Mutants and Masterminds General

As a guy who tried to run a M&M game once, not specifying the setting before, or knowing the system in and out, and ended up with a bunch of disbalanced characters, and no plot to fit them all; yes, that is exactly what we think.

Well not exactly, but hoping that if we make a PL8 villain against the PL4 party, they hopefully won't be able to streamroll him.
Unfortunately the system doesn't give a fucking shit about any balance by default. It is a system that tries to accomodate all the powers in fiction, and does that rather well. To have balance I should have known the system beforhand, mitigating PL didn't help much.

Thanks for making the thread. I've had to get this off my chest as well.

>noys me as well. I also dont like GMs who have dumb, edgy settings where everyone is
It only seems realistic if you are a NEET who's only window into the real world is modern serial-TV-dramas with a fetishism for moral grey and no heroes, and how people behave behind the shield of anonymity on an image-board full of middle-schoolers pretending to be adults.

Humans, are in-fact, social creatures, not solitary creatures, meaning that anti-social behavior and crass selfishness to the point of sociopathy are deviations.

Thanks user, I needed that.

Power level is honestly the least deciding factor when it comes to a boss. I've had as little as 3 PL 10s take out a PL 16 by using a nuclear Damage 16 and Weaken 16 Falcon Punch, but one of the players was very close to dying thanks to targeting some very weak saves. On the other hand, I've had combats which, if the players did not use their Hero Points I granted them by situational Complications, they would be in a straight TPK.

This is what the GM Guide in a nutshell says:
>1. If you're planning on having a singular mega boss, for the love of god give them Reaction and AoE attacks, especially the former
>2. If not going that route, then have some minions block off the heroes, it even gives rules on minions taking the hit and attacking of the PCs try to get past them on Reaction. If not minions,
>3. Let Villains use Hero Point benefits in exchange for giving the Players Hero Points afterwards.

I GM PL 3 or lower depending on the build.
>ungrateful faggots don't even understand how broken their system is
>can't be a god among men, 2/10
>Demands better encounters, besides combat, builds character for combat due to lackluster RP abilities
Why is the M&M player base so cancerous, and why are you fueling it?

You don't have to resort to bait like this to keep this topic up.

>I've had as little as 3 PL 10s take out a PL 16 by using a nuclear Damage 16 and Weaken 16 Falcon Punch
I can't remember the exact rules, but doesn't that goes against the PL limitation? Like you are only allowed to go Damage 9 at best if you are PL3, no? Otherwise I agree.

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That's one thing that can't be fucking stressed enough:
>ACTION ECONOMY IS FUCKING KING IN M&M
That's why shit like Reaction, Summon and Minions should always have the GM keeping an eye on them.
For fuck's sake, user. Reread the post and try to have a little more reading comprehension this time.

Maybe wr8th properly then and don't thr0w in numbers everywhere.

The further back you set the Origin Event the more you history you have to rewrite.
A related decision is How Many Supers Are There? This is important. 1% of the population is over 7 million.
Even 100 superheroes is enough for some games.

Might be a case of D&D3.5 syndrome, or "one-itis" (misused term here). They know this one system, and since M&M is flexible, they figure everything should be run in it.

Children of the Bomb
When a nuclear device detonates, the nearest unborn child outside of the blast radius is granted powers. Trinity, Bikini, Hiroshima, and the Tsar are some of the most powerful people in the world.

>Hero Points
Hero Points are meant to reward playing to your character's pathos and struggles. It's the system trying to teach you that it's okay to lose, that everything is part of the story, that you'll get a chance to get back at the bad guy later. You can't forget about hero points.

You're all working together to tell stories and fight minitures for fun. Go with, let yourself enjoy the game, and when you're done with the war just tell him the type of adventure you'd like to do. Everybody can get what they want and have fun.

I'm in a PL3 M&M game currently. As we are students at an academy, not full fledged heroes.

Mind you, it is PL3 with 70 points as the GM wanted us to make more well rounded PC/feel free to invest in fluff-based stuff.

I'm a big fan of moral sociopath characters personally. My favourite out of all the characters I've played was a complete sociopath who couldn't relate to others and thought everyone else was as violent and traitorous as he was at his worst, so he strove to rein in his urges and help others instead of hurting them in the hope that it would make them less likely to kill, hurt or betray him. I just love evil characters that do good despite their nature, or because their parents/equivalent figure raised them to do good and they don't want to be a disappointment.

To be fair he had like a +4 or +8 to hit with all out attack because of it, so he had to exhaust himself just to get in the hit. And he was PL 10.

Not sure what you are calling out on this.

Nothing. I've just seen Hero Points be a neglected mechanic in many of the games I've seen.

>pl3
How horrifying

That is really a shame, I make sure to involve them whenever it is appropriate.

Can someone help me figure out the possible descriptors for Broad Weaken effects?

I'm trying to make a villain who's main cause of trouble is some kind of entropy aura, and I need it to be able to weaken *everything* inside it, at 1 rank per round.

While I could just say everything within range is affected, I would like to at least try figure out how many broad descriptors it takes to cover "everything"

And slightly related, what broad descriptor would cover Immortality, Regeneration, Healing, and possibly Immunity (Ageing)?

To be fair Mutants and Masterminds is capable of a lot more than 3.5 when it comes to setting variety because it covers modern, sci fi, and archaic stuff from the box.

You're probably gonna need to house rule this a little, because the default Weaken doesn't work the way you want it to. That said, you could start with something like...

Weaken X (where X is whatever you want for the DC) Burst Area Y, Broad (Abilities), Broad (Defenses), Broad (Power Ranks), Broad (Skills), Broad (Advantages), Simultaneous, Sustained Duration, Limited (Only decreases values by 1 per round)

Which brings it to something like 9 points per rank, but villains don't care about silly concepts like character points.

Broad (All The Shit The GM Wants It To Affect)

Since constructs take damage like objects does that mean they don't suffer the cumulative -1 toughness when they take damage? I imagine a destroyed result (3 degrees if failure) is the object version of incapacitated but what happens on a broken result?

So far this hasn't came up in game as all the constructs so far have been minions but one of my players wants to make a construct character for our next campaign.

Honestly, the Construct rules are one of the few bad things about this system for me. The section on them doesn't even mention anything on how the Construct template applies to full characters (or how Affects Object effects attached to Alternate Resistance: Fortitude Damage can instantly destroy any construct character as low as rank 1). I personally think the rulings found in 2e's FAQ are better, you can check it out here and ctrl+f to find it:
freeronin.com/2e_files/MM2eFAQ.pdf

As for your question, this is what it says about Constructs and Damage:
>Objects (targets lacking a Stamina rank) take damage similar to other targets. Dazed and staggered results have no real effect on inanimate targets, since they do not take actions. Constructs, capable of action, are dazed and staggered normally (see Constructs).

It doesn't clarify anything on -1 penalties, but then again I assume it'd be rough since having dozens of -1s because you cannot recover would be rough (although regen costs like 1 or 2 points).

I don't deny that, but you must admit that it's incredibly ill-suited for e.g. Riddle of Steel-style gritty sword and not-so-sorcery, or for heavily narrativist stuff like Mage: the Ascension or other World of Darkness games, yet you'll still find people trying to make those work within M&M?

Broad (Longevity)?

Psionics

How exactly does Summon (Broad) work? You get to make an entirely new sheet for your Minions as long as it fits the descriptors your Broad allows?

Anyone have any experience using M&M to run a Jojo game? Decided I want to run something in that vein and was wondering if it was a good fit.

Honestly? You're better off using FATE or similar narrativist-only systems

That said, M&M can definitely work for Jojo, but it's not going to feel "right" in some ways, because Jojo is much less dependent on plot and story driving the action and how the action happens, rather than mechanics.

If your players are uncreative though, M&M might be better, since it'll allow you to frontload the Stand craziness in character generation. Just be aware of the pitfalls and make sure to be extremely generous with Hero Points so that Stunting isn't overly punished (Stunts allow you to bullshit up new powers on the fly after all, which is basically essential in any decent Jojo game, and you want it to happen pretty often)

JoJo is passable in M&M. Building any extremely esoteric powers will be pretty difficult, but that aside, there are a few ways you can fluff Stands.

My players aren't big on FATE or other narrative heavy games. A medium amount of crunch is pretty much required. I've heard the Heroes system might be good for it as well, any suggestions for crunchier systems that JoJo could work in?

Mutants and Masterminds is your best bet, but playing Jojo in a crunchy system just isn't ever going to be optimal. That said, if your players don't like narrativist games for some reason, then Mutants and Masterminds might be the best option. Make sure to hand out plenty of Hero Points, as they will be the main way to ensure that the whole aspect of powers-as-plot-demands stays intact.

Thanks, this helps a lot. A few of us take turns GMing it, so having powers with point values written down is a lot better than a scribbled note saying "this character can do X and it costs about 30 points"

This helps too, I was thinking something like Broad (Healing Factor) but I didn't think that would cover demi-gods and shit very well

Stealing from City of Heroes, Pandora's box was opened again sometime in the early 20th century, bringing about a new age of legends.

>I've just seen Hero Points be a neglected mechanic in many of the games I've seen.

>That is really a shame, I make sure to involve them whenever it is appropriate.

As a GM who has been neglecting hero points.

Do you have advice on how and when to award hero points?

Straight from the hero's handbook:
>In comic book stories, heroes often confront the villain(s) and deal with various setbacks. Perhaps the villain defeats or outwits them in the first couple scenes. Maybe one or more of the heroes have to overcome a personal problem. The villain may have a secret the heroes need to discover, and so forth. By the end of the story, the heroes have overcome these challenges and they’re ready to take on the villain.
>Mutants & MasterMinds reflects this kind of story structure through the awarding of hero points. The heroes gain additional hero points as an adventure progresses. When the going gets tough, the heroes get tougher, because they get hero points to help them overcome future challenges.
>Heroes get hero points from complications, acts of heroism, and roleplaying.
tl;dr - When a player is willing to indulge one of their weaknesses or complications, is willing to lose a fight, or is otherwise being a standout character/roleplayer, give them a hero point.

>is willing to lose a fight

this is one of the things that confuses me.

is this meant to be a reward for not breaking character when a character has the stats to win but wouldn't because of personal issues?

Or if the character/party straight-up loses and gets blown the fuck out. In M&M, TPKs are not a universal "lose condition." You have to get across to the players that it's okay to lose, if it makes for a better story in the long run.

you are supposed to explain that to them. education can't be the primary purpose of hero points.

Hero Points are the incentive to allow those losses.

I want to run a naturo ripoff campaign at some point in the near future. I am split between MnM and FATE.

In your honest and unbiased opinions, which would be better?

I don't understand how a player can allow or disallow a loss.
I've never been a player in a game where a I could say "my character doesn't lose" if the dice say they lose and I don't otherwise have some resource to burn.

It's more for those players who bitch and moan about it.

Say villain starts running away, injuring a couple of people along the way, setting up a bomb or whatever. He is probably going to get away but PC speedster may try to catch him and has pretty good chances of that. In theory at least.

But instead speester starts saving people from falling debris or takes the bomb and throws it away while villain makes his escape. Give him a hero point.

And in other similar situations. Where PCs could prolong confrontation but instead choose to wrap it up saving what is left of their opponents for the next time.

>players who bitch and moan about it.

I don't have those so can you explain to me the other uses and benefits for heropoints in each of the situations where you are supposed to award them?

Hero Points allow a player to ensure a greater payoff later when they get a chance to use them. It's their reward for playing to their character, so it gives them a chance to show off.

comix

Usually how I use them is to just allow a player to apply the equivalent of Flaws to a character's power without the discount power points.

Say if a player really needs to make sure an attack hits with a hero point roll or even Ultimate Effort: Close Attack, I'll allow them to take a condition such as Vulnerable or Impaired to represent something like a character being a bit vulnerable in their anger or determination.

I also tend to hand them out when a Villain uses their equivalent of Editing the Scene, such as a big metal door suddenly shutting behind them without any chance to interfere with it or if a villain happens to have a second wind or convenient escape.

I don't think I've ever had players intentionally lose battles for Hero Points.

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You shouldn't be throwing fights to get Hero Points, no. It's that in the event of a loss, you can give a Hero Point and say "nothin' personal."

I actually played in a PL8 game and it worked pretty well. But I guess it highly depends on the nature of the Stands. All of our stands were pretty straight forward, mine was called The Fence that involved the Create Effect and various mental stuff.

I'm sure you could figure out someway to figure out stuff for the more abstract stands though. It might not be as nearly as hard as some people claim.

how do i build a character who looks good on paper but actually can't contribute much to the team aside from what you can do without rolling?

I really like M&M system, but the damage mechanics feel wrong.
I mean, thematically they are right as in, in comics heroes always shrug off small wounds and only the big ones actually take them down. However, when it comes down to playing fights most of the time boil down to either you somehow bullshit the DM into why you basically have max toughness in all your characters or at any given point, at any battle, one bad dice takes you out instantly. Hell, even with high toughness, since damage always has an advantage you are still quite likely to be put unconscious at the start of the fight simply because you rolled a 3.
IS there some reaosnable way to make fights more likely to stay at a middle point in terms of damage received vs damage avoided?

>IS there some reaosnable way to make fights more likely to stay at a middle point in terms of damage received vs damage avoided?
Switch toughness saves(or whatever they're called) from 1d20 to 3d6?

3d6ing it and lowering the DC lead damage has over your toughness save works as a stopgap, I guess.

>make fights more likely to stay at a middle point in terms of damage received vs damage avoided?

what would be the downside of this?

Kryptonite is a complication.
So is not having a social life because you're a paranoid guy who dresses like a bat.
Or ruining your love life because you drop everything and vanish to go swinging on webs.

>Hell, even with high toughness, since damage always has an advantage you are still quite likely to be put unconscious at the start of the fight simply because you rolled a 3.

The only time something like this happens is if the GM is sending the goddamn Hulk at you and happens to actually hit you with it's ridiculous low to hit (unless the GM decided to have you fight against Darkseid instead), and this is if you have mediocre toughness and roll this low. If your toughness is high enough, you can only fail so much from a single hit, even rolling a 1 might stagger you at most if you have, say, a 16 tough/4 dodge/parry tradeoff (degrees of failure are spaced out in 5s).

And even without Hero Point, you can use Extra effort to get a reroll at the cost of fatigue.

I guess it'd make it harder for the GM to put up a challenge that can take your whole party out in a single turn?

Maybe all my GMs have been consistently throwing the biggest guys, but most games I played at PL 10 with around 8 toughness usually meant that taking a hit and rolling under 10 put you out of the fight for good 80% of the time. Sure, you can go around it with hero points and fatigue, but I'm not using my only hero point in this session for the first fight against some PL 8 mooks with maximized damage and fatiguing myself to avoid damage every three turns isn't the best way to go.

Also: I have the worst luck with dice rolls, last session my rolls where something like "2, 3, 8, 3, 3, 2, 11" and so on.

>PL 8 mooks
Yeah, I think that even if you have maximized dodge/parry, it's probably your GM putting you up against vastly overleveled mobs depending on how many he's throwing at you. If your GM isn't using the minion rules, even more so.

Hell, I even had PL10 minions up against the party I ran, they could do a fuckton of damage but since they died on any level of failure and takedown 2/reaction damage a good portion of them were down before they could wipe the party.

Even in the moment they did hurt a party member really badly, it was only because the 16 toughness player have rolled a nat 1, and that still didn't incapacitate him.

I've never seen more than one PC die in a round of combat.

anyone got a pdf of M&M?

Are there any good pre-built character resources? I've been using Jab's Builds, but with no way to filter it's turning into a whole lot of fiddling and guesswork.

d20herosrd.com/
freeronin.com/3e_files/
wolflair.com/index.php?context=hero_lab&page=mutants_=_masterminds

Herolab comes with some free updates, including an encounter builder with a good variety of basic NPCs.

>I've never seen more than one PC die in a round of combat.

I've never seen a PC die in mutants and masterminds.

Death, by design, is meant to be rare is a default game. You have to consciously take an additional step in order to kill a KOed enemy.

Put a massive amount of points into DEX and PRE and do not acquire any DEX-based skills.

Reaction healing/defence power that fatigues you.

What kind of food does your hero like?

Pizza.

Post your characters.

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Ass

Could I have a link to the mediafire for Mutants and Masterminds Power Profiles please?