Can we take a brief moment to address the Anti-D&D trolls?

Can we take a brief moment to address the Anti-D&D trolls?

There's really no point in beating around the bush, or falling for their attempts to pretend they're anything but dedicated trolls. While they genuinely dislike D&D, their main focus is to make any discussion of it as tedious, cancerous, and downright unpleasant as possible. With D&D being the most popular RPG system, that tends to make all rpg discussion taken hostage, since even the simple mention of D&D or something remotely involved with D&D is enough of an excuse for them to launch into their opinionated tirades in hopes of derailing the discussion. And, without an opportunity provided to them, they go out of their way to make threads just to troll about D&D.

This isn't saying D&D is a perfect game or that it is above criticism. This isn't a call to say that no one is allowed to dislike D&D, or that everyone who argues about it is a troll. This is to directly acknowledge the trolls, most of who hide behind anonymity, who are fervent and motivated in making RPG discussion on Veeky Forums an endless series of system wars, for no purpose beyond their personal amusement and their conviction that no one should discuss the game they hate except to express how much they hate it.

Ignoring them doesn't work, because they try time and time again to pass out bait until they catch some weak links, and worse still, even when Veeky Forums shows a measure of understanding and restraint, they will literally argue with themselves just to bump their threads. Argument fuels them, and the moderators seem to mistake what they're doing as something unmotivated and with no agenda behind it.

It's little different from the system wars that plagued /v/ until the mods went out of their way to ban repeat trolls and to otherwise reduce the amount of system war trolling that threatened to choke that board. When the mention of any game simply meant a set of trolls would go out of their way to derail the thread, the entire board was essentially taken hostage. Thankfully, the anti-D&D trolls are much fewer in number and are generally recognized as trolls, but even so, I feel like it's time to address the elephant in the room, and to encourage people to not simply hope that their hatred will ever run out.

Yes, it's bad to give attention whores attention, but these trolls need to understand that they're not fooling anyone, and that people are getting fed up, if they hadn't noticed already.

Cue damage control from these trolls.
Try your best to not fall for their bait.

GURPS is best

I like GURPS too, if that means anything.

>While they genuinely dislike D&D, their main focus is to make any discussion of it as tedious, cancerous, and downright unpleasant as possible.

The 5e general does fine. I think you are confusing the natural level of shitposting that permeates all discussion on Veeky Forums as part of some conspiracy.

tl; dr:
>Veeky Forums is a bunch of hipsters who lay into people for drinking Budweiser

Because D&D is essentially the Budweiser of RPG's*. Despite having no real outstanding characteristic compared to other systems, it's the standard through sheer ubiquity, and anyone who hates it doesn't have the balls to admit that, most of the time, it will do fine for whatever party you're hosting. It's not good, it's not bad, it's just there, and everyone who's coming will have had it at some point in their lives.

*This is a bit of a loaded statement, because I've only had Budweiser twice in my life. The local example would be Heineken, which is popularly derided in this fashion precisely because it's the most common pilsener found in the country.

I've never played GURPS, but I would willing to try it. I love AD&D, even with it's problems, since I play it the most and I was raised on it. I've only played 3.5 twice, and both times were horrible. Never played anything past that. Also like Rifts, even with it's problems. I want to play L5R but everyone calls me a weeb when I try to talk about it,and I can't even talk about Degenesis before all hell breaks out

>This isn't saying D&D is a perfect game or that it is above criticism. This isn't a call to say that no one is allowed to dislike D&D, or that everyone who argues about it is a troll. This is to directly acknowledge the trolls, most of who hide behind anonymity, who are fervent and motivated in making RPG discussion on Veeky Forums an endless series of system wars, for no purpose beyond their personal amusement and their conviction that no one should discuss the game they hate except to express how much they hate it.

But you've provided no meaningful way of telling the distinction. You are tarring everyone who might make a negative comment about D&D with the same brush, and this line of logic is more harmful to actual system discussion than the 'trolls' you claim to be attacking.

The idea that any mention of D&D must be kept to generals out of fear of being attacked by trolls elsewhere is exactly the kind of hostage situation these trolls would like to put Veeky Forums in.

Though, they have tried to troll the 5e general on numerous occasions. I assume that if people actually kept all mention of D&D to generals, the trolls would follow until even the generals wouldn't be safe.

This is less of a conspiracy, and more of just a few very, very dedicated trolls. And, it's no real use hoping to deny their existence, because even casual observation reveals them, and their repeated troll threads are flat out confirmation.

It is a conspiracy theory, because you're on an anonymous imageboard. Any assertions of identity you make is basically without evidence or rationality, and could easily be pure confirmation bias.

Veeky Forums is a place with a lot of trolling and bullshit. D&D is one of the games most talked about on Veeky Forums. Do you not see the logical consequence of that?

I'm convinced that I'm the only human that actually plays GURPS and the rest of you are just memeing.

So I should keep my opinions to myself because why exactly? Hell, I don't like D&D, never really posted about it one way or the other, but jesus wept if your post isn't massively entitled.

People hate stuff. People hate popular stuff more. People hate bad popular stuff the most. You're the equivilent of the guy defending fucking Coldplay. Sure, they're not the worst band in the world, but if that's all you listen to you're at best lazy and at worst an actual simpleton.

System wars will forever be a facet of this board. We've lost so much of the good stuff over the years - but people can still find their way into better systems from threads like this. So good day and fuck you.

Yeah, I love GURPS

There are reasons not to play DnD.

When somebody finds one of those reasons and asks how it can be fixed, the answer is often to play something else.

The same applies to most systems, but DnD is the most played.

What about that do you contest?

Nice to see that I'm not the only Rifts player on the board! Any good stories?

Is rifts the one with occupational character classes? Because if so I read that acronym and immediately put it down and moved onto something that sounded less like a tax form.

>But you've provided no meaningful way of telling the distinction.

It's actually pretty simple to spot a troll. If a person is criticizing D&D but treating it fairly, they're not a troll. "Fairly" can be defined by not pronouncing it to be the worst system of all time, or claiming that no one should play it, or many other hyperbolic bait statements trolls employ.

For the most part, I thought most people were pretty good at spotting trolls, considering how they tend to be called out as such in most discussions and for making threads like "When did you realize D&D was garbage?". If you really think the trolls are doing a good job at disguising themselves, I'd say you are really extending them far more of the benefit of the doubt than they've earned through their repetive and simple-minded trolling.

>without evidence or rationality

On an anonymous board, we are forced to come to our own conclusions. Sometimes, however, it's very simple, with the trolls falling into very obvious patterns.

Or, are you hoping to try and claim the "When did you realize D&D was garbage?" are not made and bumped by these trolls?

I think we are well past the point of even pretending that these trolls are not committed, and well past the point where even their best attempts at dismissing these accusations will really do anything. On Veeky Forums, we're expected to allow people some measure of the benefit of the doubt and to suspend our disbelief, but what you are basically asking people to do is to ignore something as obvious as a daily troll thread. That's basically asking people to be stupid.

The problem with the "have you tried not playing D&D" is that people use it more often than not when playing a different system wouldn't solve anything.

Few problems discussed on this board can be solved just by switching systems, largely because at the end of the day, the system is actually only a small component to the game that's being run, and that switching systems just leads to a new veneer on the same old problems.

"Try X system" is not always bad advice, but it's not particularly helpful in a thread about problem players, or about story issues, or even alignment arguments, because even in the last case it's just a name (or a different name) for things you'll find in find in almost every other game. Even games "without" alignments still have degrees of morality to them or factions with codes of conduct, and most alignment arguments typically revolve around these two features of alignment.

Does D&D have flaws? Certainly, but most of these are remedied in far less time than it takes to learn a new system, and the idea that you should abandon a system just because something didn't work out is why we find a lot of people hopping through multiple systems hoping that a change of game will solve their problems.

Most of the whole problem with system discussion is that it's actually political in nature. Play X game or play Y game is a tactic to try to garner support for one game or dissuade people from playing another, and is largely dishonest in its lack of transparency. D&D becomes a target not because it's a bad game by any measure, but because it's popularity means people are less inclined to play other games.

As a person who has played his share of everything under the sun and now plays homebrews almost exclusively, I've really gotten tired of people claiming system superiority or inferiority when they're all just talking about the same inferior games just under different disguises.

If only they knew how amazing Duck in the Circle was.

Rather than it being a dedicated group of trolls, I just assumed it was garden variety shitposting and moved on, rather than obsessing over it.

I swear I've seen almost this exact post before, and it was just as stupid then as it is now.

Yeah that's the one. It's just a different approach to the idea of classes. Basically your class is based on your character's job/occupation, the idea is fairly outdated but you can get some really interesting characters out of it.

I'm glad we're having this thread now, because it's good for you to recognize that this isn't "garden variety" shitposting.
In fact, there really shouldn't be anything like "garden variety" shitposting, because shitposting of any kind isn't something anyone should encourage.

They're trolls, plain and simple, and trolls really only belong on boards like /b/ or /r9k/. While it would be excessive policing to try to get rid of every troll or to stop every and all manner of shitposting, it's often necessary to address it when it gets out of hand.

Daily troll threads is the line that's been crossed. I don't think it's too excessive to now say that these trolls have moved even beyond what you would like to call "garden variety" shitposting.

It's a copypasta.

Except it's nothing new, and nothing different to what we've been seeing for years? The biggest threads like 40k and MtG get the exact same shit, and you deal with it rather than freaking the fuck out over it.

If people want a thread to bitch about a game you like... So fucking what?

I think that its still a useful thing to suggest, as DnD has pretty much every problem it could have while remaining functional and popular. Its a bit on the chunky side, fairly arbitrary, and streamlined in haphazard ways that can make it bothersome to play sometimes.

You're right though, most people are making bad suggestions. Personally, I reserve the right to ask if somebody has tried something different, because there are tons of simple, easy to learn systems out there that do everything DnD does better. I dont expect somebody to learn (fucking) GURPS or Shadowrun (which I consider to be genuinely unplayable), but I do expect people to grow out of their training wheels eventually.

>The biggest threads like 40k and MtG get the exact same shit

Can you direct me to the daily "When did you realize MtG was garbage" thread? I'd also like to see people asking "Have you tried not playing 40k?" in every thread where 40k is mentioned.

Ive played games with a similar strategy that work really well, they just didnt have an autistic series of acronyms.

Ugh, I cant believe I fell for copypasta.

>While they genuinely dislike D&D,
Look guy, the people posting identical anti-D&D threads daily aren't the same people that were levying harsh criticism against D&D a few weeks ago. The former group saw how rustled people got at the latter and started shitposting easy bait.

What makes it stupid? It point-by-point explains why that meme is overused and is more system politics than actual advice.

Because it's factually incorrect at best, a straight up lie at worst. It was a weak argument even before it started to get copy/pasted.

But D&D is the worst system of all time! No one should play it!

Actually, now that I think about and have had the hyperbole out of my system, Dark Heresy is the worst system of all time. At least in D&D there are fewer dice rolls before you eventually arrive in the "nothing happens" square on the flow chart.

>The problem with the "have you tried not playing D&D" is that people use it more often than not when playing a different system wouldn't solve anything.
More often than not, people are generalizing about shit that "all fantasy RPGs do" when pointing out something specific to D&D and anything which imitates it. E.g., caster supremacy. You could houserule a whole bunch of shit, or you can play a game which doesn't divide things into mundane feats and godlike reality warping.

Given that shit like FATAL and RaHoWa exists, it's hard to give anything the 'Worst system of all time' label, unless you're restricting it to professionally published commercial systems which were actually sold and supported. And even then, there's been far shittier products than DH on the market.

Is this the same guy in every thread or does every GURPS player have this fucking meme frog saved?

I find 5E to be both ubiquitous and mediocre so it's easy for me to hate, the "when did you learn DnD was shit" guy is a pain in the ass though

5e is more meh than it is hateable. An incredibly bland game whose design played it safe almost to a fault. Still, I can't exactly call it a bad product since given its sales it's exactly what the core D&D demographic wanted.

Then again, over the past few months I've seen more and more complaints about the lack of depth and complexity it has, and the lack of content, so at least some portion of the fanbase grew weary of it. Maybe it'll encourage them to actually include some interesting design ideas next time.

I'd say it's a very strong argument, largely because yes, it is overused to the point of it being a forced meme, and yes, it is more for system politics than it is advice. 9/10 times, it's used in exactly the way described, where a person spams the image simply whenever the topic of D&D is broached. Hell, not even a "have you tried this system?", simply "Don't play D&D and all your problems will be solved."

>Can you direct me to the daily "When did you realize MtG was garbage" thread?

you're really getting hung up on those threads

your original post made it sound like these phantom trolls are going into good, honest threads and turning them to shit. but your only proof are threads obviously created from the outset to troll D&D, and the 5e threads are chugging along just fine. so why not just ignore the troll threads?

DnD isn't bad, it's just far from universal in what it can handle, people that really want to run a game outside DnD's niche (which varies by edition) should use a different system

>Does D&D have flaws? Certainly, but most of these are remedied in far less time than it takes to learn a new system

This in particular is the fundamental lie that causes it all to fall apart, asserting that other systems are hard to learn (when often this isn't the case) while D&D's problems are easy to fix (when, given that things like caster supremacy are still discussed and argued about, it's quite clearly not the case)

And that's aside from the fundamental falseness of it. Most of the time when I see people suggesting other systems, it is specifically because they avoid a D&Dism which is causing the problem. I have yet to see these endless examples of system recommendations as 'system politics' rather than sincere attempts to help people find something more suitable for the premise they want to run.

D&D isn't a bad game, but it's a narrow game. Fantasy adventuring? Sure. For everything else you're better off using something else.

D&D a shit, and so is your face.

>Shadowrun (which I consider to be genuinely unplayable)

So true... I think the only way to play it is to eliminate half the actions in game and handwave a lot of stuff.

>your original post made it sound like these phantom trolls are going into good, honest threads and turning them to shit

But, they do. Even just a casual look into just about any RPG discussion will reveal these trolls, though they're often ignored. The "Garbage" threads are just being brought up to absolutely debunk the rather pathetic attempts to pretend that these trolls don't exist at all, since even though defining trolls is in the realm of subjectivity, even the worst of these trolls couldn't form an argument to try and dismiss those threads.

They overplayed their hand, and are being called out on it.

I play GURPS but not as often as I'd like. It's my preferred system when I'm gming though.

Report troll threads and posts, sage if posting in a troll thread, don't reply to troll posts, don't get mad at sincere criticism of DnD due to trolls

I've only ever played Shadowrun 4e, but I did find it kinda overwhelming. A few system veterans had to do a lot to help me figure it out, make my character and so on.

It's weird. The setting and premise is really cool, but it doesn't seem like any version of the system is actually considered good, just various different flavours of bad.

Your fundamental misunderstanding is the notion that trolling requires sincerity or commitment.

There is no conspiracy. There are people who post shit because it gets a reaction and they think it's funny.

The best way to play Shadowrun is to keep the fluff but run GURPS instead.

Eh, I've never had any interest in GURPS. I can see why people like it, but the mechanics just seem really dull to me. I get they can do a lot of things, but they have no real identity or interesting ideas of their own, which is a part of the experience I really enjoy in RPGs.

>The setting and premise is really cool, but it doesn't seem like any version of the system is actually considered good, just various different flavours of bad.

That sentence also summarizes my exact opinion of Shadowrun.

I love the setting, the premise and theme of play. But the rules... the mechanics... it's just a tragedy.

What is GURPS anyways that it can allegedly do anything? Can one of you GURPS prophets link me the main manual of the current version or something?

>Any good stories?
Not good with stories but we played an awesome campaign of "The Iron Heart defends against Calgary and their demon hordes". We all died in the end, but the rest of the Coalition States came and saved the day. was super fun and the biggest highlight for my character was killing 3 Baal-Rogs in a damaged glitterboy with a vibro-blade as my only weapon.

>(when, given that things like caster supremacy are still discussed and argued about, it's quite clearly not the case)

But, that has multiple easy fixes. Multiple. Making it clearly the case that it's easy to fix, depending on what exactly your issue with caster supremacy is.

Even something like alignment gripes have easy fixes, including something as simple as "don't use alignment."

Yes, some systems are very quick and easy to learn, but most of the common D&D flaws that people complain about do have easy fixes, ranging from official variant rules for people who don't like HP, simple common-sense fixes for things like capped falling damage or other not-every-foot-fits general rules that don't apply to every possible situation, or dice substitutions and blanket-math equations to remedy mechanic complaints.

Calling D&D a narrow game also shows your lack of experience with how broad people have been using it for decades. Fantasy Adventure? That's such a broad phrase, that I don't really think you appreciate just how much falls under that umbrella.

>And that's aside from the fundamental falseness of it. Most of the time when I see people suggesting other systems

The fundamental falseness is that you're pretending they're suggesting other systems most of the time. Most of the time, they're just pleading for people to stop playing D&D, a naked image post or otherwise simply spamming the phrase, without actually providing any system recommendations.

Your fundamental falseness seems to stem from largely just you not liking the system, and trying to defend people who are hoping to just use a spammed meme to turn people away from it. Sorry that I have to be so blunt, but that's what it seems.

>But, that has multiple easy fixes. Multiple. Making it clearly the case that it's easy to fix, depending on what exactly your issue with caster supremacy is.

There really fucking aren't. If there were, there would be a common consensus.

The closest thing is 'Play tier 3/4 with proper content restrictions', but that isn't a fix, that's a band aid which excludes a huge amount of content and puts a lot of extra work on the GM.

Read GURPS lite, which is free and a quick Google away. That should give you the main idea. The dozens of books just provide extensions of the rules for nearly every setting and type of game imaginable.

Trolling doesn't require commitment, true. But these particular trolls are committed, with their daily and bumped "garbage" thread being undeniable proof, with how much they troll otherwise being admittedly subjective, but it being rather foolish to extend to them the benefit of the doubt anymore.

Ahh, so you're a D&D anti-troll, I see.

I like D&D just fine. Every edition has its problems, but it works well as a fantasy adventuring game- Because that's what it is and what it's good for.

But acknowledging the flaws that exist and not treating it like a generic system (which it is not and has never been) apparently makes me a hater who just doesn't want people to play D&D, because that lets you completely avoid actually engaging with my arguments.

You have no evidence to support that.

And if you take Occams Razor into account, 'random shitposters noticing it gets a reaction' seems a lot less complex than a small group of dedicated anti-D&D trolls as you keep trying to push.

We do. All two of us.

>There really fucking aren't. If there were, there would be a common consensus.


There really are though. It's just that "caster supremacy" is a not a narrow subject, and different people have different things they like and dislike about it, which leads to different fixes and solutions. Expecting something like a "common consensus" for something like it is really just not appreciating that people have wildly different opinions and tastes, and is really a mark against you when it comes to RPG discussion. One common solution back in 2e for high level groups was to simply embrace all-caster parties, even though that's not a particularly popular option today. Still, there's nothing wrong with it, and it would do you good to appreciate that more.

And, as a small note, excluding a huge amount of content isn't really an issue for such a big system like D&D.

I both agree that this is annoying and does happen, but disagree that it is some sort of small group of determined detractors.

It's far more likely that people just enjoy shitposting and it is very easy to jump into any thread that's even remotely related and yell "Have you considered not playing DND?"

Take this example for instance

Just a zero effort driveby to bait responses, which it received.

I think the easy solution is for our moderators to enforce Global Rule 3 and ban people who post offtopic, flames, or troll-posts.

The next best solution is to just ignore them. It will stop happening it if it stops working. The people looking to get an easy rise out of others will switch to newer material.

Then list a few simple fixes for caster supremacy. Things that don't take much effort from groups and players, cater to a wide variety of playstyles and fully address the issue in all its myriad forms.

Because you said it's easy, right? So go ahead. Prove it.

Honestly a large part of the problem is that people don't nail down editions when arguing about DnD

You're trying really hard here. But, you're playing a game where you're trying to bluff after the cards have already been put on the table.

We've got trolls. Dedicated trolls. The kind that raced into this thread and stopped bumping the Garbage thread all because they are terrified of something as silly as someone taking a moment to address the obvious. Occam's razor? "A few dedicated guys keep doing the same thing over and over" is a lot less complex than "Random people spontaneously begin to mimic each other, with the same level of almost autistic dedication."

90% of the time it's 3.PF. 5e is too bland to draw many complaints, while the people who bitch about 4e are loathe to actually call it D&D. Meanwhile, despite their modern presence, the OSR crowd are a tiny minority of D&D players. 3.x was when the population really exploded.

...You realise that last phrase describes 99% of Veeky Forums meme culture, right?

May I ask something?
What's your favorite system? It would help me tailor the list to the options you would agree with.

I honestly have a bigger problem with 5e than with 3.5

>I think the easy solution is for our moderators to enforce Global Rule 3 and ban people who post offtopic, flames, or troll-posts.
While you're correct, this isn't going to happen unless they're all ousted and replaced with people willing to lift a finger to enforce the rules.

Give me rules for a low magic horror campaign

I'm not asking for a solution for me. You said it was an easy fix. You should know the main problems and have default solutions for each of them, as well as advice on how to mix and match them. If, y'know, it really is easy, and you weren't just pulling that out of your arse.

But for the sake of argument, let's say my favourite system is D&D.

Do you spend 99% of your time in /tv/?

It bothers me what a lazy composition OP's image is.

>elephant was clearly outside when the photo was taken
>shadows drawn by a retard in photoshop
>blur tool used like it's going out of style

Also which edition are you defending?

>Can we take a brief moment to address the Anti-Quest trolls?
>There's really no point in beating around the bush, or falling for their attempts to pretend they're anything but dedicated trolls. While they genuinely dislike quests, their main focus is to make any discussion of it as tedious, cancerous, and downright unpleasant as possible. With quests being one of the most popular Veeky Forums topics, that tends to make all quest discussion taken hostage, since even the simple mention of quests or something remotely involved with quests is enough of an excuse for them to launch into their opinionated tirades in hopes of derailing the discussion. And, without an opportunity provided to them, they go out of their way to make threads just to troll about quests.
>This isn't saying quests are perfect or that they are above criticism. This isn't a call to say that no one is allowed to dislike quests, or that everyone who argues about it is a troll. This is to directly acknowledge the trolls, most of who hide behind anonymity, who are fervent and motivated in making quest discussion on Veeky Forums an endless series of system wars, for no purpose beyond their personal amusement and their conviction that no one should discuss the topic they hate except to express how much they hate it.

Nice pasta, now kys

Not him, but literally every example I've seen includes three things:

1: High level characters
2: Skilled min-maxer player liberally interpreting rules
3: A DM who allows said rampant munchkin behaviour

I'm not saying the supremacy isn't there, but Veeky Forums has a habit of blowing it out of proportion and getting extremely asspained when anyone goes against it. Personally I've never actually seen an example of caster supremacy in the way Veeky Forums posits it in real life play. So even if the argument works for your group, well, it doesn't work for mine. And in the end I'm less interested in butthurt theorycraft and more in playing a fun game.

I'm not sure what you're aiming for, but I certainly miss having quest threads on Veeky Forums and hope that the mods allow them to return to Veeky Forums very soon.

This board is not as much fun since they were banished.

Now, I'm getting a strong sense that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, and are being hostile to the point where anything I would suggest would just be attacked without you really considering the point.

The different fixes are for different tastes, and don't work for all tastes. Some people like banning certain spells, others prefer changes to how rests work, others prefer things like E6 to alleviate what they consider the main issues of caster supremacy to be. But, you just seem hostile, and I'm afraid I'm not going to get through to you, regardless of what I say.

But really, tell me what's your favorite system.

People bitching about quests are honestly irrationally upset

you must be new here

Wait, is that the original pasta?

>The kind that raced into this thread and stopped bumping the Garbage thread all because they are terrified of something as silly as someone taking a moment to address the obvious.

have you read that thread? a lot of the posts there are pretty banal for a group of dedicated anti-D&D trolls. is not possible that threads on Veeky Forums are fluid and sometimes people start legitimate discussions in troll threads?

Wouldn't it be better of he described the type of game he wants to run rather than his favorite system?

That either means your GM is working hard to oppose it, or whoever plays a caster is intentionally not being a dick about it.

The problem is that it is easy, through ignorance rather than malice, for a caster to make other group members irrelevant, or to generally have a far greater impact than any other party member could possibly have due to the systems absolute focus on spells over all else.

I'm asking you to back up your point. You said fixing caster supremacy was easy, so fix it.

Let's say I want to run a high action fantasy game where every PC is equally capable of participating and contributing to the game. That can't be hard to fix, right? D&D is practically built for that.

>Can we take a brief moment to address the Anti-smut trolls?
>There's really no point in beating around the bush, or falling for their attempts to pretend they're anything but dedicated trolls. While they genuinely dislike lewdness, their main focus is to make any discussion of it as tedious, cancerous, and downright unpleasant as possible. With smut being one of the most popular Veeky Forums topics, that tends to make all smut discussion taken hostage, since even the simple mention of lewdness or something remotely involved with smut is enough of an excuse for them to launch into their opinionated tirades in hopes of derailing the discussion. And, without an opportunity provided to them, they go out of their way to make threads just to troll about smut.
>This isn't saying smut threads are perfect or that they are above criticism. This isn't a call to say that no one is allowed to dislike lewdness, or that everyone who argues about it is a troll. This is to directly acknowledge the trolls, most of who hide behind anonymity, who are fervent and motivated in making smut discussion on Veeky Forums an endless series of system wars, for no purpose beyond their personal amusement and their conviction that no one should discuss the topic they hate except to express how much they hate it.

this has some pasta potential

It feels like you're that anti-D&D shitposter who made another thread for maximum (You) yield

GURPS is good but it requires a lot more investment from the DM in order to make it work so it'll never be as popular as games that don't. It's a toolkit, not a finished game the comes ready to run. If that's your thing then great but if it's not then you should probably go do something else.

>Can we take a brief moment to address the Anti-Copypasta trolls?

>There's really no point in beating around the bush, or falling for their attempts to pretend they're anything but dedicated trolls. While they genuinely dislike copypasta, their main focus is to make any discussion of it as tedious, cancerous, and downright unpleasant as possible. With copypastas being one of the most popular Veeky Forums topics, that tends to make all copypasta discussion taken hostage, since even the simple mention of copying or something remotely involved with pasta is enough of an excuse for them to launch into their opinionated tirades in hopes of derailing the discussion. And, without an opportunity provided to them, they go out of their way to make threads just to troll about copypasta.

>This isn't saying copypasta is perfect or that it is above criticism. This isn't a call to say that no one is allowed to dislike copypasta, or that everyone who argues about it is a troll. This is to directly acknowledge the trolls, most of who hide behind anonymity, who are fervent and motivated in making copypasta discussion on Veeky Forums an endless series of meme wars, for no purpose beyond their personal amusement and their conviction that no one should discuss the topic they hate except to express how much they hate it.

>Ugh
BBEG.

Wayne here, my post will probably get deleted, but that's fine.

The main issue is that our degree of moderation is stuck in this limbo where mods will delete some bait, but not all of it, usually because mods aren't Veeky Forums, and thus don't spend enough time on here to recognize the local bullshit.

We either need more active mods on here, ones that will actually interact with the board to some degree besides deletion and bans, or we need less so that our thin-skinned posters can get some /b/ experience and learn to ignore bullshit. Sure, the board will be absolute Shit for a while, but it will give the board community to learn that mods are useless, and any changes to the board need to be done by us, not them.

I'm asking you what's your favorite system though. Let me see who I'm arguing with, so that I can provide you with an answer you might actually accept.

If you just want to argue seneslessly, you can go back to the garbage thread.

My favourite system is D&D as it was promised, a game of high fantasy adventure with a group of heroes working together, all valuable parts of the team.

Now fix caster supremacy.

If you can't answer their question, fine, but at least own up to that instead of beating around the bush. .

For the sake of argument CoC

If you just want to tell me that you're not coming into this discussion in good faith, you could have just said so.

I'm fine with you saying I'm dodging this question, because I will rush to admit I don't want to discuss the topic with someone so hostile.

One last chance though. What's your favorite system?

D&D. Now fix caster supremacy.

Why do you need to know his favorite system?

I'm prepping for my Saturday game right now actually. Taking a break really, but I've been at it for an hour or two.

It just finally resonated with my group and things are starting to go smoothly and beautifully. It's a real watershed moment. As for the rest of the thread, a couple of my players run D&as and I play in those. It's good to relax, but I'm not a fan of the system beyond being a casual player and wouldn't want to DM it.

Warhammer fantasy 2nd edition