Are there pistols which have the accuracy of rifles?

Are there pistols which have the accuracy of rifles?

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At pistol ranges, yes.
At rifle ranges, no.
If you need to ask any more, go to /k/, you cunt.

No offense, but you might have more luck with the /k/ommandos than you will asking the fa/tg/uys here.

My bad. I did not know that /k/ exists.

Not really. within a certain range they would have comparable accuracy but once you go beyond 100 meters rifles will start to be way more accurate. some of the greatest shooters in the world can hit targets with a 9mm out to 1000 yards but it's not easy in the slightest and they can't do it reliably.

> Are there pistols which have the accuracy of rifles?
You can always use a longer barrel, I guess.

at that point you are approaching becoming a rifle that fires pistol bullets.

No, the shorter barrel and greater vibration allows precision of about 6 minute of angle for a good handgun and around 3 for the very best, while a rifle can achieve sub minute of angle precision.

A minute of angle is 1/60th of 1 degree.

This means if you locked a weapon into a solid bench that keeps it aimed at exactly the same point and fired it twice, a pistol's rounds might strike 3 to 6 inches apart on a target 100 yards away, while a rifle's bullets could strike within an inch of eachother.

But back to your question.. well, yes. Some rifles do have worse then 6 MOA precision. A theoretical perfect shooter could get better performance with a good pistol then a bad rifle.

But you asked about accuracy.. rifles tend to be more stable and have a much longer sighting distance, and their bullets are generally faster. It's easier to hit a target at 100 yards with a mediocre rifle then a great pistol.

Speaking of precision, you missed /k/.

Hell no. Pistols are accurate out to 30-40 yards at the absolute most. Rifles out to a couple of hundred yards with ease.

At point blank range, it doesn't matter. Past 50 yards, good fucking luck hitting something with a pistol.

Accuracy is dependent on a number of factors, mainly barrel length, vibration, and barrel twist (the rate at which the rifling twists around the inside of the barrel).

This is why specialized target rifles look like space age toys with free floating barrels that are ridiculously long comparatively.

Not OP, but still an idiot, why exactly are minutes used for angle measurements?

Huh, I learned things today. Thanks user.

Because? They are called "angular minutes" because one degree consists out of 60 angular minutes.
There are also "angular seconds", where one angular minute consists out of 60 angular seconds.

Would you rather want it in radians?

I wouldn't tell a decent shot with a S&W model 28 to fuck themselves from 100 yards away. A good marksmen with most pistols can be dangerous at fifty yards.

Depends on how much do you love your dog.

not the guy you're talking to, but honestly yes

Is there anything this board isn't knowledgable about?

That's a good question. It's because a minute is a sixtieth of a degree of angular measurement. It's because of fucking Sumerians.

>Something something technically all modern pistols are rifles

talking to girls.

Yes the glock has an accuracy of a nuclear blast, which is 100 percent guaranteed to kill anything in the vicinity way more accurate than a rifle.

>accuracy

Within what range/distance?

>Speaking of precision, you missed /k/.

Chad here, I can help.

youtube.com/watch?v=hasipuR7-as

So what's with that exploding Glock meme? Around these parts I've never heard about someone complaining about a Glocj blowing up.

>this is the quality of posters we have now

I would assume that somewhere along the way someone at Glock cut too many corners designing/manufacturing a batch of guns and it resulted in a bunch of explosive misfires. For an example of a similar one too many corners cut situation, consider the Samsung Galaxy Note 7

He said talking to girls, not getting them wasted and taking them back to your dorm.

It's an old meme from a while ago when the first glocks in .40 came out, where the chambers weren't made properly and then cause the barrels to explode. It has been years since this very small issue (which was only a small number of them). This is just a meme for people to hate on glocks.

t. nogunz

It's just weird to me, because among the gun people I know Glocks have never been anything but reliable and good. Maybe they are full of shit, maybe I just haven't dug far enough, I'm just really curious if it's just memery or if there's something substantial. A few batches being crap is really fucking shitty, but it's not like it'll make all Glocks ever made spontaneously combust.

there's nothing wrong with glocks. its just a meme.

As I love my dog and am afraid of burning to death, I think I'll pass

It's due to people firing too hot loads like SMG grade ammo or their own experimental recipes. Then again ideally a good pistol should be able to handle SMG loads.

Obviously, then, he know more about talking to girls than you.

time to educate some fools

...

...

Yay education

>Speaking of precision, you missed /k/.

That's called a carbine, user.

Unless you're asking the ATF, in which case it's still a pistol as long as you don't put the "brace" against your shoulder and also I shot your dog.

Basically one of the early glock models had a slight flaw where it kinda deflagrated if you tried to fire a higher velocity round than it was really made for - the added powder basically caused the firing chamber and gas system to overpressurise, bits of it would then explode and shoot high pressure hot gasses at the operator.

>how much do you love your dog

What did he mean by this?

...

Dan/k/ meme about the ATF.

Now that I see the pic again I realise that even if you don't shoulder the arm brace, it's still a AOW and your dog is still in danger.

damn user. I was around when that picture was fresh. Fuck. my feels.

And you thought Veeky Forums was the place to ask?

1896 Mauser pistol with broomhandle stock

That's a carbine or short barreled rifle.

Pistols are rifled, so the distinction comes only from what you stick onto the thing. Not the caliber.

Welcome to Veeky Forums, newfriend. Make sure to lurk a bit and check different boards for a few days before posting - it will help you avoid plenty of mistakes and embarassment.

Someone post the gif where the guy has another mauser in the stock.

Yes. Only because there are some pretty shitty rifles out there.

A non automatic C96 is exempt to the NFA.

Some very, very old glock model was fucked up like that supposedly but nowadays Glock is considered one of the most reliable entry-level gun brands for a reason.

Only if both gun and stock is old enough for C&R. There are plenty of old Mausers, but most stocks are repros and technically illegal to own if you also own a Mauser. This doesn't seem to be enforced though.

Nope ATF said repro stockholsters are fine.

Mr. Mitchell,

This is in reference to your email (below) in which you inquire about the legality of affixing an original or reproduction shoulder stock to a Model 1896 broomhandle semiautomatic pistol. Your email was forwarded to the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) for reply.

However, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has previously determined that by reason of the date of their manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics, the following when possessed with an attachable shoulder stock, are primarily collector’s items and are not likely to be used as weapons, and, therefore, are excluded from the provisions of the NFA:

Mauser, model 1896 semiautomatic pistol accompanied by original German mfd. detachable wooden holster/shoulder stocks, all semiautomatic German mfd. variations produced prior to 1940, any caliber.

Further, ATF has determined that such firearms are curios or relics as defined in Title 26, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 178, § 178.11 and, therefore, would still be subject to the Gun Control Act of 1968.

>ATF has previously determined that Mauser Model 1896 pistols with reproduction stocks, which duplicate or closely approximate the originals, have also been removed from the provisions of the NFA. Copies of the Mauser pistol using frames of recent manufacture, with shoulder stocks, are still subject to the NFA.

If an individual possesses a pistol and shoulder stock combination that has not been removed from the provisions of the NFA, the combination would constitute a firearm subject to the provisions of the NFA. The fact that the stock was not attached to the pistol would have no bearing on this classification.

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Firearms Technology Branch

Quick meta-answer: most guns outshoot their owners. Shooting them from a vice tests the gun's accuracy and they're usually all ok, meaning any decisions you homebrew are supposed to be made with game balance first realism second.

Question: What is accuracy to you? How accurate a guy is aiming? What's his stance? How trained is he, how comfortable is the gun, is it custom? How far is he shooting, any optics, any bench-rest, specialized/match/handloaded ammo?

These are really really tough questions you'd need a d1000 system to utilize, and are mostly a big waste of time or a fun thought experiment.

The degree of accuracy a gun has as a hole-making tool, not fired by a human being but by a vice and string? With good ammo, they usually all great mang. Pistols are usually less accurate than rifles at >100m because of short barrel, caliber, velocity and so on. They also have less flat trajectories (bullet goes to ground faster, it's not about accuracy but this makes them hard to use at longer than 50m ranges).

Now, if you'd use a revolver with a stock and long barrel, we're bluring the rifle/pistol line here (they can be as accurate as a rifle in a similar caliber).

There is far too little info that you provided but if you get back and be more precise about what homebrew shit (stats, mechanics, balance) you baking Veeky Forums could be more helpful.

/k/ to Veeky Forums crossposting is my favorite kind of crossposting.

Veeky Forums used to be the only board you needed

I'm talking about what the gun is, not what the NFA defines the gun as.

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A pistol.
Thats all it is, you can act like an accessory changes what it is but unless your the atf it doesn't.

What defines a pistol to you?

7.5 BRNO

Kickstarter: the Gun.

I honestly doubt Czechia will ever come up with something to surpass CZ 75. Unless there's a way to weaponize alcoholism.

This is a pistol.

This is a carbine.
One can be used without the stock one can not.

Let's be fair guys, Veeky Forums could be conversational about anything, but /k/ knew and knows more than us about guns.

Though, OP's question is not exactly one which requires expertise...

But I could easily just saw the stock off of that and use it as a pistol. The stock being on it is what makes it a carbine, not the necessity of the stock.

There is more to making a carbine than just slapping a stock on a pistol things like adding a grip for the off hand

is this a carbine?

No, that's an abomination.

A sig brace flips from being legal to illegal about once a year to every other year.
You cant put a forward mounted grip on a pistol. Anything with a barrel that short is considered a pistol.
To put a stock on a pistol, you need to pay 200 sheckles and wait a year for the goverment to aprove you paying their taxes.
16 inches is a rifle. 15.95 inches is a pistol.
The ATF is known to shoot alot of dogs often in cages or tied up if they do their job and bark at the black clad man with the machine gun in their house

Its retarded but no its a pistol. The pistol wasnt designed to take a stock so its always gonna be a pistol no matter how much you bubba it up

There's kind of a missconception in this thread that stocked pistols are carbines.
There were C96 stocked pistols, and C96 carbines, both chambered in the same cartridge (don't remember what the non red 9 one was) but they were technically seperate. The carbine had an integral stock, not detachable, and a longer barrel. (see pic)

A little more grey is the difference between the artillery luger and the regular P08 luger pistols. You can call an arty luger a carbine, since it's stocked, and a long enough barrel to be considered a carbine, but its stock isn't detatchable, so I don't know where people want to put that.

Other than it's fucking cool.

And here's the Artillery Luger.

*IS Fuck, stock on an arty luger IS detachable.

Mods are asleep, someone post the Webley-Fosbury Autorevolver

The stock is detatchable and doubles as a storage container for the pistol.

My African American brethren.
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Wrong video.
youtube.com/watch?v=Va6KHE0jEFc

POW...
chk-CHIK!

Artillery Lugers are one of the few guns where you can take a pistol and just slap a stock on it in the US, they've been granted a fairly narrow exemption.

Most pistols will become Short Barreled Rifles, which are regulated the same as suppressors or guns larger than .50 BMG. if you put a stock on without also increasing the barrel length past 16 inches. Barrel length is only good for velocity- a longer barrel is not better for accuracy simply by virtue of being long, but it does give you greater range because the bullet goes farther for the distance it's falling.

Pistols can be extremely precise at shorter rangers though, particularly Olympic style target shooting pistols. If you put a .22 LR target pistol and a target rifle in the same caliber into bench vises and put scopes on them, it will have slightly more drop over distance in the pistol but it will be otherwise just as accurate.

However once you're talking practical shooting, holding stocked rifles steady is hard but it's much easier than with pistols. Rifles can chamber rounds that are much flatter shooting and are more aerodynamic, so they can be more accurate at long distances. Scopes on a pistol are a long distance away from your eye and have to be smaller and lighter. Finally, pistols are generally not made to the same accuracy standards because due to the above, it generally isn't worth bothering.

I wonder how much inspiration they took from the Zig-Zag.

youtube.com/watch?v=UzSXvhGdfzo

>To put a stock on a pistol, you need to pay 200 sheckles and wait a year for the government to approve you paying their taxes.

That's dumb, what potential threat are they hoping to curb? That the weapon is now a less concealable handgun and a less effective rifle?

A pistol is worse than a gun in every way except for in size/weight and concealabilty.

A shorter barrel means less directing capability and less pressure which means slower, more arching, less powerful and inaccurate projectiles.

Smaller rounds means less force.

But you can always go "shit's magic yo"

Ask the atf they have been told they are retarded by the courts a few times, such as with the no adding another grip to a pistol the courts have told the atf that a extra grip does not change a pistol into something else but that will not stop them from shooting your dog and arresting you just you will probably not go to jail if thats all they arrested you for.

>Smaller rounds
Should mention more specifically less room for propellant, because pistol bullets are generally heavier than rifle bullets. KE = 0.5*m*v^2 so velocity is the killer.
Do note that this does mean pistol rounds perform better in some niche scenarios such as .45 slugging right through multiple layers of drywall while 5.56 quickly loses its lethality as it fragments or its velocity gets bled off.

And an absolutely average shot with a rifle can hit bull's eye at 100 while being first time on shooting range, so?

Like vast majority of "this gun is shit" memes, it comes from a really, really old article about the very first batch of faulty gun X. In this case, it was a problem with chamber size toward ammo used in first... I don't know... 500 pistols? They quickly figured out what's wrong and fixed that, but the meme is present ever since. It's the same way how all the guns coming from the very first model of M-16 are considered shit, because the very first model was shit. It's 50 years later, the meme stays. Or how bunch of old French rifles hit US market in early 60s, so all gun magazines wrote really bad reviews for them and to this day everyone thinks French guns are shit, based on that handful of reviews.
If anything, /k/ommandos are pretty stereotyping bunch and it takes a lot of effort and dedication to break certain stereotypes and memes. For example, there've been made countless tests of AR-15 rifle durability, which (as long as the dust cover is closed, and it damn should be always closed in all guns) exceeds that of AK family and shoots in even worse conditions, but the M-16 creed still lives. Hell, AR-15 took years to stop being considered shit just because it's a distant derivative of M-16 family.

Memes were mistake, as always

Reminds me about Gun Jesus and his AK-AR mud test. Shit was hilarious, especially their confused reactions when the AR not only fired, but went full out

*auto
Fucking phone-posting

My favorite gun meme is about L85 rifle. The gun is weird by itself, granted, and in A2 model still has some minor issues, but the thing is, British government sunk absurd funds into developing this monstrosity and in the end produced the A1 model, which was utter garbage. We are talking about M16 tier of memes here about being bad. It was so bad, it was basically inoperable in most of conditions that weren't dry shooting range AND assuming you were minding your thumb, so you won't accidently release the mag.
Thing is, the badness of the rifle hit media after Gulf War, where combat reality proved this sucker is utter shit. And because the amount of money and almost 15 years of development and distribution, Ministry of Defense denied all claims, denied all the leaked reports and documents and basically for 5 years was pretending the gun is fine, lying through their teeth and further fueling the meme. So when they've finally said "Ok, the gun is bad and it doesn't work properly", the shit hit the fan and the meme bloated to astronomical size. They quickly fixed the most glarring and easy to fix issues and as far as everyone is concerned, the A2 model is perfectly fine (if weirdly shaped and useless for left-handed shooters) service rifle, but has such awful reputation it will probably never manage to shake it. Especially since Brits want to entirely discontinue the SA80 weapon program, leaving the legacy forever.

Appropriate.

Don't bully Elle!
youtube.com/watch?v=FyPH182_HEY

No, but I'd absolutely take him on if death was on the line and I had my Lithgow Atrax rifle.

What if he's Sicilian?

Eh don't worry too much you will still get an answer. There is a reason we say you don't even need the other boards anymore.