Naruto unironically has one of the best magic systems in fantasy

Naruto unironically has one of the best magic systems in fantasy

Apparently it was originally supposed to be about wizards, not ninjas.

spoonfeed me baka

Nah nigga that shit was too random. Third Hokage is top tier but used weird ass mud techniques that didn't do shit to Orochimaru.

Uchiha clan keeps spamming retarded Fireball lv 1, 2, 3 techniques, and somehow it's still relevant even vs. strongest opponents in the universe with reality warping attacks.

All the strongest people ignore the chakra system, like Eight Gates unlock, Mangekyou, Sage mode, Rinnegan, whatever the fuck Kaguya used, etc.

If you kept it to the early episodes, chakra is basically just mana and seals are incantations.

I feel you.

This, nardo is literally a universal Mana system. Even the martials (Samurai) use it.

>consistent foundation for how chakra works within the human biology
>explains the origin of chakra, the creator of ninjitsu, and the different types of chakra
>has a unique form of chanting (hand signs)
>summoning magic isn't just creating stuff that obeys you but literally teleporting animals from a different dimension with a blood pact as they become your best buds
>there is a science behind creating new ninjitsu, it's not just "it's magic, I aint gotta explain shit"
>covers magic from basic fireballs to reality bending

>martials are actually useful.

to be completely fair, does it not make sense for all the strongest people to ignore the chakra system? Also I wouldn't call Eight Gates unlock, Sage Mode, or the Rinnengan ignoring the chakra system. Eight gates just fucks up the dynamic between your natural biology and chakra. Sage Mode is using your surroundings as a source of chakra. Rinnengan just allows use to use chakra in its most base form, like pulling from the "source" or casting Wish that is in so many fantasy systems

Naruto also had the Kyuubi supplying infinite chakra. The only real bullshitters are Sasuke and Itachi possessing infinite chakra with no real reason to do so. Even if you say their eye techniques are the reason, those are separate techniques that come with costs in the form of fatigue, bleeding eyes, or blindness, yet they don't actually supply chakra and we see them utilizing non-eye techniques that should be consuming large amounts of chakra.

Sasgay and Itachi basically just won genetic lottery, that there is the reason the Uchiha's were big shitters.

We should do a setting thats essentially this. Shame we didn't get wizards, it would have made Rock Lee even more hilarious. You got a bunch of harrypotter nigga's slinging spells and this guy runs across the dueling floor and just punches you

>it's not just "it's magic, I aint gotta explain shit"
But it's, the whole Pain's """"gravity"""" powers is literally magic, gravity doesn't work like that. The whole Sasuke's """I create storm clouds by throwing fireballs to the sky"""" is also magic because that's not how storm clouds are created, etc. Is just capecomic, magic with a little bit of pseudoscientific explanation so 8 yo believe is science but anyone with at least midschool studies will dismiss as magic

Bro, lightning is just my chi wrapped around my arm which turns it into a chirping lightsaber

>gravity doesn't work like that
he doesn't have gravity powers

> Shame we didn't get wizards, it would have made Rock Lee even more hilarious. You got a bunch of harrypotter nigga's slinging spells and this guy runs across the dueling floor and just punches you

>He never heard of fist mage
>he never heard of sword mage

Son, the fun part of Nardo setting is everyone can use magic in different techniques, elements and schools, which can counter another.
That's a lot of fun.

>Son, the fun part of Nardo setting is everyone can use magic in different techniques, elements and schools, which can counter another.

Even the fucking animals get to play with chakra.

>The only real bullshitters are Sasuke and Itachi
And Kakashi, Shikamaru, etc etc etc, those ended having infinite chakra till plot demanded they don't. Kakashi could only make 3 chidoris per day to basically spam them ad nausaum at the end of the manga, same with kamui, in the war he was using kamui even to brush his teeth. And don't get me even started in Shikamaru aka "I read books and play shogi for 3 days, 3 fucking days and suddenly I go from Yamcha to SSBlue Goku being able to outclass Kakashi in both speed and taijutsu with infinite chakra pool" also did I say he's Sasuke 2 but somehow everybody is super fine with him going all rogue and vindictive?

>people to ignore the chakra system
No, it wouldent, in the first series everyone is limited by chakra, even the kages and three sages who are said to be some of the most powerfull people in the world (than for some unknow reason they decide that adding like 20 people who are above kage levels makes seanse, and allowing 99% of the main cherecters to reach kage/sage levels of power is a good idea). Narutos main problem is the powerbloat. One of the main reasons why naruto had a edge above others was because he had a fuck ton of chakra, he could almost never run out. This was a special thing, everyone else could drop maybe 3-4 A ranked jutsu and be out. Once they killed it with ignoring chakra, the whole thing went to hell because chakra MADE THE WHOLE SERIES INTERESTING

His magnet and levitation powers are classified as gravity techniques, from the Deva Path.

>he doesn't have gravity powers
Kakashi says he does

It's not even as good as the One Power from THE WHEEL OF TIME, you illiterate peasant. And even if you're one of those mouthbreathing clods who needs everything spelled out to you instead of appreciating the wonder of an unknown universe (see: THE BLACK COMPANY, anything by Tolkien), there's still Sanderson's absurd predilection for creating a fully functioning magical system for every novel he shits out. I'm not even going to touch works like MALAZAN.

Fuck you. You probably think midichlorians were a vital addition to Star Wars, because it "fleshed out the Force." I hope you and everyone like you get stuck in an elevator with nothing to read but a copy of THE WORM OUROBOROS.

>when you create a dude who is so obviously another character that you have to come up with bullshit powers to not make him relate to the other dude and then forget about this powers
Obito/Tobi was a mistake, they retconned half his powers. Fuck, this manga is half retcons half plotholes

Still not as bad as Bleach. One Piece is surprisingly consistent, they bring back random background NPC bitches I forgot about from 5 years ago and their actions and consequences and history checks out.

eight gates release was one of my favourite power for a price concepts in the series, and it was reserved solely for martials, with an ultimate attack that was more powerful than every single other technique in the series except for the natural defence of the ten tails jinchuriki. And the best part was it wasn't even difficult to understand, the way to unlock it was literally just "KEEP FUCKING TRAINING" because even might dai was able to do it and he fucking murdered four of the seven shinobi swordsmen with it.

Naw they are not.

See shitlee and eight gates you fucking die.

Naruto is a D&D3.5 game

One Piece is gonna never fucking end

The Samurai are actually quite strongk, strongk enough the other nations know not to fuck with them and it's their nation that is used as the neutral ground for forming the Ninja Nation Alliance.

Sasgay just shronks a bunch of him because he's fucking Sasgay. Even then, Samurai are basically rolling in magical power armor that's resistant to magic, wielding swords made of pure magic that can take the form of any weapon.

the powers in one piece are kind of bullshit though

>string fruit
>actually now I can make anything into string

thats like saying luffy's ultimate form is he can make anything into rubber

to be fair, power gained from eating fruit is a fairly FUCKING OBVIOUS reference, but still a good'un

Yeah what's up with that, I never realized half of those fruits are limited to user only and others are like "LOL EVERYTHING IS SLIME"

If luffy do oh my rubber nen bullshit, I am going to laugh.

>KEEP FUCKING TRAINING
Actually no
You had to be special, Rock Lee, the famouns "hardworking dude" is special, he's not your average dude, Kakashi says it, you have to be fucking special to unleash the gates.

HunterxHunter is better in that regard. The nen system is much more consistent and interesting.

Lee and guy were one of the most powerfull people in the whole series dude. Guy after 8 gates relse almost killed madara who was in sage of 6 (or was it 9?) paths mode, Lee could go toe to toe with a lot of akatsuki

Strongest mortal caster in the setting/second strongest caster was actually legit afraid of that martial though.

Until a PC caster comes and instagibs em m8.

And even then samurai are still casters or packing magic items.

>HunterxHunter
nah like what is even nen, how is greed island even a thing

so then why could Might Dai do it when, aside from eight gates release, he was just a kinda average genin?

everyone could learn to relese the gates, it's just that even the 4th gate hurt your body a lot. Lee was "special" because he of how much punishment he could take, but he was not "special" as in had some special powers. He just put all his stats into dex and str

Wow
What a great rebuttal

You mean dex and con.

Yes using a forbiden tech that fucking kills you he can go kind toe to toe but not really vs not fully powered ubercaster who is taking it as shit and giggles.

Naruto is a 3.5 caster supremacy campaign m8. Accept it.

what, those are actually just straight up questions

greed island introduces the concept of someone making entire beings out of nen and people just ignore the fact that the whole idea is fucking broken

So .... Lee was basically Guts

Complete with his life being suffering

If you mean Lee vs Sandguy, granted. But Madara himself acknowledged Might Guy and lauded him, something he didn't do for ANY other person of the modern age. The only men he respected died centuries ago just like him.

>taking it as shit and giggles

Yeah with blood spewing out their mouth right

A reference to what?

Enel did already that.

come on.

user, re read the chapters, Guy was the only person who could lay a finger on madara before naruto or sasgay got there, and he fucked him up, madara bearly got out of it alive. Guy was also at all times clearly stated to be Kakashis equal, and being one of the few people who could fight people with a sharingan. Bullshit caster supremacy is only part of the final arc, and really the main reason why it is even there is because they overpowerd the sharingan so much that the whole thing became DBZ

>Nen
>Consistent
Ahahahahah, no. The way it works, is you train for ages until you become magic.
And then you can make your own superpower because you are now magic. But if it is a really good superpower you have to throw in a bullshit weakness or conditions for it to work.
Except some people give themselves op superpowers because they fucking said so.

That's literally all the limitations or consistency the setting has. You may as well ask Veeky Forums to come up with superpowers and not expect them to take the fuck out of it.

You have to remember, the anime is always cleaned up by Americans because a little blood and guns is bad and scary. they took all the guns and blood out of One-Piece, Yugioh, and Naruto, because cartoons are for kids.

It was.

Damn you 4Kids!

Whaterver the reason Kakashi says "5 gates?! hardworking genius my ass, this kid is special" in Lee vs Gaara match. Lot of people shit in that this manga started as a "hardworking people can reach the top" and that was false since day one, Neji was 100% right.

>So .... Lee was basically Guts
>Complete with his life being suffering
Lee was walking the path of the muscle wizard, no one said it is a easy path

dude, guys father could open all 8 gates when he was just a genin. Guy was tought how to do it when he was also a genin,

I don't remember the part where Adam and Eve become pirate superheroes who can't swim.

he said that because he managed 5 gates by the time he was 13, which is way ahead of his age range. he was special, but that doesn't mean that he's the ONLY ONE who can learn the eight gates.

>mfw Dragon Ball GT
>mfw Dragon Ball Super

DBZ is small time

The Forbidden Fruit was shaped like a testicle?

It was in the Apocrypha, Catholics cut it out along with all the other cool shit

it's a reference, not plagiarism. knowledge was a forbidden superpower.

So like, Adam could become a Knowledge Zoan and Eve could turn objects into knowledge, right?

I'm only quoting the manga, Kakashi gets all surprised when he hears Lee is able to open 5 gates as a genin and mentions that's not hardworking, he has to be special to do that. If Might Duy was able to open 8 gates that means he was also super duper special.

>What is Noah and his ark saga

ARK ARK FRUIT OVERPOWERED

I'm not saying he's the chosen one, I'm saying hardworking people amount to nothing unless they have something special. There're 3 people like Lee, Lee is special for whatever reason, hardworking is not what made him reach the top.

hardworking is what made him reach the top dude. his 'special power' was that he was REALLY GOOD at hard work. his willpower was second only to naruto himself, and even that's debatable.

>fictional characters cannot be great through pure efforts and not talent because of my real life beliefs on hard work and talent.

Just like 3.5, you can totally make a Martial that can kill in 1 turn a Caster at 20th level, is not that hard, my monk could deal 160 HPs in a single (no save or shit, just raw damage from one unarmed attack) hit at 15th level, that doesn't mean I could defeat casters, it only meant that if the caster was stupid enough to be at my hand's reach and didn't have any defense like immediate action teleport, he was going to die. Casters have so much utility and contingencies that they can potentially soak infinite damage.

Madara only got hit because he decided to be at Guy's reach, before we saw him fly at distance and drop nukes, but for Guy he decided to go into CQC range.

>Taoist magic being unique to Naruto.

user learn your weeabo culture properly.

user, lee trained with one of the best taijutsu specialists there is, with a sole goal of becoming the very best like no one ever was. Lee was special because he could not use jutsu, he did not have any special powers.

Pretty sure there is one episode where Lee is fighting Orochimaru's bone spike fuckboy, and Gai is telling Kakashi or someone that Lee isn't actually just some guy who works hard, he's actually a genius. And then Lee gets drunk and kicks his ass.

>his "special power" was that he was REALLY GOOD at hard work
Again, no, Kakashi says "hardworking my ass, this kid is special".

Holy shit reread the manga, also stop projecting, nowhere I said it had to be like "real" life, it's how the author made it, Neji was right and everybody else is a fucking hypocrite. I wish there were badass normals, but sadly there aren't.

Then kakashi is lying to himself and the readers.

>Madara only got hit because he decided to be at Guy's reach
>he decided to go into CQC range

No, retard. Madara was scared of Gai the moment he released all gates. He got hit because GUY GOT INTO RANGE. IN SPITE OF MADARA'S ABILITIES.

side tangent: I hate this "be born special" thing that goes on in manga and anime.
Hard work beats out talent 90%of the time.

you know kakashi's opinion is not a fact right. lee worked hard, really hard, that's his entire character. to prove through hard work and training that he can be a ninja with only taijutsu, and because of that he managed to unlock 5 of the eight gates by age 13. also Neji literally went back on his statements on destiny after fighting naruto, so you can fuck off with that as well.

Give up dude, this people are ignoring what the manga and characters say to keep their "lee is like me, he works hard" mentality. Manga is shit and they droped the "hardworking people reach far" ball long ago, the manga is about powercreep chosen ones, not about hardworking people.

Go to bed Adechi.

That's how we are introduced to Rock Lee. But then it's revealed that he's actually a prodigy at taijutsu, so his lack of ninjutsu is irrelevant. You learn this as early on as when Lee takes off the weights and opens the first gate. Kakashi looks at Guy in astonishment and says this is not something a normal person can do with just hard work.

Please avoid that "debate".

>Neji went back
Naruto has the kyubi inside and that's what allowed him to recover from "lol I blocked your chakra, you're done". Neji was right, Naruto is an hypocrite.

once againe user, the caster supremacy argument works only if you take into account the extream power bloat that the series had twords the end. There were very few pure ninjutsu specialists in the series, Madara was a fucking demi-god that reached "naruto nirvana", out of all the non-super-duper-special-bloodline-monster-traped-in-me cherecters Guy was the ONLY one who could stand up to madara and he had a chance of beeting the guy, and he did this by using only taijutsue. That's like a level 10 fighter went one on one with a lich and took out 90% of it's hp

>this is not something a normal person can do with just hard work at that age
ftfy

also the fact that he's a genius at taijutsu does not mean that's the reason he's so good at it. he's good at it because he trains to get stronger. that's what taijutsu is, it's physical martial arts, if he did not work hard and train, he would not be strong, and fit, and if he was not strong and fit, he wouldn't be able to use taijutsu.

My 15th level Monk (when he was 13 level) killed 3 Marilith (CR 17 monster) in one turn, I know what lvl 10 vs lvl 20 feels, thank you.

Guy tells kakashi that lee is a natural drunken master, which is quait funny and i hate it that they did not do more with it (8 gates unlocked drunken master lee anyone?)

Fuck off, it can't even remain consistent with multiple retcons involving supposedly basic concepts of how the system works that weren't taught to the characters even by their legendary teachers.

You fail to acknowledge the fact that it's possible for Rock Lee to both be a prodigy and to be a hard worker. They're not mutually exclusive. Unlocking the gates at that age is physically impossible with hard work alone, because Lee is a genius. He's even introduced as "a genius at hard work", even if that's just acknowledgment of his work ethic.

seems like a bad idea to get drunk in preparation for your own death. maybe that's the kind of thing you wanna experience.

>5 gates? damn, that's not hardwork, that's hardwork. Because he's not a hardworking genius, he's a hardworking genius
Somehow they got shit mixed and wrote "5 gates? damn, that's not just hardworking he's fucking special", to then a couple of tomes later repeat the same thing against kimimaro

Read into it as much as you want, the manga was pretty clear

Hard work doesn't beat out connections. Rich people were rich because they had the connections to get huge loans, or were practically handed large amounts of money to begin with, while rags to riches entrepreneurs were simply lucky at the right place and time.

that's what i'm talking about dude. it's what i'm saying by another word. sure then. fine. he's a prodigy and a genius, but he's a prodigy and a genius at hard work, which is the reason he is so good at taijutsu.

Then why are you constantly disagreeing with people trying to say Rock Lee is a prodigy.

Neji was also a hardworking genius, he never stopped training.

dude, once lee got drunk he wiped the floor with one of the strongest bitches orochimaru had, without activating any gates, im willing to be that drunk 8 gates lee could take out at least sasgay

>implying implying

user, people are talking about liking the implementation not conceptual crap.

neji was a hard worker but it was said that he is only as powerfull as he is because of a combination of being a fucking genious and his bloodline. The whole neji vs lee arc was about natural talents vs hard work. Neji was born with most of his power, lee had to work for it

And then he died for no reason to save "the man", Hinata.

Naruto truly is the D&D of manga, both terrible and undeserving of the acclaim they received. So too alot of people only defending it because it was the first example of such-and-such they encountered.

Nigga he would be nothing without his eyes. He is the worst example.