How do human/demon couples fare in your setting, Veeky Forums? Are they impossible? Subjected to intense hostilty...

As a demon personifies hunger rather than satisfaction, I have a feeling that no relationship would be stable and things would eventually escalate to a point where the human would break, even if they were into that sort of thing.

A demon is made of pure, unadulterated evil. Any relationship they pursue, however happy it might appear to be, is so that the demon can harm as many people as it possible can.

>demons
You sir are the meme, none of those have any love to them. Just demons.

>Krichevskoy didn't love the fuck outta his human wife

Demon, incapable of feeling love.
So yeah he didn't.

Demons come into being when an individual is struggling with a sin. So the only time a "relationship" would happen is if someone was struggling with lust or a similar carnal sin and the Demon took on the form of a hot chick to further tempt him, which may be initially nice, though typically in such a way that the individual's bodily desire gets in the way of their day to day lives. They may lose friends and family members, lose opportunities for wealth or to help their community, fail to go to church, all because they insist on spending as much free time as possible with a good lay.

A lot of people have fantasies of powerlessness. They can be quite comforting, making you feel special, letting you project your desires onto another person so that you can get what you want without it being "your fault." But there's a huge difference between the fantasy of powerlessness and the reality. In reality, power is everything and those without it are stuck in a living hell. It's not fun to be made to submit to someone else's will for real, because that someone will not just "make" you do things you secretly wanted to do anyway. It will go beyond that and you will be forced to do things you don't want to do. It's one of the countless harsh realities we ignore in order to let us enjoy porn.

There aren't any demons in my setting

It isn't 1950 anymore, you can just call them blacks.

He did, but Disgaea demons are a far, far cry from traditional D&D style demons. They'd honestly just be embodiment of Pure Chaotic Neutral for the most part.

Impossible, generally. Demons are less independent beings and more a kind of soul cancer-tumor/plague cyst that exist to propagate themselves and their sin. They're not really sapient and are pretty much only capable of feeling things related to their birth sin. Closest you could get is dating one of the Forsaken, i.e. people gestating demons inside them, and even then you're just dating a terminally ill person.

Now devils you hypothetically could have a relationship with, as they're intelligent beings with their own thoughts and feelings, but it'd be weird. They don't think even remotely like humans do and would be constantly trying to bait you into sinning so they can punish you for it (They're not evil so much as they are the stick to the angel's carrot, but still very much love tormenting sinners)

If they are demons then they follow the rules of demons.
Love is not a thing, they're not you're waifus/husbandos. They're pure evil.

In my setting they are possible, but EXTREMELY inadvisable. Demons are not sane, and if one gets emotionally attached to you, you might not like their "affection".

For example, a demon who loves you may turn you into stone so that they may preserve her love forever.

Another might instead trap your soul in a gem, so that she might keep you near her at all times, whispering sweet nothings to you as you scream and beg for release.

Another might first kill your friends, then your family, then every woman you ever spoke to from the most recent barmaid who took your order this morning to the midwife that pulled you out of your mother's womb, one at a time. She is jealous, you see, and cannot stand it if you interact with anyone but her.

Still others might seem perfectly loving, and yet what they are really doing is making you strongly attached so that the pain of betrayal is all the sweeter. She weaves stories of you redeeming her, and her undying love for you, and then cucks you while you are helplessly tied, watching as she fucks all the innocent people she met and corrupted while "together with you".

Another, to ensure you do not leave her, may simply devour your legs.

They are Monsters. They are Messed Up. And while a few are outwardly beautiful, every one is batshit mad and rotten to the core.

yes, a demon is capable of love, but you should fear that more than their ire

>He doesn't know the greatest evil lies in the hearts of men

What about an Immortal Anti-paladin who loves watching his Succubus feast on the souls of innocence while they burn orphanages and smite adventurers?

this is what i did for my setting too, of coarse there are those that might find happiness in the twisted love of demon but usually it ends with mortal trying tosuicide or demon extermination.

>Demons and devils are incapable of feeling love

Bullshit, they are as prone to attachment as mortals. They considered Lust, Envy and Greed as virtues.

Angels are less likely to be capable of romantic love than a Demon.

>Any relationship they pursue, however happy it might appear to be, is so that the demon can harm as many people as it possible can.

What if the Human in question is willing to do that anyway.

What if a enjoyable afternoon for our odd couple involves tormenting travelers or feasting on the bodies of children?

Homo Lupus Homini

They are possible, but will likely be distrusted by humans and demons alike.

Demons are the original inhabitants of earth, and even thought humans have exterminated or pacified many of them, they still outnumber humans the same way insects outnumber regular animals, and dark matter outweighs regular matter. As embodiments of chaos and mystery, it's impossible to say anything completely authoritative about them. There will always be an exception to any rule you make about them.

Most demon tribes seem to hate humans because humans destroyed their land or stopped worshiping them as gods, but there are types of demons who successfully integrate into human society. These demons either disguise themselves as humans or man-made objects, or simply posses humans. Some of them even live on the internet as entities made out of pure information.

Similarly, many (but not all) human religions consider demons to be either pure evil, or potentially dangerous pests to be minimized. A human who is possessed by a demon, or who has been interbreeding with demons. Will be treated with a degree of suspicion, and might even be killed or locked up. But society might also have a use for people like this, either as a medium for interacting with demons, or as a demon hunter. Sometimes they might even be able to use their abilities to help other humans directly without involving other demons.

Of course, there are lots of humans who insist that demons aren't real, or if they were real, were exterminated a long time ago by the gods. There is a rational explanation for anything, and demons are simply old superstition. If somebody tells you they are half demon, they are probably just making shit up. These people are idiots who probably don't get out much. Demons are definitely as real as anything else you might believe in. And unlike most gods, they exist even if you don't understand or worship them.

Demons are the primordial servants of the One True God, who is a right lazy cunt (scholars generally agree the world is a confusing, chaotic mess because she is a confusing, chaotic mess and recommend worshipping things like giants, hydras and dragons because those things can actually be helpful some of the time). They were tasked with building everything and were then imprisoned when they done. Their bodies, while strange and sometimes disturbing to mortals, are immutable and immune to things like age, damage and abjuration. Since in the setting travelling from one plane to another involves 'attuning' the matter you are made from to that of the target plane, demons are completely and eternally trapped outside the known universe.

This doesn't stop them from influencing the dreams of mortals however. So demons cults that use summoning circles to send young virgins to hell so they can come back carrying demon-sired abominations are actually quite common. Especially in the more backwards areas where the teachings of the Erisian proxy-faiths that dominate civilisation haven't reached (demons are the only things that claim to be gods and then completely fuck over their worshippers, even the giant underground spiders offer some sort of protection or boon and they eat like a dozen people a day. Each).

Nice try, Satan, but we all know that demons are not the embodiments of evil, that's a dumb D&D thing.

Seriously though, I find it amazing how the D&D has completely fucked over Veeky Forums's perception of demons as a concept. Demons are not actual embodiments of evil in any mythology I can think of, even in Shintoism where most supernatural creatures are conceptual in nature and assembled out of the emotional attachments and history associated with something. Even in Christian theology demons aren't inherently evil beings, they're beings that have done evil and continue to do evil - in early Judaic lore they're not even really evildoers, they just embody destructive concepts like storms and fire, things people are generally afraid of. The only support for the idea that they're not subject to the same rules regarding forgiveness and grace comes from Aquinas, and his basis for it is a dishonest manipulation of scripture that boils down to "this is just how I feel about the issue."

>Lust, Envy and Greed
None of which are love. Lust does not mean an emotional attachment, just a wanting to satisfy urges. Envy is not a part of a two sided relationship. Jealousy, maybe in a sense, but not envy. Greed just means you want to keep the object of your affection so no one else can have them, not because you love them.

It's almost like trying to reduce morality to a 3x3 grid has less nuance than most real world religions or moral codes.

Devilesses up in this bitch!

They end when the demon gets bored and fucks off, or when the human is corrupted into a demon and they both get bored and fuck off, or one or the other of them perishes. Though by demon I generally mean any type of fae manifestation from a pixie to a succubus to a talking animal, etc. They love to interfere with mortals and turn them. They find little entertainment in anything besides.

>Knowing what evil that lurks in the hearts of men
Go home Shadow, no one listens to the radio any more.

> Greed just means you want to keep the object of your affection so no one else can have them

What is Marriage?

Are you one of those bleeding hearts who believe that romantic love is a metaphysical concept?

Love is an emotion, not an aspiration. It isn't self-less or altruistic. Its purpose has and will always be a bargain between two individuals for the most successful outcome for each person involved.

Not every setting has the same rules for Demons though.

dnd has Eludecia, the Succubus Paladin

she fell in love or possibly just mistaking lust with an angel who told her to go out and do good, He didn't slay her because she was hot and because redeeming her would give him prestige and so she goes out into the world to right wrongs and fight her instinct to do evil every day

so angels can fall and demons can raise

see

Then they aren't demons.

Still evil, not waifu material.
Only good demon is an exorcised demon.

They might not fit whatever arbitrary definition of demon you deem yourself the arbiter of determining, but they're demons within the context of the story they take place in.

Okay, this is my human. Sure it is nothing like a human but fuck you I am calling it human so it is.

Your problem is that you don't know what a demon is.

You just know what a D&D demon is and apply that to the entire concept. And even then you're wrong, since D&D demons can canonically become good.

Did you not read that post? Demons are not evil the way you understand it in most mythologies.

For example, early Jewish demons are just dangerous. Ashmedai, the nigga Asmodeus is based on, genuinely loves his wives and is noted as a noble king with a great deal of good advice to give. That's why Solomon binds him, and why the two develop a mutual bond of respect as kings.

Okay. It's a human within the story you made that a human. That's not even clever, you're just taking what I said to a ludicrous extreme. The issue where your "clever" comment breaks down is the fact that humans exist in real life.

>demons are good boys, they din du nuffing
So that's why people like them and don't go to great deals to get rid of them.

That's not what he's saying at all you retard.

Do you think the fucking Keebler Cookie elf and Legolas are the same things too? Jesus christ.

>Then they aren't demons.
So this is what autism looks like.

So you're saying that a vague term for a fictional concept, that is used to mean different things based on the circumstances and definitions presented in the instance, many of which still contradict eachother even in the context of the same mythology/religion, to the point that said word ultimately has no meaning outside of either a vaguery or one being in the context of a singular specific, some how allows to tell whetehr something is or isn't said thing?

The problem, you dumb uneducated nigger, is that you're trying to apply the contextual definition of a phrase to all instances of a phrase, despite the fact that said definition only works for that singular context. This is wrong, and shows ignorance and an inability to undestand contextual definitions or the fact that even the definition you're working under is a contexual one that isn't even close to what the original definition of said word is, but rather you've focused yourself on a term that is specific and used only within the confines of a singular franchise, one which has never even been known to show any accuracy for terms and words to begin with.

tl'dr stop having autism you moron. D&D did no invent the phrase "Demon", nor is it the arbitrator of its definition for anything that isn't D&D.

>Misconstruing a point and strawmanning this hard on purpose
I suggest consuming large quantities of arsenic

>no, my animu waifus are demons and they are pure

>projecting and strawmanning this hard
Kill yourself, and take your false dichotomy with you.
Next you're going to say that Berserk demons aren't demons, because that one demon at the beginning loved his daughter and refused to sacrifice her to gain greater power to kill Guts

Yes.
Dick spirits but not demons unless he had more nefarious plans for her.
Demons are always 100% irredeemably evil, that's their thing. No matter how much weebshit you post it'll never change.

It is perfectly plausible that the demon calculated a net increase in misery and chaos in the world that would lead him to make that specific choice.

>stawmanning this hard

>Christian theology
>Semitic religion
>Mesopotamian folklore
>Persian and Indian religion
>weebshit

>Demons are always 100% irredeemably evil
According to who? Do you have a demon we can interview or something? Have you seen one? Can you tell me about Dragon mating habits while your at it, since you seem to be an expert on the psychology of fictional beings throughout every work of fiction ever.

>dating a psychopath who physically and emotionally abuses you
Just like my ERPs!

When presented through the lens of a Japanese man that does things as stupid as having them feel love, then yes it's weebshit.

Being this stupid should be illegal.

The point isn't that demons are misunderstood goodies. It's that they're a broad concept that predates D&D and have never been embodiments of evil, or incapable of stuff like love. The primary attribute of demons in folklore all around the world is that they are dangerous and do not function according to human rules. Many of them ARE evil, but they're also capable of having positive traits.

Remember that many of the things you probably associate with pure evil weren't even considered bad things back when these stories were considered reality.

Counterpoint: the epic level wizard behind temple of elemental evil was summoning the demon prince of pleasure for booty calls.

Demons can feel love in actual Semitic mythology. And Persian and Indian and Japanese and Chinese and CHRISTIAN mythology.

Again, you're just woefully misinformed regarding the concept.

Sure a fire isn't evil but you're a retard for sticking your dick in it. And you're not talking it out of being harmful (evil) when not tightly controlled.

Nobody is fucking talking about anime or Japanese shit you retard.

>in foreign mythologies where they aren't demons and in a recorded game of telephone across at least 5 different civilizations

>Demons are always 100% irredeemably evil, that's their thing.
So Judaism and Islam are weebshit now?
So Neverwinter Nights is Weebshit?
So Greek Mythology, which is where the term Demon comes from to mean a minor spirit that does unimportant background tasks, is weebshit?
So TES is weebshit?
So WoD is weebshit?
So Hellboy is weebshit?
So fucking TOLKIEN is weebshit shit because of Osse in the Silmarillion?
Care to shoot yourself in the foot some more? Or are you getting tired of being proven wrong yet? Please cut off your hands, as clearly you can't be trusted not to be a complete moron with them. very point you've made has not only been completely wrong, but your only defense has been to perform projecting and strawmanning about subjects and opics that are completely unrelated to the topic at hand, all because you seem incapable of thinking that D&D could be wrong, and that years of Western culture, mythology, and literature are somehow weeb because they fall within some bullshit arbitrary quality that only you seem to ascribe to it.

You are wrong, all your thoughts and defenses have been entirely subjective, and only a blithering autist would think what you have been trying to support has any objective backing. You are ignorant, clearly have no actual education or bcking in the field you are trying to argue in, and all this does is make you look like a wilfully assholish flat-earther.

Fuck off

>t. Someone who has never read Berserk

So you're telling me that the Torah was written by a Japanese man? And that all Kabbalists are Japanese?

Except they are, using them as argument that demons are not inherently harmful and evil entities because of a video game.

Sure.

Many stories involving demons and love DO end tragically. That's kinda the point of them, often. One of the most famous Chinese stories is that of a snake demon who falls in love with a human, and their marriage is seem as a disruption of the natural order by a powerful monk who decides to put a stop to it, reasoning that it will disrupt the dao and bring about disorder. It does, because every time he tries to get in the way, the demon gets mad and unleashes typhoons and floods and the like.

The point isn't that demons aren't dangerous, and aren't often evil. It's they've never been presented in any mythology as literally made of evil and incapable of doing anything else.

By that definition, the only mythology that should have Demons then is Greek Mythology, and even then the go completely counter to the definition you've ascribed to them

The only person who started the argument was you. Its clearly obvious that said user from the very beginning started with that because he wanted to make a Disgaea reference anyway and just wanted to have fun. You're the person who turned this into an autistic spergfest

>is a of this stuff that isn't demons weebshit
No but you're gifted with a beautiful mind.

I'm not the one writing entire college theses as to why the evil entities are actually okay people.
I'm saying demon = bad.

>Semitic
>Christian
>foreign

The fuck are you talking about? Early Semitic religion is the basis for Abrahamic religion. Christ, you're dumb.

And the demons of Persia and India and the like tick all the same boxes as these guys. They're demons.

>why the evil entities are actually okay people

Nobody is saying that you stupid fuck.

How can you fail this hard at reading comprehension?

Literally one person has brought up Disgaea once.

Every other argument has been about how demons in mythology are not like demons in D&D.

If they aren't then why are you sperging out over them being called evil?

And we're telling you that's wrong and has no actual education backing in anything, and the fact that you're trying to enforce it as the only pure definition despite the fact that every definition outside of D&D and Warhammer runs counter to that,speaks great volumes of how wilful you're trying to be with your ignorance and justification.

Also, no one is saying that "all demons are okay people" Only that in every methology where they exist (save for specific fundementalist/heretical sects and cults like Mormonism) that they are generally considered "dangerous, but no auto-evil"

Since when does "not auto-evil" mean "good"? That's like saying that all humans ever are "good" because we generally have the free will to choose to not be evil.

Please kill yourself

>why are you sperging out over them being called evil?
Because saying "all demons are evil no exceptions" like you are is both wring, ignorant, and everytime someone tries to counter it with actual mythology and western literature, you do nothing but shout "WEEBSHIT WEEBSHIT ANIMU THIS IS MY SAFESPACE REEEEEEEEEEEE!"

I'm not. Nobody is.

The point is that evil =/= incapable of love.

The other matter is inherent evil vs just plain evil. D&D's interpretation of demons as literally made of evil appears nowhere in mythology. Even in Christian theology, demons aren't 'pure evil' - they're angels who turned evil.

If you torture and twist a demon long enough, will it love you?

No, demons are pure loving waifus that mean old god just doesn't like.

That's no love, its Stockholm Syndrome

Stop trying to strawman, it just makes you more like an ignorant tool who's incapable of understanding arguments or admitting when he's wrong

Let me put it this way.

>Pregnancy from immortals only lasts a few months, they grow quickly once born to adolescence and remain that way for an indeterminable amount of time before growing into an adult form. Shapeshifters who take on a form halt their growth, meaning a cambion who acquires the power to alter itself may not grow beyond a fetal stage in extreme cases.
>The mother often dies giving birth, as the immortal suddenly gains awareness and has no idea where the fuck it is and might end up clawing or chewing its way out in a panic. This can be averted by communicating with it telepathically and hoping it listens when you tell it to be calm.
>Half-immortal offspring are very prone to uncontrollable powers, alien biology, and serious mental illness. Sociopathy and paranoia are common, as are megalomaniac beliefs.
>Many of them are unable to consume food (this is especially true of demon children) and have to rely on something else to sustain themselves. Their bodies can last a long time without sustenance but they will eventually degrade and die if they do not find what they can consume.
>They're generally outcasts, but few actively discriminate against them.

>demons are bad
>REEEEEEEE!!!
>okay, demons are good
>REEEEEEEE!!!

>human/demon couples
It's called possession, and OP SUCKS COCKS IN HEEEELLL

>Having a pre-school understanding of morality.
>Not understanding what free will and accountability is
Gotcha, I guess that means that Humans are Good, since we aren't auto-evil. Time for me to take a truck and run it into people on the street and blow up the local airport, because its not a problem since I'm Good and only Demons are evil, because its impossible for action and accountability to exist and define my moral nature!

Got any more false dichotomies, projection, and purposeful misreading you want to throw at me? OR are you all out and tired of being shown to be a complete idiot yet?

ITT stop biting his hooks already people

The more straw you use, the quicker it burns, dude.

Just stop. Accept that you know nothing. The D&D interpretation of demons isn't even bad if you want to use it. But don't get your panties in a twist over people using a more mythologically accurate interpretation of demons.

Free will is a lie as is your understanding of the world.
If demons were not inherently bad then we wouldn't go through such lengths to exorcize them.

>Free will is a lie, which is counter to Catholic belief
>talks about Exorcism, which is a catholic practice
Yup, you're retarded. If free will is a myth, then why are you trying to bother arguing since its obviously not within your power or capability to change my opinion since my own will is not mine to control?

Further, if free will doesn;t exist, how can Good and Evil exist when there is no such thing as consequence since we're all merely programs and puppets for a singular entity, this completely free and bereft of any form of moral accountability or imperative? Further, if free will isn't real, and we are all being controlled with no will of our own, does that not mean that the Demons are the same, and as such are also free of the same moral definitions as us, meaning they are not evil but rather another puppet program of an inscrutable creator?

Why are you so retarded Spinoza?

>usually it ends with mortal attempting suicide or demon extermination.

And if the mortal succeeds in committing suicide, congratulations! You're in Hell with your love forever.
there is no escape

>Free will is a lie
Monsoon pls leave

Instinct plays a big part.
Demons are bad maybe because they can't help to be evil the same way a snake can't help but strangle it's food in a very distressing manner or the fish that swallow their food alive.

>are not inherently harmful and evil entities because of a video game.
Are you legitimately retarded. Demons are not inherently harmful IN DISGAEA THE VIDEOGAME. In that instance and demons are not evil. No one is trying to make a grand sweeping statement about all demons in all fiction ever, except you.

But then that's not evil. Animals are not evil, because their actions are purely driven be biological and mechanical need and they are incapable of introspecting on their own actions and need. As such, any demon who lacks any form of free will, and as such is incapable for introspection and decision to control their own action, would be no more evil than a firearm, a butcher's knife, or a robot on a conveyor belt screwing in bolts into a car or what have you. All these things are capable of harming and causing damage other beings and things, but lack the efficacy to do so on their own without some form of intent or force onto them from an outside entity.

As such, any cosmology where Demons lack any manner of free will, cannot claim for the individual demons to have any ethical imperative placed on them, as it would exst solely on the shoulders of the being that controls and imposes its will on the demons. This cas being either the equivalent to the Devil (only if he himself has his own free will), or the setting's creator deity (again only if he imself has free will which he impresses upon said will-less demons)

If no such willful entity exists in the setting period, then the world is no different than an advanced computer simulation, and as such is merely an object and process that exists without morality, as none who dwell within it can pass any test of the cogito and assume self-actual responsibility.

This is why Spinoza was branded a heretic and excommunicated from the rest of Judaism, for his philosophy and worldview removed any moral responsibility and accountability from mankind, and instead placed it squarely into a singular omnifocal entity which existence ran counter to the nature of Yaweh as a separate entity from humanity

And also because it meant they couldn't hold the Spanish Inquisition accountable for their actions at the time.

Succubus's trick mortals into taking their souls. They would love to get a powerful soul to trust them, then use their powers to take it.

Relationships with succubuses are impossible because they're not mortal, they are ancient, malevolent beings with an outward facade of beauty, and many years of experience in manipulating mortals.

See above, same concept.

Demons represent negative emotions, but have a perverse love of humankind that's entirely unhealthy. Human/Demon pairings are common among champions of the dark gods, though it extends beyond the seven deadly sins and most are of varying degrees of Evil.
For example the Dark goddess of loneliness, abandonment, depression, suicide, etc. She has a tragic (platonic) love for all of her champions, and when they die they go to rest in her domain: a cold land shrouded in Night, with a hearth kept going that they can all crowd around for warmth.

Demons of Envy have a kinda Tsundere relationship with humankind, granted most couples end with some body horror and the Demon trying to literally get under their partner's skin. Demons of Rage enjoy Humanity as Battle Brothers and pairings between them and humankind frequently involve the two grappling with one another, killing each other, being revived, and doing so all over again in increasingly horrible ways.

Guy's either trolling or cripplingly autistic, I wouldn't bother.

>Succubus's trick mortals into taking their souls

What if you don't need to trick the mortal in question?
What if your relationship with the mortal actually leads to you causing more damage?

I think you are stuck on the idea that love has to be positive. Men have burned empires to the ground and laid waste to civilizations for women.
If they are attracted to power than people with power are attractive.

In my campaign, which I'm pretty sure is a pretty standard interpretation of 5e D&D, demons aren't exactly dating material. For one thing, the rarity of planar travel means that demons are mostly confined to the Abyss, fighting each other or other fiends in an eternal carnival of cruelty and hatred. On those occasions when they are summoned into the Prime Material, they act roughly the same way there as they do when they're at home, killing and torturing anything obviously weaker than themselves.

Only a small handful of archdemons are capable of deviating from this in any way, especially Graz'zt. Graz'zt rules over a city he constructed in apish mockery of the civilizations found elsewhere in the planes, holding the facsimile of a royal court with polite and even well-dressed demons entertaining guests in his cavernous and nightmarish Argent Palace. There alone might a human find the trappings of romance or courtly love as interpreted by Graz'zt or one of his courtiers, but only as a prelude building up to murder, enslavement, or other horrors for which mortal beings have no words and limited ability to imagine without being unlucky enough to experience them.

...