Is it just me, or is 40k way more entertaining if you cut out space marine factions entirely?

Is it just me, or is 40k way more entertaining if you cut out space marine factions entirely?

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Its me or 40k is way more entertaining if you cut eldar, chaos, orks, necrons, tau, admech, inquisition and leave only guardscum who shoot each other with flashlights?

>keeps tyranids
You are a fellow of patrician taste I see.

Is it just me, or is 40k way more entertaining if you cut out Only Human factions entirely?

You could name setting Spaceboat Soldiers or something.

I am 100% up for this idea. It sounds like pure gold.

Only name main hero Jose Enrique.

And then his hometown of los angeles gets destroyed!

cutting out space marines would mean cutting out space hulk

which is unacceptable for my continued enjoyment of 40k

Hear me out here-
What if instead of sending space marines into a space hulk...
We send waves after waves of guardsmen into a star-clump?

It's just you. Part of why it's so unique is because it was literally just fantasy ported to space, so you had medieval catholic knights in space and somehow it actually worked and was cool. Take that away and you have something that's no different than any other scifi setting out there. Space Marines are given too much attention I'll agree, but they are the soul of the setting itself

fun for a few games (Keep the vox alive! Send in another squad!), but terminators are ultimately pretty dang cool

youtube.com/watch?v=1oiom7L3Uj8

What if he start pumping space hulk with guardsmen until all genestealers die from pressure of corpses?

The worst part is original space marines WERE just mobile infantry, but then they became these weird space knights, instead of being CONTRA GUY.

Okay, it -is- pretty hard to argue with space hulk.
I mean, that's why I play space beast terror fright.

Genius! Then all we have to do is ship in mining equipment to get at the core of the clump through the corpses.

Then it's not 40k.

I like Starship Troopers/Aliens Series Space Marines way more than 40k, but there's no point in it being 40k without the Space Knights and Elves and Orcs and shit. Just read starship troopers.

There's only so much starship troopers and aliens.
And -especially- there's only so much AVP 2, 2001.

>What is Halo, Destiny, Call of Duty and other generic sci fi.

Not the same thing?

>comparing CoD to avp2
haha holy shit.

t. never read Starship Troopers

Also never watched it, apparently. Those don't match either.

Marine vs Marine is boring, and the Marine aesthetic itself needs a more apparent feudal influence which is why I prefer Grey Knights.

The setting is at its strongest when there's a high contrast. IG vs Nids, Tau vs Orks, Eldar vs Daemons.

Is it just me, or is 40k way more entertaining if you cut out the 40?

From what I understand the book is the penultimate armchair milifag wank and Verhoeven was making fun of them.

Yeah, and that's why the movie is dissapointing.

We just can't have a nice, good old fashioned, fascist movie without some neckbeard jew ruining it.
:^)

I wouldn't say cutting them out entirely makes them more interesting, but they are incredibly boring. So are any stories that involve any of the major characters. I like Space Marines existing, I just don't like them at all or getting any story. It's just nice having them in the background.

The whole Klendathu/Earth war felt more like window dressing for Heinlein to just wax lyrical over her imaginary military run Utopia....oh wait, it was. The entire book could just be boiled to down to why Democracy is bad and will lead to the fall of western civilization and how the Military should just run everything and it be all better.

That there is some neat science fiction stuff is more a sidenote.

*his

Don't know how that slipped through.

>what is satire?

You realize the point was to show how fucked up the whole society was right?

If we were talking the movie, then yes. The book, as written by the man himself? No, I do not think that was satire and really was just Heinlein writing a theoretical scenario where his ideal form of government works out.

Though I do want to hear how you think it's a satire. What are the signs that are evading me to see it in that light.

you didnt actually read the book i see.
you need to actually read the book and have your own opinion of it. if you allow turbo leftists to make your opinions for you, you are their slaves. and they get the book completey wrong.

its very good, btw

>why Democracy is bad and will lead to the fall of western civilization
do you really need someone else to tell you that?

I did actually read the book, and if I recall it opens with Rico performing a drop on a planet occupied by some alien race called Skinnies. Also warrior bugs with laser weapons and Gorilla-suit powered armored men with Y rack nuke launchers.

When the book does get into the nitty gritty of the tech the MI use or the grueling training that Juan Rico goes through in order to join, it was pretty interesting. That doesn't change the fact that it does veer off into him talking about politics from time to time. Making note of it is hardly wrong and the guy did have an opinion in the book he wanted to play out in a what if scenario. These two things can be in the same book.

Though, if I had to choose I'd still probably pick the Roughnecks TV series for going into the actual War the book doesn't really flesh out. Shame the early cgi hasn't aged that gracefully.

the cgi didn't age gracefully, but it gets so many kudos for having a militarized AI that isn't evil.

>turbo leftists

I'm guessing that's anyone left of frothing at the mouth fascism correct?

So it's safe to discard your opinion

>I'm guessing that's anyone left of frothing at the mouth fascism
incorrect. i am a classical liberal.
a centrist.
what you have to understand is that the postmodernleft has adopted a philosophy that is effectively an elaborate justificationf or being a lying shill.
its called deconstruction, and it has infested literary circles.
they are willing to outright lie about any 'text' inorder to shill against freedom.
also, postmdoernism is directly derived from nazi philosophy that is why you cant trust them. their interpretations of books are completely detached from reality.

the book does talk about lots of different topics, everything from spanking to politics, but that is not the primary focus or secondary focus of the book.

Except that removes the best part. Everything in 40k would be better if the weak humans were crushed and brought under the transhuman boot. Whether Mechanicus or Astartes. But both run shit with far greater efficiency than the mentally retarded mortals.

Everything in 40k is a monument to cascading endless inefficiency, though.

but the society in starship troopers IS a democracy...
you fucking retard.

But they aren't space knights. They're weird genetically altered super humans. If they were space knights they'd be a component of a feudal hierarchy rather than something tacked on the side of one.

>t. I don't actually know anything about postermodernism

You should actually read the works of the thinkers behind it, if you allow turbo rightists to make your opinions for you, you are their slaves, and they get the thinkers completely wrong.

>its called deconstruction, and it has infested literary circles.

That's not deconstruction. What you're talking about is literary criticism, and it's been around basically as long as literature has been considered a serious topic of study. Examining the underlying themes of literature to determine the meaning behind it has always been standard practice.

Deconstruction is a process of examining a text to determine the intended structure and unity of the language within it, it's basically an experimental process developed by Derrida to critique the notion of language itself; it's not some left-wing boogyman.

>to determine the intended structure and unity of the language within it, and then identity things that run counter to it.

Forgot a bit.

I think he's more bemoaning that this has been turned into a cudgel in recent decades by the aggressive elements of left of center thinkers. It's a study rife with the pitfalls of logical fallacies because it is in many ways subjective critique of art. Right leaning policy has historically more physically aggressive. There's no real stretch of definition that left leaning critique culture has taken an intellectually aggressive nature

Well, more accurately, it's a republic. But the idea that the military runs everything is a common misconception. Heinlein explains more than once in the book that people who are in the military don't get to vote until they get out- either from a term complete discharge, or retirement. And being in the military can mean a wide range of things. A guy who spent two years digging ditches as part of a terraforming project has just as much voting power as the hardest-assed Mobile Infantry general.

I usually let people run with their misconceptions, though. Helps me sort out the tourists.

Except it hasn't. There are some shit heads that have engaged in low quality analysis, and political opponents of the left have turned it and other philosophical processes associated with post-modernism and post-structuralism into a boogeyman without actually knowing the first fucking thing about it.

He also selectively ignores the polemics and brow beating from the center and right.

Wasn't it just ex-civil servants in general that were allowed to vote?

>That doesn't change the fact that it does veer off into him talking about politics from time to time

Good for Heinlein. Books are suppose to challenge your world view. I notice that you never try to refute Heinlein's point. Universal democracy is doomed to failure.

“‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death. Or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader. The barbarians enter Rome.”

Robert Heinlein.

Also I should mention that this "low quality analysis" wasn't deconstruction either. The whole point of deconstruction is to show the untenable nature of a single narrative with structured language due to the limitations of language, it's not some "let's see how this guy is a secret racist because of this book he wrote" technique. While Derrida was a left-wing thinker (most post-structuralist thinkers were) that wasn't the purpose of deconstruction at all.

Heinlein was all over the place politically during his career. He also provides no reason to think anything of the sort in which he writes there in your quote. History hasn't shown it to be true in the slightest; the most stable and prosperous societies on earth right now are all democracies, and Rome didn't have universal franchise when it collapsed; in fact it was considerably less democratic than it was back when it was conquering Carthage, Greece, or Gaul.

no, that's terrible

>most stable and prosperous societies on earth right now are all democracies

WTF?! Did you just wake up from a decades long coma? Universal democracy is in it's pitiful late stages. Socialist Sweden will soon be a third world country.

Don't listen to news networks and Alt-Right shills so much. A tiny amount of extremist violent crime is not going to bring society crumbling. Food and basic goods are still being produced and consumed, and there are no actual threats to any developed country to be had.

Gore aint allowed on Veeky Forums, user.
Or /d/.
I don't know anywhere outside of /b/, /pol/, and /r9k/ it is allowed.

Technically it's only allowed on /b/

/pol/ and /r9k/ are basically shittier /b/, but okay.

>Alt-Right shills
>A tiny amount of extremist violent crime

Let me guess. You say, "Islam is a religion of peace." Am I right? Say it.

yeah mon, because terror attacks are exclusive to democracies and no society has ever survived terror attacks? amirite

Generally it's easy to identify the shill because they start trying to post shock imagery on a traditional gamings board and throw around /pol/ catchphrases like "islam is a religion of peace".

Fuckin' shitposters cowering because some ragheads chimped out.

>shock imagery

They are pictures from the news. The real news. You are so terrified of the truth. You reek of fear.

>/pol/ catchphrases like "islam is a religion of peace"

Wrong. What is that? Opposite day? That is the mantra of the marxist left. And you didn't even deny it.

Did you know: Shots from the news are also not Veeky Forums content?
Can you please take your end of the world doomsaying somewhere else? I know you are so terrified you can't focus on anything but your impending decapitation by muslims, but we are trying to have a conversation about giant bugs and sueprpowered gene modded semi-eunichs over here.

Yeah, there's a bunch of unemployed muslim retards sitting at this cafe in Sweden. Every week some american tv-team comes to film them and they chimp out. Then /pol/ acts like the entire nation will collapse because of it.

They are space knights from a military order, they have chapter serfs so they are part of a small feudal hierachy, but just as the Knights Templars/Hospitallers didn't take a formal place in ruling Europe and only really ruled some peasents around their convents, the various chapters don't have a formal place in ruling the Imperium. With some exceptions, like the Tuetonic Knights ruling Prussia and the Ultramarines ruling Ultramar.

We might want to cut out the gene modded semi-eunichs.
They're sort of weird.

I'd honestly prefer 40k without chaos. Over the years chaos has just lost its charm with me and become boring.

Nids deserve better

As a species, we haven't ever come up with something better to shoot in space than bugs.
Nothing compares! Not even robots! And it's -really- fun to shoot robots!

All a republic means is that you don't have a hereditary head of state, it doesn't describe anything about a system of governance beyond this.

I sort of agree. I think that chaos has taken a far more important role than it should have. (this applies to fantasy/sigmar as well). I think chaos is a neat little concept but don't really like it as the main antagonist.

That's not what the dictionary says, but if it makes you happy, go with it.

Bug robots?
Necrons have those

>A republic (Latin: res publica) is a form of government in which the country is considered a "public matter" – not the private concern or property of the rulers – and where offices of state are elected or appointed, rather than inherited. It is a government where the head of state is not a monarch.[1][2][3]

Provided you elect or you appoint rather than inherit govermental positions you are in a republic.

Hm. I dunno, I never get to shoot necrons myself, so I can't quite tell how fun they are to shoot.
Wheras I shoot bugs and robots seperately all the time.

Yeah. It didn't matter what you did- they had to find something you could actually do; like, if you were a paraplegic, you wouldn't be joining the MI, but you could be a computer tech. But it's generally something that needs doing, but isn't very pleasant to do, and it's very easy to quit. So you would have a wide array of people, from college-educated technicians to people just out of high school, doing all kinds of stuff, but in the end, they all get the same thing at the end of the term.

It's time for you all to go home.

He quieted down user, don't summon him back.

Let me assure you Necrons are no fun to play against.

My favorite 40k days were my Orkz vs my buddy's Nids. It was a full 2 rounds of moving and spraying assault weapons until a hundred or so models got caught up in a glorious melee slaughter that lasted until the end of the game.

No, not play against, SHOOT at.
I can't think of any games that make me shoot zombie robots other than that fucking original xbox robot game that had junkyard bots.

And I haven't got to shoot at bug robots since old SNES games.

ZOMBIE bug robots, I've never shot at.

If you read through the thread very carefully, there's actually a few posts about 40k.

>reading

Nah, I think the game just needs to focus on them less.
It gets a little tiresome seeing Marines constantly getting tons of new shit when your army is still dealing with the same ancient kits it has been for years.

I am pretty sure you are a /pol/ infiltrator trying to make us read through all that shit.

Rome was hardly democratic when it fell. This meme needs to die. If anything, it's an example of how autocracies fail.

>>the dudes who hoard all the technology for themselves and the dudes who kill N number of recruits to make one marine are paragons of efficiency

Son, I have some bad news for you. You might want to sit down...

>I usually let people run with their misconceptions, though. Helps me sort out the tourists.

Trash philosophy. Glad to see you actively contradict it, it is retarded.

>>he thinks Rome had a universal franchise and that's what made it vulnerable, not years of internal political and military conflict and years of expensive expansionism

Turns out having a huge number of Hugos doesn't make you historically literate.

Who could have guessed?

It's not just you. 40k has far too much focus on the marine factions, and both their aesthetics and lore are pretty dull.


They look like they're clad in assorted wheelie bins. I don't care how much anyone's snowflake marine faction likes wolves, blood, feel a bit guilty, or whatever else. There's far too much overlap between the marine armies to argue they make a decent contribution to diversity of looks, lore, or gameplay.

They do have some important roles in the lore I'll concede, and I like them as distant and legendary angels of death practically never seen by people of the Imperium. Whenever the plot focuses on individual marines or small groups of them they're really dull however, and I don't understand the obsession with the Horus Heresy which is even more marine-focused than usual and just as badly written.

They're a really easy sell to teenagers getting into the hobby however for a wide range of reasons however, and make the lion's share of GW's income so they're not going anywhere.

When I started playing, SM variants were mostly irrelevant old booklets. They really missed the opportunity to let them be squatted in peace.
Hell, they could have been brought back as special WD content from time to time. As standard armies they are indeed redundant at best, when they don't cannibalise space for more variety.
I have nothing against using them in the lore though.

Yes. The Space Marines are boring as shit. The Imperial Guard is actually interesting to follow.

Maybe make it so that the only Primarchs ever made were the ones who turned traitor, so that the Chaos Space Marines are in fact the ONLY Space Marines.

Plus it would really hammer home how much of a fuckup the God-Emperor really is.

So the solution, instead of making more Starship Troopers or Aliens, is to reskin an entirely different setting into Starship Troopers or Aliens?

You scum deserve all the bullshit media you get shoveled.

>stealth suits
>fire warriors
>orcas
Shit, now I want to make a Starship troopers (book) gue'vesa army.

> UNA rather than Red Block
> Further proof that tau aren't communist

Go away chaos, no-one likes you

What if we just made Space Marines normal humans who survived so many battles and showed exceptional skill, so they're allowed to use much better, more valuable tech than the norm?

One of the key qualities of Fascism is the whole "one party system/no voting" thing. Whereas the entire point of Rico signing up for service was so he could earn the right to vote and hold public office.

It wasn't a fascist state.

That's Tempestus Scions/Stormtroopers who at least in crunch kick ass in the name of the God Emperor.

Nah, he was just looking for purpose in life and wanted to be in the navy.

Heinlein's world is just 1950s america with no race restriction and everything is magically alright.

I think some variety of cybernetic horror could do the trick. It needs to be both squishy and metal though.

At least not making them the focus again and again.
The Tyranids were going to be quite a threat now, but instead it is just more Chaos. Races uniting for fighting Tyranids would be fun.