For those who have played 8th edition of 40K so far, how is it? Planning on getting Dark Imperium later in the week

t.
Tau player

IG is brutal in this edition

Imagine how renegades and heretics will be in 8th edition then

I am withholding my opinion until the meta emerges. In particular, I want to see how horde spam works out. Also vehicle/knights spam. If it's not OP, then this is a very good edition.

Theres several glaring flaws

I've been playing since 3rd edition.

I currently primarily play 30k which barring some thousand sons nonsense was a very well balanced game. Having so much fun playing 30k made me.realisr the issue wasn't inherently with the core 7th edition rules which were fine for the most part but with things like formations , there being no constraints on lords of war units and certain codex's having certain overpowered options (eldar/tau).

Unfortunately 8th edition went and gutted the game into something unrecognisable it's basically age of Sigmar in space.

They've removed so many options that made the game tactically interesting to play and homogenised so many things to make them basically identical that the games lost its heart. It's also a mess to play with tactics in this edition being move your horses of infantry at eachother and roll dice until one of you wins.

>No more unit positioning. This means I can't flank around a unit to take out their special weapons or snipe out a hero. Nor can I flank around a tank to hit it's weaker armour. Nor does mitigating these things matter

>No more risk/reward choices with deep striking/outflanking

>No more vehicle positioning. All vehicles have effective 360 degree line of sight and I can fire all my land raiders weapons outside of its tank treads.

>Hilarious unit conga lines. Due to positioning not mattering power gamers have already worked out that forming conga line of units with your most powerful at the front is effective as you by raw only need to remove the models at the far back of the conga line.

>Hilarious unit bubbling. The death star isn't dead it's just called the bubble now with powerful character units bubbled together with cheap infantry around them.

Cont

>Conscript spam. With templates removed there's no effective ways to kill infantry hordes making them the best units in the game. Perhaps that's fluffy but playing against 500 conscripts every game isn't as fun as it sounds.

>multiple units obsoleted as so many units are basically identical. Mega nobz for example in terms of pure stats are just shitty killa kanz

>No more USRs meaning instead of saying 'oh this unit has rending and fnp' we say ' this unit has nurgles resilience and mortal claws ' but another unit will have entirely different names for the same abilities, but with slightly different rules. And this applies to every single unit in the game. So look forward to spending a long time reading your opponents unit entries. Again while this has always been an issue this edition doesn't fix it.

>Same old bloat and power creep problems. They're going to be releasing new codexs with new toys and your old stuff will be obsoleted.

>Still a power gamers wet dream. Unfortunately 'simplified' rules mean badly written unclear rules, which will be exploited by that guy. While it's always been a factor in the game it's even more so now.

>Even for regular gamers the rules are unclear on multiple fronts like LOS, close combat.

Overall 8th edition 40k will be good for ten year olds starting the game and good for games workshops abuse victims who eat any piece of shit gw feeds them. Unfortunately for anyone else the games dead and buried.

Not helping your position with the meme bullshit, mate.

Knights are garbage for their cost, so you're good on that front.

Yeah those images are meme bait but they still all raise various legitimate flaws within the system.

Woah user that's not fair to assume at all.

He might be an eldar player.

take snipers then, if that is realy an issue for you. as it stands, it is an autopass look out sir!

Both of them were in 7e, neither of those images are unique to 8e at all.

>rolling for charge distance exists, it can be failed
>you can't feely target characters

Going a step further, the alternatives to both those rules are worse. Rolling charge makes it unpredictable and a calculated risk, and free character targeting would mean characters are either blocks of meat or useless.

Never design a game.

You got that one wrong.

try actually playing it against someone who knows what they're doing
I had a lot of the same thoughts when I first read through the rules, but I found myself having to consider my movement and positioning a lot more than I ever did in 7th.
Almost everything you listed is either a minor preference issue, not an issue, or something that was changed to improve balance. The only legitimate complaint there is that hordes are possibly too strong.

>flaws
they illustrate rules that maybe you don't personally like, but that doesn't make them flawed, they make perfect sense from a game balancing perspective
some of us are in it for a game, not a 1-to-1 simulation, and abstractions for the sake of balance are fine
we tournament now

Which part of "between the closest points of the BASES" don't you undersand?

The base means the physical plastic disc, not some invisible cylinder that extends into fucking space.

You know this rule basically represents the "Look out sir" rule right?

It's there to make it so you don't need to bus around characters in chaff any more, but still promotes using effective bodyguard units like Tyrant Guard.

Actually he's plenty correct otherwise you'd never be able to engage gargoyles in Melee.

Are you retarded? Gargoyles have a physical base that rests on the ground. It doesn't hover in midair, it rests on the ground.

I was more pointing out it's almost impossible to fit models into base contact with Gargoyles, perhaps I was less clear.

You'd never be able to engage Grav-tanks or Tau tanks in melee then.

First, you don't need base to base contact, you need to be within one inch of the enemy base.

Second, is the question of whether or not a flying stand is counted as a 'base' for the purpose of rules, because if it isn't then distances are measured to the model instead.

All in all its a fucking shitshow as far as play testing goes, this edition may be the 'most play tested' as Gdub claims but that just means they hit a new high in quantity of work, not quality.

Ignore this.

40k is as tactically engaging as ever. Unfortunately some players are only able to equate strategy with the number of pages the core rules are.

I find I am thinking about the strategy and tactics of my army this edition the same amount as last edition. Play it and you'll see.

It's actually easy to resolve.

Measure from both the model and the base and discuss with your opponent.

If the guy legit tries to argue things like 3" stumps stopping titans or Gargoyles being unassaultable due to their bases, then simply call them a cunt and move on.

If everyone starts going full WAAC mode, It makes every game shit.

It's almost like it's a flawed rule that needs errata'd or houseruled

Oh I agree entirely, sticking to the intent of the rules almost universally improves games of all kinds. However as someone who has a near compulsive need to learn the rules of whatever I play, things like this really sour the taste of the product and make it feel low quality.

Or it's almost like GW didn't want to cater to turbo autists trying to abuse stupid rules for "Muh tourney" when any self-respecting tourney judge will tell the faggot to cut that shit out.

>Makes it feel Low quality.

On the contrary, things like Warmachine are possibly one of the most autistically strict rulesets in any wargame and that game feels like a by the numbers autisticfest where your models need not even be on the table because everything is abstracted to the point of obscurity.

WAAC people who try to abuse these rules are the speedrunners of Wargaming, Nobody finds them amusing but other autistic fuckheads.

Indeed. And then houserule it so that the actual rule does not apply. No one is arguing that it isn't dumb as shit or saying they'll actually play that way. But those are the rules. They are what they are.

I'm talking about the book not the product, I still love the game and have fun playing despite the many missteps it has. Gdub has designed a lovely game, it just hasn't implemented it well.

If you're making shitty MSpaint pictures and bitching about a rule not being 100% airtight then you really have some problems of your own to sort out.

Is there a scan of the new indexes somewhere?

Pdfs and epubs friendo.

mega:#F!ToIUlLiR!o91HYGSY9WBNpei5P_2bTw!m5RmWDhB

Rolled 3, 3, 1, 3, 1, 2, 1, 3, 2, 3 = 22 (10d3)

I like it, youtube.com/watch?v=Vx0nb8yTnFY

Hoping we get sustained and regular codexs that don't unbalance things though.

The Good news is if they do, then you will likely only have to wait maximum a year before they roll out the points adjustments for all armies

Im retarded how do I use this?

>damage should spread through units like it does in AoS
Nah that's silly, that would make a las cannon the best anti infantry heavy weapon option.
5 other guys aren't just going to drop dead out of sympathy when their made gets turned into red mist by an anti tank weapon.

like a URL

The knight can just go into the ruin and assault the guys, they're still on the ground floor.

doesn't seem to work

This

Anyone who argues that a knight shouldn't be able to hit them is someone who you probably shouldn't be playing 40k with, I refuse to play against anyone who's going to act like an autistic child.

>Bu... bu... the rules say

Intent is what's important, not rules lawyering.

>Intent is what's important, not rules lawyering.
If I could give you an actual prize in real life, I would. Because you deserve it.

...

Awww.

It is enough that my Ork's aren't shit again, that is my prize.

I actually feel kind of bad about how good a 30 man squad of slugga boys is.

fixed

mega.nz/#F!ToIUlLiR!o91HYGSY9WBNpei5P_2bTw

This, the big issue right now is any flavor of space marines are very boring now, more so then before, and in many cases very limited. For example, my dark angels army, super bland, and actually cant even run it with any efficiency until a 1.5k point game. Also with the lack of codices their power level is highly lacking.

I'm inclined to not believe you because you used the exact same metaphor (beer-and-pretzels, slap some guys on the table and have a laugh) a lot of people used to describe AoS. 8th edition looks nothing like AoS, and while I haven't had the chance to play yet- and you could be right- you sound like someone just upset that things are changing at all.

shit is awesome, all the god tier races got nerfed

you're a peach. Spaseeba.

My complaints so far are
>No vehicle facings
>Lack of relics (Codexes/supplements will hopefully fix)
>Wargear options reduced. It makes it a little harder to distinguish Captain OC of the donutsteels from the others. (Codexes/supplements will hopefully fix)
>No chapter tactics equivalent for anybody, especially chaos who JUST got their legion tactics. (Codexes/supplements will hopefully fix)
>Game seems to outright prefer hordes over tight units.
>Space marine drop pods can't deep strike withing 9" like everything else whereas before, they were guaranteed to get in as close as possible with no mishaps

Love most everything else.

I can dig 8th, even as a recent return to the game I find that Im looking things up alot less and there is alot less to explain to my friends when telling them about how the games work

I have to fight chaos today this is my list, thoughts?

What app is that?

>app
Dum nigga go to the General and search for it in the OP, it's a website.

thanks a lot friendo

Mechanically it'd be useful, since it would stymie the horde spam efficiently and would make big blasty weapons like battlecannons attractive.

You're both retarded, if a model doesn't have a base, you use the body of the model instead, the only question here is if flying bases are- Oh wait, they're fucking bases and you're idiots.

IIRC anything knights sized plus isn't gonna stoop over to attack infantry, it's just gonna stamp on them as you would crush something of similar size.

Also rubble isn't ruins fucknut, ruins are wrecked building that are still buildings, rubble is what's left of a building that doesn't exist anymore, a knight can so attack marines that are standing ON rubble, just not IN ruins more than one floor up, you guys are such bitchy complaining idiots it astounds me.

TL;DR you all need to learn how to fucking read.

we are talking about GW
there will be power creep
just glance at AoS

Personally I disliked vehicle facings since any turn based ruleset that simulates a real time battle is necessarily one of abstraction. Vehicle facings meant that rather than a grand battle playing out in your head it was a game where time actually functioned in a turn based fashion. In addition, having vehicle facings for vehicles but not for anything else is preposterous. You're telling me that shooting a unit in the back does me no good whatsoever? That the element of surprise which is one of the most important elements of combat has no actual advantage?

I'm going to have a real hearty laugh once formations are back and Eldar are on top again.

Space Woofs are and Bangles actually play pretty differently and have a lot of extra stuff. Dangles are just in a place where appropriate you really have is "my bikes have jink" since FOC manipulation isn't a thing that matters anymore.

Been playing just as long as this guy and I agree pretty much with everything he said.

You can tell apart the shitters from the good players by the ones who think the new game is "dumbed down". The new rules are simpler but create deeper interactions, leading to a game that's easy to earn but hard to master, ie, precisely the goal of good game design.

There's still a bunch of stuff to be fixed for sure, I'm not trying to suck off GW too hard here, but if they keep at it this is easily the best starting foundation to build on the game has ever had, and they're actually listening to community feedback now and taking people's opinions into account.

The existence of the "hovering" rule on the DE Raider implies that flying stands are indeed bases.

It seems alright. Carnifex hitting on 5+ with Claws is heartbreaking though...

I like turtles

But that's how it worked in 7th as well, assuming they are in the same unit.

I like 8th but without the codices it's very soulless. I'm shelving my armies until their books arrive. I can fall back on other games until then:

>flames of war / team yankee
>bolt action
>pathfinder
>Zombicide

Going to start Infinity soon as well.

Are you kidding? This is the best time to play 40k before the codeces come in and muck it all up.

It can't possibly be any worse then 7th
This is probably the best time to play, before codices come out and the whole insane cycle starts again.

Eh...I dunno, I feel like 8th somehow manages to be worse, not because of one army being better than any other (though people are already looking for ways to game the system, ex brimstone & herald smitespam), so much as the game is buggy as fuck.

Like, "Plasma Guns are twice as likely to blow up at nighttime" buggy.

Like "Flamethrowers are better for anti-aircraft than crowd control" buggy.

Like, "a Gun Drone can stop a Land Raider from moving or shooting" buggy.

Or "a Valkyrie can play Battlebots with a Leman Russ" buggy.

I feel like the debatable gain in balance isn't worth the obvious wonkiness in the game. In b4 "muh abstraction".

I'm letting my buddy (space wolves) fuck my asshole (tau) this weekend yeah, his mom just died so I feel bad for him :(

So far I have liked how its not bogged down by shitty rules, but I kinda miss vehicle facing. I hope they add an 'advanced rule' to make it work somehow. If not I will do it myself.

This. Fucking.... this.

you are literally the worst kind of nigger

>You're telling me that shooting a unit in the back does me no good whatsoever?
Well previously you would have an easier time breaking armour from the rear. Though I came in on the ass-end of 7th so I'm not a real expert here.

All things I really don't see as much of a problem. All things I am willing to deal with for a smoother game, which of all those I have played, this definitely is.

Plasma guns blowing up with -1 tohit means you have to be more conservative with firing them and no overcharging all the time.

Sure flamers hit flyers easier, but the likelihood of them, even heavy flamers, taking on a flyer and doing any meaningful damage are still pretty slim. People are still going to be shooting the multi-damage guns at flyers because its better chance of shaving off wounds. It's the lasguns vs land raiders argument all over again.

In order for drones to stop the land raider from moving they need to completely surround it so it cannot move freely out. Not as easy as you think, especially since drones rip apart like tissue. But it can happen, and again, for the sake of keeping the combat rules to only a few pages, I am willing to deal with the occasional shenanigan.

Dude, all these things can be addressed with added pages, rules, and lists of exceptions, providing even more rules bloat and murkiness. I just don't see it as worth it. I don't even see them as bugs. Quirks maybe, but not buggy.

8th is better than 7th because 7th is a bloated mess. It was a drudge to play through. Games were unnecessarily long. And the faction imbalances were atrocious.

You can deny it all you want, but 8e is I feel for the better. You can't even get me to touch 7e again, even for 30k, which while the balance is much better, it's still eating a shit sandwich.

Who space elf?

What's good and what sucks for space elf?

Dire Avengers how much should they cost?

Did they finally raise the point cost floor on units in general? One of the biggest mistakes in the move from 2nd to 3rd was dropping the points on everything, as it gave designers a lot less design room on the low end and so readily lent itself to imbalances in lower-tier units. This was something that could only be fixed with a total reboot, and now we have it, so I hope they did something.

>>No more unit positioning. This means I can't flank around a unit to take out their special weapons or snipe out a hero. Nor can I flank around a tank to hit it's weaker armour. Nor does mitigating these things matter
That is most one of the WAAC thing that made me trun away from turnament play, some moron using 2 tanks so he can snipe my heavy weapon. Noice.
>>No more risk/reward choices with deep striking/outflanking
Kinda, but with new assault and morale this would be propably OP
>>No more vehicle positioning. All vehicles have effective 360 degree line of sight and I can fire all my land raiders weapons outside of its tank treads.
That good, it caused more problems with fags who abused rules and gimp the angles. But I still think LOS should be counted from weapon.
>>Hilarious unit conga lines. Due to positioning not mattering power gamers have already worked out that forming conga line of units with your most powerful at the front is effective as you by raw only need to remove the models at the far back of the conga line.
WAAC mark, dont play with dicks, dont be dick yourself.
>>Hilarious unit bubbling. The death star isn't dead it's just called the bubble now with powerful character units bubbled together with cheap infantry around them.
It was in 40k before, it was in WFB. Stop being a crybaby.
>Conscript spam. With templates removed there's no effective ways to kill infantry hordes making them the best units in the game. Perhaps that's fluffy but playing against 500 conscripts every game isn't as fun as it sounds.
Yes, everyone will buy and paint 500 models.
At this point Im sure you havent even played single 8ed game.

Nice dakka, but you gonna be tight on objective.
All unicts score now? If yes You are good.
Might swap Devs for something CC oriented.

Your space elf has some health issiue. Heads arent that big.

Can someone explain that picture to me? Girlyman is a separate unit, right? Why not just target him?

Are you serious?

Just found the rule in question. I don't have them memorized yet, big whoop.

Do we have the 8th edition stats for the Leviathan Dread?

It's Ollanius' descendant dying to protect a son of the Emperor from multiple deadly Chaos attacks. He's mirroring his ancestor's sacrifice ten millenia ago, but at a smaller scale since the present is not as glorious and grandiose as the fabled past. That pic is pottery in its purest form, user.

For some armies, like the Crons, yes.
Others are a mixed bag.
The Grey Knights, for example, seem to have their previously good units become more expensive while their less good ones got cheaper.
The sisters became all around cheaper, save for a few units.

You can't target characters if there's another unit in front of them & the character has less than 10 wounds. It might be less than 11, not sure.

Check the OP in the 40k general. Imperial Forge World got leaked.

check em