however you want. People seem to forget that this is a hobby that's built on the back of player creation.

Faggot. You don't even deserve a reply for this weak bait but you're getting them.

No, but when he starts yapping about the white master race, I will happily call him an asshole. Just like we're all doing right now.

Is this the part where you start playing the victim card, or will that be later?

Of course, if someone disagrees with you, or isn't on a crusade, they must just be -stupid-. Clearly they are putting their head in the sand if they don't want to talk about the all important problems -you- care about. Why can't they -see- how -incredibly important- it is that your food is organic and GMO-free? If only we could change the culture by raising the issue at every possible opportunity, no matter how banal the connection, everyone would be more like -you-, right?

People like you try to inject politics into everything because it gives you an opportunity to preach or feel superior. And then, when someone calls you out on your bullshit, it's all innocence. "I'm just trying to get people to think!"

Passive-aggressiveness to the core.

Inbred-as-fuck race realist shit isn't 'opinions people don't like', it's bottom tier trash science used to manipulate meth huffing unemployed idiots and socially isolated young men on the internet

I mean if i see a guy with a maga hat on I think that guy's a trump supporter but if I see him getting all pol professor about the glorious white race and cultural Marxism and shit then yes I do correctly diagnose them as a credulous idiot.

Who's mentioned "WHITE PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR IN EVERYTHING EVER TO BE DONE AND MUH ARYAN GENES"? All people here have said is that whites have generally been dominant in the art of warfare. Nice try though.

Last I checked the Arabs have been getting slaughtered by whites in stand-up fights for centuries. It's why they now engage in asymmetrical warfare- it's all they have left.

Hell, even the Spaniards beat the shit out of the Muslims when they finally got sick of their shit.

>muh mongols
What sort of empire and world reach do the Mongols have today? How does that compare with whites?

>best at murder is a new thing
Once again, it's about more than just individual combat skills. It's about tactics, strategy, logistics and manufacturing. From the ancient Greeks and Romans to the modern day, the entire planet is terrified of white military capacity.

>racism and bigotry
I prefer 'in-group preference', to strip your (((culturally-mandated))) pseudoscience concepts of their boogeyman connotations.

>blacks are criminals because white culture makes them that way
So how does that explain the massive rates of violence and rape in black communities not run by whites? Look at South Africa, Papua New Guinea, South Sudan or Nigeria.

Do you have any proof that it's wrong? Or are you going around calling professionally done scientific studies "inbred meth huffing inbred redneck incest inbred inbred inbred" when the study was literally done by a pair of chinks?

If you think that vehemently of it then go and prove its wrong. Prove that there isn't more nervous system and skull shape variation between races than there is melanin variation.

I'm not being passive aggressive, I'm straight up calling you retarded.

Again, everything you're doing here is just as much a 'crusade' as anything I've said. There's no neutral apolitical space in human culture.

And yeah if you looked at the picnic example and thought your 'person going around criticising people's forks' analogy made any sense then yeah I'm sorry I do think you're dumb.

>No other race of people has been as successful at the arts of war as whites. It's why the enemies of the whites have to attack them in other ways (socio-cultural warfare, cultural infiltration and indoctrination, political and economic manipulation, feminism and 'social justice').

>whites are the dumb, violent niggers of the world stage
Really makes you think.

Oh snap I found his trigger word

It's something to do with how closely related his parents are

>Jews
>good at war
You can be proud that your nation beat off a bunch of sand niggers with world war 2 gear in 1967, but for all of history you've either been a conquered people or a recently freed people. If the west wasn't supporting your nation it'd have never existed.

Side note: 70 AD best year of my life.

I'm just pointing out that you can't really call something as being done by an incestuous redneck when it wasn't even done by white people. But cry harder I guess.

Also, still haven't proved anything wrong. Here, have some more.

You can believe that if you want. Good, you think I'm retarded, I think you're an asshole. Now we're arguing more honestly.

Here's a thought: have you considered that the idea that there are no neutral spaces stems from a utopian, all-or-nothing ideology that doesn't -allow- for anything to be neutral? In other words, there is no neutrality because you are either with us, or against us.

There's a reason tyrants despots encroach the reach of the prevailing political ideology into all entertainment and family life. Because for them, too, there IS NO middle ground.

> This is the state of Leftist Memery

Sad. Low Energy.

Jews are good at cultural warfare and manipulation, even moreso than whites. Whites are still objectively better at physical warfare. Also note that a large majority of the feminist movement as well as the political social justice movements were jewish.

The left, everyone. Unable to cope with anyone disagreeing with them, and just as willing to fall back on "hurr durr white racists are incestuous Nazis" as white racists are to fall back on "hurr durr them criminal niggers need to be segregated".

Fucking hypocrites.

Preach it brother.