Fantasy game has clerics

>fantasy game has clerics
>they wear crosses

...

Why wouldn't they?

I know. Disgusting.

It's just weird for a fictional non-Christian religion to use such a hard core Christian symbol.

I mean, some sort of similar iconography makes sense, but like a straight up Crucifix is weird.

Because it's fantasy. I mean you can have whatever you want in your world, it's your world. But it's just unimaginative to use real world religious symbols when you can make anything you want.

To me personally it breaks the immersion a little bit seeing a Roman torture device in a world filled with elves and dwarfs and whatnot.

Using Ankhs is just as bad imo

I see

Give me a single example with a straight up Crucifix along with a crucified person and not just some vague cross object.

>when the cleric converts your character

Lucky for you there was an example posted on this very board

>Not having a weird alternate version of orthodoxy
Don't you know? Jesus can't hear you, he's too busy fighting all the pagan gods in a cosmic royal rumble. Pray harder!

>no crucified person
Just two sticks at a right angle. Easy to make and recognize symbol for a religious cult. It's almost like your major in gender studies left you with no job prospects and burning passion for a major world religion that deserves it the least among them.

*hate, not passion

>projecting

I have no bone pick with Christians, it's simply a lazy cop-out. If you're gonna make a cross in fantasy, make it like the greek version, and not an obvious roman cross with an elongated bottom.

Or you know, you could spend literally 5 minutes in paint designing a more unique symbol for your religious cult.

Maybe they're fantasy Christians?

A cross without a dude dying on it is an old-as-fuck symbol, the same way that Allah's moon belonged to some goddess before he showed up.
Especially weird because I would expect the 'too cool for school' attitudes of Veeky Forums to eschew the typical kitchen-sink 'toothless paganism' generic fantasy pantheon that usually shows up in a DnD game.
Seriously, people, if crosses and ankhs are somehow bad, what holy symbol do you prefer? Throwing anus?

>Or you know, you could spend literally 5 minutes in paint designing a more unique symbol for your religious cult.
And lose all of the valuable connotation players have with the cross already as a religious symbol, just for the sake of being "unique" and nothing else?

>I have no bone pick with Christians, it's simply a lazy cop-out.
It also a way for players to easily recognize who is who by hinting at common stereotypes of our own world. This is why generic not!Europe settings fare better than creative ones.

Yeah but the cross with an elongated bottom is specifically designed to look like the Roman cross. Most pagan crosses are equal on all sides.

Additionally, even disregarding the symbol itself many "monk" or "cleric" type characters also use christian style clothing and tonsure. Sure, robes and tonsure isn't exclusive to Christianity but using all 3 at once is just an obvious, and boring ripoff.

And what the fuck does toothless paganism mean in a D&D/Fantasy context. Pagans don't exist in fantasy settings because there were no Roman Christians to call them "Pagani" as a blanket term.

t. People with no imagination

Why do you need such obvious connotations? Can you not simply explain "These are the followers of the god Helak, they value self-sacrifice, humility, poverty and kindness to all living beings". Takes literally 5 seconds, and you don't have to steal real world symbols.

>And what the fuck does toothless paganism mean in a D&D/Fantasy context.
Having a world with what is essentially dozens of monotheist religions getting along for no reason instead of actually researching and recreating in fiction historical paganism.

>getting your panties in a bunch over something as trivial as crosses
PUTO CABRON GO PLAY IN RAIN PUDDLES AND LEAVE ME ALONE TERES NO WAY YOU EVEN ¡¡¡HAVE!!! A GROUP

'Toothless paganism', in this context, is referring to the idea of phoning in religion in the world - grab a couple of random 'domains', give them entirely generic personalities (Sun God is stern father, Harvest Goddess is loving mother, Death is randomly evil, etc), and leave out anything about actual multi-deity religions that would be interesting.
>Getting into the weeds over the semantics of the word 'pagan'
Do you avoid referring to bad people as 'villains' in your campaign unless they were specifically commoners? No, then get off my back about specific word use.
Still waiting for an explanation of what wouldn't be boring.

>t. People with no imagination
Projecting much? Just because someone explain lowest common denominator to you doesn't mean they believe everything should be dumbed down.

>OP is a fag
>his posts are full of shit

I mean it's a complex topic to cover. Most """pagans""" are linked to Indo-European religion and did not typically use religion as a reason to attack or invade another. They attacked and invaded each other over power and resources.

It's only when said religions begin to combine gods, or declare supremacy over others (such as the Israelite with their patron god Yahweh) that actual religious fighting/persecution occurs.

>not just using an Ankh

I use a triskele, I think it looks neat.

>design religious symbol that represents an order that bases itself around martyrdom, kindness, stoicism
>its a triangle

MS paint is the true medium for artistic endeavor

>They attacked and invaded each other over power and resources.
Same point can be made about Christianity and Islam, with religion only serving to give moral justification for such shitty behavior.
>It's only when said religions begin to combine gods, or declare supremacy over others (such as the Israelite with their patron god Yahweh) that actual religious fighting/persecution occurs.
What is Titanomachia and other myths of wars between old and new gods are believed to represent by some scholars?

So Anima?

Well if those myths do represent a historical change in deities, that would fall under "declaring supremacy", thus the religious fighting.

Once again, just because you have no imagination or knowledge of geometry is not my problem.


I have a feeling that all the butthurt in this thread is the result of ""Christian""" LARPers who are upset they can't DOOS VULT XDDDDD in fantasy worlds

>People with no imagination
Bad DMs ignore the value of easily transferrable information to the laymen (their players).
Acting snooty doesn't ignore the fact that you're going out of the way to achieve the end result of your players having less invested interest.
If you want them to memorize and learn completely unique details about your setting, pick more important stuff to push on them than the shape of the common Catholic-expy religious group's primary symbol.

>they wear some kind of obvious not-cross like with the top cut off, or on its side, or with a few extra spokes
Worse IMO

>54487990
You know, I never got that example of what *wouldn't* be boring, so I I'll just have to declare this amusing burst of adolescence to be bait and saunter my way out of here.
It was an amusing half hour, at least.

The styled sword of Our Lady of Protection, whose blade acts as the shield behind which she protects the weak isnt to be mocked.

What do you have against the orthodox cross?

So, can we at least post potentially religious symbols so this thread isn't a total waste of time?

I'll see what I've got.

...

What about Novgorodian crosses?

...

>There's two holy factions who use a cross for a symbol
>they fight constantly over whether it's an X or an +

Using the basic Roman Catholic cross for your fantasy religion is like using the Stars and Stripes for your fantasy country of Good and Justice. It implies you don't want to play fantasy and just want to have a medieval historical game, and should be forthright about it.
OP is right, a FANTASY game doesn't benefit from using common stereotypes from our world. Not!Europe is not Europe.

wait a fuckng second, is that...

is Fuckley the Antichrist?

Complete originality is damn near impossible, and a certain amount of corner cutting is going to be expected or you will end up with something so difficult to relate to that it's impossible to project yourself into.

>just for the sake of being "unique"
For the sake of making your setting feel less like a theme park attraction.

>Using the basic featherless biped with flat fingernails for your fantasy race is like using the sharp stick for your fantasy tool of murder. It implies you don't want to play fantasy and just want to have a medieval historical game, and should be forthright about it.
>OP is right, a FANTASY game doesn't benefit from using common stereotypes from our world. Not!Europe is not Europe.

It's great cause you can really tell that the one who made it gradually ran out of simple shapes and had to make the symbols more and more convoluted.

>OP is right, a FANTASY game doesn't benefit from using common stereotypes from our world. Not!Europe is not Europe.
it's always the fags with absolutely no knowledge of history or mythology that bring up this retarded argument

I bet you're the same kind of guy that gets mad when archers "fire" instead of "loose".

Here's your obligatory (DOOS VULT), but I guess classic character archetypes would piss you off too.

Noone said anything about bloody complete originality. Literally the Roman cross and literally the Stars and Stripes is not corner cutting.
Also nothing is impossible to project yourself into.
You have no knowledge of history or mythology, pleb. You have to have lived in those times to have any knowledge, all you've got is trivia you've snagged up like a bird-brain magpie.

>this cross is great
>I really love this cross
>but you know what would make this cross even greater?
>if we put like sixteen more crosses on it!

I was on your side of the argument until this. This is just advocating lazy, pandering bullshit.

This is nothing more than hollow condescension. Your players are not idiots. I'm sure you'd like to force a false binary onto this argument, where you'll pretend it's a binary choice between a massive infodump vs using crosses, but it's not.

If you want something simple and iconic then all you need is a symbol that's as simple as a cross. A circle, a triangle, a bear claw, a raven, anything like that. It doesn't have to be 18 jewels of different colours arranged in a spiral, each which has its own mythological meaning which you take an hour to explain to a bored gaming table.

Complete originality is difficult, yes, but using the most popular and iconic religious symbol in the world is lazy.

>haha you're ignorant and stupid and your argument is dumb!!!!

What do I need to know from history/mythology to understand the using the cross is boring af. Yes, we all know crosses aren't exclusive to Christianity, but in this era they are synonymous. Additionally, it's always the Roman Cross that I see that gets used, never any other type of cross and that was my complaint.

>using humanoids as described by Plato is the same thing as using the world's most popular religion+it's symbology+it's ethos in your HIGH FANTASY world

>if we put like sixteen more crosses on it!
There are at least 22 crosses on that one not counting those that broke off.

>game shouldn't use any stereotyopes found in our world
>I don't want complete originality

Make up your mind. While you're at it create for me a religion that is both plausible, relatable and yet doesn't actually exist already in our world in one way or another.

Isn't this a picture of the Spiderman: Homecoming character "Michelle Jones," also known as MJ? The gorgeous future girlfriend of Spiderman?

Taking ideas from real world religions in incorporating them into fantasy religions is fine.

Ripping off the ENTIRE religion, aesthetics and all is just lazy. And that goes for NotBuddhist monks as well.

Which is not a point that most players care about. They playing fantasy games for the fantasy faire, not to consume and study an encyclopedia of your homebrewed setting.

But why be especially triggered about the cross specifically? What about wheat? Is it hard to come up with another plant? What about horses? Is it hard to invent a new beast of burden? Why use humans? Why not make everyone genderfluid technicolor furry humanoids?

>I was on your side of the argument until this
I seriously doubt that, considering it was my first post in the thread.

>What do I need to know from history/mythology to understand the using the cross is boring af.
find me a piece of fantasy media devoid of historical/mythological influences. I'll wait

Who gives a shit, either way?
They can wear crosses, they can wear bikinis; as long as I understand it's a holy symbol, I'm OK with it.

It's a representation of the crossroads, which are considered scared to travelers.

>Unoriginal
>Is not from the real world
>Cross is not the Roman cross

I'm also going to ignore you moving the goalposts because I'm not fucking retarded like you.

maybe it's just a blunt wooden sword

>yo dog, heard you liked crosses

>fantasy game has clerics
>they wear crosses
>because they are christians

I think most players can digest a religion not ripped straight from the real world. Yeah they don't give a fuck about "The Battle of Yendorisa in the Year 670 in which...blah blah blah" or the entire backstory of your DMPC but coming across a alien religion shouldn't be that difficult unless your players are retarded and have ADHD.

Because the cross represents real world ideals, most of which are specific to real world events and philosophies.

Wheat, horses, etc. are byproducts of human growth and development that if humanity were to reset would probably be rediscovered more times than not. Christianity however I think is unique to specific sequences of events in our history that doesn't really make sense in a fantasy world.

>using fish-related imagery (trident) to replace cross for your non!Christianity
Wow. Really creative.

>fantasy game has warriors
>they wear armour

You weren't the only person in the argument, shithead. Are you really that self-absorbed?

Dude it's a fucking catholic cross with two upward lines added to the arms. In the first two games it was LITERALLY just the catholic cross, only D3 turned it into a Psi symbol.
>The Light exists in everyone, regardless of race, religion, or social status (the most basic tenet of the faith).
>Embrace the Light with total devotion.
>Trust in the glory of the Light, for its authority supersedes all power in the mortal world.
>Resist all things evil.
You're saying that none of these have any basis in the real world?

It should be "twang" not "loose", loose sounds crap.

>space marines
>believing in a fake dietry

>fantasy game has peasants
>they wear sacks

>Looks like a cathedral
>Candles and podium is very reminiscent of a church.
>Knight in tabard kneeling to it
>Obviously linkage of religion and warrior caste

So apparently so long as you don't use a cross then everything else that makes it look like Christianity is fine.

You were directly addressing me faggot.

>Obviously linkage of religion and warrior caste
how the fuck many societies are there where those two weren't linked?

Being influenced by history/mythology is one thing, but when this nigga looks like he got teleported straight from the Crusades and given a fantasy weapon it just looks goofy.

>Christianity however I think is unique to specific sequences of events in our history that doesn't really make sense in a fantasy world.
Moving goalpost again? Why two sticks at a right angle are so special?

Why not have your evil fantasy country be called North Korea? Why not have the barkeep give you a cold Budweiser? Why not have the local sage be called Bill Nye? Why not have a group of human separatists and call them the Black Panthers? Why not have a wizard called Gandalf?

Not even other denominations of Christianity had monastic knight orders. Try harder with your goalpost moving.

I'm saying that you're moving the goalpost to basis in the real world and being completely different from the Roman cross, when the original argument was for the EXACT SAME cross with no alteration and being of a religion that EXISTS in the real world.
Learn when you are beaten and stop posting.

Yes? Did you read the OP?

What if not!Christian Roman cross is actually not!Sword of Gabriel pointing at sinners/devils below?

It would be one thing if the religion used crosses as its symbol and that was it. But they never stop there do they? They always mimic real world Catholic holy orders, and some even look like monks, tonsure and all.

It's less just the cross itself, and more that the the cross is used in combination with other NotChristian things. So it becomes quite apparent that said person wanted NotChristianity in their setting, which I find to be lazy.

The connotation and religious significance probably wouldn't be the same, yes, but it's an incredibly simple symbol it would appear again.

What if your mother never truly loved you?

>character is a holy warrior
>deck him in regalia with symbols universally recognized as holy
the guy in your pic has a fucking red cross, not even the christian variety. What is the appropriate level of abstraction from a real-world symbol that satisfies your autism?

>the equestrian class wasn't linked to religion
>the kshatriya weren't linked to religion
>the jaguar warriors weren't linked to religion
>the egyptian soldiery weren't linked to religion
nigga you got it backwards, the linkage of a warrior caste with religion is no more unique to Christianity than the belief in disembodied spirits.

>the equestrian class wasn't linked to religion
>the kshatriya weren't linked to religion
>the jaguar warriors weren't linked to religion
>the egyptian soldiery weren't linked to religion
>if I ignore whatever is being said to me I win the argument
>also let me pretend that in times when religion played major role in society all classes weren't linked to religion in one way or another
And which of those were monastic orders?

Move goalposts harder, we never said anything about monasticism until you brought it up to try not to look like a faggot.

It actually doesn't matter, because >54489109 didn't include the words monastic, knight or order.

>paladins
>not not!Monastic Knight Order
Nice attempt at bailing.

Thanks for conceding the argument

That's a plus sign...

>I can't trace back more than a single post because it will prove me wrong

Anks aren't from a major modern day religion so it's different. I mean people use ancient celtic/norse/egyptian stuff for easy flavour all the time