All your tech is controlled by a another nation that's also a mystery cult

>all your tech is controlled by a another nation that's also a mystery cult
This is one of the most retarded concepts in all of fiction. If you told a tool-using apeman that he could only get his sharpened sticks from the techape tribe and that if his rock ax get dull he has to go to the techapes to sharpen it he'd laugh at you.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohism
youtube.com/watch?v=x6QZn9xiuOE
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

you have no idea how bad it really is.

40k humans being stupider than monkeys is pretty bad.

Sounds like the contemporary legal system and the institutionalization of attorneys. They're basically priests, with ritual and arcane language.

Not hard to imagine at all.

for every Adept that believes that the imperium and Mars are a separate entity, there is another that believes the opposite

the AdMech can't exist without the imperium, and the imperium can't exist without the AdMech

they are symbiotic

Go ahead, invent something. We dare you.

The monkeys in 40k put most of the mechanicus to shame.
I'm serious.

The Adeptus Mechanicus are absolutely necessary. The ritual, pomp, and secrecy? It is to appease (or mitigate the damage caused by) the machine spirits which are very. very. real.

>by a another nation
No.

>hurr durr why doesn't this intentionally crazy sci-fi setting make complete logical sense

Found the nofun hyperautist. AdMech are literally the only entertaining thing left in 40k. Try that shitty Nobledark thread, it sounds more your pace.

Because a plasma cannon is exactly as easy to reverse engineer and replicate as a sharp stick, right?

That always bugs me when people group "technology" all together. Like I assume Ad Mechs wont come down on you for designing your own wheelbarrow, but I still don't really know where the line on something like that would be in a futuristic setting

That reminded on how Emps had go out of his way to stop Lorgar worship but never moved a finger to stop the admech worship of him. And the red guys never did the math over the fact that the Emperor razed all the churches and religions he could encounter or the whole shebang with Lorgar. Also if the Emperor was so dependant on the Martians to the point of accommodating their beliefs... how he managed go to Mars in first place? How he mustered men and equipment enough to gangpress the Martians into accepting him when all they always cared was about looting Earth now and then?

Foundation by Isaac Asimov.

The Foundation establishes a religion in order to spread technology without letting people learn how it works. Then they use that religious power to defeat an enemy because all the priests were loyal to the Foundation. This was published long before WH40k and is regarded as one of the best sci-fi books in history. A better example would be that car-driving apeman doesn't know how to take care of his car. He has to go to the car-fixing apeman or the car will just stop working. Which the car-fixing apeman is a special inductee into a religious order, one that only taught him how to replace shit rather than how it actually works.

Complex enough to support a machine spirit=holy, would be my guess.

This seems pretty safe, include the fancier guns in that too I'd wager, plasma and such. I'd reckon your average guardsman quartermaster could do patch jobs on a flamer and not get sevitor-d.

In the time it would take to explain and answer all your questions you could just go and read the fluff yourself.

The quick rundown is Mars strong, Terra poor. Mars could shit out the supplies fast enough that the Emps go go out and find his sons. As this happened they would also find premade forgeworlds that instead of having to be conquered over and over would instantly become apart of the Imperium and help it grow.

Also youre forgetting that the Emps didnt 'allow' the cult to think he was a god he encouraged them. He planted the void dragon on mars for a reason. All so despite the mess that the Admech are these days pre-heresy things were looking bright for them. Emps could gather the better Magos together and use them but most of them died in the webway.

And then the final truth is the less people meddling with technology in 40k the better.

There's been fluff of guard even fucking around with Russes and stuff, where the Techpreists got autistical but not murderously autistical.

Given ten thousand years all imperial worlds should be advanced enough to make plasma cannons.

>Given ten thousand years all imperial worlds should be advanced enough

what gave you this asinine idea?

constant grimdark wartime is a helluva thing when it comes to scientific advancement.

Why were Earth and Mars so powerful that they could conquer the entire galaxy? It would be like if Hong Kong and Singapore teamed up and conquered the entire world.

yeah or like if germany and japan teamed up and tried to conquer all of europe and asia

Human history.
Most imperial worlds experience centuries or even millennia of peace.

I think it maybe, MAYBE, had something to do with the Emperor capturing a shard of a C'tan that could control technology.

Germany and Japan in WWII existed at a time when there were only like a hundred nations and they had among the highest populations. In 40k Mars and Terra are literally just two planets in a galaxy full of millions. If anything my analogy about Hong Kong and Singapore gave them too much credit.

>Human history.

You must be an illiterate if you misread it that badly.

>Its an 'I dont know the lore but answer my retarded questions in a way that I agree with or I'll shit up the thread' episode
Again?

They took it one piece at a time.

Humans don't stay in a tech stasis even if they lose tech or even if you try to restrict knowledge. Before written language they can stay in the stone age for thousands of years but once they can write ideas down and pass them on rapid advancement is inevitable.

Why are 40k fans so defensive?

This

OP is a retard as usual

>this thing is fucking stupid
>research, retard
>LOL WOW DEFENSIVE MUCH

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Science
This sounds nothing like the Admech.

The concept of the admech is stupid, knowing the history behind it doesn't make it any less stupid.

Not even fiction:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohism

One consequence of Mohist understanding of mathematics and the physical sciences, combined with their pacifist philosophy and skills as artisans, was that they became the pre-eminent siege engineers during the period prior to the Qin unification of China, capable of both reducing defenses and holding cities. They believed in aiding the defensive warfare of smaller Chinese states against the hostile offensive warfare of larger domineering states.

The Mohist beliefs were outside the mainstream of Chinese thought and culture, but they were tolerated and employed for their utility as siege engineers. They were renowned in the smaller states (and the enemies of the larger states) for the inventions of siege machinery to scale or destroy walls.

This component of Mohism is dramatized in the story of Gongshu, recorded in the Mohist canon. Mozi travels 10 days and nights when he hears that Gongshu Pan has built machines for the king of Chu to use in an invasion of the smaller state of Song. Upon arriving in Chu, Mozi makes a wall out of his belt and sticks to represent machines, and shows Gongshu Pan that he can defend Song against any offensive strategy Chu might use. Mozi then announces that three hundred of his disciples are already on the walls of Song, ready to defend against Chu. The king cancels the invasion.

>The concept of the admech is stupid
NO U

A order of math monks who were good siege engineers is not the same thing as a group that has a monopoly on all technology.

>trying to apply logic
>to 40k
What did he mean by this?

>AdMech are literally the only entertaining thing left in 40k
try another game, sounds more your pace.

having a superhuman leader capable of making worlds bow down to him just by his presence alone, combined with the fact that he created legions of superhumans capable of the impossible, and the fact the Imperium just annexed previously settled worlds really helps.

The entire thrust of OP's argument is essentially that Guilds don't exist.

The Admech obviously doesn't have a complete monopoly on all technology everywhere always, but it is the number one manufacturer of technology, keeps a tight lid on who is allowed to produce tech, and most importantly are the only ones with the knowledge and expertise to replicate the highest tech.

The only conclusion one can draw from the OP is that he is unable to comprehend the notion of trade restrictions, the difference between official orthodoxy and actual practice, or that he has far too broad a definition of technology.

>But user isn't that just redefining terms yourself to suit your argument?

Not really, since the lore disagrees with itself in multiple books on how controlling the Admech is and how superstitious people are about common technology like lightbulbs. ANd little wonder it is so, considering 40k takes place over a MILLION WORLDS.

TLDR: OP is a faggot who probably enjoys the taste of penis, next question?

So? The vast majority of people don't know how to code their operating system from scratch either, they bought theirs from Microsoft instead. Same thing applies.

There are, in fact, rather a lot of Imperial worlds where literacy is uncommon. Some worlds are locked in a pseudo-medival era and tech level, while Feral worlds are usually Classical age at best. In many such cases their Governors prefer to keep their subjects as they are, to promote stability and thus maintain their control. As long as they meet their tithe and worship the Emperor, the Imperium doesn't really care.

Also, generally speaking the Mechanicus maintains their monopoly by brain draining worlds. Any prospective talent is drafted and indoctrinated, leaving no-one to advance outside their control. Those who resist become servitors and cogitators, if they can't go underground as a heretech. If someone starts to threaten their monopoly significantly, they wipe them out.

I loved every part of this answer.

More importantly he doesn't understand how tribal arrangements, foreign trade or even feudalism worked either. You can find many historical cases where one tribe, clan, vassal was responsible for a vital craft (say, blacksmithing, or banking) or a country provided entire categories of technological artifacts to another.
It's like not the Admech is equal to or completely independent from the Imperium so this sort of arrangement is precisely what one would expect to emerge.

I've been wondering, what exactly is going on in this pic.

>the most fundamental principle of mohismis basically the antithesis of the chinese sociopath8c tribalism

Yeah, needless to say universal love was probably their most controversial doctrine.
Then again we have the example of Christian universalism vs Jewish tribalism.

This is the exact relationship NATO countries have with the US.

I don't know man. The orks are still pretty cool.

Op unrelated question. But be honest, are you on the Autism spectrum? There is no shame if you are, just am curious.

its supposed to be medieval trade guilds and the catholic church rolled into one, guys who kept all the good stuff from the general public

its that pumped up to a million, where we turn "we wont tell you how to make ironwork" to "we wont tell you how to use anything more advanced than a toaster"

british comedy, where we laugh at people being forced to pay a lightbulb tax or else live in a cave or be turned into a cyborg against your will if you use a light bulb anyways

I think when you are able to seperate the meme fuckery built around 40k and what would make sense in the context of the universe it's not nearly as stupid as it sounds.

For what it's worth I've always felt that the Mechanicus have the reigns on the very high end of technology. It's one thing for an advanced world to have universities where people go to learn various trade skills, egineering, and medicine but when it comes to shit like advanced cybernetics (remember, they have medical kits with quick replacement bionics that you literally stick onto the stump) to shit like building warp engines and how invovled they are in various industries varies with their presence.

As others have noted, there are billions of worlds with all manner of cultures so while you'll have some medievel dirt farmer on an agri-world the nobility are very much in tune with the rest of the setting in terms of technology and what not so any wonder farmer jeb knows that if you piss the king's soldiers off enough they get the light sticks that set you and your house on fire.Alternatively you have hive gangers who are using illegally modified las pistols and hackers who have the planet's intranet to download heretical porn to their dataslates.

It's a great book, but it's not a lot of fun to read, tbqh. His later stuff is much more interesting to read, and I personally think Prelude to Foundation is superior, from a storytelling standpoint.

Well consider that Foundation was actually a collection of short stories rather than written as a proper novel. I admit I haven't gotten to Prelude to Foundation yet, but that is one of his later works so it's not surprising it's more polished.

No they aren't. That's fanon, there's no indication in canon that the machine spirits are anything other than superstition. Superstition informed by fact, but those facts are no longer applicable.

They're real in sone situations, mostly with heavier firepower like Land Raiders or titans, being pseudo AI that aren't quite sapient usually patterned on animals, or the machine intelligences that run admech ships that barely skirt that line of true ai or Virtual Intelligence.

Lasguns however most certainly do not have machine spirits and that is an example of the cargocultism and degeneration of the Martian tech adepts who rely on fragmented heresay and damaged records rather than thinking for themselves.

>heretical porn
Now I'm fucking curious... What even would heretical porn be? Like... Pictures of Emps naked? Slaaneshi demons getting off? What?

Serious answer?
Think the VHS from True Detective Season 1, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Ten thousand years, millions of worlds, and you're trying to act like the Imperium is a city-state. Hoarding knowledge doesn't work on that scale nor does hoarding tools.

given that the ad mech really are jusy guilds in space, then the implication is that they do what guilds do, including hoarding knowledge, but blown to a billion times its size

>medieval trade guilds and the catholic church
If either of those things worked like the Admech and if humans IRL worked like in 40k we'd still be living in the dark ages, actually we probably never would've gotten out of the stone age.

You're trying to apply concepts that only work in small regions over centuries to a entire galaxy over ten thousand years and acting like it's realistic.

In the actual story, the mechanicum want a seat on the high lords (during the heresy) and intimidate the adeptus terra by sending a imperator titan stomping towards the palace

>Stolen from Dune
That's pretty much it. The thing is though, the monkey in your brilliant analogy probably knows how to sharpen the stick itself or a least could figure it out. In case of 40k, Techpreys are the only ones who even vaguely understand how shit works, they're the only one who even can understand it thanks to years or centuries of study and augmentation and they're the only ones who have schematics which are necessary to even try to understand. And they have resources to keep it that way, because they're the only one who can manufacture, well, pretty much everything war-related in the Imperium. While the rest of humanity plunged into anarchy and shitfest after the fall, they were sitting on Mars, studying, preparing and building foundation for this sweet monopoly they have now, it's not like someone just decided "you'll be in charge of all technology from now on" As shitty as technological understanding is in 40k, the priests are literally centuries ahead of the rest of humanity

>You're trying to apply concepts that only work in small regions over centuries to a entire galaxy over ten thousand years and acting like it's realistic.
>realistic
this is warhammer, its not realistic in the slightest, they just put guilds and the catholic church IN SPACE

the entirety of 40k is built by putting historical things in space with a gratuitous helping of lasers and missile launchers

its dark comedy from people being forced to beg the scary cyborgs for the privilege to toast their bread, while space knights templars are just outside ripping orks to pieces

you know we even have rules that buff machine spirit controlled machines like landraider and such ?
have you ever opened a 40k book or are you just shit breath baiting ?

It was a snowball effect. Thanks to the Marines and the fact that human worlds were scattered and weak, the Great Crusade generally didn't have much losses, while on every reclaimed world crowds of people joined it, it being led by a godlike warlord promising to unite humanity again. It grew in strength as it went.

Embarrassing tbqh.

>XXXTech priestess will do ANYTHING to reclaim this STC!XXX

I'm more interested in what NON-heretical porn would be like. Because now you have to imagine some scholar or commissar or SOMEBODY looking at two pictures and going "Hmmmm, yes, yes. I think the brunette rather than the blond would be more in line with today's guardsman." Then slamming an approved stamp on it and sending on its way while burning the other one and taking two more pictures to repeat the process.

There has to be at least ONE space marine chapter involved in the "industry."

cain makes references to "porno slates" which are probably data slates with their memory maxed it with porn

they are very popular with most guardsmen, so they are likely fairly average in content

>Oh, hello. Are you here to fix the Imperium sactioned educational film projector?
>THIS IS CORRECT. I, BROTHER SMITEHATE, REPAIRER OF IMPERIUM SANCTIONED EDUCATIONAL FILM PROJECTORS, FIRST OF THE REPAIR MEN, AND INSTRUMENT OF HIS WILL, AM HERE TO CORRECT YOUR LACK OF WHOLESOME PROPAGANDA.

Really considering how corrupt the Administratum is there should entire hidden planets pumping out cheap knockoff lasguns that are then sold on the black market, plus all the real ones that get lost.

I think there are a few tank variants where the regiment modified it in some way as their needs required (That is basically what the Russ was designed for), then the Mechanicus were like "Oh shit what have you done? Is this heretek?" and then they have a big meeting and a few hundred years later go "Nah it's cool, we make these officially now"

You know that somewhere, some techpriest is playing this while trying to understand the reproductive mating rituals of some xenos species.

youtube.com/watch?v=x6QZn9xiuOE

Motherfucker, I'm not a priest. Don't get all bitchy because you can't fucking read a case to understand the law.

The collapse of the Eldar empire and the warp storms caused by the birth of slaanesh isolated pretty much everyone, not just Terra, so galactic civilisations were very much in a minority.

Mars was already in contact with other Forge Worlds, so was able to add them to the fledgling Imperium with no trouble. Plenty of other planets joined up as soon as Big E showed on their doorstep and then you have those planets resources. Other planets were also more technologically primitive than the Expedeitionary fleets, or had only a minimal population for some reason.