Killing a god

Whatever the DM says it requires. 5e presumes by default you'll never get to god-killing levels, unlike 4e, where killing & replacing the gods was a perfectly valid campaign assumption.

Fuck off, 3e did it first.

Basic did it first, actually; just saying that 5e is the first edition where it's NOT got any epic-level content at all.

Fighting gods in 5e seems pointless. It's such a low power level game that a few hundred peasants with bows could kill a god without too much trouble.

A 5e 20th level character is fairly weak compared to previous editions' 20th level characters. I doubt its possible within the rules of the game, even with exploits.

I'm not familiar with 5e, I just came here because I like the idea of killing gods.

>5e is such a low power level game that a few hundred peasants with bows could kill a god without too much trouble.
On a scale of Complete Bullshit to Totally Accurate, where does this post lie?
I've considered checking out 5e the next time I feel like rolling a d20, but if remotely descriptive of the powerlevel, it might give me pause.
Still better than 3.p.

>On a scale of Complete Bullshit to Totally Accurate, where does this post lie?
Depends on if the god has immunity to non-magic weapons.
Quantity is absurdly powerful in 5e, to the point that "few hundred peasants with bows" legitimately can kill most anything they can hurt.

5e's overall power level is lower, because the numbers don't get as big.

Its relative power level (PC vs. NPC) tends to be either the same as past editions or higher, depending. The tarrasque is CR 30, at the top of the food chain alongside Tiamat, but level 20 adventurers could eat the tarrasque for breakfast with even the minimum amount of magic items due to how PCs scale with 5e's accuracy and damage counts.

5e's epic levels consist of boons that the DM can reward based on post-20th XP counts, that push them toward demigod status (immunities to certain damage types, auto-hits, proficiency in all skills, flat resistance to physical damage, tons of extra HP, and more), alongside grabbing extra feats. Basically it assumes that epic-level play is going to involve the DM fucking the system beyond recognition anyway, so they keep the character progression there loose.

100% accurate, because of the way accuracy and mob rules work in 5e. Essentially, a percentage of the group is always guaranteed to hit regardless of the level difference or AC. So with enough people you can kill anything, that dragon terrorizing the countryside could be slain pretty easily by the local lord giving everyone in the city a bow and having them all fire at it at once.

Is that unreasonable?

All it takes is Raistlin Majere

It's more an issue in the way 5e presents itself. It would be fine if it just came out and said it was a low powered game. But the high level stuff is basically treated the same as 3rd and 4th edition by the books.

>I'm trying to surprise him with this so I don't want to do anything to tip him off
>Trying to surprise the gameMASTER

Stab them to death in their own dimension or something.

Fair enough.

1. Couldn't a dragon just fly out of range of the swarm of arrows and maybe drop shit on them?
2. If you're a low-rent god that is damaged by a regular arrow, yeah, you gonna get shivved. And if a guy can afford to equip and army of peasants with magical arrows, he should stand a chance at killing a god that sticks around to fight.

I'm okay with this.

>giving everyone in the city a bow and having them all fire at it at once.

>a bunch of commoners with 10 in every stat and no proficiency bonus hitting a creature with 20+ AC

One in twenty of them will hit.

Technically I think it's that they start at Empyreans as the base, and scale up from there depending on the god.

>longbow
>martial weapon
>peasants/commoners being able to use martial weapons

hah, no

That does cut it to 1/400 since you have disadvantage.
Still doesn't stop spam from generating hits.

Your average town is going to have a lot more than 400 people. A medieval capital could have hundreds of thousands, so you could just have everyone bunch up and all shoot and kill an enemy with 200 crits

Bows actually out range every 5e dragon. The peasant army would be completely safe.

>using rules of the game meant to play out how adventurers fight monsters to define the mechanics of a setting
Didn't we get over this dumb shit with 3.5e?

If you aren't going to use the rules why bother with d&d in the first place? Just free form.

You use the rules all the time. Extrapolating those rules to define how reality works is dumb as shit.

...

Depending on the setting, killing all the followers and striking the gods name from records could do it.

Who said my peasants are humans?
(Different user), but in my campaign most common commoner race is gnolls and they all know how to use bows by nature.

He specified 5e. If you're still going to pull that passive aggressive non-answer, you can go fuck yourself and just not post in idea gathering threads any more.

I don't know 5e, but most RPGs aren't designed to handle mass combat. Also, having hundreds of archers means that some of them are going to be further away from their target than others, meaning that at some point, not all of them will be in range. And arrows can't go nearly as far straight up as they can forward, so an attack from above can allow the dragon to get closer. Again, I don't know 5e, but I'm guessing for the sake of simplicity, it doesn't have a formula for how far arrows go based on the relative elevation of their target, because that's some annoying bullshit to have to calculate, but it's something any decent GM will improvise. Regardless, a dragon can drop boulders from 1000 feet up.

Oh, and forming an army of peasant archers is expensive and requires a lot of logistics, persuasion, and discipline that they are probably going to be sadly lacking. One look at a dragon and half of them are probably going to cut and run.

>A medieval capital could have hundreds of thousands, so you could just have everyone bunch up and all shoot and kill an enemy with 200 crits
So we're talking about a 1 in 400 chance? That would require 80,000 people to be armed, willing and able. More importantly, it would require 80,000 people be in actual range. Let's assume each person only needs a 5' square area to shoot, and that they are on a flat, level plain with absolutely no obstructions. Assuming you've got these 80,000 men formed into as square of a block as possible, that's ~283 men deep and 283 men wide. That's 1415 feet x 1415 feet. What's the range of a bow again? A lot of them are going to be out of range unless the dragon lands in their midst. And even discounting range, how many of them will even have a line of sight on the dragon?

This is a ridiculously implausible scenario.

yes that is a game system, not a setting, wherein how gods function would be detailed. They are not defined in function within the base game rules. and since only the gm could know how to kill gods in the game, again because no rules exist in the base game, that answer is not only acceptable, but also wholly accurate. consequently it is not passive aggressive.

and giving a random player rules for doing x in another gm's game is kinda retarded on its face.

>it's accurate!
Sure, about as much as "It depends on your opinion" applies to anything subjective, and is absolutely unnecessary to say and just makes you sound passive-aggressive.

>it's acceptable
Fuck off. Go read some of the non-passive-aggressive answers in this thread to see some actually helpful/interesting advice, and not just "guh, stop having a discussion, it depends on opinions, I can't handle multiple viewpoints."

If older edition lore still holds up with 5e..then you can't kill a god as a mortal. You actually have to have backing from another deity, and a weapon that can slay a god as well. Essentially need sponsors, a a god-shank. Like the NASCAR of god slaying.

>Bows actually out range every 5e dragon. The peasant army would be completely safe.
Is this their breath weapon or how high they can fly over them and drop things?
Because they only need to fly above 600 feet.

>Regardless, a dragon can drop boulders from 1000 feet up.
>This is a ridiculously implausible scenario.
Yeah.
Peasants vs. Dragon is pretty much decided.

Gotta figure that a God is as smart and powerful as a Dragon, unless the God can't fly, teleport, or something.
God slaying could totally still happen, just not with a bunch of peasants with bows.

Both their breath weapon and max movement speed are outranged by bows. I suppose they could fly above and drop things, but I imagine it would take several trips to drop enough random shit to destroy an army.

>I imagine it would take several trips to drop enough random shit to destroy an army.
Easy enough.

You're the guy who was mad in the meta thread. If I could change one thing about Veeky Forums it would be to get you to stop posting here.

Not really. Just grab a stone building, like a mill or the house of the village elder and drop it from a high altitude. It'll pretty much act as a flechette bomb. As in, everyone better be wearing plate, or everyone will be put out of commission.

How would the dragon get close enough to grab any of that stuff without getting riddled with arrows? It would have to be aware of the armed peasants and carry the building a decent distance.

Balls of steel!

In older editions Empyreans were stated to be roughly the equal of minor deities statwise, so that's not too far-fetched.

In D&D to kill a god you must
1. find them on their home plane (killing them elsewhere just banishes them)
2. defeat them at their strongest
3. before they regenerate, claim their Divine Portfolio, a metaphysical concept they represent

This kills the god and transforms you into the new god. If the Divine Portfolio goes unclaimed, either the old god will regenerate (not necessarily in the same form, they may come back changed, with a new name and appearance) or the domain in which that god rules will run wild and begin a process which damages the material plane badly until another god investigates what happened and does something with the abandoned portfolio.

Note that at any point an overgod may intervene and do whatever the fuck it feels like because you're fiddling with its crystal sphere, you little bitch.

Anyone with adamantine armor and 25 or more AC cannot be harmed by a peasant by any manner.
I think a god could slip into a suit of adamantine armor as a standard action, probably a personal on-demand variant of Divine Intervention.

>How would the dragon get close enough to grab any of that stuff without getting riddled with arrows? It would have to carry the building a decent distance.
Yeah, this is why I figured random boulders or even trees. Unless the village has outlying buildings more than 600 feet out, that wouldn't work.

>It would have to be aware of the armed peasants
Pretty sure they have good eyes.
Although luring the dragon close at first with a masking illusion or something might allow the first volley to hut at least.
>the castle is a ninja

Depends on the divinity rating.

Are you fucking retarded? Is this a fucking world that only has ONE VILLAGE on its surface?

To quote my post:
>There aren't explicit rules for that as fixtures of the system in itself.
I answered that there are no rules for such as part of 5e.
If a setting has had that be a thing then there are obviously going to be in-fiction mechanisms for it.
If the GM wants it to be a thing they'll obviously have some in-fiction methods that'll work to varying degrees.
If a GM wants suggestions they should ask for suggestions instead of "what are the rules for X," because those are very different questions.

My answer wasn't passive aggressive. If you can't read a response without injecting that and then getting defensive and confrontational about it, then you should take a little you time and destress.

Hey, dipshit?
His bit about carrying the building a decent distance meant that the dragon would have to grab a building from the closest spot outside the village, like, say, the nearest other village?

>1/400 shots will hit
>Avarage 4 damage
How many people does he need?!

There were several people mad at you there.

>Dragon
>Flying towards an fully equiped army
I thougt they were smart

No way, Tiamat is just a lesser deity. You'd need new rules for divine/cosmic level stuff.

>A medieval capital could have hundreds of thousands
If you happen to be Constantinople on a good day.

>If you happen to be Constantinople on a good day.
No sorry, I am just in Istanbul.

>D&D 5e

NECK.
YOUR.
SELF.

You'll need a Wizard,because a martial isn't going to be able to do the trick.

...

There are no true gods statted except maybe Tiamat, therefore, you cannot kill gods in 5e.

OP asked what would it take to kill one, implying a theoretical scenario in which you could. Because there is no mechanical way to do so (because they don't exist mechanically) it would depend entirely on the DM altering what is considered as the default setting.

Ergo, "It depends on the setting".
You fucking sperg.

ancient red dragon has AC22 and 546hp, so a peasant firing a light crossbow with a +2 to hit is hitting only on a crit

so average peasant will have a 1/20 chance to deal 2d8 (9) damage

that will take 61 crits to kill a dragon, so 20 x 60 =1200 peasants to ensure a OHKO

the dragon has 80 fly speed, a light crossbow has 80/320 range

this is assuming that the dragon is standing still, the dragon can fire a 90ft cone of fire which will substantially thin the crowd

But user, a natural 20 is automatic success!

1200 peasants is really not that much even for a medieval army.

It's actually 24 thousand, he forgot disadvantage due to proficiency. Also even 1200 +2 crossbows is an insane amount of magic weapons already.

1200 is still big enough that they cant really go anywhere in secret, being about the size of a regiment, giving the dragon ample time to size up the attacking force and make a decision

dragons are also highly intelligent and can command their own army fairly decently

so while killable by mundane means, needing to bring a 1200 of anything to kill one of anything is still enough to make it a god to anything other than a large city

a tarrasque on the other hand has 25AC and 676hp and immunity to non-magical attacks

that second part alone makes it completely immune to anything found in a standard armory

going by peasant logic you will need 75 x 20 = 1500 peasants all armed with magical crossbows

>There are no true gods statted except maybe Tiamat, therefore, you cannot kill gods in 5e.

>a god is statted

That makes the rest of your post irrelevant, and frankly, cringe-inducing.

You should get in the habit of reading more of a thread before replying to stuff. Like, even just reading the second half of that post would have saved us both some time.

>what is Smaug

>disadvantage due to proficiency
You don't have disadvantage for using a weapon you lack proficiency in, and I think the +2 is implied to be from dex. Range might be an issue causing disadvantage though, as the more peasants firing within short range the easier the dragon could just kill a shit ton with a breath weapon. This hypothetical doesn't really work though, because no sane DM would count 1200 peasants firing arrows as 1200 attack rolls. That's pure improvised reflex save territory

Not the clearly cropped furry porn?

That, too

Which edition and setting does this apply to?

Gotcha covered bro. With the Knight included, who gives them +2 to hit and +2 to AC, and 10 gold extra per peasant to give them that 1 shot 1 damage crossbow, army cost racks up to just about 46k gold.

Another god, or a few badasses

Of course if you need them to deal 9 damage, you should probably get 9 times as many peasants.

You mean AD&D.
The entire geek pantheon was stated out for you to go all Kratos on.

>Who would win?

>1 crusader standing before the gates of Jerusalem, guided by the hand of Saint Louis himself, filled with JUSTICE and knowing that God is watching
>vs
>One trillion peasants armed with only rakes

That depends on the scenario.

Normally I would give it to the crusaders. Unless the crusaders are Canadians. Canuck Crusaders are vulnerable to rake damage.

God is a being that people worship. The gods have been known to grow weaker as people forget about them.
The only possibility would be global forget spell + imprison the god. Have another god kill him, or steal the power that his believers have him, so, absorb the god somehow. All this is however quite impossible with mortal character without help of another higher being.

For example, imagine you are in a fight with said god. He can summon planetars and devas or demons infinitely to kill you. If you somehow manage to get close to him, what is stopping him from leaving or teleporting away?

5E is a system and it is pushed alongside a setting. 5E is not itself a setting.

Leaf here. Can confirm, rakes are scary as shit. Bare in mind I'm typing that while in the process of throatfucking an island wolf to death, so I'm not kidding.

Sorry.

In England, it was mandated that all common folk practice in use of the longbow. Not entirely unbelievable that this would become common practice.

Um... no? Gods in D&D aren't completely immortal and I even doubt they take power from worship, it's the other way around if anything (worshipers take power from gods). You would probably have to travel to their home plane and kill them there. A task absurdly hard, but doable for a whole party of high level adventurers.

Older edition did have deity levels. Some gods were higher level than others. Perhaps the amount of worshippers the gods has is essentially their equivalent to mortal adventurers XP.

just let me join your table, and I'll take care of it

...

>Gods in D&D aren't completely immortal and I even doubt they take power from worship

Depends on the ruleset. The ones with rules for divine level required worshippers, and 3E made it explicit that clerics don't have to get their powers from the gods, you could even be a Cleric of your own justice.

With the only RAW we have, you cannot.

I can't really do better with 8MB limit...

Blood of Vecna first of all. Otherwise their portfolio is gonna see you from a year away.

Reminds me of the not! ww1 setting i have been working on with crossbows.

Nah, plenty of medieval cities had hundreds of thousands. Bejing, Paris, Naples, Cairo, Baghdad, Florence, Alexandria, etc, etc, etc. At the end of the 16th century Constantinople had 600k people in it around.