MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge - 「 B L U E M O N D A Y 」

You cannot. That whole block of text right there is one triggered ability. Once it begins resolving, nobody has priority to take any game actions until it's DONE resolving. You can fetch before the trigger starts to resolve, or after it resolves, but not WHILE it's resolving.

I guess the trick is for multiple Delvers then, or in conjunction with Top effects.

What you can do is reveal a card, put it back, and then crack a fetch to put a different card on top to draw for the turn, but you won't be able to change the card that delver looks at to see if it flips or not.

If I use The Scarab God's pseudo-Eternalize ability on a creature in the graveyard while I have Yixlid Jailer on the battlefield, will the token have abilities or not?

It will. Scorpion God's ability creates a copy of the card, which means it only looks at the card as it existed in layer 1 (same reason Clone won't pick up buffs from equipment or Auras or counters- those work way past Layer 1). Yixlid Jailer doesn't take away abilities until Layer 6.

>player B mirrorweaves everything into a 1/1 viscera seer
>player C responds with cower in fear, to give everything -1/-1
>me, controlling glint-eye nephilim
>attempt to respond by paying 1 and discarding to give +1/+1 til EOT, but not sure if will work, call over rules-knowledgeable person
>they say it's no good and the buff won't work
i don't see why giving it +1/+1 until end of turn is lost when it becomes a viscera seer... can you explain this interaction? secondly, is it any different if i instead cast giant growth and will it lose that buff when it becomes a 1/1?

several weeks later, i was reading the HOU release notes/rulings and i see that mirror mirage works in a contrary manner. was the rules person incorrect in the mirrorweave case? if not, what's the difference between pic related and mirrorweave?
source: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/hour-devastation-release-notes-2017-06-30

scarab, not scorpion my man
scorpions have a stinger so they can give -1/-1 counters

So, Glint-Eye's ability resolves and creates a continuous effect in layer 7c, giving it +1/+1 until end of turn. Then, Cower in Fear resolves, giving all your creatures and B's creatures -1/-1 by creating a similar continuous effect, also in Layer 7c. Finally, Mirrorweave resolves, turning everything into a Viscera Seer in layer 1.

So going through the layers, you end up with... a 1/1 Viscera Seer. Because it's getting +1/+1 and -1/-1 in the same sublayer, they basically just cancel each other out.

I have no idea why he'd think the +1/+1 wouldn't apply.

My bad!

If I use Liliana of the Veil's +1, who discards first? Can I use the information of what my opponent discarded, plus what I already know about their hand because of Black targeted discard, to make a more informed decision of what I should discard?

Nobody! It's simultaneous.

Technically speaking, the AP makes their decision of WHICH card to discard first (without revealing), then NAP does the same, and then they're discarded simultaneously. You can't try to 'wait and see', but if your opponent just immediately pitches a card before you could reasonably have chosen yours, feel free to make use of that info.

In a serious setting you should each set your card aside face down (or indicate it in some other fashion) and then simultaneously put them in the graveyard. Same as Show and Tell.

good to know. i'll doubt that person now. it's a problem because our legs hasn't had even an l1 judge since last year. i've considered studying to become a judge myself as my card knowledge is decent and i understand easy rules interactions, but i would struggle with layers based on what i've seen here plus i lack determination

It's also fine to just pick a card from your hand, and hold it separate from the rest.

Honestly, all you need for L1 is Layer 7, and a -little- layer 1. The complicated shit is L2 territory.

If I cast Wildfire, do I have to show which lands I sacrifice before my opponent makes his or her choice?

oh and i'm not even the most knowledgeable or dedicated person there, i attend fnm less than ten times a year. I know you've posted it before but can you give a rundown on becoming a seat pusher?

Technically, yes. You, as AP, make your choices, then the opponent makes their choices KNOWING what yours were, then you sac.

The exception to this is when you're making choices involving a hidden zone, like your hand- you still make your choice 'first', but since it's a hidden thing, your opponent doesn't really have any information to work with

Have a pulse. Don't be a dick. Know the MTR, know Standard mechanics, know the JAR, know some basics.

Contact an L2+ in your region, run a couple FNMs (any event really, but FNM is easy and frequent), pass a test, pass the "are you a dick?" interview, profit.

Can you explain this meme to me?

Magus of the Moon (and Blood Moon) create some not-terribly-intuitive interactions because of the rules around overwriting things into being a Basic Land. This works in Layer 4.

Humility and Opalescence interact... interestingly (namely, Opalescence makes Humility a creature, which creates the 'burrito so big even he couldn't eat it' frustration of Humility removing its own ability), in layers 4 and 6.

Life and Limb is a fucking devil card and I hate it.

You can still phase them out.

BETTER:

Make them into a non-creature artifact.

Play Bludgeon Brawl.

Mindslaver your opponent, equip their Commander to a token.

Phase the token out.

JUDGE

What happens to the Aura when the creature phases out? It's stuck to an invisible creature?

Flavorwise, the creature vanishes, but the act of continued Vanishing stays around? Or the magic that causes the Vanishing? Flavorwise, wouldn't this work better as a straight up enchantment? That things are Vanishing, continually?

When something phases out, everything attached to it "indirectly" phases out with it.

I don't... I don't understand.

Ok. That's fine. Ok.

Get a big styrofoam cup. Write "PHASING" on it.

When something phases out, put the cup over it, and all the Auras and Equipment attached to it.

They're still -there-, we're just pretending they aren't.

When it phases back in, remove the cup.

When an object phases out, it and everything attacked to it stop existing until that object phases back in.

The ability of objects attacked to a phased out object to phase back in is dependent on that object they're attached to.

If a token phases out, it stops existing forever and can't phase back in, so anything attached to it will never phase back in.

Mirrorweave targets the seer. Just a reminder that if it's dead from the -1/-1 first nothing else gets to be it.
Phased out stuff takes everything attached with it. >Cup of phasing

Technically they don't stop existing, we just ignore them.

Whoop, I didn't catch that either.

Does mirage mirror stop being an artifact when it copies a non-artifact? If so does that mean it could dodge artifact removal by changing

Yep! It becomes an exact copy of the target, as it exists in Layer 1. If it were to remain an artifact, the copy effect would say so, like it does on Phyrexian Metamorph.

Dumb questions incoming
>How does double blocking work?
>How does double blocking work if the attacking creature has trample?
>is it true that if the attacking creature has deathtouch and trample, it can assign 1 damage to kill the blocking creature then the remaining damage to that creatures controller?

are invocations legal in pre release?

if yes where does it say in the official rules so I could pull it up as proof?

These aren't dumb! Everyone starts somewhere.

>Double blocking
The defending player assigns 2 (or more) blockers to one attacking creature. The Attacking player chooses the order in which they plan to assign damage to those blockers (because they have to assign lethal to one, before moving onto the other). Everyone gets priority to do stuff, then we move to the damage step, where the 2 blockers and the 1 blocked will deal their damage simultaneously.

>double block with trample
Has to be able to assign lethal damage to ALL things blocking it. Any leftover damage can trample. So a 6/6 blocked by two 1/1s can do 4 trample. A 6/6 blocked by three 2/2s can do no trample.

>Deathtouch and Trample
Correct. Any nonzero amount of damage from a Deathtouch source is 'lethal', so you only need to assign 1 damage per blocker for a Trampler with Deathtouch, and all remaining can trample over.

MTR 7.2: Card Use In Limited Tournaments.

"Cards from a Masterpiece Series are allowed when opened in boosters associated with that series."

blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr7-2/

Thanks so much!

Now I'm curious. How does the three cards in the third panel interact?

If no player takes an action, is it possible to tap thermo alchemist before i cast a suspended rift bolt?

Yes, you can activate its ability with the suspend trigger on the stack, with the cast trigger on the stack, or with its own untap trigger on the stack. These will all do roughly the same thing (let you get an activation out of it and then untap it when it triggers when you cast Rift Bolt).

Thanks alot you are the champ

A complicated interdependency loop.

Magus of the moon makes all nonbasic lands Mountains.

Xenograft adds a creature type to each creature in play (in this case, saproling)

Life and Limb says "all Forests are 1/1 saprolings, all saprolings are Forests"

So each Forest is a 1/1 saproling, and each creature is also a saproling that is also a Forest, which is actually a mountain.

I would be content to say "every creature and land is a land creature - Saproling Mountain in addition to its other creature types, with a power and toughness of 1 unless otherwise printed, and they all can tap for R" but that's probably wrong.

>have shitloads of questions
>no judge thread
>forget all of them when i spot judge thread

every fucking time

Write em down my guy!

Three ways to do that! The first is to just ping in response to the "remove a counter from me" trigger. The second is to ping in response to the "Cast me for free" trigger. The third is to ping in response to Thermo-Alchemists's own "untap me because you cast a spell" trigger.

I control a Geralf's Messenger with a +1/+1 counter on it. My opponent casts Black Sun's Xenith, where X=3. Does Undying trigger? I've heard from some folks that it does, but rule 704.3 states that all state-based actions occur simultaneously as a single event.

Hilarity ensues if you turn your opponent's Commander into an equipment, attach it to a token, and phase it. Because phasing is explicitly not a zone change, there's no way to get the commander back short of Karn Liberated's ultimate.

if you copy a spell that was kicked does it double the kicked effect?

Yes. All additional/alternate costs that were paid in the first spell are considered paid in any copies.

It does not. At the time that it died, it had 3 -1/-1 counters and a single +1/+1 counter. The same SBAs that killed it are the ones that removed the counters, so at the time it died, it did have the counter. No trigger.

Yes, the copy will also be kicked.

I just need a word on this. do eternalized copies keep legendary supertype? I think yes, but I'm not sure about it, because it's a copy, but it's also just a black zombie and not "in addition to its other types"

I figure it's unlikely to matter, but I may as well know.

They do. They -are- Zombies in addition, in the fuller rules. Same as Embalm.

Why do you need song of the dryads?

Also gA, if my opponent puts Song on a nonland permanent, can I remove it using pic related? yes this is a real magic card,
arabian nights

Bludgeon Brawl doesn't work on creatures.

wow. I really need to RTFC.

Song makes it a noncreature.

And yes, you can. Is it a "target Aura attached to a land"? Yes, it is. Legal target!

There's a little argument in the EDH general right now- what is the result of casting Ichor Explosion, and sacrificing a Hyalopterous Lemure that has given itself flying 104 times?

Pic related, sorry. user who posted it thinks it should be a massive buff to all creatures because the negative of a negative is a positive.

Currently that's true, but on Friday it won't be.

What's changing on Friday?

That interaction.

Negative numbers will be replaced with '0' when attempting to calculate values of X for effects like Ichor Explosion's.

Basically, the ceiling of -x/-x effects calculated based on another number will be 0, as will the floor of +x/+x effects.

Cool

Hey guys, I got from a friend a box full of cards, the problem is that I'm new to the game, does somebody have a guide of something to create a deck to play and chill?

Maybe try the general thread if there's one up. This is for rules questions.

That said, I'd start by dowloading Magic Duels as it's free and teaches you the basics. Mess around with it until you get that down and know what color or colors you like playing, then build a deck with cards in those colors.

What type of box of cards? If it's a booster box, draft 'em. You can't really make a deck from just a box of cards, but you can have fun with them and perhaps get some cool stuff that you can use as parts of a deck or sell off for parts. You draft by getting a "pod" of people (8 is ideal) and giving each three packs. Each player opens their pack, takes out the basic land and token, picks one card, and then passes that pack down the line of players so that each person has a pack minus one card. This is repeated until there are no cards left in the pack, then the other packs are used in this fashion. Each player then makes a minimum 40 card pool out of their drafted cards and as many basic lands as they want.

No, it's not a booster box, it's a shoe box with cards

Oh, then sort them and find cards you like. From what I can see there's a weird variety in there so just explore and maybe cobble something together. You won't have anything competitive, but you will have something usable in kitchen table with friends.

Hey judge quick one for you,
If hapatra has trample and attacks, gets blocked enough to die but still gets deals damage to the player thanks to the trample how exactly does that resolve?
does she die before she can make a neg counter? does she ever get to make a snake token?

1st skill trigger, put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
2nd skill doesn't, she's not on the field anymore when you put the counter on a creature.

Her "put a -1/-1 counter on target creature" will trigger. Then she'll die, then the trigger will go on the stack. By the time it resolves, she's LONG dead, so you won't get a snek.

What opportunity does someone in paper magic have to forget about the Chancellor of the Forge ability and have their spell countered?

In MTGO I think they would get a popup that says "pay 1 for blahblah" so it wouldn't be possible to forget the ability if you had the mana available.

Assuming you mean Chancellor of the Annex, it's the basic rules of Missed Trigger.

I cast my spell. It's on you to remember your own Chancellor trigger and say "That's countered unless you pay 1", or "Paying 1?", or in some way demonstrate awareness of the trigger, and acknowledge it. You can't just "sit on it" and then go "haha you didn't pay 1".

Anecdote: I once cast a Sensei's Top into a Chancellor trigger to clear the way for my Force on his turn. I was basically just gonna plop it right in my graveyard when my opponent goes "okay, resolves". It's on him to remember.

Right.

It's like the difference between Icefall Regent and Frost Titan. With Icefall Regent, it's just flat out illegal to NOT pay that 2- you have to. If you forget to pay it, or can't, we rewind to before you took an illegal game action.

With Frost Titan, it's a trigger. It's legal for you to cast a spell when you can't pay for the 2, but it's also possible for you to do that and hope your opponent forgets their trigger.

The main difference between casting spells into Chancellor (well, assuming it's the reveal trigger and there isn't one on the battlefield) and Chalice-checking your opponent is that if they miss Chancellor's trigger they don't get to try again.

Some might argue that Chalice-checking is rude and/or disrespectful (I don't usually bother with it at small events but I will a larger ones if it's my out). But people cast a spell into Chancellor all the time so that they can counter something, or whatever.

When you can clear it with a Lotus Petal it feels pretty good.

The line between hoping the other guy forgets his "counter that spell" trigger and hoping the other guy forgets his "oh and I also scry 1" portion of the heroic trigger (from the anecdote from the last judge thread about battlewise hoplite) seems so thin and I hate it.

The difference is that one of them, the trigger is forgotten wholesale, and the other one a trigger is remembered, but resolved wrong.

If they just forget the Heroic trigger altogether, it's exactly the same as the Chalice thing- it's not your job to remind your opponent of their triggers. He missed it, sucks to be him, move on. But if he DOES clearly acknowledge the trigger, and resolves it wrong, and you choose to say nothing because it's advantageous... that's no different than not correcting your opponent when they put their 3/3 in the bin after an Infest, or when they mistakenly mark down 4 damage from your 4/4 after that Infest, when it's swinging as a 2/2. You cannot knowingly allow illegal actions to go by the wayside to gain advantage.

It really isn't, though.

You can't only forget part of a triggered ability. If you remember one part, you get the whole thing. At that point, your opponent is also responsible for maintaining the gamestate, so they can't let you forget assuming they know how that ability works.

It really only comes up with abilities that have multiple parts and no default action (notably, scrying didn't at the time of gA's story).

gA, how do you feel about this kind of behavior? What about omitting a card type in your graveyard when asked how big your goyf is (not giving them a number, just listing card types)?

Brainstorm on upkeep, holding delver ability on the stack. Find a inst/sorc and put it on to via brainstorm then resolve delver. This is a very common strat

Right, but you don't get to "peek" at the top card before you do that. You either Brainstorm an instant/sorcery to the top, or leave it to chance (assuming you don't already know what's there).

What happens if you put something like Bloodscent on a creature with Menace and your opponent only has 1 creature able to block?

Which behavior? Letting your opponent miss their trigger? I'm fine with it, because while it's your job to make sure the game state is legal, it's NOT your job to babysit your opponent. I used to play and judge back when you had to remind your opponent of their triggers if you were aware of them, and it was misery. It punished you for being more attentive than your opponent, and gave a sort of incentive to not pay attention to your opponent's stuff to avoid the "correct their misplay or get DQed" thing.

I don't like the Goyf situation, but I understand why it's the way it is.

Fulfill the maximum number of requirements (which is what Bloodscent creates) without violating any restrictions (menace).

It's not possible to tick off ANY requirements without violating a restriction here, so there's no legal block for your opponent.

>I don't like the Goyf situation, but I understand why it's the way it is.

I agree completely.

If you could make one rules change, what would you do? It could be because you don't like the rule, or even something trivial that you hate because it's inconvenient.

The only rule I really vehemently argue with is triggered mana abilities.

Apparently the Official answer on the goofy 'make Caged Sun a land' loop is that any given ability is either always a mana ability, or never one. Examine it in a vacuum. I disagree with that, because the rules as written say a triggered ability can only be a mana ability if, among the other criteria, an ACTIVATED mana ability triggered it. So, quite frankly, I disagree with the Official stance, and say that the first Caged Sun trigger is a mana ability, but the rest are not, because they were not triggered by an activated mana ability.

If I could, I'd want the rules there changed to either make it plain that it's possible for an ability to be a mana ability or not, based on what triggered it, or for them to remove the word 'activated' from that line and just say "if a mana ability fired it, it doesn't target, and it could add mana, it's a triggered mana ability". Because right now, the policy is in direct contradiction with the actual letter of the rules.

Thanks!

Is the Caged Sun loop the only situation where that comes up and actually matters?

I think so? Basically you'd need to set up a situation where a triggered mana ability triggers ANOTHER one, and that's the only one I've ever seen discussed. Even then it takes quite some hoop-jumping to create. It's a minor thing, but it's always rustled my jimmies.

That, or I'd change IPG policy to stop assuming Judges are morons and give us back the ability to factor in assumed intent. That used to be a thing we could do, where we could more broadly say "I really don't feel there was ill intent here" and blunt the penalties (which would be great for the Tarmogoyf thing, because you could also spin that around as 'you are clearly trying to abuse a safety valve in the rules to mislead someone, contrary to the SPIRIT of those rules', and penalize them)

But, eh. Not my call.

Yeah, not being able to factor intent is kinda weird.

Having to either DQ kids for saying the wrong thing at FNM (or go LA LA LA DIDN'T HEAR THAT) is bullshit.

I have definitely said to a judge when my opponent did something wrong that I believe they had no ill intent. For example, playing against a friend of mine at a Comp REL event, ask how many cards in hand on my turn. They count and go "...eight? Fuck." I'm pretty sure he managed to fat-finger an extra card into his hand somehow, but I think there's approximately a 0% chance he was cheating. I don't think the proper penalty/fix was applied, but since he's a friend of mine, I don't really care all that much.

How do creatures that are able to block two creatures work with damage? Does the defending player order attackers?

It's like double-blocking, just backwards.

Say you attack with a 1/4 and a 4/4. I block both with a Lairwatch Giant. I'll choose the damage assignment order- that is, the order in which I'll assign damage to those two attackers. I'll most likely put the 4/4 first, so when we get to the Damage step, I'll have to put 4 damage on it before I can put any damage on the other. You also have this information prior to the damage step, so you can throw a Giant Growth at the 4/4 to make sure you don't lose ANY creatures, since I can't just go "Oh, then 4 to the 1/4, then"

I thought that was already the case

It wasn't, but it was also the exception. In basically every other case, if something asked for a value and got a negative number, it'd just plug in 'zero' instead. This was an exception, and is how I used Serve on an attacking Wild Beastmaster to wipe an entire field during a prerelease.

I have darkest hour and teysa, orzhov scion, and ashnods altar on the field.

I sacrifice a token to the altar to produce two colourless mana.

Would I be correct in the assumption that teysa would produce a new spirit token and I could produce as much colourless mana as I would like with this?

>omitting a card type in your graveyard when asked how big your goyf is (not giving them a number, just listing card types)
Are you saying this is legal and not cheating? why