Eldar at their height vs Humanity at it's height who comes out on top?

Eldar at their height vs Humanity at it's height who comes out on top?

Humans?

Both are pretty unquantifiable.

Eldar, they couldn't even be bothered to feel threatened by the mon'keighs.

Probably humans. Do the Eldar have thousands of nukes? Nukes from space, nukes from ships, from underwater?

Before the Fall, when Humans were on their golden age, mankind was barely a beep on the radar. It may be also due to them doing many drugs and ignoring the radar, but still.

DA ORKS YOO STOOPID PANSY! NOW STOP MUKKIN ABOUT AND FETCH ME MORE DAKKA!

>couldn't even be bothered to feel threatened by the mon'keighs.
According to the visions in the second Macharius books, the other colonies were feeling threatened by DAoT humanity, but the Core was too busy having their murder orgy to care (and ended up accidentally the DAoT humans anyway).

I don't think they are really comparable.
The height of the eldar (technologically, not culturally) was during the war in heaven, when they used warp entities for fighting and their tech came directly from the old ones. The eldar are actually surprisingly stagnant when it comes to technology, as most everything they use originates from the old ones.
Once the old ones died out and the war was over, the eldar kinda "lost touch" with their tech, as can be seen with them starting to worship the warp entities like khaine as gods, when originally they were psychic weapon constructs to be used by the eldar like tools. Ironically, the regression of their technological know-how is pretty ironic and quite akin to the same problem the Imperium faces currently.
However, while they were technologically stagnated (no noticable developements over the course of 6 million years), they did have quite a cultural developement, which did inevitably lead to the fall.
The eldar empire during the dark age of technology was the rotting remains of a once great people ruined by peace, deliquincy, degeneracy and arroant belief in their supposed superiority (just like the Imperium). All in all, they were still incredibly powerful, even at this stage in their history.

That part of the Macharius was edited out in recent copies.

>no noticable developements over the course of 6 million years

IIRC all the stuff aspect warriors use is relatively recent.

Necrons

Thanks, I feared for human-wank damaging the lore.

Cont.
The humans, on the other hand, were quite adaptable and very aggressively expanding during this period in time, both technologically and of course, colonizing the galaxy and all. Towards the end of the DAOT, humanity had probably colonized/conquered most of the galaxy, as evidenced of finding humans all the way out in the halo star regions or even in the "eastern" expanse of the galaxy (e.g. ultramar). The eldar empire had retracted back on to their homeworlds, to engage in their orgies and indulgence of degeneracy.

Another point is to consider that, if current Imperial weaponry is sufficient to take out and destroy the Eldar of 40k, then the DAOT tech should certainly be more than a match for them. The humans were capable of shitting out weapons of mass distruction in the billions due to STC's, and had a huge amount of resources and manpower to call upon during a war, not even mentioning the men of iron and the men of gold. Human DAOT tech, while definently not surpassing the Eldar in compexity or level, most certainly equalled them in destructive power and capability, while being far more crude and simplistic.
The reason the humans and eldar never had an all out war though, if the humans could beat them so easily, was the webway, which offered the eldar a distinct logistical advantage. If Humanity were to ever declare war on the remains of the eldar empire, terra would be destroyed within hours and humanities leadership shattered and thus leaving their powerful fleets and armies crippled and vulnerable. The human DAOT empire had very slow warp travel, like the Imperium, and so would be destryed by hit and run style attacks on their worlds by the eldar.

>We know from Deimos that the Admech have the technology on Mars to teleport a moon across the solar system into stable orbit of another world
>The civilization that likely created this technology, was considered a threatening only by the outermost colonies of the Eldar Empire, the rest couldn't be bothered to stop having an orgy to notice
>waaaaaaaaahhh human-wank!
Eldarfag sure are a sensitive bunch.

>not favoring humans over filthy alien scum
Inquisition would like to have a word with you, heretic.

I havent seen much Eldar tech comparable to the height of DAoT, i.e sun killers, planet eaters, system sized megaconstructs, single pilot craft that can 1 shot Imp Navy cruisers etc.

More of a "spiritual" developement than a technological one, trying to channel their feelings and minds to protect them from slaneesh. As I said, the Eldar did develop culturally, but technologically they were quite stagnant. Remember, the old ones built them, like the orks, as a tool too be discarded once they had fulfilled their use.

And Eldar are able to steal suns.

God that style of art is utterly disgusting. I hate everything that school of 40k cover art touched.

Necrons

And the DAoT may have been able to do that too. We also know that the DAoT could, in an environment where Imperial Ships could barely detect each other at void-relative point blank range, lockonto and destroy with pin-point accuracy a holofielded Eldar ship, by firing a black hole.
And in Death of Integrity, we know that DAoT ships are also capable of targeting, and destroying with a single-shot, fully shielded and operation admech warships, from the core of a moon-sized space hulk.
And yet, it's "Damaging the lore" with "human-wank" that such a civilization was "threatening", not "dangerous to", but merely "threatening", to the outer most fringe colonies of the Eldar.
Can you show me on the doll where the human fluff touched you?

This. Erik Morkai, the marine in the picture, is ridiculously massive, as in Primarch-tier massive. I prefer the old school marines from Rogue Trader.

But user, pic related wins

We barely know what Eldar were actually capable off, this piece of fluff isn't even from their height. Ever considered that you can name all these awesome sounding toys because the writing spends so much more time on the Imperium and all Eldar get is some vague "undisputed masters of the galaxy"?

It's not necessarily the height or size of him, it's the fucking proportions. The fact he seems to be a geodude with a peanut head and 20ft hosepipe legs. The fact that everything is swirling silver edgy spikes and that is EVERY SINGLE LAYER of the image from smoke to armor to skin.

It is absolute, cg rendered, shitfest nightmare. Ugly artwork.

Final.
So to summarize:
Height of humanity (DAOT) vs. Height of the eldar (War in heaven)
Eldar are the clear victors here, no contest. Controlling literal gods, being backed up with the most advanced tech of the universe (old ones), the best logistical system ever created (webway), and what were back then, human breeding rates and an entire galaxy of resources to fall back upon, these are no small feats. The Eldar would stomp DAOT humanity, they would be a spark in the explosion that was the war in heaven.

If we pit DAOT humanity against the eldar empire of their time, it becomes a much, much, MUCH closer matchup. In a 1v1, all human military assets vs. all eldar military assets, humans win quite easily. Their tech, while simpler, was more powerful, and their numbers FAR superior to those of the eldar.
In reality, however, the war would go quite horribly for humanity. The webway, along with the eldars stereotypical hit and run tactics would wear down the humans to the point of desperation. Key targets would obviously be command hubs, like terra, or logistical centers and manufacturing worlds. In the end, humanity would probably direct their final efforts to a final push into eldar territory, towards their homeworlds. Presumably, due to their numbers and military strength, the humans would obliterate the eldar empire, and take the seat as masters of the galaxy, take over the webway, like the emperor planned. However, it would be a rather narrow victory, leaving their empire in ruined tatters from fighting th only oher galactic superpower during their age.

Gotta give humanity credit, though, as while the Eldar never really developed any weapons or tech on their own, apart from what they got from the old ones, the humans managed to outpower their 60 million year empire within 20.000 years. I don't even want to know what humanity could have become if they had had 60 million years of undisturbed peace and prosperity.

Tl;dr
Eldar (WiH)>>>>>>>>>>>Eldar Empire (60 million years of peace)> DAOT Humanity=DAOT Eldar>Great Crusade Era Imperium>Current 40k Imperium>Current Craftworld Eldar/Dark Eldar

Necrons are somewhere near the top as well. So are orks, nids and chaos, but only with enough numbers. Tau fit neatly in the very bottom.

Fuck Eldarfags, tho.

Didn't DAOT mankind have Matrioshka brains?

Because the concept of "humans but better" is so dreadfully boring that no one wants to write it. Eldar are intrinsically boring.

Now that you mention it, yeah, i gotta agree with you.

Do you even understand the narrative role of the Eldar in this setting? Do you think "humans are better" is the height of creativity? Do you think "[self-insert-faction] is better in everything it ever does" is a great way to construct a setting?

“Lhaerial shifted her gaze to Veritus, and her hard eyes made him flinch as if she saw something in his mind and reflected it back upon him. ‘The idea appeals to your vanity? You were correct in what you were saying, through there. You are a tool to us. Our people ruled the stars when this world was ruled by reptiles. Many came against us – the soulless ones, the krork at the apex of their might, in comparison to which this latest folly is laughable, the cythor and a thousand other races so terrible your intellects could not contemplate them. Even your own ancestors and their unliving legions at the so-called height of their mastery. We defeated them all”

Excerpt From “Throneworld.”

There is this bit, but it's from the mouth of a captured eldar...

They literally coexisted. The Eldar were always more supreme than the DAoT mankind.

How numerous were the necrons during the War in Heaven ? Could they, at their peak, defeat the Tyranids ?

>the krork at the apex of their might, in comparison to which this latest folly is laughable
This is probably my favorite part of this, because there must have been a conflict between the Eldar and the Orks after they both lost their masters. And the war between them must have been bloody and glorious.

I'll put some of this on the Eldar arrogance and poetic exaggeration.

.....very interesting.

Nope, the fluff says that the Tau are technologically superior to the Imperium.

>Could they, at their peak, defeat the Tyranids ?

Quite easily considering that had ultimate mastery over all space and time in the galaxy at the time.

The Necrons in the War in Heaven vastly outnumbered mankind. Now after the Great Sleep, they are equally as numerous as mankind.

eldar are taller than a human on average

/thread

>Eldar (WiH)>>>>>>>>>>>Eldar Empire (60 million years of peace)> DAOT Humanity=DAOT Eldar>Great Crusade Era Imperium>Current 40k Imperium>Current Craftworld Eldar/Dark Eldar

You are retarded. The fluff is clear that the Dark Eldar and Eldar are way above the Imperium and they are the only factions that have some chance of grasping some basic concepts of the Necron tecn

Fucking lol.

How will Impfags ever compete?


....
>be me
>stand up
>wipe my eyes
>"I-I'm not m-mad"
>"T-this is perfectly fine"
>Single tear runs down my face
>"Why GW, w-why....."
>"sob"

I'm talking "all out war 1v1" power level, not tech level. Oviously Eldar/Deldar are way more fucking advanced than the imperium.

That doesn't mean that the Imperium isn't capable of crushing commaragh under its heal, though. If they were able to focus enough resources on them, that.
Reading comprehension, bro. Learn it.

Both were pretty even but Eldar generally had the edge.
We're talking Dark Age, user, not Emps.

Imperium has always been capable of winning 1v1 against anything.

Imperium wins vs most anything because all the stronger empires are dead.

My mistake then.

Exactly. But what specifically Imperium cannot 1v1?

>orks stronger than ever
>necrons rising
>eldar only weak because they shot themselves in the foot thousand years ago
>tyranids not stopped
>tau getting stronger
>chaos probably winning anyway
Did I forget anyone?

All the empires from before 40k, like the necrons, ancient eldar, great crusade humanity, DAOT humanity would stomp the imperium.
Currently? As says.
The Imperium could probably take on the guys from his list in a pure, 1 on 1 fight and win. (Tau, orks, Nid vanguard fleets, crippled eldar)
Logically speaking, though, Imperium definently loses in the long run.

>Throneworld
That's the novel where Custodes got their asses handed to them, by a bunch of Harlequins.

Take it with a handful of salt.

Meant to

If theyre at their height that means their not pants on head retarded and so they wouldnt waste their time fighting opponets on such a level.
Nor would they see any to fight against one another given the way the 40K galaxy is like.

>what is the war in heaven?
>what is the expansion of mankind during the DAOT?

Yes, agreed. harlequin porn. That's the reason I added the prisoner context for those who had not read it yet.

Still, wonderful to angry custodian fans...

also, Hugo Weaving as Eldrad...

>Humans unleash the Iron Men on Eldar
>Eldar get stomped by basically the Necrons Redux.

Does anyone actually think the sort of art in the OP is cool?

Any Eldar fluff book is usually a hilarious wankfest that reeks of Anime trash

Case in point, OP's pic with a fucking Katana.

But that didn't happen, at all.

...

>Until shortly before the Age of Strife, the Men of Iron were loyal only to Mankind, and served as their army. They came after the Men of Stone, but before the advent of servitors. In M23, they turned on their Human masters, believing themselves superior to the Humans who relied on the Men of Iron to do virtually everything for them. What followed next was an apocalyptic conflict known as the Cybernetic Revolt, a war so destructive it made the Horus Heresy seem small in scale. The Men of Iron employed world-consuming constructs, devices that could destroy suns, weapons that could throw entire continents into the heavens, and swarms of nano-machines that covered entire planets. However in the end, the Men of Iron were destroyed by an alliance of galactic powers.[3] It is unknown of this alliance was strictly Human.

I mean I understand Eldarfags don't actually understand the setting beyond 7th edition fluff from Eldar books, but the Men of Iron were a galactic level threat that would have made the Tyranids childish in size.

In a small small defense, if I remember correctly the custodes were basically naked and most of the fights where harlies kicked ass were 2v1 with a shadowseer and troupe leader vs a single custode repeatedly, so those line ups may make sense, but then we look at how I'm the hell did the harlies run into that many naked custodes that close to the throne and none of the custodes got the idea to team up the defense pretty much falls apart to silliness

Good thing this threat got defeated by

So the Harlequin confirms the Eldar were in the Alliance of Galactic powers that defeated the Men of Iron.

Good to know.

>Humans make faulty robots that turn against them
>Eldar don't even notice and party so hard the Human Empire collapses

Nice military threat.

>Need to join a Galactic Alliance to defeat them.

Nice Military strength Eldar Empire.

Where's the proof?

>Implying it wasn't the imperium asking for help and the elder were smart enough to think "hey sentient robots would be stronger empire than humans" to ensure their empires safety

Literally the fluff from the Men of Iron.

It took a Galactic Alliance to end them, Period.

>Damage controls because he wanks Eldar off That hard
>Tries to use an Eldar talking shit as proof Eldar are amazing.

As an Eldar player who loves HFY, this thread is giving me confusing thoughts.

>our ancestors were a million times better than yours!!!!1!!1!!!!
>get captured
Impressive, truly impressive.

>It took a Galactic Alliance to end them, Period.

A galactic alliance doesn't mean Eldar were involved. Infact the Eldar tells us that they defeated mankind and their unliving legions, so clearly they beat the shit out of the men of iron before they rebelled.

Maybe that's what caused their rebellion, they were so butthurt at their spanking they could only lash out against their masters.

>This Eldar Harlequin is totaly telling the truth
>And indeed, we believe this one Eldar clown over the recordings we previously had.

I think Put it best.

No contest

>>This Eldar Harlequin is totaly telling the truth

As much a reliable character as Abnett's shitty OC.

>I think
>Put it best.

I don't think he's even read the story, because the Eldar got captured on purpose.

Actually, it's impressive that less than 10 space clowns managed to storm the emprah's sanctum and get as far as the final door, slaughtering custodes left and right...

Even if she got captured, that is an incredible feat...

So incredible, that one has to take it with salt...

>I got captured on purpose
>I am totally telling the truth, for as you know my race is totally known for being honest and not manipulative and unreliable sources of infomation.

And here we come to the crux of the argument. It's BL books, aka, stuff you can actively ignore.

The Men of Iron were in the 3rd edition rulebook. Sorry Carnac, you're wrong.

And then a fuckload of Harlequins and also Eldrad got rekt by a single squad of Deathwatch.

Eldar wank, lol.

Eldar. Humanity's high point was the Dark Age of Technology and the Eldar didn't even consider them or even the Orks to be any sort of threat worthy of actual attention.

ITT:

>Altharius, which meant in the ancient inscrutable Eldar tongue The Most Elegant of Nobility in The Arts of Graceful Warfare and Majestic Pottery pointed his elegant weapon at the apish space marines, the squad ripped apart by a graceful hail of deadly shuriken fire, the advanced psycho reactive monomolecular wraithbone edges ripped apart their crude armor like a swarm of vengeful wraithbees defending their spirithoney from the starbears of ancient Eldar mythology.

>Still for every crudely clad clunky stupid clumsy monkey marine killed, a dozen swarmed in to take its place. Their clumsy boxcars puttered slowly towards the elegant firing lines of the most ancient eldritch elegant Eldar, blown away by graceful deadly brilliant lances of energy from the vengeful lances of the glorious guardian squad Thethaliusomis which meant in the ancient Eldar tongue The Squad of Most Righteous Invincible Unwavering Noble Craftsmen Who Craft Death as Elegantly As Their Earthenware.

>Altharius danced gracefully through the clumsy bolts belched by the marine's crude gun, if such a clumsy device could even be called a weapon, dispatching one after another with elegant sweeps of his monomolecular finely crafted gem encrusted graceful blade made from the psychoreactive wraithbone, testament to the Eldar psychic and technological mastery.

>A stray bolt shell farted through the air and struck Altharius upon his noble chest, but the amazing psycho reactive wraithbone armor of the Eldar which was as flexible as the most sheer silk elegantly shifted and hardened harder than the hardest of hardturtles of ancient Eldar mythology to deflect the crude monkeyshot, veering it into the face of another clumsy marine standing beside him.

>>I got captured on purpose
>>I am totally telling the truth

So obviously you've not read the story, because the only reason the Eldar were there was to deliver a message and they went full well knowing that they'd probably die or be captured.

>The Men of Iron were in the 3rd edition rulebook.

But your galactic alliance bullshit is from a BL audio book. So either you can accept BL in which Eldar beat their ass, or you can reject BL in which case Eldar never even bothered interacting with them.

Choose.

>Altharius then somersaulted through the air dancing across the sky like the great elegant hunting falcons of Eldar mythology and in his descent his elegant heel caved in the helmet of one of the crude armor clad monkeys and used the building momentum to spin cartwheeling towards the leader of the marines, a great ugly brute with crooked teeth and a lazy eye and ruddy wrinkly skin his crude armor garishly covered in seals and with the crudely banged out symbol of his clumsy god emperor scrawled upon his crude armor. The simple creature's dumb farm animal eyes widened in fear as the spinning whirlwind of eldritch ancient elegant destruction spun towards him and in a graceful flash of majestic advanced wraithbone he was cut cleanly in two by the elegant gem encrusted monomolecular edge. Its kidneys, backup kidneys, secondary kidneys, and deluxe double black kidneys all fell out of his body with a disgusting ploop.

>Their leader dead, the marines hopped back into their boxes and puttered away, but there would be no escape for the crude monkeys as their clumsy retreat was cut apart by an elegant hail of deadly monomolecular shuriken discs and graceful lances of light that cut through the air like the legendary glowwyrms of Eldar mythology which once aided The Ancient Mythological Eldar God Vaul as he got lost in the spiritwoods in the legendary mythologies of the Eldar's ancient past.

>Altharius was glad the war was over and looked forward to returning to walking the graceful path of the potter which staved off the temptations of Slaanesh but he walked a razor's edge between indulgence and the trappings of the path which the brilliant Eldar mind could fall to such was the tragedy of his people.

Or we can accept the Eldar was talking shit?

How about that Carnac?

They debate briefly, then the Farseers and Emperor sit down for a cup of tea and agree to stomp everyone ELSE first (except the Tau, they get conscripted) before resuming fighting each other.

Chaos gets rekt, Tyranids get swatted, Necrons decide to sleep in. Everything goes hunky-dory.

Except this is 40k, so things turning out well never happens. Thus, this result vanishes in a puff of logic.

Or that Abnett's OC is talking shit.

Yup, at least it's not a full curb stomp...

Still, it's a little less ridiculous than the throneworld scene, which is almost mont'ka levels of retardation...

So let me get this straight.

You're arguing that everything about the Men of Iron being this huge galactic wide threat is false, and instead, the Eldar were just so strong and uber powerful they could have dealt with the Men of Iron with absolute ease, but Eldar didn't need to.

Tell me then, if the Eldar were so strong, how did the Dark Age of Humanity come to basically own the Galaxy due to their supreme expansionist attitudes?

I mean I know the reason, I just want to understand how Carnac's fanwankery works.

>You're arguing that everything about the Men of Iron being this huge galactic wide threat is false

Yes.

>Tell me then, if the Eldar were so strong, how did the Dark Age of Humanity come to basically own the Galaxy due to their supreme expansionist attitudes?

They didn't. I don't think you understand quite how large the galaxy is. They didn't dominate shit. They were spread widely but thinly over it.

The Eldar were at that point inward focusing as well. They'd have no reason to stop mankind from spreading unless they tresspassed on Eldar worlds.

Carnac doesn't believe anything he says, you fucking retards. He's just a very dedicated troll.

Remember 'BLOOD FEUD"? Probably not.

The point is he will argue with anyone about anything as long as the opinion is unpopular.

He is rather pathetic.

The truth is we don't know how big the interaction between the Eldar and Humans were back then.

I always assume it was like Star Trek, and the Men of Iron were like the Borg in terms of uniting empires to combat them.

What if both sides have it right? DAOT mankind with iron men was 'defeated' by the eldar empire in the few battles they fought , but the rebellion required the grand alliance?

...

I think the eldar owned the galaxy in a de jure way by being known as the ascendant race of the galaxy but they didnt really leave the comfort of the core worlds unless you were atraveling craftworld an explorer or an exodite.

Humanity was expanding outward establishing influence but never challenging the eldar or doing anything that attacked the eldars influence, if humans maintaining order as the sole superpower of the milky way it was not because the eldar were to weak its that the eldar didnt care sicne they had powerful defenses and a life of luxury that made going out and smacking down primites( which never happened beyond some poor sods who got wrecked by Defense sentries) a non issue.

De facto humanity ruled the galaxy but in their wisdom didnt see a reason to go and attack the eldar for that title if the space elves would just do their crazy partying.

I always assumed DAOT simply avoided the Eldar worlds and few proxy battles ever amounted to anything due to mutally assured destruction, then the Men of Iron fucked it all up on Humanities side.

>I always assume it was like Star Trek, and the Men of Iron were like the Borg in terms of uniting empires to combat them.

You know what they say about assuming, you dumb asshole.

Careful, user.

You will reach BL levels of writing.

I think you're illiterate.