i just mocked this up right quick. I'm going to send my players through this semi dungeon with no real story in it. I'm a very new DM and i wanted you to have a look over and whatnot.
uhm, I'm going to be here for awhile to answer any questions. i dont think i should post my entire page of DM notes because of tl;dr so ill be available to answer any questions.
uhh off the bat i have to say that i feel theres a lot of wasted space in this dungeon, like its going to just add walking for no reason, but i wanted a dungeon that seemed real like this isn't just a bunch of corridors in one direction. but i didnt want to put too much stuff to wear down the players so they wouldn't be able to fight the treasure guardian.
i also wanted to put rewards in here but i couldnt think of anything since this is going to be a one time session, so rewards seem silly.
lastly i was considering some sort of healing fountains or something so that they can recover about half their life so they can go through the whole thing.
any questions or thoughts are very much appreciated. oh the party setup is also - Necromancer w/ Familiar - Barbarian - Martial Artist - 2 Undelcared
shit i forgot to mention the red dot beneath "5." is a large roaming enemy that moves every time they do, so it might come across them if they rest (i was thinking about it either having minions with it, or if it was good at singling out players)
and forgot to mark down the hidden wall on the left side beneath "3."
sorry, I'm very new to this.
Jordan Cruz
Hey retard, what fucking system?
Oliver Flores
Great criticism here, let me break this down
>Hey retard, what fucking system? ____^____ establishes him as a total faggot who can immediately be ignored because hes got a fucking cactus up his ass.
>Hey retard, what fucking system? Where as ______^___________ establishes that he doesn't understand basic terminology of "DM" standing for Dungeon Master which directly correlates to dungeons and dragons where as GM is the more universal term.
> what fucking system? ALSO establishes that hes so much of a faggot that he can't come up with anything that all, that advice for running games ONLY correlates to the system, that basic design and advice couldn't possibly translate past the barrier that is the 100,000,000 similar systems out there.
in conclusion (you) is the gay
Nathaniel Gomez
What sort of enemies are you using, and what's your party level?
Whats sort of traps are those?
How long do you have until game?
And where'd you get that map?
Liam Ross
Enemies: Orc looking things of generic ness, BUT they use strategy and dont just charge forward angrily. (do you think theres too few enemies?)
Party level: 3
Traps: Various traps, mostly runes that shoot magic bolts at the players, exception being the one that disorients the players by spraying smoke and locking them in an almost maze (top right corner)
time: long enough, we dont have a start date.
Map: i stole it awhile back from some guy who said he uses deep night, i use it too but i like the one they made more.
Jayden Baker
Looks neat, good mix of symmetry and avoiding symmetry.
Could use more loops though. It's hard to explain without keyed rooms, but why not have those corridors south of #4 link up with the corridors/rooms to their north? Even if you don't mind walking for no reason, that's a very roundabout way to get from one room to another, and an extra link means there's another route for monsters to ambush PCs (or vice versa).
In addition other terminology they missed was the classes and the direct use of the term "Arcana Check" which directly correlates to D&D/Pathfinder.
so they just didnt even read and decided to shitpost, or they CANT read and are lashing out because their redneck brain was infuriated
Logan Gutierrez
>"DM" standing for Dungeon Master which directly correlates to dungeons and dragons where as GM is the more universal term. OD&D, Bx/BECMI/RC, AD&D/2e, Player's Option, 3e/3.5/3.pf, 4e, Next/5e are radically different* games. 5e is pretty similar to 3e tho The OSR systems aren't of the same paradigm as the d20 systems, and 4e (while very good) arguably isn't a roleplaying game.
I suppose we can discount OD&D since it calls it's DMs "referees", but there are 6 systems that play differently and use the term DM. Also, DM *is* a universal term. GM is a bandaid other publishers use to avoid lawsuits.
Juan Sanders
>that basic design and advice couldn't possibly translate past the barrier that is the 100,000,000 similar systems out there The head and tail of the D&D IP are far enough apart that "basic advice" on either end is "awful advice" on the other.
Tyler Cruz
that logic only works if you're talking mechanics, theres a shit ton of advice that works for every system and genre.
dont over power the party with too many enemies dont put too many traps or the players will check under every stone in every room and waste time dont be a dick GM, sometimes the rules come secondary to fun. if combat is going too long have the enemy take a fall and end it early. if one player is missing think about lowering the number of enemies. try and get into character more as a GM, you'll be uncomfortable at first but it really works out. even give enemies little things to make them more alive. for the "boss" monsters, make sure theres never just one, the players can easily over power one single target. make the traveling interesting in some way, even if its describing scenery and random things you notice. listen to your players during and after the game for ways you can improve, if they say they wish there was more combat then add more combat. if they are bored during combat, cut some of it or spice it up. ambient lighting + music can go a long way.
do you need more? you're a complete fucking moron, theres a ton of advice that works for every tabletop regardless of system. all of this is usable advice for every end of the spectrum.
Owen Wood
fundamentally a bad design. Why? Because you have too many open rooms and corridors. It's probably overemphasized by the fact you don't footnote the rooms to say what they are. This is the sort of map that works well in video games but not in role-playing games. Players want more interactabillity than wide, wandering spaces
Elijah Wood
thats a good point, i agree. hmm, i wonder if OSR has books on helping name or note what rooms might be in a dungeon.
Leo Roberts
Not OP but thanks
Jayden Morris
wtf? too many open rooms?
That shit doesn't matter one fucking bit unless you throw down the battle grid. And even then it's nice to actually involve bows for a bit.
You bring up a good point w/ the footnotes but I think it'd be safe to assume that the guy has notes with the descriptions of rooms.
Should this not be the case, then yeah you want to have descriptions of the rooms, even if only just a sentence or two.
Adrian Hughes
OP, can confirm I'm not smart enough to have room notes. for every room at least, I'm missing 3 rooms that are pointless.
Mason Fisher
Okay, room sizes are perfectly fine. Maybe get the dimensions of your room to get a sense of scale. Move around it for a bit to get an idea of how much space there really is to move in it.
Or just throw in numbers and laugh with your party should they come up with some bonkers sizes.
Either way, have 1-2 sentences about each room. Try to make them unique. The layout has the feeling of a lived in place, so plan out who lived there and such.
Lots of walking isn't a problem since unlike a videogame, the walking isn't done in real-time.
"You walk a short way down a curving hallway." "You pass through what may have been a common room long ago." "The passage ends in what may have been a small chapel, though there appears to be nothing of value." "The hall leads to a small chamber without notable characteristics beyond two pillars and sconces for torches. There are passages that lead north and south."
You have a pretty good spread of "shit happening" that a few rooms with nothing won't bore players and even have potential to make the setting feel more real.
Alexander Johnson
>dont over power the party with too many enemies OSR doesn't always agree. >dont put too many traps or the players will check under every stone in every room and waste time How about you arbitrate searching in a sane manner? >dont be a dick GM, sometimes the rules come secondary to fun. 3e disagrees. >if combat is going too long have the enemy take a fall and end it early. Two wrongs don't make a right. >if one player is missing think about lowering the number of enemies. OSR disagrees. >try and get into character more as a GM, you'll be uncomfortable at first but it really works out. even give enemies little things to make them more alive. 4e disagrees. >for the "boss" monsters, make sure theres never just one, I'm not even sure where to start on this. Why do you even have "'boss' monsters"? >the players can easily over power one single target. That's system dependent. >make the traveling interesting in some way, Fair. >even if its describing scenery and random things you notice. But that sounds obnoxious. >listen to your players during and after the game for ways you can improve, Fair. >if they say they wish there was more combat then add more combat. if they are bored during combat, cut some of it or spice it up. Why so combat centric? >ambient lighting Is always obnoxious. To everybody. >+ music can go a long way. I find ambient music distracting. But I know people who like it at the table.
Angel Reed
>I'm arguing for the sake of arguing, irrelevant of the initial disagreement
Luis Ortiz
such the contrarian
Julian Moore
Paul Jaquays coauthored a book of DM tips and dungeon design.
>dont be a dick GM, sometimes the rules come secondary to fun. >3e disagrees.
what asshole fucking disagrees, if you disagree you're a bad GM. you're here to have fun, why else play games.
Nathan Sullivan
>We can't give enough advice without a system. That advice isn't system agnostic.
Austin Flores
>not having a dragon guard your hoard of loot or getting mad at calling the dragon a "boss", either way, I've fallen for the classical bait.
Henry Parker
Wow I skipped over that part. Goddamn that triggered me too.
Nathan Phillips
Tomb of Horrors is a pretty crappy dungeon by all accounts, but would you consider Acererak a boss?
Grayson Perry
did you tag the wrong person mate?
Nolan Johnson
How is this relevant in any way to the point made?
There are plenty of monsters that would make for a "boss" of a dungeon both mechanically and with lore.
Bentley Allen
i think they were just trying to ask a question, if Acererak was a "boss" monster. because we were discussing "boss" monsters?
Xavier Carter
I don't see how that is the case given the structure of the sentence. That is certainly an interpretation but there is certainly an implication.
Although I suppose the poster could be an autist with no sense of context.
Jacob Sanchez
>How is this relevant in any way to the point made? In mechanics, lore, and position, he seems like a boss. But he isn't. He's just one more trap to bypass. One of the easier ones to bypass, too.
The point I was making to is that you should just grab the hoard of loot then leave.
I assume is OP, but the response holds regardless.
Parker Morales
Nope, random user. I'm OP. not that i wouldn't want to have a conversation about what makes a boss monster and how to guard your mcguffin/loot.
but could i still get some help on the dungeon? currently I've got tips for the infrastructure, but i would quite appreciate some more help please.
Daniel Gomez
Have you already finished ? I'm pretty sure that'll cover you.
David Morgan
no i have not yet (if you're that user, thank you) but i have read through some of it. its been helpful so far, even with some stuff outside of the game i hadn't thought of.
I'm going to sleep now, only so long i can stare at a screen before the reading is just to read and I'm not absorbing anything.
i hope this is still up when i get back so i can at least see what others think.
Brandon Green
user from earlier just bumping so I can steal some stuff
Logan Cruz
Fun's gone if you realize DM's playing along not letting you die.
Risk of dying / losing your character is part of a good PnP experience. MMO/Diablo-clone's "always winning, always bigger numbers and more loot" fun last longer the dumber your players are but always ends with a whimper. Better go off with a bang.
Nathaniel Clark
Are you the same user that's trolling? Again, that doesn't relate to Whats being said at all.
At what point does saying the rules can sometimes come secondary to fun equate to the GM saying the players can't die.