Is Gastion Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil? Would you describe him as a Ranger or a Witch hunter...

I dunno man, falsely imprisoning someone to threaten a girl to marry you seems pretty evil. I think neutral evil.

Being whimsical and flighty doesn't disqualify you from being evil.

As far as mechanics, I think he's a fighter. Sure he's a hunter, but he doesn't have that affinity for nature (beyond killing it all) that rangers typically have. Low dex though, since he obviously failed his save to not fall off the tower. Max str and cha.

and probably max con too, since he eats FIVE DOZEN RAW EGGS A DAY

The thing that we've got to remember is that Gaston was a product of his time. Marriage contracts were absolutely a thing: and her father was widely considered to be insane BEFORE any of the business with the beast. Remember how the town already called Belle's father "Crazy old Maurice"?

He didn't believe in the beast at first, and took steps to ensure that Belle would still be cared for and looked after when her father was being given the care and attention any fruit loop needs to keep from being a danger to himself or others. Despite the stigma associated with Belle and her father he went out of his way to provide for them both because he loved Belle. And when he saw evidence of the beast (who appears to wield strange and powerful magic) he did what any good person would do - he set out to kill the monster and break the enchantment ensorcelling his One True Love.

You're looking at it as if you're a reader who doesn't have access to Gaston's inner thoughts. We absolutely see his mind in the story and what he's actually thinking. From the outside of someone who doesn't know any better, sure, looks like he's doing good stuff. But the reader, because we're the reader, know he's actually using turning the situation to his advantage in devious ways. He doesn't actually care about doing good, ensuring Maurice gets the care he needs, and ridding the beast. It's all a plot to get Belle.

You don't know that these things aren't a concern for him. You're looking at it from the beast's perspective because that's the one you have been presented with and are thus most sympathetic towards.

In effect, you are suffering the same stockholm syndrome as Belle because you think the beast "is not that bad" when he's obviously violent and cruel and has been ever since he was a small boy.

to the characters that would be playing in OPs thing, yes, that would what it may seem like. Because they don't have the knowledge that we, as the reader and audience do. The story makes it very clear to set Gaston up as the antagonist and that Gaston only cares about Gaston. We get inner monologues from Belle, the Beast, and Gaston. The story outright tells us who is good and bad.

Neutral Evil Paladin, Oath of Conquest

Beast being a kidnapper doesn't change the fact Gaston is a self-serving cunt.

Only reason he is going for Belle is because he he sees her as another worthy trophy. He doesn't lead the mob to save Belle from the Beast for no reason. He is going for glory, and expecting Belle's hand in marriage for his efforts. He doesn't go with "good deed is a reward on itself". He is going with "extra points for me to get her to marry me".

Earlier in the story he doesn't care about Belle's interests and feelings. He only wants a hot trophy wife.

>when her father was being given the care and attention any fruit loop needs to keep from being a danger to himself or others

You know what kind of "care" that "lunatics" got in that time period outside their own family, right?

Yes, marriage contracts were a thing, but regardless of whether they were legally permitted, Gaston either A) coerced a man into signing his daughter away or B) was insane and shouldn't have had that authority. Even in those time periods there were stories where people doing either of those things were portrayed as the villains.

"product of his time" is a very iffy argument, too. The priest of that dark god who demands living human sacrifice on his bloody altar is a product of his time, as well.

Her father shouldn't have had that authority, I mean. If you're going for the "Maurice was crazy" angle.

>Disney Campaign
Fuck, yes. Major props brother, I made one about a year and a half ago, before it succumbed to the endless hiatus that swallows groups. Sucks dude, fuckin loved that campaign. You gotta finish this campaign dude, I'm counting on you.
Regardless, Gaston is a CN Ranger, straight up. I put a twist on it that the characters couldn't talk him down from his delusion with Belle, damn near killed her in a hostage type situation. Wound up dying in a fit of "if I can't have her, no one can."

>He only wants a hot trophy wife.
One problem with that assessment is that she's a plain looking brunette. He wants her more than the gaggle of blondes constantly following him around.

Without her father or a husband, belle would be living on the streets. It's clear that Gaston had convinced the township not to put Maurice away because of concern for her. What would you do in his situation?

Blondes want to suck his dick. Belle doesn't want to suck his dick. Gaston wants Belle to suck his dick.

>Is Gastion Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil?
I'd put him as chaotic neutral myself. Gaston isn't evil per-say, like maleficent or ursula is. He's more of an asshole really. But to the townspeople and others, he's a good person. He simply wants to settle down with the local bookworm.
Now if he raped her or coerced her through violence towards her into being his wife, then I'd immediately change it to neutral evil. But since he only wants to kill the local monster and prove himself as good marriage material (albeit, being seriously misinformed about said monster) then he's simply neutral evil.
At worst, he's neutral asshole.

>Would you describe him as a Ranger or a Witch hunter?
Ranger, definately. He's done nothing that we can see as being a witch hunter of any kind. The local pub pretty much tells us he's a hunter. Now if he was all for burning belle at the stake for being a witch (which he comes perilously close to) then he'd be a witch hunter.

One thing though... How in the name of Walt Disney's dead parents fetish is ANYONE not aware of the local prince being cursed? As far as we know, Gaston has lived there for years and he only finds out about the local nobility because of a magic mirror.

Excessive self-interest is evil, though. Where you're so concerned about yourself that you don't spare a thought for stomping on anyone else so long as you're ahead. It's easy to justify all sorts of atrocious behavior that way. Gaston wasn't concerned about the monster so much as fucking Belle and having an excuse to hunt something intelligent and fierce.

He technically didn't do anything evil enough to be considered evil assuming he began neutral, but had he successfully killed the beast he would have been evil.

Sure, he isn't doing this Good act because he's good aligned. He's doing it for selfish reasons, but not to a criminal degree. Going to save a woman you love from a monster so she might like you back and for the glory of it is pretty neutral, the same way doing so for money would be.

As for putting her father away for being crazy, that's also stuck as being pretty neutral if that's the common acceptance in the setting. It certainly isn't a Good thing to do, but I'm also doubtful Gaston is very well read on the inner workings of medieval asylums.

He's scummy, but he isn't causing the level of harm I would say is necessary for Evil.

>she's a plain looking brunette

Canonically, she's the hottest peace around, wether you like it or not around. In fact, he states this quite clearly when talking about how he only deserves the better and since Belle's the best option available, it stands to reason that she should be his wife.

*hottest piece of ass around

If only there was a version where Gaston won

A version entirely from his viewpoint could also be rather interesting

lawful good ranger. what the fuck are you faggots doing making gaston evil? he is objectively good.
he risks his life to kill an evil monster that has imprisoned a local girl.

>One thing though... How in the name of Walt Disney's dead parents fetish is ANYONE not aware of the local prince being cursed? As far as we know, Gaston has lived there for years and he only finds out about the local nobility because of a magic mirror.

In the recent live-action version, apparently, it was justified by making the curse cause everyone in the village to forget about Beast & CO.

To me that its own questions in terms of how the town viewed its feudal status before and after the curse was broken though

youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE

>Excessive self-interest is evil, though. Where you're so concerned about yourself that you don't spare a thought for stomping on anyone else so long as you're ahead. It's easy to justify all sorts of atrocious behavior that way. Gaston wasn't concerned about the monster so much as fucking Belle and having an excuse to hunt something intelligent and fierce.
This falls into the philosophical bullshit of there being no such thing as a selfless act. You could judge the most selfless person in the world and say "But he is just trying to feel good about it!"

Gastion is portrayed as the antagonist because we know things that he doesn't. From Gastion's perspective, a crazy old man came out of the forest claiming a monster had stolen his daughter. That's a likely story for a psychotic murderer, but even assuming this monster does exist, what if he threatened her with starvation in exchange for her compliance? This is literally, LITERALLY what happens.

The narrative gymnastics the story goes through to make Gastion into the villain falls apart when the justification for his actions being evil that he has an ego or that he hopes bell will fuck him. If that's enough to be evil, than every constructive self-improvement effort of the typical lonely 4channer is actually an evil act.

He's lawful evil. He's ultimately self serving and cruel but within the confines of the legal and societal standards of the day. So while from the viewers perspective we saw him as the antagonist and in the wrong, from the rest of the townspeople's perspectives he was justified in his actions.

Gaston is nothing but a reflection of Beast. He is what Beast was (or would have become) not being cursed and loved (for what he is in the inside).

Beast is also still a fucking asshole after the curse, so there's another tip.

Lesson: first impressions suck, give everybody at least two chances

I see you would dislike this man then

Fucking saved

You're totally ignoring the part where Gaston pays a guy to take Belle's father to the asylum not because he is a madman or a danger to society (which he isn't, nobody gives a fuck about the old man even if they all know about his weirdness), but simply to coerce her into marrying him. That's quite evil.

At the end of the day I think that we can all agree on who the real monster is. No it is not man. It's that fucking faerie bitch that cursed a 13/14 year old and dozens of innocent serving staff for not letting a stranger into the house.

It was her that set the entire series of events in motion that resulted in nothing but misery and sorrow.

Look at Beast. A child as the feudal ruler. The only way that this happens is when the lord is dead and his wife, and presumably mother of the little lordling, is also too dead to act as a stand in. If he had been too young when this happens then it would have been given to a distant relative or a member of the clergy to look after the place and educate him to take over when he is deemed old enough. Or it gets taken by the crown to hand out to someone else if there are mitigating circumstances like the King being an arse.

But he wasn't too young but he was young. So he was a child not yet capable of growing chin hairs who had very recently just lost both his parents. Was he a bit of a dick? Probably. Under the circumstances it's understandable.

I always enjoy these "Gaston wasn't the villain" threads when they pop up. I'm honestly in agreement with a lot of it, I just think his shakiest moment is paying to have Maurice thrown into the Looney bin.

He's handsome, popular, and tried to save a local girl from a monster (albeit for arguably selfish ends). In 9/10 Disney movies he'd be the hero.

His motives were at least as noble as those of Disney version of Hercules whose whole deal was "I want to people to tell me I'm great".

Being the product of one's time has no influence whatsoever on alignment in D&D.

You don't understand how vanity works.

I say this as someone who has consciously decided not to sleep with girls because they only wanted to show off to their friends what they can get if they want it.

Veeky Forums did a villains victorious setting once where he did.

Reminder that if Veeky Forums wrote disney films tentacle rape would be the norm.

Neither.
No one is aligned like Gaston.
No one ever had skills and a class like Gaston's.

He's actually 11 years old when the curse is cast upon him, even though the movies clearly portray him as an adult. Disney can't into basic math just like faeries can't into understanding children.

>best answer

Still, Gaston clearly used his Wis and Int for dump stats, otherwise he would be home right now running a train on triplets, rather than a pothole for the newly recombobulated groundskeepers to fill in.

I'm fairly certain Dark Sun at least shifts the alignment's perspective on slavery so that Good characters aren't instantly obligated to free slaves and can tolerate it as part of society, while neutral characters can own slaves in moderate amounts and ways.

If it can work for that, why couldn't it similarly apply here?

This post shows that is not that alignment are bad, is just people are retarded
Gaston is NE

Unless we're talking about US-style chattel slavery, there really isn't anything inherently evil about slavery as a concept. It's like dictatorship: There really isn't anything bad about it in and of itself, it's just that it's incredibly easy for things to go wrong when you hand that kind of power to an individual.

That would be the sort of slavery Dark Sun has. It's pretty post-apoc fantasy while also having ancient city-states ruled by evil sorcerer kings. The most progressive thing about slavery in Dark Sun is that it's pretty equal across races.

And of course, a Good character in Dark Sun won't approve of slavery themselves, and probably would help escaped slaves or free them when possible or convenient, but it isn't possible to simply march into the slave markets and kill everyone.

Reminder that Gaston wasn't genuinely wrong. He had no way of knowing that the Beast wasn't a murderous monster.

>One thing though... How in the name of Walt Disney's dead parents fetish is ANYONE not aware of the local prince being cursed? As far as we know, Gaston has lived there for years and he only finds out about the local nobility because of a magic mirror.
Based on the style of blunderbuss that Gaston's packing, they're likely in rural France during the days of the revolution, untouched by many modern luxuries. It's been speculated that the Beast is holed up in a family estate, no longer nobility even after having his humanity restored. If the movie didn't end where it did, he might have well be due for the guillotine.

>FAE:

>NO SENSE OF RIGHT AND WRONG

He's a Neutral Evil Ranger with levels in Bard.

Gaston isn't evil, he just an asshole.

I desperately want a version where Beast, Belle, and Gaston all start out as equally flawed characters and *everyone* gets a redemption arc.

>Well he didn't actually do anything evil

Umm, my memory isn't the best but doesn't Gaston paint Belle's father as a madman to get him put in jail/a sanatorium.

>Excessive self-interest is evil, though.
No, self interest in spite of others is evil.
And as far as he knows, he isn't harming any "person"

That's because her father is a madman. The villagers nicknamed him crazy and everything. A harmless one, but he's pretty clearly got some mental issues

Gaston is Chaotic Good.

Prove me wrong.

>Hunting viscous monsters that surround the village
>Does so for the right reasons but has no problem reveling in the respect and admiration he gets from the townsfolk
>Saves Bel so that he can marry her
>Tries to kill a clearly chaotic evil monster full of malice and hatred

Not only this, but Belle dumps him for being dumb, brutish, hairy, and violent, for an actual beast who is more brutish, more hairy, and more violent, but also rich

>
>Not only this, but Belle dumps him for being dumb, brutish, hairy, and violent, for an actual beast who is more brutish, more hairy, and more violent, but also rich
>but also rich

Beaches and shores, man.

Lawful Good.

So Fairy bitch curses an 11 year old, freshly orphaned child (with the entire serving staff as collateral damage) and the only way to break this curse is to find "True Love".

Bitch please, he's an 11 year old boy. He's only just coming to terms with the fact that he can get an erection.

And then make him look like an animal to suffer total social isolation and not develop any ability to interact with people.

The result is that they won't be attracted to his looks, he won't have an attractive personality, the mansion has a reputation for being haunted so all that they can be attracted to him for is his cash.

At some point you just have to accept that an otherworldly creature just wanted to torture a child.

Well, I mean, fey are assholes.