Could Melkor at the height of his power (when he's singlehandedly fighting and winning against all of notHeaven) defeat...

No he didn't. Melkor just sang a song. Eru was the one that made that song into reality, like taking a child's shitty drawing of a horse and genetically engineering a real-life version of it.

Chaos Gods operate on galactic (maybe even universal) scale. Melkor couldn't even conquer one planet. Melkor BTFO.

I don't know how or why Tolkienfags get this wrong so reliably, but I've got to say it again: vala, maia, and ainu are singular. Valar, maiar, and ainur are plural. And ainur are a category that encompasses both valar and maiar, so you don't need to say shit like "valar and ainur."

Ainur were the first beings made by Eru and the strongest.

Valar were the next line, basically angels.

Maiar were the last line, basically lesser angels.

Melkor was the strongest Ainu and was the top of the pyramid, so much so that it's explicitly said every single other creation of Eru together is weaker than he is.

>In terms of power levels, Middle-earth is much lower key than 40K.

This is why Warhammer Fantasy makes a much better comparison, before GW went full-retard and decided to merge the universes. The Fantasy Dark Gods were a lot more grounded in power and had similarities to Melkor thanks to the heavy Tolkien influence on everything.

I think Melkor at his height could potentially stalemate one of the Chaos Gods of 40k, but would lose badly against all four.

He could easily beat one of the Chaos Gods of Fantasy and probably stalemate all four of them, but it wouldn't be a clear outcome, especially if you throw something like Malal into the mix who himself is inspired by the Melkor character.

No, Ainur was a word that included both Maiar and Valar.

Tolkien was a shit mythology weaver but a good world builder.

Melkor literally gets btfo by Feanor and Fingolfin even though they are functionally normal elves.

>feanor refuses to give melkor the silmarils while melkor is in valinor
>melkor leaves then returns and kills feanor with no trouble

>fingolfin goes to duel melkor after melkor wiped out an entire army of elite elves by sending fire from thangorodrim at them
>fingolfin is given the powers of an unnamed ainu (possibly ulmo) and fights him
>wounds melkor but dies

How did either of them BTFO Melkor?

And if we're being particular then in Warhammer Fantasy Aenarion's rage against Chaos causes them and their daemons to "tremble" at his wrath, and he BTFOs four greater daemons.

He had godpowers on his side but still. In fantasy really powerful elves tend to do crazy shit, including scaring gods/demigods.

Spotted the retard that can't read.

The height of Melkor's power is before and during the Singing of Creation. Melkor is the mightest of the Ainur at this point, and helps create not just the universe, but concepts such as time.
It's really not possible to gauge his strength vs the Chaos gods at this point in time. He is second only to Eru at this point, but Eru is literally Omnipotent. It's impossible to really understand what second to infinity means in "power levels."

Once he arrives on Middle Earth, he could probably be considered mightier than the original conception of oldhammer Chaos Gods, but the not the post-40k versions.

Nope. Melkor never fought Feanor, and when he fought Fingolfin (who was among the most powerful of Elves to have ever existed), he was literally destroying the land around them in their fight, but Fingolfin was too quick. He still ended up killing the elf.

>and helps create not just the universe, but concepts such as time.

Except he didn't. Melkor sang a song of discord, but everything that was created was created by Eru. He turned the song of ALL the Ainur into reality. They just did a bit of singing.

Tolkien's creation songs were taken from Nordic mythology that rhythmic words could carry divine power, the same kind of thing in Skyrim for example.

Melkor's song was able to influence creation and shift it and convince many of the Vala to join with him to conjure up more power.

Eru, the almighty god figure, had to step up his power several times to finally shut out Melkor. Though Tolkien says Eru could stop Melkor any time he wanted, it's still there that Melkor was able to challenge the power of the mythology's god itself.

No, it's not that Melkor influenced creation, it's that Eru chose not to alter the blueprints despite Melkor's discord. The song itself was not the act of creation, it was basically a celestial description, and Eru went ahead and brought it into existence himself.

>The only person in the setting he's less powerful than is Eru
Wasn't Tulkas supposed to be ahead of him?

By the time Tulkas came to throw down, Melkor was already massively weaker from all his constant fighting.

Melkor is literally stated to be the second most powerful being inside the existing universe after God, the malignant outside evil force itself, and powerful enough that all the other powerful angelic beings together almost failed to win over him. He's literally the Devil from Catholic theology.
That said it's a retarded question in the first place.

>Melkor is literally stated to be the second most powerful being inside the existing universe after God

No, he was the most powerful Ainur that Eru created. It's still unknown where Ungoliant came from, and she almost ate Melkor like a snack. And even she was driven back by a host of Balrogs, so she wasn't that strong herself.

If Melkor is the Lucifer analogue, that would make him several orders of magnitude more powerful than some jumped-up warp spirits given that Lucifer is literally the second most powerful being in the entire creation.

>Tolkien was a shit mythology weaver but a good world builder.
I thought his weak point is actually write coherent stories?

Lucifer was just the name of some human king in the Bible.

Michael has always been considered the most powerful under God. He even beats Satan in Revelation. And his name literally means "like God".

err, no he isn't.
He was highest amongst the angels

No Michael means "who is like God?" and is a question sentence.

No, that would be a literal translation, which takes away from the poetic nature that's basically saying "I am, not you, Satan".

No, Angels are not made in Likeness of God, only humans are mentioned by this title.

Quis ut Deus?

Nobody said angels were. Power and appearance aren't exclusive.

Angels are not made in the likeness of God because they were made at the same time and have the same essence. Satan was right, God is a tyrant, Jesus is a smug cunt.

There is God and there are beings that are made in image and likeness of God: Humans (well, according to scripture).
All the rest are mere speculation known as theologoumenons.

Why do your first sentence and second sentence have nothing to do with eachother?

So you've just proved my point: humans are made in the likeness of God, but not anywhere near as powerful obviously. So power and appearance aren't synonymous.

>Doesn't know the -el suffix or what it means
>Tries to argue Christian cosmology

I bet you even think Satan was originally evil.

God transcends creation and nothing of creations shares his essence. Every creation was made out of nothing.

>tries to get involved in theology
>thinks Satan is a name, not a title

You're out of your depth, son.

>Thinks that I think that

Putting words in my mouth just makes you sound more stupid. I never said anything that even implied I believe that. I guess you can't win any argument without attempting to change what your opponent says for your own benefit, huh?

I was talking about angels and their position in Christian theology, but whatever.
Humans are superior than Angels, so stating that "[Angel name] is second strongest being" is wrong, since humans are superior by birthright and potential.

Oh, well if it's a question of power between angels, we can look to revelation to see that Michael is the strongest. He leads the armies, and he overthrows the Devil.

But still, you're confusing power with importance. Humans might be more important to God, but Angels are still stronger, and Michael is the top of the pops.

>revelation
Its largely an allegory with hidden messages and currently we dont know what it really means at the end. This is one of the main reasons that The book of revelations is not read during church services.

And its not about importance only. Paul says that Angels shall be subordinate to humans (1 Cor. 6:3) and are called co-heirs with Christ, that clearly states strength of humans as inferior cannot rule over superior.
And strength is a relative subject to begin with. Are we talking about knowledge? Then yes, Angels have more, but it is useless to discuss this, since after death we will gain that information anyways. Are we talking about creative power? Then Humans are clearly superior, because this is one of the definitive attributes that makes us like God. Any who, It is natural to think that supreme beings after God are crown of creation: Humans.

I was just going to ignore you for your weak trolling, but I'll give you one more post to explain why you're an idiot. Otherwise, you might not ever improve.

First, you're suggesting I'm putting words in your mouth and that it somehow makes me sound stupid. Yet you did exactly that trying to suggest I don't know what -el means (something that even a layman should know by now), despite nothing I'd said suggesting that. Hypocrisy is glaring.

Second, yes, what you posted DOES imply you believe Satan is a name, because you said, and I quote, "I bet you even think Satan was originally evil". The mere fact that you suggest Satan as a single entity, not a title, shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Third, you've immediately jumped to being hostile. Not sure why, it's probably because you feel inadequate in some way, but that's your issue to sort out, not mine. If you want someone to "argue" with you, start by behaving like an adult, not an angsty teen.

Finally, I won't be responding to you any more. I know you'll think it's for some inane reason that massages your ego, so go ahead and enjoy. But in truth, it's because you aren't worth my time.

Peace.

>Any who, It is natural to think that supreme beings after God are crown of creation: Humans.

But it would be wrong in the context of power. I don't mean knowledge, I mean straight up power. Michael is the second most powerful being in Christian theology. The only human to even get close was also a physical manifestation of God, so not even a separate entity.

Also, By the way, Michael is not a supreme Angel in a sense that he is not a seraph
Neither is Lucifer, since he is described as a Cherub

>But it would be wrong in the context of power. I don't mean knowledge, I mean straight up power.
What do you mean with "straight up power"? Weightlifting? Push ups? If you are seriously talking about this then this is ridiculous.
If you mean "other powers", then we are back to the subject of knowledge.

Potency. Might. Strength. You know, if Vegeta used his scouter on him, he'd see his power level was over 9,000. If a being of weaker power were to face him, they wouldn't be able to defeat him. That sort of power. I mean, you're on Veeky Forums, I'm actually surprised you're still not grasping this. Surely you get what "power" is?

A boulder on a cliff holds a great deal of power, but it isn't really powerful in its own right

This is exactly what I meant, You are assuming, sort of say, "physical strenght" and in a small timeframe (compared to eternity).

>Surely you get what "power" is?
By that I meant that there are many types of "power" we can describe and assume. Be it physical, mental and so on.
But at the end it all goes down on knowledge. We are not weaker, in fact, we have larger potential than any kind of Angel. Only thing that is holding us back is ignorance chained by our temporary fallen decadent state. Full potential of mankind shall be revealed after endtimes, when we shall gain all the knowledge that I am talking about and even more and gain new, glorified bodies that shall not be like our current decadent and corruptible ones.
And besides, Angels are not corporeal in the first place, so they cannot operate on matter unless allowed by God (and even then they can only execute specific operations that are in order), so there is another bound to them, while humans dont have such bounds.

Also, As I said here Neither Michael, nor Lucifer are strongest amongst Angels, Seraphim are
For further information You can read an Areopagetic Corpus, specifically "On the Celestial Hierarchy"