Doesn't making him not care about anyone kind of ruin the point?

Slaanesh loves me! I know this because she tentacle-fucks me nightly!

What about gork and mork?

It makes the tragedy even deeper.

The emperor always believed in Mankind, but he never believed in humans. His arrogance and disconnection from humanity blinded him to problems of the Imperium and lead directly to the Horus Hersey

I think we can concilliate the "Emperor doesn't give a fuck about individuals" and the "Emperor loves humanity".
The guy had to expunge all those feelings, put himself at the top of the Olympus just to be able to move foward. Like the other God-Emperor, he was alone in the top and knows it. If he stopped to care about individuals he would go mad with the grief and remorse, the loss and all. So, what you do when you're basically the only one person in the whole universe who is functionally immortal and with hability to see far beyond anyone else knowing that the universe is filled with homidical abominations of all kinds and forms?
You harden your heart, you put everyone else out, you reduce people to numbers and tools, you create tube born people and address them by the numbers. You can't relate to them for real for a minute, else you would fail and everything, everyone, everything you saw, lived for, created, suffered, sacrificed would be gone. Poof! Cosmic dust!
Now, add to that 10k years in a torture chair, you being slowly turned into a god-like being away from any material sensation, directly dealing with god-like incorporeal beings, which are totally alien to humanity, uncapable to be anything else beyond their own murderous monomanical natures. Add to all the emotional charge you receive from trillions of people calling your name, claiming for your protection. Now you can feel them, hear them, the same way you can feel the countless people sacrificed to sustain your body.
You can't barely remember what's to be human, to be frail, to have feelings. Your mind is totally taken to keep the doors of hell closed, to focus all that psychic might to allow people to cross the stars and have a chance to survive. You can't even be sure that you're a single will and being anymore, more than ever you mind is getting ripping apart into a trillion pieces.
Yet you endure. the core of the being you were remembers the reason for all of this.

Because grimdark

This. They're the only gods who give a fuck about their people.

Besides nurgle and isha?

And maybe a c'tan?

He never cared about individual humans. Nothing has changed. He was an ends meet the goal kind of guy. He's not going to risk the fate of humanity for one snowflake. Hell, he'll fucking shove humans into blenders for thousands of years if that's what it takes to force them to evolve and become dominant. In fact, that's LITERALLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING RIGHT NOW with the psyker sacrifices.

The fuck is with this "waaah waaah the Emperor isn't a bleeding heart liberal" bullshit. We've known for years he wasn't a nice man and you've all bitched for years too about how he was a "bad father".

Based qt xenos MILF goddess

All the non-Chaos races need to band together to rescue her ASAP

No, it fits with the point.

People in 40k worship a lie. The Emperor was not benevolent and didn't love you.

Emperor cares about humanity, not individual humans. This is what it is to be a true leader.

T. ADB

Well he loved "you", not you.

He loves humanity, not humans.

I guess having a super intellect and having a large perspective is detrimental to interacting with other people.

Not just the Eldar. Do remember that every time Nurgle concocts a new disease or plague to devastate the galaxy/universe, she's the one that whispers the cures for his infections into the minds of *all* mortal races. She is pretty much the most benevolent of all of 40ks God's.

Can't wait to see things ten years from now, when the pendulum has swung around yet again and chaosfags are bitching about how the Emperor is 'too nice'.

That will never happen, black library will never accept a religious figure that is nice.

But you missed the total point, the Emperor DOES care! But he cares about the species as a whole, thus he doesn't have the time to waste on individual members of said species.

Honestly the way Veeky Forums whines about the Emperor 'not loving his sons enough' is hilarious cause it mirrors who whiny Horus and Guilliman are. They don't get that the Emperor isn't so petty to care about one member of the species over its collective fate.

To be fair Asuryan likes the Eldar too. The Phoenix Lord novels reveal he's sending his dreams forward into the future, since he foresaw his death, to guide them from beyond the Grave.

Isha actually recently even had some plot role. In Hand of Darkness Yvrainne goes on a spiritual quest and ends up finding a 'Rose of Isha' which are only supposed to bloom where the Goddess herself has walked. This Rose then safely lets Yvrainne enter the Garden of Nurgle and take the Hand of Darkness.

Seems Isha is getting more proactive in helping her kids again. Who knows, we might see Isha joining the resurgent Pantheon of Khaine, Cegorach and Ynnead eventually.

Cucks with daddy issues wanted an edgy incompetent autistic moron that gives the main antagonist its greatest assets in real space(Chaos Space Marines) through easily avoidable means instead of a benevolent exemplar of humanity.

>Autists missing the point

The problem isn't that he's not a nice man, the problem is that his thought process is ass-backwards. We care about humanity because we emote with the individual members of humanity. If the Emperor does not care about individuals, WHY does he care about humanity as a whole? If he doesn't find value in our solitary lives or actions, why does he care about us as a group? What possible interest does he find in a species which he so far transcends he may as well not be a part of anymore?

I care about my country. The idea of a nation. The idea of our collective superiority over other trashy countries out there.

I don't care about the individuals in my country. I am better than them. I am richer than them. I know better than them. I am superior.

You live in another country. You are not me. Ergo, you are inferior. If it was within my power, I would destroy you because you are taking space that rightfully belongs to me.

>All this Gods caring or not nonsese
A farmer doesnt have to care about his crops, but its a poor one that doesnt have the sense to tend to them.

This only goes to show how human the Primarchs were, in that they sought approval and appreciation from their creator - they were no robots, despite what Dorn might make you think ( he got the job of Praetorian because he was the only one who was the ideal primarch in that he did everything and never asked any questions or questioned any orders.)

The Emperor, after living for thousands of years and having power to bend and shape reality, did the only thing any being in his position would do - focus on the long game. Even Primarchs couldn't match up to his vision or comprehend what he did.
You could call Emperor a sociopath or an inhuman monster, and you would be correct. A being that can look beyond personal relationships and focus on the future of trillions across the whole Galaxy cannot be human. If it were, too many things would hold him back and would make him give in to the very things the Primarchs were accusing him of, which is pride, arrogance and immense hubris.

To be able to relate themselves to him in any measurable way and to justify the things he did in their eyes, humans named him their god. For all intents and purposes, this is both apt and fitting, not to mention it resolves the question of his care for humanity as a whole as opposed to individual beings.
Really, if people did what he wanted to the letter and have not questioned him, Heresy would have not happened and more people would be alive. So he does care, but he has no time to chide or correct you if you fall of the train. Too much is going on to stop everything every time a single person falls.

>geedub
>ten years from now

He appears to care up to a certain point, actually, about individual humans and Primarchs. Nobody can give Lorgar that many second chances without some degree of care, or Magnus a chance to redeem himself (after he royally screwed fucking everything ever), or refusing to believe that Horus would betray him like that until he had overwhelming evidence, or the sheer amount of shit he puts up with from Malcador, the way he treasures the lives of his Custodians and regularly chats with them conversationally about all manner of things, or various other bits and pieces throughout.

If he has to then yeah, he's going to sacrifice them, but he does care, some more than others. He himself admits that he would not spend the lives of his Custodes if he could possibly avoid it. He is miserly with their lives, even though he knows they'd happily walk to their deaths if he commanded it.

He only really cared about maclador because he was the only one who came close to being like him.
Nobody knows how old maclador was, he was the 2nd most powerful human psyker and he played the long game too. Apart from him there are a few custodes but they dont understand like Maclador did, theyre just bodyguards.

Oh come on, Girlyman saw into the mind of the Emperor without the deception of his human mask. He saw his memories and he saw how the Emperor viewed him. The Emperor did not see him as a son, comrade, or a friend. He saw him as a tool. Something to be used and discarded.

The Emperor true self is monstrous and callous. I mean for fuck sake how many times do the Perpetuals in the HH series say that the Emperor is a total heartless bastard that they wouldn't have sided with if it weren't for the Chaos Gods being way worse. Now the knowledge of these ancients was confirmed by Girlyman.

Yes we can.

Amass followers and "totally not worshiper honest guiz *wink* *wink*", kill off the competition and ascend to godhood.

anyone know where it covers what the emps said to Roboutte when he visited the imperial palace? I want to know what was actually said between them but all I've found is some hints in the Dark Imperium novel.

I don't need it spoon-fed, just need to know what book I need to read in order I find out.

isnt one

ADB is a lore ruining hack, news at 11

>Emperor is a heartless monster setting everyone up in his personal game against Chaos Gods

don't you know the only reason he wanted the Webway was to get some Eldar chicks?

On a serious note, there is enough lore already established to have it both ways, not to mention the constant "everything is right, nothing is canon". Emperor is a loving caretaker of Humanity when the story/lore needs him and he is a monster with no connection to humans when you need it in the story/want grimdark. Pretty much like all the lore for the last 30 years.

I think the Emperor remains enigmatic and hard to read as much as we would like to have all the details and know all his plans (which we do). His personality and mindset is impossible to pin down, we vaguely know what he plans but there is never a clarified, definite description of his mind or identity, everything is from (biased) bystander perspective.

Dude, when author talk about their future plans we already know the truth.

They are redoing the final fight in HH and we will see again how much the Emperor (doesn't care) about his "sons".

t. Every characterization of the Emperor ever

Why are newfags so out of touch with actual 40K fluff?

Welp, if that happens then screw GW for allowing it.
I wonder though, how will they explain Emperor getting mortally wounded if he has no reason to hold back.

Yeah, and the Emperor is a pastiche of that shitty thought process.

I don't know, why do you pretend to know shit when you're probably under 35 years old and weren't around for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd?

>Really, if people did what he wanted to the letter and have not questioned him, Heresy would have not happened and more people would be alive.

>If nobody rebelled against the Emperor, the greatest act of rebellion against the Emperor would never have happened

A for tautology, F for missing the point.

So if there was another nation which was collectively superior to yours, you would naturally join them instead?

Otherwise stop bullshitting.

Then why does he keep giving Lorgar second chances? Shitty tools get thrown out, and he didn't throw Lorgar out.

Why does he refer to Angron by his number, but Horus by his name? You don't talk about your tools like they have names.

Why does he casually chat so often with his Custodes, like he cares about their opinions? If they're just meatshields for him who gives a fuck what they think, just program loyalty into them and be done with it, he doesn't need to bother with elaborate deceptions and waste his time talking.

Why does he put up with Malcador and accept that much criticism from him?

If he's just pretending with psyker power to make people want to love him, why do the Sisters, who are immune to his psychic bullshit, still collectively agree with him?

And really, Rowboat's not in any mental frame of mind to have a frank conversation with Emps in 40k, and neither is the Emperor. Even though it's implied that the Emperor was the one who saved him from death back in 31k or so when Fulgrim first nearly killed him.

He doesn't care about every individual human, that's pretty clear. But he does care about some of them, up to a point. If he doesn't then it makes no sense even within the context of BL's own lore rape.

Of course, funnily enough, Guilliman realises at the end of DI that the Emperor was right, and finds himself doing exactly what he whines internally that the Emperor was doing.

I think you missed the point. The idea is, people were begging emotion from Emperor, all the while missing that fulfilling His plan to the iota was the love and faith he was showing in humanity. Everyone could be cream-puff cheery cheery after he job has been done, but not before, and especially not Emperor. To care about Marines, or Primarchs would be to care about the abhuman mutants he created for war and who were not going to rule or live alongside humanity. To care about individual humans or psykers all the while the whole of human race is at stake is just misguided. Anyone with Emperor's knowledge and insight would do the same.

No, I wouldn't join it. I cannot countenance something superior than me or my homeland, so I would plan to subvert and ruin that other nation. After all, they are not me and what isn't me is inherently inferior and deserve ruination.

Sounds like you're the one missing the point.

>Lorgar and Angron

"A broken Sword can still cut".

Ko'vash said this to La'Kais who was struggling by the fact that he views himself as broken member of the Greater Good and thus of no use to his people and Empire.

If the Tau figured that one out, then so did the Emperor. Angron and Lorgar were still of use.

You have seen what the Emperor did with the other two that weren't.

>If he's just pretending with psyker power to make people want to love him, why do the Sisters, who are immune to his psychic bullshit, still collectively agree with him?

They are normal humans. They are vulnerable to being brainwashed (by themselves or others). Despite their nature, the Sisterhood came to worship the Emperor as a god.

>Why does he put up with Malcador and accept that much criticism from him?

Because he is fundamentally human and needed someone to talk to. To explain things to. He is egotistical like that.

>Why does he casually chat so often with his Custodes, like he cares about their opinions?

Same reason as above. Also the Custodes he considers to be works of art. Each one he personally created, They are to him tools but they were his master pieces. It pains him to see his work destroyed. The same way an artist is pained when his art is destroyed. He doesn't care about them as persons.

>But he does care about some of them, up to a point.

There is no love in his heart for any men. He is a monster.

Calling him a monster just legitimizes his godhood. How many times have you seen people and fictional characters call a deity monstrous or a monster.

No, you missed the point that you cannot expect blind obedience from people without telling them why. Every plan in history would have succeeded if people just did what the planner wanted, but anyone, especially someone with Emperor's knowledge and insight would know that that's not how people work. Planning with love is easy. How you execute the plan is the entire point.

Oh you edgy little bitch.

Hello Carnac.

Yes but it delegitimize his humanity which is the point.

And by the way. According to Girlyman's practical, the Emperor is not a god because a being such as him deserves no worship.

Anyways, I just flicked through MoM. He does call Horus by his number a lot.

>‘The Sixteenth sails for Terra to crown itself king,’ said the boy. ‘Can you imagine if I allowed that to happen? A weapon, held in the wrong hands, installing itself as the lord of a whole species. Terra would be in ashes before the first sunrise.’

I have no idea why this line of thought offends you so.

He does a lot of philosophical back and forth about whether or not the emperor is a god.

Because he is obviously inherently inferior to us and deserves ruination.

He calls him by name at the end, when he's musing to himself over the events of the book. When he speaks it always seems to be less what he says and more what people hear, like he's speaking with his mind, thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and people hear and interpret it according to their own beliefs and ideologies. Arkhan Land sees him as the perfect scientist, and that's what he hears. The Custodes see him as their liege-lord and themselves as his confidantes. Even Daemons see and comprehend him as their Anathema.

Of course.

So wouldn't it be simply easier to tell everyone "I'm a god, I have reasons?"
On the converse side, the Imperial Truth was just fine for the vast majority of people, Lorgar and Co. sperged out because they weren't catered to when he bloody knew order of the day was logic and reason.

How come loyalists saw everything just fine and even if they were lukewarm about Emperor himself, they still went along with it for sake of mankind (Jaghatai, Guilliman), which was the point? how much of a maladjusted and broken person you have to be to put your personal feelings in a way of human survival, surely, even without having all the details, Primarchs kinda sensed what the deal way.

>He doesn't care about them as persons.
Then he should personally create them to be unthinkingly obedient to his will and stop wasting his time talking to them as if he needs to justify himself or educate them.

They would obey him unquestionably no matter what. The Emperor justifying himself to them is a matter of ego. He needs them to understand his plan even when they don't need to. It's the same thing with the Necron Overlords explaining their plans to the ranks of Lychguard and immortals who would obey no matter what.

Here is the last bit of the novel. He continues to call him by his number.

He's talking to a Custodian about his traitorous son.

I guarantee you're a pussy that can't even benchpress your bodyweight lol

When I look at humanity vs individual humans.
I see that humanity can work together to get shit done.

however when I look at humans they tend to have long gaps they have to travel from one point to the other in their cognitive dissonance.
in my expierence its how humans want to help others yet are very selfish and self serving, and don't really have the best understanding of what empathy is.

if Emps is the paragon of humanities qualities, this one makes complete sense to me.

He calls him Horus in the first highlighted passage.

A god is a reflection of his worshippers.

Look at the Imperium, look at how they view themselves, how they debase their existence to keep a corpse-empire functioning.

How could the Emperor care for his faithful, when they don't?

It's interesting that in MoM the Emperor's golden light and psychic glow is described as warm and sunny, even when he's not actively employing it to one end or another or even to the senses of the Mechanicum members. In Dark Imperium it's changed, changing to cold and harsh after his battle with Horus and in Guilliman's recollection of their conversation.

What? Humans on a general basis are fucking pathetic weaklings and never reach their full potential. Only occasional individual humans get anything done.

Perhaps people are missing that element of benevolence and empathy that was there prior to HH - don't get me wrong, he was still a warlord and waged bloody wars, but at least he was personable to a level. By 40k, he turned into what the general human gestalt has been feeding him for 10k years - cold, impersonal godhood.

so... he loves the idea of me, not the real me?

Maybe I should break up with him after all...

He loves you, user. He doesn't love (You). (You) are an individual. He cannot afford to care about (You), because (You) detract from being user by being identifiable.

Oh, user-kun, I am so confused

Nurgle-san said he would love me for who I am, not because I would be one of his, that he would be able to show how much he cares about me, and how much he wants to keep me safe and full of love if i just break up with God-Emperor-senpai

Why should I stay with God-Emperor-senpai if he doesn't even seem to care about me like Nurgle-san?

Nurgle is Reddit. You should stay away from that place, and remain among user, where you will be safe in the God-Emperor's light.

I-If you say so, user-kun...

i was talking about the tendency for humans to get together as a group to get shit done.
either under comaand of one person, or just one glaring problem that a bunch of people will no longer tolerate.

Yep, this is basically the Emperor.

The point of him is that he's a metaphor for mankind as a whole. He's cunning, and innovative, and driven, and capable of great kindness. But he's hamstrung by tribalism and xenophobia and basic, ugly hubris. No matter how ascendant he seems, the Emperor is subject to all the same flaws as humanity a whole, and this is why he fails.

The fact that people seem to think this poster is being serious just shows how accurate and realistic this portrayal is - we all know humans will often act like this.

By the way, it's this relatively basic use allegory that elevates 40K fluff, at least conceptually, over most.

There's nothing hugely more creative about 40K fluff in comparison to, say, Infinity or Warmahordes. A lot of 40K is just fantasy in spess. It doesn't have better characters than these other franchises - in fact, the only really good character-driven piece of fiction for a wargame I've seen in the last decade was Infinity-related. But 40K was created by people trying to say something about humanity, something that engaged with the time it was created in, and in doing so they created a setting that we can connect with on a deeper level that most.

>He's cunning, and innovative, and driven, and capable of great kindness
>implying Black Library aren't doing their best to obliterate all of these besides "driven"

Xeno"phobia" is NOT one of the emperor's flaws. He kicked the alien's asses because the moment the age of strife hit all our former alien buddies and allies enslaved, genocided, and generally did bad shit to humanity. So Big E does what any good head of state would do, and nipped them in the bud. Plus when you add in the existence of chaos, not being afraid of aliens leads to maybe being curious about aliens. Which leads to acceptance of aliens. Oh look, these aliens worship these four gods, isn't that fascinating? I got to tell home about this!
And then boom, your galaxy is fucking dead, kiddo.

Except that's not true.

In writing, SOME aliens - mostly old enemies or races that are hostile to everyone, like orks, jumped on mankind.

It's canon that a lot of aliens left mankind alone or even tried to help them. The Emperor is just a dickhead.

Nurgle is a fat, smelly, and ugly neckbeard that will never accomplish anything. You would be embarrassed to bring him home to your parents.
The Emperor is a tall muscular chad. His golden radiance will awe others when they realize that he is not only beautiful but successful. Your parents would be so proud of you.

What about Isha?

But the collective belief of humanity on him is the opposite. He's a caring and personal God who sustains you against everything the galaxy throws at you.

[citation needed]

You parents should be equally flummoxed by either choice.

If you date Nurgle, your kids will be corpulent and ugly but kind, virile and extremely successful.

If you date the Emperor, your kids will be autistic failures, but at least they won't be manlets.

But user-kun, what about the captain of the school wrestling team, Khorne-sama?

He looks soooo strong, and already so successful, and even offered to help me become strong as well

See, user-kun? He wants to take care of me, make my parents proud of how strong and independent i can be, with someone who cares

Everyone would be jealous of you for having a hot trophy gf. You would have a great relationship until you realize that you're not her only lover. She's a massive slut that's been banging your friends and dad behind your back.

Khorne is a YouTube comment section. Don't defile yourself.

Ceograth? The deceiver? Void Dragon?

Yes.

Khorne cares about is what is on the inside. Specifically your blood and skull. He may act like he's cool and tough but really he's a creepy weirdo. You'll get tired of his one dimensional ways and inability to have a deep intellectual conversation. He also doesn't know how to keep his voice down.

Well I think she is too nice to cheat on you

More like someone who drags you off to save the rainforest, AGAIN.

And you would end up heartbroken and defeated. She has nice qualities but monogamy isn't one of them.

She has a guilt complex, if she broke your heart; she would implode herself