So now Gav Thorpe has retconned the origin stories of a Primarch and a Phoenix Lord respectively, what can we expect next?
Even as one of his fans, I find his recent books ridiculous. Sure, Jain Jar story kind of make sense and interesting, but for Lorgar's he made the man looked innocent and the real perpetrator was Kor Phaeron.
>the man
Primarchs are tools. That's the point. Treating them like humans always was a mistake.
> well written
> written by Gav Thorpe
Choose one and only one
You're right, when has treating sapient beings like objects ever turned out wrong?
Gav Thorpe won't be content until he's ruined both fantasy and 40k.
>You're right, when has treating sapient beings like objects ever turned out wrong?
For most of known human history, see women.
I mean blatant bait aside, very few ancient civilizations treated women like objects. It's almost entirely a feminist meme.
>but for Lorgar's he made the man looked innocent and the real perpetrator was Kor Phaeron.
Well, yeah, because that's what the fluff is.
>But a man such as Kor Phaeron should never have become a Space Marine. His ambition for power had led him as a child to the Covenant, and thence to Lorgar. As the Word Bearers sat becalmed in deep space, following the Emperor`s rebuke of Lorgar`s slow advance, it was Kor Phaeron who first gave voice to the idea that if the Emperor would not accept their worship, there were other beings in the galaxy who would. Kor Phaeron understood Lorgar`s need for acceptance and he knew that the powers of Chaos turned no-one away. Kor Phaeron s quest for power had now led him to Chaos and as Lorgar brooded over the Emperors reproach, Kor Phaeron worked subtle manipulations and whispered appeals to Lorgar`s pride, slowly poisoning the Primarch against his former master.
>but for Lorgar's he made the man looked innocent and the real perpetrator was Kor Phaeron.
Hardly. Lorgar was always shown to discard people and put "truth" over other people's lives.
It wouldn't have made a difference with Lorgar anyway.
He wouldn't have been happy unless he was on his knees sucking SOMEBODY'S divine dick. Emps just wasn't into incest. Or gay.
Did he explain why Lorgar was such a wimp?
Was he molested by Kor Phaeron as a kid?
>he knew that the powers of Chaos turned no-one away
>Chaos just has shitty standards
>Chaos is the 99%
Gav's book tells that Kor Phaeron used to beat Lorgar senseless when he was young, and only stopped when Lorgar was big and influential enough.
And he also only gave lip service to Lorgar's idea of The One before and after Emp showed up.
>The manifesation of Eldar hatred who attempted more than once to genocide the Eldar race, is more of a father towards his adopted children than the Emperor towards the Primarchs
ha ha ha ha.
>beat Lorgar senseless
>Lorgar
>a Primarch
>when other Primarchs were slaughtering Eldar warbands hours after leaving their pods
>or other Primarchs were surviving on Chaos infested death worlds
>or other Primarchs were living on volcanic hellholes
What the fuck? I thought Alpharius and Omegon were the Primarchlets, how fucking worthless IS Lorgar if a human could beat the shit out of him even from the cradle?
Lorgar is a masochist so let himself be beaten.
Dude, Lorgar allowed himself to be beaten because he loved Kor Phaeron as a father.
Have you never seen how abused children act?
1. Lorgar is the weakest primarch
2. It was most likely as a kid
3. It's mentioned that the WB, and ergo Lorgar as well, are hardwired to worship something or someone (don't ask me how it works), so worshipping his adoptive father means he didn't strike back
How could Kor Phaeron even hurt him enough that it would actually cause pain then? Primarchs can shrug off bolter rounds to the face.
>How could Kor Phaeron even hurt him enough that it would actually cause pain then?
He was young at the time, and had his largest strongest guard flog him. It quickly came about that his skin couldn't even be broken so he had to have his five strongest guards beat him with large metal clubs.
you have to admire his dedication to beat the shit out of a retard child
>so he had to have his five strongest guards beat him with large metal clubs.
Sounds like a nice massage compared to the other Primarchs upbringing.
This is hilarious.
>'We can' t properly beat him, mylord! '
>'Get four of your comrades and this adamantium-club.'
...
GW only gave Matt Ward a job so people would have something to hate more than Gav Thorpe.
Seriously, Gav Thorpe's involvement with 40k from 3rd to 4th edition paved the way for the utter shitfest the game became between 5th and 7th ed.
Give most people a time machine and a magic gun and they would elect to kill Hitler. I'd do Gav Thorpe, Matt Ward and Alessio Cavatore.
To be fair, Hitler's pretty resilient. Wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in 30k or 40k too.
He's probably one of the Perpetuals.
What's wrong with cavatore?
>but for Lorgar's he made the man looked innocent
Wew, what?
In this account his fall is due to a number of factors, some of which are out of control and some of which aren't, but he is very much guilty of many of his own poor decisions. Ultimately, Lorgar could have stepped back and tried to rise above his obsession or stopped staking so much of his self worth on how much the Emperor approves of him at any time, but he didn't.
The Emperor being a dick to him doesn't really change this.
My friend fields a demon prince of Tzeentch who he insists was Hitler in his mortal life. He tends to get shot a lot.
>Alessio Cavatore
Wtf
>Alessio Cavatore.
nigga he wrote mordheim. that was a good game.
Waaaaahhh, waaaaahhh, three guys wrote badly for a fictional universe that's attached to a niche hobby. I want to kill people that are in no way violating any laws or the rights of other people because they wrote badly.
Seriously, just go fuck yourself you absolute cunt. You're the reason why people associate this board with incessant whining and bullshit.
You're that guy people tell horror stories about meeting in game stores.
Jain Zar's Beyblade is so retarded and he didn't even bother to retcon that
>shooting Hitler
His books are one of the few places where what is canon stay canon. People jerk off to ADB books, but he made the Emperor into a dick and changed Angron storyline to make him more "dramatic", even though he was always a stupid asshole that just wanted to get vengeance for the slight on his martial honor. But what we get? Someone who calims that watns to be freed of tyranny. RIGHT...
And even then, he is one of the few authors that risk writing about Eldar, because Imperium is where shit sells.
Yet More Proof (if any was needed) that Kor Phaeron would have been voiced by Tony Jay.
I'll be honest with you, reading ADB Chaos-wanking, daddy-hating drama-filled stuff makes me realize i didn't hate Matt Ward that much. Seriously, this whole shit with Chaos going full Hokuto no Ken "It has already won" and the Emprah becoming a moustache twirling retarded fedora is so much worse.
And i'm an Eldarfag, i shouldn't even care about this shit.
Yeah, I know that Gav doesn't write perfect books or anything, but he WRITES about other stuff without making them super op or weird. Path of the Eldar at least gave us a good look into what its like being part of Eldar society.
That's retarded and not supported by anything prior to MoM.
Wait, what was changed?
You've got to be trolling
4. Gav Thorpe is a fucking war criminal of an author.
Pretty much nothing to be honest.
Hardcore Imperiumonlyfags are just really butthurt at the solid confirmation that the Emperor wasn't such a great guy. We all knew the Primarchs fell as a result of errors on both side of things, but seeing it written out in detail rustles these peoples' jimmies.
Not the person you're replying to, but I know that a lot of people weren't happy when Calvatore started to influence the design studio with his ultra competitive mindset. I'm torn, personally - it was better for generating more refined and sensible rules, but paved the way for the endless power creep which, combined with the ever increasing model count and prices pushed by marketing, changed both core games into the bloated, unbalanced shitshows that are/were.
Thorpe writes mediocre flavor text stretched out into (fucking awful) novels. What you're moaning about with adb and others is what the literate call engaging characters.
Top lol, but seriously it like passes from believable abuse into some benny hill shit as he desperately tries to find a way to abuse this child.
8th edition was basically throwing out everything Cavatore paved the way for.
Cavatore was one of the best things that happened to GW and I can't imagine anyone but the crustiest grogs hating on the stuff he did. I'd understand if he was responsible for De-RPGifying 40k and WHFB, but he wasn't. He came in after the fact and just made the stuff that was there better.
They just do it better
>kor phaerpn beats lorgar and shit talks him the entire time: the book
Not even Luther was this mad when the lion stole his glory
>His shitty name is listed five times in one paragraph.
>Two consecutive sentences begin with it.
>His name appears twice in a single sentence.
This irks me more than it should. It's like this guy is in middle school and didn't have an editor.
>Kor Phaeron's plan was working perfectly, Kor Phaeron thought to Kor Phaeron; soon Kor Phaeron's goals would be accomplished through the cunning of Kor Phaeron.
Is kor phaeron a long distant relative to cato sicarius?
I don't mind the guy, I just hate true line of sight. When so much of 40k is approximations you can't get your head around a base with 3-5 trees on it representing a dense forest? Get a grip m8.
and your the reason the game has gone to shit and will go to shit. Tasteless faggots that will slurp anything GW shits on settings that used to raise it up and then whine when someone points out how certain people are responsible for the degeneration
I like Gav's Dark Angel books......
The finale of his Unforgiven trilogy was actually a neat twist.
What did the Emperor do wrong?
He makes the children of his enemies his greatest champions and companions, fights for the common man over superhuman monstrosities (since he views Primarchs and Astartes as tools that are less human), and literally tries to save all of humanity despite Chaos constantly ruining all his shit.
Just because the Emperor is honest and calls his creations creations doesn't mean he's a super big dick. And clearly isn't a turbo athiest since he's aware of Celestine and the church and didn't tell Guilliman to waste them all.
Cavatore is tainted by association with the CSM4 codex forevermore. He, at least, had the grace to lie low until the furor passed - unlike Gav Thorpe, who continued trolling outraged customers with mealy-mouthed rationalisations of his perfidy. These amounted to Nuremberg-like protestations that 'i jus dun like i was tol' and smirking that he believed flavourless books were best, and so should we. As a reult, the stink of the Gavdex Debacle won't wash off of either of them.
why all the hate for ADB? i thought his NL series was really great but haven't read anything else yet
ADB is excellent. But has 2 major flaws in my opinion.
1. he seems to have come down pretty hard in favor of: Chaos is the inevitable winner. Everything sucks there is no hope.
2, He seems to really hate the Emperor, and his portrayals of him has Emps come off as a supreme asshole. Like, the biggest asshole EVER, of all time.
>what is canon stay canon
Treating them like humans made them great.
>1. he seems to have come down pretty hard in favor of: Chaos is the inevitable winner. Everything sucks there is no hope.
You say this like it's a bad thing.
Change "Chaos is the inevitable winner" to the broader "mankind is the inevitable loser" and we good.
It is a bad thing.
You cant create new models and fancy toys to sell to manchildren if your setting's stagnation would canonly block such weapons.
Which is why Roundtree said fuck that and is sigmaring 40k, except skipping the chaos victory to go straight into Ultramarine wankfest.
He came to terms with getting venerated.
No, it is a bad thing. Take that sarcasm cock out of your mouth.
You forgot literally 1 billion muslims
>adb and others is what the literate call engaging characters
t. pleb. ADB writes the same characters, then changes the color of their armor.
Also, at least Thorpe can write the Lion as being a paranoid unlikeable shithead, unlike ADB, whose characters are all "dindu nuffin"
>Hey everyone look how /pol/ I am
>uh oh someone insulting my fanfic?
>better scream out muh /pol/ boogeyman
Take a Valium or something, you hysterical kook
>>Alessio Cavatore.
>nigga he wrote mordheim. that was a good game.
But Islam is a feminist religion user.
...
What about C. S. 'Mr Multilasers' Goto?
terrible books, but at least I knew that they didn't expect to be taken seriously
I'm far more curious about whether or not 40K will have a future after Game's Workship is (justly) sued into oblivion.
To be fair, the The Last Church set that up pretty clearly, and Legion implied it too.
No, he fights for Mankind, not the common man. Those aren't the same thing.
He'd a jumped up autocrat with too much power.
>GW going bankrupt over salty florida man sueing them
Would be hilarious to watch, but I'd rather not see 40k as the IP of someone else. GW isn't exactly good at managing their IP either, but I dread the day Disney or another huge company picks up 40k.
This. Making Chaos characters (like Talos or Argel Tal) is a good thing IMO but ADB almost turn them into the good guys we should support because they were the true victims of the system bla bla bla...
The "Emprah is bad" stuff never bothered me that much though. His gestion of the primarchs seemed highly stupid or hypocritical to me far before ADB came around.
The demands of the suit means if GW lose, Warhammer will become Public Domain within 10 years. Nobody will own it and everybody will own it.
And Hindus and buddists and christians.
Every big religion basically.
If they lose, maybe. But again, from what I've seen it's just a salty floridian store owner who's mad he can't sell his WHFB boxes (or nobody buys them anymore).
>Christians
>treating women as objects
dibs bedora
>who's mad he can't sell his WHFB boxes
He's also mad GW told him they weren't going to supply him because he was selling recasts.
It's a retarded suit that has no chance, because you can't sue pro se for violations of someone else's copy right.
>is what the literate call engaging characters.
you mean his gary sues an waifus?
how many times can you read about a brown marine with a pale waifu and not realize adb is just writing about his cuck fetish?
I liked that about the book Fire Warrior. Technically, it's a victory for the Tau and the Imperium, because they thwarted a grander Chaos plot, but the victory itself is a pyrrhic one. They still had to subject the planet to Exterminatus and there was nothing gained; just a whole lot of people lost their lives, limbs, or minds. And, honestly, there wasn't a better outcome possible from the beginning, given the forces involved.
The Cato Sicarius of 30k is Autilon Skorr.
Gav Thorpe is an example of why GW can't design a game worth a damn. He's a terrible tactician, shitty writer, can't paint, has an obnoxious smug attitude, and isn't too bright. Naturally GW had him writing codexes for years, along with generous heaps of the game background. He also worked at White Dwarf for a long time. I recall that he played in almost every battle report in the magazine for over a decade and lost every single game. Once he ragequit an extra large game of Fantasy in the middle and refused to finish it, and so the ragequit was included in the battle report. The only thing he did more than lose batreps was write tactics articles. Every single one of them was useless and pretentious, much like Gavin himself.
A company which is not brain-dead will note which employees can't do their jobs and remedy the situation. GW doesn't do this for their design team. Instead, who gets to stay is determined by who stays in their little circle of friends. Morons like Gav get to stay, and people like Andy Chambers get pushed out. Fast forward a decade or two, and you have a game company with a truly shitty ruleset they are incapable of fixing.
Interestingly, there's new life to 40K, since their new CEO is shaking things up. It seems that Gav and his posse have simply moved over to writing shitty 40K books, and are continuing their good ole boys club there. Which is why most of the 40K books suck ass and it's almost impossible for an outsider to write one.
> civilization
Not what religion has many individuals. Like, are you stupid, or just stupid?
>Start to read Talon of Horus
>Protagonist has a personal daemon friend who kills major khornate daemons and doesn't afraid of anything and looks liek a TOTALLY BADASS GIANT WOLF and is 100% loyal despite being a daemon and also has a dark eldar waifu who is also completely devoted to him looks like an angel and can kill like ten spehs muhreens (the badass chaos kind, not shitty loyalist ones) in a second because she's so fast and also badass
ADB is a good writer from a technical stand-point, at least by BL standards, but I find most of his stuff cringe-inducing as fuck. He can't seem to just write characters that feel like real people, they always have to be these quirky snowflakes that read like something a 12 year old would invent, just a mashup of a bunch of different 'cool' concepts.
The Drukhari maiden was a noble princess who happened to be a scourge which explains her anglelic appearance. You better believe that Drukhari true blood augmented by cybernetics and bioengineering which slap marines around.
Gyre was an Undivided daemon thing. Undivided daemons are unique in that they follow no pattern. She formed symbiotic bound with Khayon, eating the edges of his soul but serving him.
wasn't Khayon's pet the soul of one of his HH-era serfs possessing a fenrisian wolf?
Reminder that any gods-fearing Word Bearer considers only "The Last Heretic" and possibly "Betrayer" to exist
like user said, what a 12 year old would invent
Gyre was Khayon's spiritual familiar/guide (read daemon). It protected Khayon by killing a wolf and taking its form.
Seem like typical 40K characters to me.