/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

la la homo man,

>wanting to play a game about vampire mafia intrigues

>noooo you have to include mages so that i can tell how the mages would destroy all your stories with their glorious spheres

>wanting to play a game about vamps but some magefag on Veeky Forums says i have to include mages

>now my game is mostly about some autists running around and blabbering about the consensus

Ok.

Changeling is something I would like to get into but something does not sit right. I might be missing something

The games are generally boring, unimaginative, and both splats turn what are usually quality and respectable roleplayers into twats.

>Invictus > Circle of the crone > Ordo Dracul > Carthian > Lancea Sanctum

Ordo Dracul>Invictus>unwashed masses

Beast, ODemon, either version of Mummy. And to a lesser extent NWerewolf.

NWerewolf is meh, but I can get into it with the right concepts. Bone Shadow spoopbuster here I come.

ODemon leaned too hard on Abrahamic Mythology when every game line that wasn't Vampire made it pretty clear that wasn't how the universe worked.

Beast, well we all know what's wrong with Beast. No self awareness at all on the devs or writers.

OMummy - I have less guidance for what i'm supposed to do with this than Geist or Beast had. And I have to set my games in the middle east rather than locally.

NMummy - Cool Idea but it gets old real fast. Also, the backstory and mood step on Mage's toes way too much.

As the initial poster, I'll say it seemed to me that the Reckoning/ToJ plot came on before everyone was expecting it and some people got surprised. Given just how much stuff never materialized including half the guildbooks for Wraith - It was just "welp, we're pulling the plug, let's roll out the secret behind the Mnemoi, ferrymen, and everything else."

We're staying out of this particular paradox backlash.

Can someone explain to me Old Mummy. I have rudimentary knowledge of classic wod but little to no idea how this fits in.

Placing circle anywhere but dead last.

Come on senpai.

>Implying the Circle is worse then the Carthians

Lets face it only Ordo and Invictus are based.

I don't know if I dislike crones more then lancea thou

Is the circle of the crone the one that's like a creepy pseudo-wiccan cult of radical feminists?

In second ed that might be true. I mostly followed 1ed fluff for them and second ed rules

Have you played Bloodborne? It's basically Hemwick villagers.

PRAISE THE SUN

It's a damn good sun.

>Is the circle of the crone the one that's like a creepy pseudo-wiccan cult of radical feminists?

Yes, although the portrayal is a little more "inclusive" in Requiem 2e.

>Ordo Dracul>Invictus>unwashed masses

Seers>Ordo Dracul>Invictus>unwashed sleeper masses

>Undead or alive, you haven't made it until you've snorted magic cocaine off the ass of a vampire stripper

anyone got a sneaky pdf of the new Thousand Years of Night splat yet?

The Seer art in Mage 2e does have a quasi-Catholic Lacea et Sanctum vibe.

old Changeling was some crazy shit that didn't knew what it wanted to be.

>anyone got a sneaky pdf of the new Thousand Years of Night splat yet?

ATYoN has been posted on the last few threads.

Here you go (but prepare for some disappointment):

sendspace.com/file/2q4c7g

yes, with gender roles that anyone can can assume

Praetorian>Panopticon>Ordo>Invictus>Hegemonic>unwashed supernatural masses>Paternoster>unwashed sleeper masses

>even your exarch doesn't want to talk to you

OChangeling was about growing old in fandom, and how many people either drift out or go all in.

It took me a decade to figure that out, and only now do I appreciate it.

>yes, with gender roles that anyone can can assume

Circle of the Gender Non-Binary, Senior Experienced, Beautiful In Their Own Way, Person ???

>even your exarch doesn't want to talk to you

I believe the Father has Prelates with whom converses, but the Minister appears to be out of favor.

Don't worry, some ambitious underling will soon assassinate him, err... he'll have an "accident," and all will be good in the Ministry.

>Bless you child, and where might I find the hookers and blow...?

Fucking hell, someone find an Obrimos.

>Circle of the Gender Non-Binary, Senior Experienced, Beautiful In Their Own Way, Person

The Crone is not amused

I'd say it's more like a hellfire club turned up to 11.

Eh, he'll only be disappointed expecting it to be the Imperial Mysteries of Requiem. For an Elder book, it's good. Not anything new for those of us who are old Masquerade hats with the elder stuff written therein, but still good.

They want my eyes?

>Fucking hell, someone find an Obrimos.

So many leeches, and so few Obrimos...

>Don't forget about Moros

>I'd say it's more like a hellfire club turned up to 11.

Every time I see the art, I recall the movie Eyes Wide Shut

>Ugh... and I also remember Tom Cruise Lestat

Sure. Other parts too

Well antagonist section is kinda bad. Also you probably have to make adjustments to the way you create playable elders

Still looks kinda bad. Hegemonic has fallen on hard times but at least Unity does not troll his go to guy

Don't give OPP any ideas, user.

I still think the best games of Mage are the ones that run the system in a different setting. There's nothing inherently wrong with the concept, and there's nothing unplayably wrong with the execution, but the biggest Flaw for Mage games IMHO has always been the World of Darkness setting.

Personally I think Mage and Scion should belong to the same line together.

>Eh, he'll only be disappointed expecting it to be the Imperial Mysteries of Requiem.

ATYoN is not terrible, simply lackluster. There's nothing really fundamentally different between regular vampires and methuselahs, no less elders.

I also prefer much more crunch in my sourcebooks. ATYoN, like Secrets of the Covenants, focuses far too much on fluff. The editing is also terrible and the stats for most of the npc inconsistent and/or don't make sense.

BTW, in the Deborah antagonist section, is Asher supposed to be Jewish like Deborah? Her faith is fundamental to her character as a Hebrew Judge, and Asher is supposed to be a direct descendent, but with all the character discussion about racial discrimination and his dreads, I wasn't quite sure?

What's inclusive about self-castration for Crúac?

Eh. I mean, you could be Jewish and not a white dude. I mean, there is that Korean-American Rabbi that was on TV as a TV show bumper a few years ago.

There is also entire population of jews of Ethiopian descent so Asher being Deborah descendant is kinda alright

Because OPP is full of self-hating trannies?

I'm running Mage the Ascension right now on regular Earth. There's still vampires and werewolves and the Umbra and Consensual Reality, but all the "Gothic-Punk" elements have been taken out, and the setting on a whole is much more optimistic. Traditions get along better, Technocracy brainwashes people less often, vampires don't control the government/media/etc [though they do have considerable influence, as does to the Order of Hermes and Technocracy]

I've always felt Mage does better in a setting that isn't try-hard gothic. If I was to run Vampire i wouldn't even include them in the setting, I'd use sorcerers.

>Eh. I mean, you could be Jewish and not a white dude

True, as the Ethiopian and Yemenite Jews in Israel can attest.

However, as Asher is supposed to be a direct descendent of the Bibilica Deborah,whose powers are fueled by faith, you would think Asher's appeal would be concerned with faith, not race.

It was a clumsy attempt at diversity with an npc for the sake of diversity and nothing else relevant. I have no objection at all to Asher's race in the abstract, but the racial issues appear little more than filling a ham-handed, virtua-signally, diversity quota.

I guess I should be thankful that the author didn't make Deborah, a quintessential and important Jewish female hero of the Hebrew Bible, into a transgender wicca lesbian.

>Technocracy brainwashes people less often

>Why even joint the Technocratic Union?

>I guess I should be thankful that the author didn't make Deborah, a quintessential and important Jewish female hero of the Hebrew Bible, into a transgender wicca lesbian.

As another user cautioned, don't give OPP any ideas.

Sweet cars, nice suit, good money, better women

>Sweet cars, nice suit, good money, better women

And ray guns, never forget the firearms.

However, you seem to be confusing the Union with the Seers.

By sweet car he probably ment one that turns into battlemech

I honestly really like that they walked back elders to make it clear that for as monstrous and alien they are, they're still people at heart. Weird, fucked up, distant, barely-there people a lot of the time, but still people. They've got motivations and personalities that make sense, they're just buried in centuries of blood and apathy and boredom and sociopathy. It's all fine and good to say that elders are just monstrosities that wear human-shaped meat puppets until you have to make that make sense in play, because past a point trying to characterize elders ended in the authors shrugging and going "they are unknowable and inscrutable so I don't have to make this make any sense."

I really, really liked almost all of the book because of that, and all the deep dives they did into how elders think and act and view each other/their lessers/mortals. However, the antagonist chapter at the very end was a flaming pile of dogshit, with prose that was howlingly bad compared to the average of the rest of the book and characters that were escapees from particularly uninspired oWoD supplements.

Like for real. Body of a Nation is, literally and explicitly, "Three vampires control the Bilderbergs as a false front for them having vague control of the world except maybe some even more vague spooky force PERHAPS THE JEWS??? is secretly pulling THEIR strings and killed one of them for getting too close to the truth" and their writeups are a bland idiot, an OC Donut Steel the author wants to step on their face, and a Nothing Personnel Kid, all with touchstones that explicitly don't count after the book spends like 40 pages explaining exactly what does and doesn't count as a Touchstone.

>when you have 5 benediction dots and can slap the shit out of most supernatural monsters thanks to them and planning

Though mages still scare me since apparently the supernatural resistance merit does shit against spells for some dumb reason

Whole point of mages is they're gods in human skin. Or was that Scion?

>That spoiler.

Tell it to the spoops who just planted all that CP on your computer, Padre.

Oh look, A VaSCU agent. Wouldn't he be interested in what you keep on your hard drive?

Jokes on you, with resources 5 I not only have lawyers, but black Jewish lawyers for just such an occasion.

Some of them had potential. I agree a couple were wall-banging stupid.

>the antagonist chapter at the very end was a flaming pile of dogshit

Don't be shy, tell us how you really feel.

The book is definitely inconsistent. My guess is that much of the problem stems from having changed developers mid-stream and then rushed production and release.

Nonsense, it's off to Gitmo with you.

>PERHAPS THE JEWS???

That's some nice immortality you've got there, it would be a shame if something happened to it...

>it's off to Gitmo with you.

Where is "supernatural Gitmo?"

My guess is that it's a bunker complex beneath Detroit or Oakland. What else could the conditions of those cities?

There's depressingly few memeable images when you google "Jewish Vampires"

Close, it's in Lansing. Generally used to hold supernatural serial killers, aka Slashers. Or Hunters with Endowments. Same thing.

Blood and bodily integrity is very important in Orthodox Judaism and mysticism. Vampirism would be anathema to Judaism.

Jews are more likely mages or fallen world sorcerers who hunt vampires.

Also, check out Dvora in ATYoN. I imagine most vampires would be terrified if they knew they were hunted by an actual resurrected Biblical Hebrew Judge with superpowers.

If we're talking about what /pol/ thinks of the Jews, then the Jews are basically Seers of the Throne

I'm 70% certain she's a quintessence being hidden in plain sight..

I liked Ezekiel. :-/

>Body of a Nation is, literally and explicitly, "Three vampires control the Bilderbergs as a false front for them having vague control of the world except maybe some even more vague spooky force PERHAPS THE JEWS??? is secretly pulling THEIR strings and killed one of them for getting too close to the truth"

It isn't the Jews. Its the Maa-Kep. The Bildeberg Group is run by the Maa-Kep who also use it as a once a year social gathering. This is I think the closest that the book gets to acknowledging mummies who I feel kind of like should have warranted an antagonist crossover writeup. And why did werewolves get shafted on that too, for that matter?

Anyway point is, fuck yeah mummies

>If we're talking about what /pol/ thinks of the Jews, then the Jews are basically Seers of the Throne

And also apparently Phil "Satyrdouche" Brucato (and a host of other far-left WW writers and fans) given his comments about why those nasty, evil Zionists Lions of Zions might be so offensive if included in M20.

I never quite understood why so many on the left laud and lionize illiberal groups, particularly in the Middle East and Africa, who would kill them or worse without a second thought, yet Jews, a tiny historically discriminated ethnic and religious group, who are also generally socially and politically liberal, are the source of such vitriol (and "Jews" and "Israelis" are used interchangeably in most discussions and literature until called out).

Because they're fucking retarded and got brainwashed by Arab academics like Edward Said rather than actually trying to understand history on their own.

Not coincidentally, he also essentially founded postcolonialism and introduced deleterious postmodernist ideas into the West.

Because it is very easy to paint the Israelis as an evil imperialist state and they ayyrabs as poor oppressed people.

Lefties completly ignore the fact that all the palestinians would have to do is show serious and lasting willingness to be peaceful. And that the IDF actually tries its best-within reasonable limits- to not fuck up the civies.

Oh and the fact that while able to the ayyrabs declared war over and over again. Now that they are unable to everyone acts like Israel was the aggressor all along.

>I liked Ezekiel. :-/

His write-up seems to indicate he arose as a revenant, with no explanation of being uplifted as an Akhud.

It's also interesting that the author chose the name of a Hebrew Biblical prophet as someone who was basically a whore of Sodom.

A meeting between Ezekiel and Dvora would be "memorable."

Israel gets a bad rap for literally being a country attempting genocide on a people as well as eugenics and land grabbing after being a state formed specifically because of World War 2

What's it like being this deluded?

Carthians are great. They're what the Anarchs should have been. Vampires from different ages all experimenting with various non-fuedal systems of governance and collecting that data to cross reference.

Want to play a Carthian who is a police state dictator? Go for it.

Want to play a mercenary who's experiment is "the man who'll do anything for a boon"? You can do that too

Heck there was a Carthian "Prince" in our game who declared the traditions null an void for a few months as a control experiment.

>Israel gets a bad rap for literally being a country attempting genocide on a people as well as eugenics and land grabbing after being a state formed specifically because of World War 2

If Jews are so damned omnipotent, they've done the absolute worst job at "genocide" in the history of mankind.

People also seem to forget and ignore that Arabs number in the *billions*, control multiple countries and wide swaths of geography, any by even remotely modern standards, and irrespective of Israel and the Jews, shockingly illiberal, undemocratic, bigoted and discriminatory toward virtually anyone not a male Muslim Arab, and with a incredibly violent history than spans centuries through today, including support for Hitler and the Nazis.

My blood boils when the supposedly "diverse" and "inclusive" left, who purportedly abhors discrimination of any kind, mostly manages to turn a blind eye when Jews are the target of discrimination, harassment and violence, and I mean Jews, not Israelis, as the phenomena is quite apparent in commentary and action in much of Europe and its Jewish population.

>Carthians are great. They're what the Anarchs should have been. Vampires from different ages all experimenting with various non-fuedal systems of governance and collecting that data to cross reference.

That's not remotely edgy and counterculture enough for the the old WOD.

>A meeting between Ezekiel and Dvora would be "memorable."

My money's on the resurrected superwoman who bats for the team whose captain leveled Sodom with fire and brimstone.

>don't fuck with granny

On that bit about the Nazis, did you know that the Syrian Ba'ath Party is the largest printer of Nazi writing in the world? They've translated all of Hitler's works as well as most of the Nazi canon into Arabic (such as The Myth of the Twentieth Century) and supply those books to the Muslim world.

You can play Demon without having to meddle with christian shit if you want

You do this by playing the objectively better version of Demon.

Demon: the Mathematician is pretty great overall, but unfortunately the God Machine is an objectively shitty literal deus ex machina. They did a terrible job writing the lore for it, especially as it relates to other splats.

Is there a Erretad version of V20 or a rules faq somewhere? I would normally not care but I am playing with a new group and would like to know more of the basic rules.

Thanks in advance

nWoD Demon takes away the christian schtick and actually takes the God Machine thing and the Matrix and a lot of strange reality bending horror imagery turning it into something really quite interesting. And I overall hated the God Machine thing until this splat.

Beast - because I truly love folklore and mythology, and was hoping that a supplement dealing with the monsters and heroes therefrom would be well, interesting and compelling. But Beast is not that.

It is trash. Intellectually offensive, outright offensive, pathetic and laughable. It is the authors'/developers' desperate outpouring of psychological angst in game form. I hate when people try to sum up things with simple labels like hipster, sjw, or whatever, but when a game absolutely reeks of Tumblrina idiocy, and lacks any depth beyond filling the bullying revenge fantasies of that narrow, shallow niche garbage, it deserves the label.

>Has a game just not meshed well with you?

I work with the mentally ill, and trans individuals are probably the worst human beings - and I'm even including addicts in that list, and believe me, they're terrible, but trans people just take the cake. They live to generate attention - positive, negative, whatever. Well that's not true, it actually seems like the negative is what they *thrive* upon, because the suffering it causes - not in everyone else, but in themselves, because that is the only person they care about, being narcissists through and through, is like mana from heave to them. They lie constantly, reflexively, and in ways that challenge people to call them on it, if not force them to, to create drama - and again that negative attention. They tear lives apart, torment those who love them, tear their own bodies apart - and relish the pain it causes their families', while at the same time using their families and friends's pain as a self actualizing persecution complex. In the end, they constantly and deliberately use their personal drama to disrupt the world around them, and then they blame the world itself for every problem they face.

So when you ask if a game has not meshed with me well - yeah. Prometheans. Because it was clearly written to feed upon and cater to either the authors' or the trans crowd in the fan base. The core characters absolutely define the mentality of the worst trans attention whores out there - the "I was made wrong! Horrible stuff is constantly happening around me, but it's never my fault!!!!" theme fits their narcissistic-without-a-modicum-of-introspection-mentaility to at T and it just makes my eyes roll.

>It is trash. Intellectually offensive, outright offensive, pathetic and laughable. It is the authors'/developers' desperate outpouring of psychological angst in game form. I hate when people try to sum up things with simple labels like hipster, sjw, or whatever, but when a game absolutely reeks of Tumblrina idiocy, and lacks any depth beyond filling the bullying revenge fantasies of that narrow, shallow niche garbage, it deserves the label.

And that was the "improved" version after the outcry from the leak and Kickstarter draft, including desperate attempts to mitigate the pablum with setting addition like "teaching lessons." It's truly hard to imagine that OPP thought the Beast draft was basically done and represented a lynchpin splat tying everything together for crossover.

>RichT is creatively bereft and incompetent

How are changelings superior to anything? They're the mutated, broken, mindfucked survivors of decades of sexual abuse by otherworldly entities. And to top it off, when they finally drag their fae cum soaked assholes through the hedge to their homes, they find they've been cucked in every sense of the word by something that is so much better than them at being the person people wanted them to be that no one recognizes the fae fucked wreck they are face to face.

There's your changeling superiority.

Don't forget that they're also continually hunted by their captor and its agents. That should really help with the PTSD...

There is nothing, and mean nothing, good about the life of a changeling. Their powers are even mediocre, at best. I would rather be a vampire.

Werewolf. If you're Native American or involved with native cultures regularly, it's either grossly offensive or just really tacky and embarrassing for its half-random misuse of old words and concepts and the rewriting/cutting-out of cultures to make them canonically something completely unrelated or shitty. Most of all it's just a bizarre, pointless decision they made to even do that - much like the vampire story, people who are interested in the werewolf only want to explore its European stories and myths, so... they didn't need to and it suits nobody's area of interest, but I guess they were writing and lost track of what old monster lore concepts a werewolf game should be giving a representation of?

>A meeting between Ezekiel and Dvora would be "memorable."

Let's get ready to rumble...

Is there any actual merit to M20 BoS?

Oh I know that it is stuffed with more of the same Phil shit and I've seen the screenshots of the FAQ. I get that it is crap. However I'm in a M20 game and want to know whether the book is at all useful for the updated and expanded traits and other crunch. Do I snag a copy for my GM to peruse? I have a high tolerance for rants about organic hummus as long as there are a few nuggets of rules to make the game more fun.