Epic General - 40k and 30k

In a vacuum it's not a bad set of rules. It's just, not appropriate for Epic's scale. It is also the ruleset that bascially killed GW's entire 6mm line and is a major point in GW's journey towards only supporting 40k and WHFB (before they killed even that off)

Sup tg HH general - really drunk recast bro here

You by any chance a guy named martin from germany?

Wrong game m8.

Epic 30k is a game where absolutely nobody new can order from the caster, whose name country and email are as elusive as a breath released from a dying man.

I am an absolute degenerate when it comes to epic scale miniatures.

I think I am finally growing a bit tired of the EA rules and have been looking into other rule sets.

Net Epic Gold looks like an old school good time.

give epic 30k minis

Nice try GW.

You know, I get not wanting to broadcast these guys so they don't get cease and desisted in theory, but does anyone really think GW is trolling Veeky Forums for this kinda thing?

Because apparently GW can devote the time to monitor Veeky Forums for this sort of thing but can't do the half hour of searching it apparently takes anons to find these things.

Just doesn't make any sense to me.

It is not just about GW devoting time there are actually sacks of human garbage out there that try to get epic casters etc.. shutdown acting like it is some moral crusade.

Besides that saying nice try GW is more of a joke than reality.

Hey, so on an aside, are there places to get BFG ships aside from eBay, vanguard, and shape ways?

I figured yalld probably know better than the average person in the 40k general threads

Oh I was pretty sure it was a joke, its just that I've run into some guys on here who treat this as deadly serious.

I didn't think anyone would really rat on these casters, I suppose even the teachers pet has to have a hobby.

People actually do literally all the time.

Question as someone who has never played Epic but thinks it looks interesting because I've seen it floating around, how would we get into it?

Not a single other person in my area plays it and since I can't get the information to order the stuff, it seems like kind of a dead game.

Same way you develop any tabletop scene, either strong arm some friends into it or bite the bullet, collect two forces and demo the game to generate interest.

Can't exactly do that when the models aren't available and people won't provide the means to be able to do so.

I wrote a guide last year and I hope it uploads. I can't promise that all the 3rd party info is current.

I didn't want to mention in the guide that if you're looking for forumware, there are two approaches: see if sobers up enough to arrange a way to contact him, or join the Tactical Command forum (we're friendly) and start posting pictures of used or 3rd party minis. Make yourself a thread in the 6mm subforum. Hint that you're looking for other things, or look in the Wargames Trades subforum (you'll never be in time to buy any, but you can PM people selling theirs). Once people know you're actually in the hobby, they'll be more willing to divulge their sources. People have gotten cease-and-desist letters before, so don't blame them for being paranoid.

At this scale though, I wouldn't be too picky about forumware vs. 3rd party stuff. And eBay seems to be dropping down from silly prices as the game loses interest. But it's still a great game so try it out.

Aliexpress. They get taken down for a day every once in a while so check back.

It's not a great deal if you're going to play 4th edition (Epic Armageddon), which you should. EA has annoyingly specific unit sizes that don't match up with what older blisters or boxes gave you. Its plastic vehicles are often pretty cheap on eBay - it's infantry that's expensive and it's all monopose and 25 years old at this point. I'd go 3rd party even if it doesn't look quite as 40k.

You're a saint user

Unfortunately, it's pretty dead. But it's the best tabletop ruleset I know of.

Back when the Tactical Command forum was more open about forumware, a bunch of people here in Veeky Forums liked to complain that the TacComs guys acted like they owned the game. I'm not sure why, but there was a fair amount of animosity towards the Epic community and lots of "reported" posts here that were probably usually just trolling but it's hard to know.

No such thing as a dead game.

There were no players in my area either but I converted new ones.

People really like epic they just have to be shown.

Painting these guys is fun.

3rd party stuff is best if you aren't trying to do Space Marines or (Craftworld) Eldar. Other armies have been redone more closely to the original style, except you get better sculpts because they're actually modern.

Marines are common enough on eBay that the prices aren't necessarily terrible. You're screwed if you want to play Eldar though.

Thats incredibly well done user

Kudos.

believe it or not Veeky Forums is actually fairly well known in the tabletop community as a whole as a source for news, info, and contacts, at least for anyone who has been around a while. Anyone who wishes to talk about things that aren't 100% kosher on their home forum (3rd party models in 40k, recasting, book pdf's, illegal leaks of rules) knows to come here as one of the first places to check. It's one of the few forums with a decent amount of users where you can actually talk about these things and not immediately get downvoted or shut down by moderators.

They like to talk about how Veeky Forums is such an awful place to visit but if you watch news posts on places like dakkadakka you'll notice they often end up citing Veeky Forums posts, sometimes within minutes of the original post. Hell there's a big writeup someone copied from a post a while back about the Titanicus game posted on the dakka thread right now. And just like there are people trolling these places for news, others crosspost across multiple forums, and others still are nothing but desperate vigilantes desperately wanting to earn good boy shill points for companies that don't give a shit about them or even about the transgressions of anons on this site.

I'm amazed at how good that commissar looks for that scale, you can actually tell what he is pretty easily.

>Because apparently GW can devote the time to monitor Veeky Forums for this sort of thing but can't do the half hour of searching it apparently takes anons to find these things.

I feel that whenever some associate at whatever firm GW engages to handle copyright infringement needs billable hours, he will do a diligent search and follow through.

Otherwise they probably don't give a shit most of the time.

It's puzzling how random and inconsistent it is.

But Epic recasting and forumware is the least of their worries - the rampant amount of recasting on eBay should be their main concern. Any kid looking for a FW kit for less on eBay will immediately figure out you can get shit for cheap from sellers in China, Ukraine, Russia, etc.

To be fair, people were creating Rhino and Land Raider casts while GW was still selling theirs. They were more detailed, had chapter-specific doors, and spiky Chaos versions that GW didn't sell, but it did cross a different line than it does now that you can't buy official models.

Thanks! Naturally, I can't manage to finish an army...

Pretty sure I've seen these guys on Aliexpress as well.

No but I know a Martin from Germany who fiddles with recasting

Ive owned multiple 30k net epic/epic armies mate

--- this is my dZc table I made in anticipation for adeptus titanicus

Correct. It's a community of less than 120~ last time I checked and the main group page is not in English (I was booted for inactivity) Hell my private recaster group is ten times as easy to get verified

We've played around here with using epic rules with 10mm minis, and it works fine. Base sizes are all close enough to make it work. Plus, at this point our epic armies have stuff from every 3rd party manufacturer there is, including plenty of out-of-scale pieces from DZC, various Spartan, etc. The system has enough abstractions to allow for it.

>No such thing as a dead game.
Very much this. I honestly think Epic has gotten better since GW abandoned it.

I've been really tempted by the Definitely-Not-Tau Onslaught do, and there's 3 or 4 Epic players at my local club, so I'm gonna take the dive when I've got the dough, and had a couple of Minigeddon games with the club SM army.

I was thinking of starting off with something like this for Minigeddon:
Crisis Cadre- 5x XV8, Shas'El- 250
Fire Warrior Cadre- 6x Fire Warrior, 3x Devilfish, Bonded- 225
Armoured Support Group- 4x Railhead- 225
Stealth Group- 6x XV15- 225

Any fucking clue on the date for titanicus???

Soon (TM).

I remember them saying that it was gonna be out first quarter 2017 which didn't happen. I think the rules, models and the like are done so I'm not sure what's taking them so long.

The rules are actually excellent. But they lack all the flair and minutia you'd expect from a GW product. Additionally they rewarded a more combined arms approach rather than throwing down army killing titans. But people need special rules that say their orks are orks.

How are chaos daemons in epic 40k? Im loving the slaanesh daemon engines im seeing

What I've heard is they're tooling plastics for the 3 main titans. A man can believe. Here's a wip shot of the slaaneshi scout titan I'm working on for content. recastbro if you're here shoot me an email if you'd be so good.
[email protected] sorrow and extinction on the taccom boards

If you mean Epic Armageddon (4th edition - 3rd was known as Epic 40,000), they get summoned by chaos space marine or militia units that have the Daemonic Pact special rule. There's an experimental all-daemon list somewhere in the Tactical Command forum but I don't think it's polished. If you like those Slaanesh daemon engines, I'd start here: tp.net-armageddon.org/army-lists/chaos-space-marine-emperors-children.html

>The rules are actually excellent. But they lack all the flair and minutia you'd expect from a GW product.

I agree. Epic 40,000 was a great concept but was introduced at a time when the player base was satisfied with the 2nd edition rules and did not expect nor want a radical change.

However I've come to dislike the 2nd edition rules for their lack of detail in all aspects other than Titan combat. Infantry is represented particularly poorly.

It's interesting comparing the 7th/8th 40k split with what happened to Epic, where balance and streamlining failed.

I just made this guide on kitbashing a demon knight

...

...

This might be weird, but I like how its swaying its hips.

boogie knights

Now it seems to be difficult to get in contact with the recast we for these heresy era epic minis so first I'd like to ask how much an army like the ones posted here would cost from them?

But seriously now, isn't there a way to order from these recasters without putting them at risk? Like a throwaway mail address and a post drop to which the money is sent?

>Tony on WHTV: I want to publicly apologise that we don't have Adeptus Titanicus out yet... There's a good reason for not having Adeptus Titanicus out... And it means when it comes out it's going to be so much better than it was... otherwise... It will be awesome now, it's going to be great. A little bit of waiting I'm afraid...

>We're going to have titans that look pretty much like the 40k ones, just smaller... (responding to theoretical complaint about models being monopose like the original) No no, they are going to be so cool. If you don't like putting massive multi part kits together you will be disappointed.

Sounds like Plastic Titans confirmed.

maybe they are changing the scale back to 6mm because I cried so much.

As someone who never played epic, how did marines play in general? Could you field a significant fraction of a chapter on the field?

I'm wondering how they're supposed to be tough in a game filled with superheavies

>6mm

He said massive multipart kits, not small.

I'm with you on the 6mm though.

In 4th ed (Epic Armageddon) they’re a little bit of a finesse army. The codex list was designed to work best with drop pods and Thunderhawks, but the fan-maintained lists have reduced point costs for a lot of ground vehicles to make them more viable. They work fine, but they’re not quite as beginner-friendly as Imperial Guard and Orks.

They do lack anti-superheavy weaponry, which is why so many people take a pair of Warhound titans in their SM armies. You don’t have to, though. Land Speeders kinda work, but most of all SM have a lot of fast units that can get into position for a combined assault (using the commander rule) or supporting an assault started by a unit within firefight range. That can work fine against superheavies.

God FUCKING damnit. I would use those vehicles in a heartbeat...but for another game entirely.

Dude, recasters are bad for the hobby. If we tolerate them, then GW will lose profits and stop supporting the game.

> GW will stop supporting a game they aren't supporting

>You see what I did there

I'm an old school Warmaster fan, so I have a healthy contempt for GW's contempt for its fan base.

Nope, it'll stay at 8mm. They want to invalidate all the epic recasters and 3rd party people at the same time.

It'll also be easier to justify the absurd prices they'll charge to the fanboys since the models will be slightly larger.

>They want to invalidate all the epic recasters

Since when has releasing new models stopped recasting?

To be fair, most of the 40k players I know are turned off by how small 6mm figures are, and by how empty an Epic table can look (though room for maneuverability is the whole point). It’s even worse now that 40k is noticeably larger than 28mm. Sisters of Silence are as tall as Space Marines should be, so Space Marines grew to what Primarchs should’ve been, and Dreadnoughts are doubling in height… the world’s gone mad!

Before saying that they weren’t going to recreate 40k/30k in a smaller scale, they said they wanted you to be able to tell a Mk III suit from a Mk IV suit. That would be a lot easier in 8mm. Hell, the 30k forumware marines are 8mm tall. Too big for 6mm scale (though they’d probably need to be 9mm tall in 8mm scale). Whatever, it’s a mess. If they aren’t going to fully flesh out the range, keep Titanicus substantially different from Epic Armageddon and I’ll just play both.

Sisters of Silence are actually closer to proper 28mm than anything GW has released in years. Compare one to a Cadian. It's noticeably smaller and slimmer. They're actually almost true 28mm scale, along with the Elysians and kriegers.

I'm fine with mixing 8mm Titans and 6mm Infantry, because Titans should look huge, and them being slightly bigger only makes them look more impressive and imposing beside the 6mm infantry and tank models.

The proportions are good, but they're really tall.

Its pretty funny how incredulous some 40k players can get when they see smaller scales.

>Hell, the 30k forumware marines are 8mm tall.

When GW says 8mm they really mean 12mm. In any case, vehicles would be totally incompatible with the older ones, even if the infantry can be made to work using compatible base sizes. They could stick with 6mm and still scale up the tanks proportionally vs 6mm. The current ones are "too small"

To be fair even if the new titans are 8mm, weren't the original 6mm titans underscaled anyway?

They were way underscaled, as were the Ordinatuses and all the metal flyers. The fanmade titans are "true-scale" 6mm, and they're copied from FW's 28mm titans so they would've fit a little too well if Titanicus were relaunched in 6mm.

>To be fair, most of the 40k players I know are turned off by how small 6mm figures are, and by how empty an Epic table can look

In my opinion, if the new figures aren't small enough, then they become merely "small 40k" and ironically would be even less appealing than tiny figures to people who already think Epic was redundant in the face of Apocalypse and 28mm Titans. Also if "8mm" Titans are priced like FW dreadnoughts, then amassing enough Titans for visually satisfying battles would cost so much that it'd be impractical, resulting in tiny battles that are decidedly NOT epic.

Plastic Titans would mitigate the cost somewhat, but we shall have to wait and see.

The rules for Titanicus were written for at most 5 Titans on each side. Hardly visually satisfying.

They're from the Moon. Lower gravity.

I'm happy to see it but I'm also annoyed that it's a beetle back
i want my damn slab mechs

Maybe we'll see the Lucius again sometime. For now, it's all Mars pattern engines.

How do marines kill a bunch of titans? Do you end up utilizing like 3 entire companies per game?

Was there ever a Titan Legion list for Epic? Playing games with just a whole bunch of Titans and maybe some Secutarii/Skitarii escorts?

Yep.

Is there a link anywhere?

if you enjoy pie plates and explaining which ill defined blobs have a 15% chance of survival because they're the heaviest infantry going and which are just wiped out automatically, Epic is for you

that's only what 60 bases?

that honestly sounds underwhelming as forces go, you'd need a fleet of Land Raiders to support it

I have seen a true scale lucius floating around....

A guy called Blackadder on Bolter and Chainsword made it.

Interesting... is there a thread?

Did he make it out of bailing wire and tin foil.

bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248599-blackadders-warlord-wip/

Oh cool, so what would a more normal marine deployment be, 70? 100?

If you're deploying half the chapter for one battle, that's actually pretty damn cool.

For most situations only a battle company would be deployed. For bigger battles two or three. It's supremely rare to deploy the whole Chapter, because any serious losses could cripple the Chapter for decades if not centuries. Only in the direst of circumstances will an entire Chapter take the field.

tp.net-armageddon.org/army-lists/adeptus-mechanicus-titan-legion.html

That's for Epic Armageddon, which does not present Titans in a lot of detail.

Yeah but I mean in an actual game of epic.

Clearly games in epic are the most important battles of a campaign, seeing as they usually have multiple titans involved on both sides

In Epic Armageddon, a normal game is 3000 points. Playing around with the army list web app (link in the guide someone posted above), I get about three battle companies.

So really it would be a task force made up of elements from many chapters.

But this is a more normal list. The Scouts start garrisoned in terrain instead of taking transports. The Devastators and Assault Marines arrive together in the Thunderhawk, and the Terminators teleport. Everyone else deploys normally.

>what how can this be an epic list there are only 32 marine models on the boar-

right

stands.

Takes something getting used to