What is wrong with Pathfinder players?

One of these days I'm going to run a all-fighter, all-white, all-male, all-brown-haired group and it will be great.

Parties where everyone is the same class turn out surprisingly well IME.

>that hyperbolically excessive defensiveness

Please, by all means, tell us about your character, user. I'm sure she's very creative.

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

We're waiting with bated breath, user. Don't deny the world your creativity!

Pretty much this, except you forget the part where so many people in the club are used to managing the current bylaws and fuckups that they simply know how to navigate the system and get it to do what they want for the most part, and some people even find some charm with the club's general screwiness.

Going to another club and having to relearn all the hangups, the meta, the community... The investment might pay off in the long run, but short-term having fun it just seems like a slog, especially if the current club is anything to judge by. Not to mention that everyone else is always saying their club is better, so there's really no way to tell who's right until Joseph Smith comes in with his DMG made of solid gold and preaches about an otherwise decent club with a screwy development history that doesn't seem real, but is supposed to be utterly believed and to be honest I've completely lost what the subject matter was.

Also GURPS is probably Buddhism or Taoism or something.

Problem is that all those options (esp. races) mean they have to try harder and harder to differentiate themselves from each other. Case in point: FIRST fucking Pathfinder campaign I ran, out of six players only one played a core race, and only one played a core class. All of them wanted 3rd party bullshit which I nixed. I did allow some classes and shit that I shouldn't have. The SRD is a blessing but a fucking curse at the same time. They are incredibly vindictive about power curves and similar shit, will laugh at your build that you try to put together for consistency's sake and suggest you multiclass into eight different shit classes. Which is necessary for the builds, don't get me wrong.

I like 3.5. Pathfinder is okay. The system does produce the players, but holy shit does that go overboard with Pathfinder.

The gurps people are the accountants who exist outside of all laws due to legal loopholes.

No, they're not entirely outside of all laws, they just have to observe a couple different ones at any given time, as wells as the core mechanic and honestly bringing religion and morality into the mix was a bad idea because now the whole thing just seems so subjective that none of it really matters unless you're a good person and a good player just trying to have fun and relax in those momengs between the rest of your life happening.

>what's the problem of this group of players all dedicated to one of the worst d20 systems ever conceived that is 3.5 d&d with a ton of unneeded stuff thrown ontop of it full of balance and gameplay problems and massive power creep made by people explicitly devoted to preserving all the flaws and issues of 3.5e because that adds to the experience and making new ones just makes that experience better so players can play anthropomorphic fox girls that are both supported by and officially canon by the developer's standards which includes harshly shutting down and criticizing anyone who criticizes their system or makes suggestions on fixing issues because fixing issues wouldn't be true to the spirit of 3.5e or the spirit of releasing 5,000 supplements with very similar content and power creep and lack of balance or testing at full price each?

Here, have this post that I saved from a random 5e general thread. I'm certain that it's indicative of the whole community

>a shitpost vs thought out and very lengthy character backgrounds for lesbian kitsune cannibal ninjas

Which one is more autistic, user

I don't particularly care, truth be told. I'm just interested in which one is more indicative of the community.

I don't disagree with you, but your alternative to "give money to Paizo for a shitty game" is literally "give money to WotC for a shitty game." You're aware that there are other options, right?

Yeah, I have something similar in my homebrew setting - there's an order of monks who are "sacred cannibals" because their immunity to poison and disease allows them to get rid of a particular phyrexian black oil-esque contagion that is otherwise extremely virulent.

>phyrexian black oil-esque contagion
Man I hate how nuPhyrexia made kids think glistening oil is Phazon.

It's always been horribly toxic. Mutating, no, but being a biohazard is not new at all.

GURPS is love, GURPS is life

>"give money to Paizo for a shitty game" is literally "give money to WotC for a shitty game."

WotC and D&D aren't perfect but DND5e is infinitely superior to Pathfinder. They're not even remotely comparable.

I'd rather pay for a few meaty supplements for an enjoyable system with flaws than for a million barebones supplements for a broken system that just keeps rotting and bloating.

Paizo's run by a bunch of politician-tier liars that are, somehow, at the end of the day, also morons.

>"We're going to release an updated, fixed version of 3.5!"
>"Actually, what we meant is that we're going to reinforce the existing balance, as-is."
>"Actually, what we meant was that we were going to be incredibly biased against classes we don't like, and exclude or gimp pretty much any non-core mechanic that the majority has ever expressed a displeasure towards in favor of ivory tower design where full casting progression is literally the only indicator of a good class."

The warlock, for example, was never the best class; if I remember right, even a really well-built warlock was a very high tier-three/very low tier two, simply because of the amount of utility having a bunch of decently high level invocations allowed it. They stripped that out, gave it access to nothing but cantrips and, if I'm remembering right, lowered the total number of damage dice it gets for eldritch blast. Just as an example.

I don't ever plan on using it, but I still refuse to look at their version of psionics and the tome of battle.

Very well then, here is what my next character will be:

My next character is an animated dick. But not just any peasant's dicks, but a DRAGON DICK. An ancient dragon got into a battle with an ancient knight, and the knight managed to cut the Dragon's dick off with his sword. The knight won the battle, but also died due to his wounds shortly thereafter. The knight swore an oath to never again allow any part of the dragon's soul to ever corrupt the lands. So the knight's soul entered the dragon's still-squirming dick and it magically came to life!

The dragon dick now bounces and slithers around the realm seeking to destroy all other dragons it encounters. It has lots of magic and a natural bludgeoning attack.

My character's name is Dick the Daring.

Their psionics are just spellcasting with spells that scale with level and different components

They don't have a Tome of Battle, PF Tome of Battle is a third party supplement that is a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of stuff Paizo releases.

They're also half-truthers too, like how they constantly promise and keep promising huge class variety and versatility, yet you can count the number of useful classes and archetypes on one hand.

I remember the rant a Paizo dev game when someone criticized them for making ranged weapons too weak, which they sure as shit are, and compared Paizo's statement that reloading a crossbow couldn't be fast because it'd be unrealistic to how insane Paizo mages can be with the very easy powergame methods. Said Paizo dev mostly just mocked the guy and acted like a bratty shithead while talking about how powerful magic was and how it's supposed to be more powerful than anything physical ranged weapons can do.

If you're a crossbow lover, enjoy hitting for a max of 10-12 damage at level 10 once a turn when everyone else is hittting for 35-50 damage multiple times a turn.

The fucked part about their ""psionics""" being vancian is that monsters used a point based system for it.

d20's tend to cause cancer, which in turn weakens the mind and soul of a man, turning him into a faggot.

Warlock never got anything powerful enough to keep it T2. It had bullshit good low level tricks (swarms, anyone?) but nothing that scaled. It was a solid, and nearly impossible to fuck up, T3.

And pathfinder's got a "psionics" system that's just retarded fullcasting with a coat of paint, but the third-party publisher Dreamscarred Press did Ultimate Psionics and Path of War, which are both 100% gold.

>Dick the Daring.
God dammit user.

Go play Gurps, Bazingafag.

>Not Chong the Chode.

How's your chemo going user?

>WotC and D&D aren't perfect
Well my friend, have you perhaps considered literally any other RPG on the market?

He's scared. It's hard for losers to leave their safe spaces.

>d20's tend to cause cancer
EXCEPT for Mutants and Masterminds. It's existence is literally the only reason you can's say "every d20 system is shit" and be right.

How about the whole thing about nerfing shit because they themselves couldn't catch a mouse tied to their wrist?
Because if a bunch of nerds sitting in an office can't do it, it must be impossible for a strong, in-shape adventurer to do it. Unless it's MAGIC.

Seriously what is up with that

Remember the Holy Gun? A Paladin archetype for use by Paladins who want to use a gun which is strictly worse in every way than an ordinary paladin using a gun without proficiency?

How the fuck does something like that even get made?

I'm assuming that you mean spells that don't scale with level...

...unless they went off the deep end and completely lost what made psionics even remotely well put-together as a system, which was that the powers didn't scale with level and you had to use up more energy making them more powerful.

Because of course they did.

That's interesting to hear. I'd be interested in reading that, if you've got a link.

Yeah warlock builds that peeked into T2 were always gimmicky and needed the exact right set of circumstances to function at their best. Which means that, most of the time, they're T3 anyway.

And I think it says some really bad things about your system when the best part of it is third-party content. Things along the lines of, "you don't know how to do your jobs."

Basically everything Paizo does involving guns is horribly underpowered. Aside from the gun wizard archetype, which is OP because WIZARD, I'm not aware of a single thing that guns are good for outside 3pp.
I'm not sure why, but for some unknown reason they either fucking hate guns despite dumping loads of focus into them, or are batshit retarded at evaluating their own game. I mean, they're already retarded at their game, but this is EVEN FURTHER BEYOND.

No, I mean that psionics in Pathfinder get spells that level up

So you have Mind Thrust I as a level 1 spell that deals 1d6 per caster level max 5d6, Mind Thrust II as a level 2 spell that deals 1d8 per caster level max 5d8, Mind Thrust III as a level 3 spell that deals 1d8 per caster level max 10d8 and so on, and if you know the a higher level variant, you can cast all lower level variants at their respective levels

Okay, I'll give you that. M&M is pretty dope.

That feels, somehow, worse.

How about the Kineticist? A class that seems to function as if they had somehow forgotten magic items even exist at all?

Oh, my bitching about guns in 1PP is by no means my only objection.
Haven't actually looked that hard at the kineticist, though I've heard it's a trainwreck. How bad IS it?

It's actually great, a really inventive class that lets you do really cool things with varying levels of power depending on what you invest

The problem is that it reads like it was designed by two people at once with no idea what the other was doing. So you have this "burn" mechanic where you can spend hit points to power your abilities, and another mechanic that powers you up depending on how much you've burned, and then there's this thing that lets you save up excess burn to be used later, BUT IT DOESN'T POWER YOU UP UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY TAKE THE HP HIT SO IT'S USELESS.

On top of that, the class functions as if it's main damage feature can be buffed with magic items, because it scales just like any other 3/4 BAB classes attacks, but you can't, so it's fucking garbage

So you're left with a class that can't do what it was designed to do, and can't do any damage regardless.

When you say burn, is that the same "only heals from rest" mechanic from 3.x?

>the gun wizard archetype, which is OP because WIZARD
It's pretty meh, actually. Well, at least compared to base Wizard.

Can confirm that Kineticist is pretty dope. I'm playing one right now, and I never thought I'd have so much fun playing Pathfinder. The healing option is actually surprisingly powerful.
Internal Buffer isn't that bad. You have to accept Burn, but the Burn heals overnight, while the Buffer lasts day after day until it's used.
IIRC, there are some magic bracelet-things that buff Kineticists, but I haven't gotten them yet in this campaign because they're pretty expensive, so don't quote me on that.

>It's pretty meh, actually. Well, at least compared to base Wizard.
It's straight-up better than a baseline hurr-fireball evoker. I mean, that's not an accomplishment, but at least it's good at SOMETHING unlike damn near every other gun-class and gun-archetype.

There's a surprisingly good Barbarian gun archetype

By which I mean there's a Barbarian archetype that you're supposed to use guns with, but the features actually favor making a straight melee dexbarian thanks to how it changes your rage (you gain strength and dexterity instead of strength and constitution, you also don't take an AC hit)

>There's a surprisingly good Barbarian gun archetype
Excuse me?!?

>made the mistake of playing a pf game
>one character had a gun
>the other was a swashbuckler
>same level
>gun character was hitting enemies at a max of 18 damage or so with crits
>swashbuckler was hitting for a max of 60 or more without crits because swashbucklers get a dozen bonus modifiers to damage
>sit there dumbfounded and notice the gun player is visibly frustrated
>check paizo forums later for topics on this
>paizo devs and users all agree swashbuckler is fairly balanced

Oh no, swashbucklers suck

Just, gunslingers suck more, especially if they aren't using a revolver

Swashbuckler is actually a little underpowered.
It's just that guns have literally no viable support outside 3pp.

Plenty. D20/D10 is in my mind the best baseline system, and currently 5E is the best D&D iteration we've yet seen. As flawed as any other, but it's more enjoyable than any and even fellow oldfags I've talked to often agree. It isn't PERFECT, it isn't FANTASTIC, but it's definitely the best.

I have played other systems though and they're fine, but D20/D10 will always be the best option for a conventional tabletop RPG.

I think Paizo balances content (on the extremely rare occasion that they actually do balance content) based on their own favorite classes. Seeing as how most Paizo devs claim to play magic characters first and straight damage melee characters second it'd explain why everything that isn't a very specific magic or melee build feels woefully underpowered and useless.

>swashbucklers suck or are underpowered

how in the nine hells did you arrive at this conclusion

gunslingers definitely suck but swashbucklers are probably the most overpowered melee class i've ever seen. not that i have any interest in playing PF anymore or its balance.

At what level did you you guys start out, and how exactly did your Swashbuckler deal 60 damage? We are going to need more concrete math on your end, because the consensus is that the vast majority of PF melee classes are underpowered.

It's Stockholm syndrome for a game. If you go into any "nerd store" you'll find Pathfinder and D&D and nothing else so if you're just starting out with tabletops you have two options and are stuck with them because that's all you'll find. So you play the game and get used to its massive flaws and buy all the books and by the time you know there are other games you've already dropped hundreds of dollars on the vast library of shitty Pathfinder books and it seems like a massive loss and new investment to try a new system.

They catch people new to the hobby who don't know any better so the players literally think that Pathfinder is the be all and end all of tabletop games. If you're lucky you get out and realize that new games require little cost to start and little time to learn because they aren't an abomination of corporate greed and terrible game design.

what's up with the brown hair thing? Does that colour not exist in English or is it a coolstory meme?

>how in the nine hells did you arrive at this conclusion
By actually understanding the game. Having action jams because everything wants your swifts/immediates and being stuck with the worst combat style in the game doesn't help them.

I think it's just to make the generic human fighter even more generic. Brown is about as average as a haircolor as you can get. It isn't bright like blonde, it isn't cool like black, it isn't fiery like red. It's just brown.

>worst combat style
No, the real worst is not-a-monk unarmed.

Being able to TWF and/or use style feats makes that more questionable than you'd think.

Black isn't cool, it's boring as shit even moreso than brown.

No fucking idea, not even anima/exalted threads get as weebtard as /pfg/.

It's a shitposter, and one who likes to make really early new threads with really shitty OPs.
That's also the reason for all the weebshit OPs pathfinder threads get, and the unnatural obsession with kitsune.

"Bro, your eyes" always cracks me up for some reason.

Oh man you would SHIT yourself if you saw a Barbarian or even a goddamn fighter that wasn't retarded.

M8, if a character can't kill themselves in two rounds, they're shit.
The good ones only need one round, but two is the acceptable floor.

But Pathfinder is, for all intents and purposes, free. Thanks to stuff like PFSRD

The only reason to buy anything is if you're playing with the Pathfinder society, which is fucking stupid, because the Pathfinder society is godawful and does not understand their own game

Now I like Pathfinder more.

There are people who buy the books regardless of whether or not the content is free. There's also the buy-in of people with massive 3.5e book collections and the fact that Pathfinder is mostly compatible with them, trading in one abuser for another.
It's a damn shame there's no other free RPG with as much popularity and staying power as Pathfinder, I'd love to play something different for once.

Does society have some stupid "you must bring physical copies of every single book you're taking options from and they have to be signed in your blood" rule or something?

Aside from the signed in blood bit? Yes, you must either have physical copies of the books you're using with you, or pdfs with a digital signature.

It's really fucking stupid, even if Pathfinder wasn't practically all available online, no one who ever plays an RPG in a normal group expects every single person in the group to own the books, usually you only need one guy who owns the books

I never did PFS so I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly wasn't the rule that someone at the table had to have the appropriate book? So you and your roommate can just share a book and cut down on the weight, but if you're playing with randoms you can't assume they have it.

Still kind of a shitty cash grab when most of the stuff is free online though.

Part of the problem is people that start with 3.PF and then assume all systems are just as complex and full of crap

These people will never believe you when you say there genuinely exist games that work when you run them 100% RAW without exceptions.

This sounds like some kind of weird, highly stupid, "cash investment," kind of gatekeeping. Like, they think you'll be a bad player, that you won't be invested in the game, you won't be there to, "actually," play the game, or whatever, if you haven't shelled out enough money to buy the core books and all the other books you need for your build.

Nvm Gurps is cthulhu cultists

Gurps is Satan. Gurps says YOU decide which rules to follow at your own peril.
Gurps has age-old evil tomes you risk your own sanity to read, but the crunchy crunch and well researched fluff rewards the inquisite and stalwart mind.
Gurps is not for the weak. Its not for the GM's who can't say "no" to the 80GUNZ demons. Its not for GM's who can't limit themselves, or who can't resist the lure of adding a little more crunch.

TLDR; GURPS is the club that promises absolute freedom at the small price of both your sanity and immortal soul.

how is that bad that if you want to play on their official circuit you have to own the source material?
that only makes sense.

you can always play with your friends for free without even having to pirate the books, which sounds insanely good.
both the official and unoficcial PF websites are very functional too.

It's a ridiculously potent 1 level dip for basically any full caster class. The ability to add to your DCs just by havign a magic weapon is insane (and the 3x crit on rays can lead to some shenans).

Savage Technologist

It works best as a CQC expert using gun+knife (or rapier). Use Opening Volley for one hand to buff your to-hit with the off hand massively and just smash things.

I never said that was what was stupid about PFS

The stupid thing about PFS is that their rulings are fucking retarded. What they ban and what they allow is so disconnected from the actual balance of the game that it becomes totally arbitrary.

Every edition of M&M is deliberately further divorced from the D20 system.
3e wouldn't even need to be published under the OGL in my opinion, it's just there for branding at this point.

>synthesist outclasses 99% of martial characters
Tll me about pathfinder balance; its always fun

Synthesist outclasses 99% of martial characters, and yet a baseline summoner outclasses synthesist

>not mortaring 80GUNZ

And that is what makes it all the mpre hilarious!

You say that like PF has any semblance of balance.

Sure it does

Shit balance is still balance, a scale that lilts at 80/20 is still a scale

That is retarded reasoning and negates the meaning of the word balance.
Say it what it is, an imbalanced piece of shit system.

Are you a literal fucking retard. By your reasoning, any shit poorly balanced shitstain of a system is now balanced.

Wayne, you're alright.

I actually enjoy playing 3.pf

I feel like I should also mention that the second SKR was no longer on the paizo payroll, he span on a fucking dime. Turned out he was being used as a scapegoat for Jason Bulmahn (the weapon cord = mouse guy) for years.