How to change the geography so that west-central europe is dominated by a culture? Like russia or china

Add an an access to a warm sea for Russia

Neither Russia nor China are homogenous.

Russia is the last colonial empire

The US and China are just as much colonial Empires. True Chinese are Han.

Put a big grassy plain south of Tours instead of wooded hills. Then the Umayyads would have beaten the Franks at the Battle of Poitiers in 732, there never would have been a Charlemagne, and Islam could well have become the monolithic late Medieval culture.

>How to change the geography so that west-central europe is dominated by a culture?
The thing is that the North European plain is not only just a thing, it has historically been France's biggest geopolitical obstacle bar none. The French have aimed since at least Louis XIV (though more likely since the Middle Ages) to achieve their "natural borders", corresponding to the borders of Gaul. This would mean France would be deliniated by the Pyrenees to the South, the Alps to the East, the Rhine to the North and the sea on all other sides. This would make France damn near impenetrable and a lot of its expansions in the Early Modern age were directed towards this. For example, in the War of the Grand Alliance Louis XIV actually relinquished some gains in Catalonia because they'd be more difficult to defend, he was already pleased with his southern border as is.

What's my point? There's no geographical region why France, Germany and the Benelux shouldn't be one and the same. In fact, one might even argue that historically France got "lucky" in that they, and not Germany, were the first to centralize power. Had Germany (or rather the "Holy" "Roman" "Empire") been ahead of the curve, we might've seen them unite Central and Western Europe.

That, and what this guy said The only real geographical feature that might help make unification quicker is removing the Rhine, and even that's rather iffy. Removing the Low Lands might help too, though that's more of a political barrier than a geographical or even military one.

tfw we got so close to success, yet so far.

Yeah, as far as superpowers go the Germans are the biggest disappointment of them all. I remember this Cracked image macro which listed the lifespans of all three reichs and extrapolated that the Fourth Reich would last minutes if not seconds.

"we" meaning French people, there.
Stupid 1871.

I think it's beautiful that after one dictator after another tried to unite Europe through murder and oppression, union is really happening through democracy, negotiation, consent, and respect for fundamental rights.

Shame that a strain of English (not British!) neo-fascists hate human rights so much they'll isolate themselves from sheer spite, but the good news is when the UK does rejoin it'll be on normal terms without the weird feudal exceptions that Thatcher exacted.

>Two world wars, the rise of communism and decolonization all could've been prevented
Bismarck was a mistake

Hey you Frenchies did pretty damn well, two victories for every setback. The EU owes more to Napoleon than to Bismark. The US of A owes our existence to you more than to perfidious Albion, and that connection of the heart runs deep.

>union is really happening
nope

>through democracy
nope

>negotiation
maybe at a higher level

>consent
I'll take "what is the Lisbon Treaty?" for 500 points

>and respect for fundamental rights
with the defintion of these rights being extended to their limits, to the point where a nation not respecting anchor babies is deemed a violation of human rights (see: Zambrano case)

>Shame that a strain of English (not British!) neo-fascists
Even if we assume UKIP is neo-fascist (it isn't), the people who voted for Brexit heavily, HEAVILY outnumber UKIP voters. The "Leave" camp even actively flirted with "Asians" by promising them that "Commonwealth" migration would replace migration from the EU.

>hate human rights
EU =/= ECHR

Uniting under Napoleon would be better for Europe in every way, shape or form than this retarded auto-genocidal Fourth Reich. The British are opting out first, Merkel's utter violation of the Dublin Agreement in the name of "Wir schaffen das" is causing friction with Eastern Europe so they'll probably start dropping out too after Britain reveals that leaving the EU isn't the end of the world, and then it'll just end up being a Franco-German suicide pact.

>freedom fries
>cheese eating surrendering monkey
>Leaving an accord wearing our capital's name.
The connection runs deep indeed.

Eastern Europe in the EU was a mistake.

Inviting countries other than France, Germany and the Benelux was a mistake, desu.

Man, you guys really like throwing around the word genocidal.
It's going to make it lack oomph when the government starts systemically coming into your home and killing you and everyone like you based on race.

Putting your weird /pol/ rant aside, since the Brexit referendum the UK economy is now smaller than France's and has the lowest growth rate in Europe, the Tory government is at its own throats and has gone through the degrading spectacle of kissing Trump's pasty ass only to find he prefers Macron anyway.

Meanwhile Europe is more united than its ever been, the quasi-fascist peers of UKIP are on the retreat, and even little Greece is back on the bond market.

Democracy and love are winning. Anglo-fascism is losing. /pol/ is weeping and trying to justify Trump's utter failure.

>Inviting countries other than France, Germany, the Benelux, Italy, Spain and Portugal was a mistake
FTFY

Why do you sound like you're crying when you wrote all that?

> France replacing UK as America's preeminent military partner in Europe
They are indeed.

>France replacing UK as America's preeminent military partner in Europe
What do you base this on, other than Trump shaking Macron's hand for 30 seconds?

France will still be a major power in the European Union in two years time, the UK will be a tax haven.

>early Rome is going to get turboshat on by Celts.

The opposite. The Celts would have been steamrolled by the early Romans, wiped from the mat centuries before the Celts could muster a force large enough to even be considered.

>Inviting countries other than France, Germany, the Benelux, the northern half of Italy and Catalonia was a mistake.
Even better.
Switzerland can get in that one if they want, I guess?

>Randomly splitting up Italy and Spain
Why? Why not go for them A E S T H E T I C Roman borders tho?

There would be no early romans.

m8
Gauls attacked various Italian cities and states successfully, they sacked Rome itself for god's sake, they were recognized as fine warriors and were often mercenaries. Do you really think taking off the Alps wouldn't help them spread into Italy?

>The Celts would have been steamrolled by the early Romans
>wat is Brennus

Yet another deluded Romaboo who hasn't ever opened a history book I see.

I may be mistaken, but wasn't the Roman army to a very large part mimicking the Gauls after they abandoned the Greek hoplite style of combat?

No, Samnites, another Italian state from central Italy. Their maniple formations were better suited to their mountainous regions than the relatively rigid phalanx formations which were next to impossible to maintain on anything but flat, even ground.

>Uniting under Napoleon would be better for Europe in every way, shape or form

You gotta be pretty damn liberal to think that.

And by "liberal" I mean "really, really fucking rich".

>The British are opting out first
They're opting out of the globe at large right now, not just the EU. They're basically sacrificing their international standing for petty party politics and if they actually quit the EU, then the Commonwealth nations are certainly going to line up for their pounds of flesh too.

> they sacked Rome itself for god's sake

Rome was pretty much sacked ever 1.5 generations or so though. Folks don't realize that all the early empires of the past barely pass for failed states today.

>Rome was pretty much sacked ever 1.5 generations or so though
After Brennus Rome wasn't sacked until 480 AD though, with only Hannibal ad Portas coming close to being another sack.

you go back in time

or even more back in time

Nice exaggeration.

Bigass rivers flowing East to West across the continent.

>Wilhelm was a mistake
Fixed that for you

Daily reminder that Wilhelm was a retard, who just had it's dick measuring contest in mind
He fucked up all alliances which Bismarck worked for. And the success of Germany also came throughout the reforms of Bismarck

only the second though.

Wilhelm I is Kaiser of the year every year

>I remember this Cracked image macro which listed the lifespans of all three reichs and extrapolated that the Fourth Reich would last minutes if not seconds.
Is there reverse half-life for Reichs or something? And each time Reich exists in the same amounts but with ever diminishing lifespan?

...

History on Veeky Forums was a mistake. No one here knows anything except memes and massive generalizations so it devolves into nations shitposting

>you'll never live in the world where Frederick III brings democratic and constitutional government to Germany and peace to Europe

remove gavelkind

inb4 CK2 memes. Seriously, if the Franks weren't constantly dividing their inheritance the Frankish Empire might have stood a chance of surviving

Gavelkind is hilarious to use in designing campaign settings, it's a great way to explain why a region has never actually unified under a powerful leader yet, or why the Ancient Empire broke up.

And french agriculture might've had a chance without intense EU subsidies.

Seriously France sort your shit out

Eh, the Frankish Empire was too big for them to handle. Even Rome had major issues with large areas.

That and Karl's empire was based primarily on loot and booty. When that ran out, so did central control.

Fun fact: Jared Diamond is a lying sack of shit and nothing he said was accurate. Geography had NOTHING to do with it.

>I think it's beautiful
Please do genuinely kill yourself, now, before you're arrested and executed for crimes against humanity. Because you fucking will be for supporting genocide.
>union is really happening
Not even remotely close to accurate.
>through democracy
Communism, yeah. What about it?
>negotiation, consent, and respect for fundamental rights.
So not the EU, then. Because there's no consent or respect for rights there. Negotiation consists of "vote the way we tell you or you'll be murdered and your replacement will do it."
>Shame that a strain of English (not British!) neo-fascists
You have no fucking idea what a fascist is.
>hate human rights
You don't have the right to enter anyone's country, you stupid motherfucking pile of shit. You don't have the right to steal the sovereignty of a nation, either.
>spite
Not wanting a genocide committed on you is not spite, numbnuts.
>when the UK does rejoin
On Never/Never/Never. That's MM/DD/YYYY format, by the way.

Again, you'll likely kill yourself when you get the knock on the door, but on the off-chance that you're NOT as much of a coward as we know you to be, you'll be executed for crimes against humanity.

That battle was more likely a clash between two patrols. It got larger than life to support the Karling powergrab later on.

Also:
>Islam
>monolithic

>what is reading comprehension
"Could have well become", user. He means in place of Christianity.

Communism was a direct result of the shitty work conditions of the 19th century.
It got international for that reason.

Yeah. Second Willy was a waste of oxygen.

It would not. Basic economics.

>union is really happening
A unified continent full of proles, working for and being ruled by an unelected higher class of bureaucrats.

How fucking wonderful.

I give that back at you.

No religion could be monolithic at that time. No instant information exchange does that for you.

>Lowest growth rate in Europe

It's higher than France, Italy and Spain.

Just ignore him. EU supporters are hyper-nationalists that are being promised something that will never come to pass.

>even little Greece is back on the bond market.
I'll take bets on how long it takes Greece to default. Again. For the 9th time since 1800.

It might help if their citizens paid more than token taxes at some point and didn't retire at age 55 on full government pensions to live on a boat because boats are untaxed.

Wow, /pol/ car really do brain damage it is impressive.
It will be a pretty interesting case study in 20 years time.

Shouldn't you be shitposting in the comments of every Brexit-related article on The Telegraph, Anton?

>You don't have the right to steal the sovereignty of a nation, either.

I'm pretty sure countries joined the EU with the approval of their governments. The EU didn't march an army across the border. You can argue about if they made the right decision but it wasn't stolen.

>Who is brennus

>Why not go for them A E S T H E T I C Roman borders tho?
You want North-Africa in the EU?

>Rome had generations of 500 years

Truly they were the greatest.

>unelected higher class of bureaucrats.
Who is unelected in EU leadership?

Everybody is either elected by national elections or by the people elected by national elections.

Indirect democracy is still democracy.

It became a thing because of a German "philosopher" who had never worked a day in his life, and a German "emperor" who sought to sabotage the Soviet Union. In fact, the Frankfurter School (a German "school of thought") arose precisely to answer the question why the global revolution didn't take place in advanced countries and only in backwards Russia.

As for the shitty work conditions of the 19th century, Napoleon III actually self-identified as a socialist. Part of why he was elected emperor was because of his pamphlet "on the extinction of pauperism" and he actually did improve conditions in France quite a lot. He also freed up the market, forcing the hitherto protected iron industry to compete with Britain and German imports. That only looks like a contradiction if you're a commie.

Yeah after eliminating Islam from the region

If Rome hadn't fallen, Islam wouldn't have been able to conquer the region and spread there at all.

Stop.

>One guy in France at the end of the century had some good idea's about workers so they couldn't have it all that bad!!!

France isn't the only country buddy.

The eastern roman empire was richer, had a bigger army and a stronger bureaucracy then the west. If the west was still around in 600 it would have been fucked by Justinian's disease just like the east and the muzzies would still have done great.

Get rid of the Mediterrenean. Yeah, that would erase south european civilization, but that's how you prevent northern european civilization from existing.

Isn't that just sad?
The world would be so much better if France had had a population growth like other European nations and there were half a billion French people alive right now.

Get rid of the mountains, celts go on a rape train through rome, the rhine,greece and eventually the turks too

Byzantine empire and Persia were weakened by constant hostilities.

>Democracy and love are winning.

heh, good joke

The Roman Empire is fundamentally hindered by having a bloody huge (for the time) sea in the middle of it, meaning that different places are going to develop along different lines simply due to a lack of regular mass contact. We saw this happen historically with the split between East and West. For that matter, all the wealth of the Empire is was concentrated in the East, so any permanent Roman empire is going to be based out of the East, not Rome.

A unified Western Europe along the lines of Dynastic China would need Charlemagne. Hell, Winston Churchill once did some alternate-history musings along those lines.

He also once wrote an essay, "If Lee Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg", which was about someone from a world where the South won the war musing about what it would be like if the North had won the war.

winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour-extras/qif-lee-had-not-won-the-battle-of-gettysburgq

Man liked his Alternate History.

And the plague of Justinian which killed about 5000 people per day in Constantinople, killed 50% of the total population and destroyed trade within the mediterranean

>hindered
>sea
What? Sea allows for quick transportation and trade. It's not a hindrance, quite the opposite.

>fundamentally hindered
You don't know shit user. It was what made the empire viable in the first place.

Transport costs over water are very fast in comparison to road speeds. Also costs of transportation are 12 times higher for road costs then for sea transport.

Stanford has a handy web service with which you can calculate travel speeds and costs in the Roman empire.

Both examples are trips from Genoa to ROme, the top by ship the bottom by road. Road takes 12 days longer then ship and costs almost 24 times more.

orbis.stanford.edu/orbis2012/#mapping

The site in question.

Communism got nothing. It has universally failed.
They're ANTI-nationalists. They stand for the end of all nations.
Not an argument, moishe.
No one cares what you're "pretty sure" about. You're objectively wrong. Governments went against the will of their people. You have no fucking idea what conquest is. We have proven the votes were stolen.

Whew lot of UKIP tears in this thread. I guess when the hate-mongers win a UK referendum or a US election, the whole world watches the pathetic result and learns from the negative example.

cryingfarage.jpg

>France isn't the only country buddy.
Correct, meaning that there were other socialists in Europe at the time prior to Marx. Marx poisoned the well as far as socialism is concerned.

Its kinda funny too see russians talk about purity tests when they got more muslims than the whole of europe abnd the eastern part is majority asian. Vladivostok is basically a chinese colony and its considered the richest and biggest town.

lel I don't even live in the same hemisphere