/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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>News
kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/chronicles-of-darkness-dark-eras-2
paradoxinteractive.com/en/white-wolf-partners-with-focus-home-interactive-for-a-video-game-adaptation-of-the-world-of-darkness-storyteller-game-werewolf-the-apocalypse/
>This week's Monday Meeting Notes:
theonyxpath.com/just-another-manic-monday-monday-meeting-notes/
>Question:
Who is/was the best WOD/Chronicles artist?
>5th editons cliffnotes
pastebin.com/cp0r59da

Other urls found in this thread:

comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/magicpower/lists/dc-comics-top-magic-using-heros/15006/
matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Nightmare_Matrix
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>We have to rely on chronicle of fagness to create the least fagtastic OP

I unironicly love whoever did the art for revised era oWoD. Some of the reused 1 / 2e stuff was shit but books like Guide to the Anarchs had some good stuff

There's a lot of good art. The weird part is that it's mostly in the Vampire books.

We don't need the new Demons. They belong to nWoD even less than mages. Not to mention that they aren't demons at all.

I mean that's fair.
Mages aren't really even mages (and you mentioned them), Geist are neither sin-eaters or ghosts.

This is a common problem in CofD.

Switch it up, man. You can't just use the same argument for two splats. You've got to start working it up. Come up with new pieces of bullshit, or people will write you off. Look, you're really good at this, I'll admit. But you just need some art to it. There is no one size fits all approach to trolling. I mean, except for edition wars, but whatever.

>We don't need the only good splats in nWoD.

I do remember that every legal body has to have it's own enforcers. Consilium has to have his own police and army, otherwise there is no way to make law a law.

I've never heard any compelling arguments for why Mage doesn't fit, and I doubt I'll ever hear one for Demon either.

I don't think there is any way to say any game 'doesn't fit' besides someone's opinion.

You mixed me up with somebody. I mean that if you call mages a superheroes, then you can't say with serious face that demons belong to nWoD. That's just too hilarious.

Let's start with that they aren't demons in classical sense of word, they are machines in service of other complex machines.

See? That's what I mean. You're trying your one size fits all thing here. You need to find another angle. Try something like 'techgnostic espionage is too complex for WoD's limited system and belongs in something really advanced, like Earthdawn/Shadowrun". It's as much a shitpost as superheroes, but you're not marking yourself out or trying to draw thin butter over two concepts when it doesn't even cover one.

I remember one book had images of both some vampire woman in a netcafè looking for people to eat and one playing in a band on stage. Can anyone tell me what book it was?

To be fair, the idea is that they are amazingly complex tools, in service to a giant complicated tool.

Which actually fits with the lore of angels, and certain views of god. Angels have little free will, making them mystical tools of god. God technically already knows all that has been, will be, etc, so all of his actions are already set because he already knows what will occur, making him a giant machine.

If you take the 'machine' aspect literally, you just get the God-Machine, the Angels, and then Demons.

Different user, but I will say Descent would fit oWoD and Fallen CofD better then the current setup, IMO.

Why would that be? oWoD Demon is pretty tied to the metaplot, what with Christianity being de facto real and all.

That's exactly the reason why nDemons isn't replacement to Lower Depths Demons, and via versa.

Personally I like the robot-cthulu interpretation of god more than the absentee father figure myself.

>not doing the work yourself
You get what you pay for

>Who is/was the best WOD/Chronicles artist?
Whoever did the work in Bloodlines: the Hidden.

>mages a superheroes
But mages are super heroes. Their costumes give them more power

Yeah but we have Goetic Demons, Pandemonium Demons, Abyssals, and spirits of vices.

After all of those guys, the only thing Lower Depths demons would do that is 'unique' is offer power in exchange for control of your soul or whatever.

Guess who does that?
GM Demons.

Lower Depths demons no longer have a role, and they don't even have a real location since the Lower Depths barely is described or exists. It is in one blue book (which is 1e now) and mentioned in Mage 2e. Honestly, Mage doesn't need the Lower Depths, not even for 'mysterious demons' to show up.

Lower Depths and their demons are just extra.

Mages have superpowers but they are far far far away from being heroes.

Having alternate 'cancer universes' is a useful narrative device for a high power game like Mage though.

>Mages have superpowers
Super Villians whatever
Point is they get make up in costumes and Larp reality into doing their bidding

>the only thing Lower Depths demons would do that is 'unique' is offer power in exchange for control of your soul or whatever
Lower Depths demons aren't really interested in your souls. Things they are interested in taking you are the things you can't afford to lose, like individuality, substantiality or ability to die. Lower Depths demons are like Abyssals, but you can't meaningfully interact with Abyssals. Lower Depths demons don't want to corrupt and destroy reality - they want to strip mine it.

Lower depths entities aren't demons. They're just things. The lower depths Demons of Inferno are interested in Sin, because it sustains them. They can survive on what's already in their Hell, but it's like a human eating shit, according to them.

>Lower Depths demons are like Abyssals, but you can't meaningfully interact with Abyssals. Lower Depths demons don't want to corrupt and destroy reality - they want to strip mine it.
Surely you meant that you "can" interact with Abyssals?

I mean that's fair, and there is never a reason to remove something that already doesn't have to be used. I guarantee a majority of the people here who have played, haven't had a lower depths entity in their games at all. They are just super niche.

They just seem like such an afterthought, without much that they do different from the myriad of other 'evil demonic things'. They are really just spirits of vices, but they don't respond to spirit magic... probably.

It feels like someone snuck in a chance to have their bog-standard 'hell' in the setting. But it doesn't really fit that role either.

I hate this picture with a passion. It's just like it's waiting for an full on cringe character backstory to be posted next to it, but doesn't even need the text. The cringe is already there.

The person who started talking about them called them demons. I guess you could call them that, though it's not really talking about them. Just as title "Demons" not talking much about servants of GM.

I said you can't interact with them meaningfully. That's because Abyssals are, by definition, outside of our understanding. You can react to their actions, but you can't predict them, you can't influence them - they just happen to you as byproduct of magic.

> They are really just spirits of vices
No, they aren't. That's the Goetia.

>but they don't respond to spirit magic
They don't have to respond to any magic, because they don't play by Fallen World's rules. Just as any other Abyssal.

Yeah, but that's a troll. I'm trying not to respond to it.
If it helps, that's supposed to be from a book accompanied by a bit of text on gender bending.

>Point is they get make up in costumes and Larp reality into doing their bidding
That's not what superheroes do.
It is, however, what Wizards do.

comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/magicpower/lists/dc-comics-top-magic-using-heros/15006/

Care to try again?

following your argumentation, do Beasts belong?

I think it is cute they included a reason to use precious and pure virgins in your blood sacrifices. Since high integrity characters give more mana.

Not that losing your 'virginity' lowers integrity. But losing 'purity' by being introduced to terrible influences or doing bad things, does.

means they also have super villains

Gay egyptian warlock is my favourite supervillain.

I prefer to pretend that this line never existed. I guess that there is a place for "legendary monsters which defy classification" in WoD, but Beasts as they are aren't worth talking about.

That's actually an incredibly poor list for your point. Out of all 128, there are less than a dozen wizards, and only three of them are what you would call superheroes. Dr. Fate, a guy who channels a spirit of order or something close to that, and the Zatannas, who dress up as stage magicians. The others, like Constantine, Ali Ka Zoom (homeless wizard), and Doctor Occult aren't superheroes. Constantine and Doctor Occult are like detectives. And The Wizard is like an Archmage.

The list is also wildly broad. It includes any character who has powers from magic, not just magic users and not just heroes. The Endless are on there, and so is Vixen, for example. If you're going to keep baiting with the superhero nonsense you'd do better to just spam Dr. Strange.

How is changeling the lost 2nd looking?

>Dr. Fate, a guy who channels a spirit of order or something close to that
I'd say he's a Spirit Ruling Obrimos in that case.

I guess it is being rewritten a lot.

So it will depend (to me) if the Huntsmen and Court creation stuff from the previews stay in.

If so, it still looks interesting.

Maybe, but it's the other way around. The spirit is in control of him, as I understand it.

>Magea aren't really even mages

Yes they are

Can Changelings be sexy? Can I fuck them?

You can fuck anything if you try hard enough.

Yes, and yes.

On two levels. Their human form takes on some aspects of whatever is being hidden by their mask. So if you are dealing with a lady who is a lusty elemental of spring, her hair will have the bounce of flowering buds, and she may smell of morning dew. (On the other hand, her skin might feel a little like bark, and her hair have hints of bird poop. You know, whatever floats your boat).

She could also make a contract with you to allow you to see her true form, which could be whatever kind of sexy fae creature (or horrifying, depending on how you feel about cyclopean giants, or skittering spider-people).

Do we know what exactly was the Ascension Warrior? a clone? nobody but self-claimed imposter? Which book should I check to find out?

Like trash. Hill's version was far more mechanically sound, Rose seems incompetent on all fronts when it comes to writing or directing people to write mechanics.

>Rose seems incompetent on all fronts when it comes to writing or directing people to write mechanics.
What is he doing wrong?

Basically taking everything hill did and rewriting it as slightly to grossly worse.

They are really fucking the book in order to not pay Hill.

I thought the 20th was cWoD re-make/reboot. Are they rebooting cWoD AGAIN - separate from the 20th or something? what's going on?

Swedish Dracula is attempting to make One World of Darkness.

V20 is now considered 4th edition
Paradox owned Nu-White Wolf has a 5th edition in the works.

Can you open a node inside an object and/or within a Realm, effectively making a self-sustaining Realm?

So if I'm reading mage sight correctly, peripheral mage sight wouldn't actually notice that a creature pretending to be human is weird, that would need active mage sight right?

They give the example of a ghost at rest in twilight. Not until it uses supernatural powers would it ping on peripheral, right?

Isn't Rose one of the 3 not shit writers in OPP? She was one of the main folks that did D:tD and that was probably their best work.

MacFarland also did Demon, that didn't stop him from fucking beast. Personally all the books rose has done since the core vampire have been shit. Thousand Years of Night was a mess of untested mechanics and bad stat blocks and changeling 2e is shaping up to be the same thing.

As a rule of thumb I just say supernatural things 'at rest' don't ping until they're 'in motion'. If I need another way to prompt slowpokes into taking closer looks, I just describe the atmosphere as being very charged or heavy, or that the hairs on the backs of their necks stand up, etc.

That makes sense. They could have a slight 'unseen sense' sort of feeling, but not know what is making their hairs stand on end.

Though I guess doing that could spoon-feed them the idea they should go into active mage sight.

>Though I guess doing that could spoon-feed them the idea they should go into active mage sight.
It's used sparingly. If they miss something, they miss it. I try to be adaptive most of the time.

>Who is/was the best WOD/Chronicles artist?

>TFW Mage 2e has no unicycles

Yes, unless the Mage had Death 2, which grants them the ability to sense Ghosts "at rest" in Twilight.

Yeah, but that's an added extra, so whatevs. Cool, good to know.

blood mage vampires can fight equally against awakened mages right?

>Throwing away evidence when it contradicts your world view
k

>They are really fucking the book in order to not pay Hill
>It wasn't already fucked under Hill
What are you a HillFag?

Nope

>blood mage vampires can fight equally against awakened mages right?

Not. Even. Close.

So what's the pointo f having other casters when one group is going to be better than the others? I understand that vampires are weak but shouldn't their own magic be a match to even things out for the sake of balance?

What fucking balance you turd? Game lines are not written to be balanced with other game lines.

Fuck off. Baitting 1/10

CofD 2e, and Mage 2e in particular, were explicitly not designed for crossover balance. Each gameline's mechanics are designed to enforce and emphasize its themes and setting, nothing else.

CofD rules are generally compatible, but that in no way implies one splat is "balanced" against another.

It's a matter of quantity(Vampires) vs quality(Mages)

A true wizard is going to humiliate a blood sorcerer in a straight up duel. Or in any magical endeavor, really. No question. Wizards are wizards.
The only thing going for Vampires is the fact that they've got bigger numbers and their magic being relatively easier to use, with little to no drawbacks to speak of.

This goes for both OWoD and CofD.

Most every major splat has some sort of 'sorcerous' faction, such as Changelings and the Autumn Court, or Werewolves and the Bone Shadows Tribe.
Mages on the other hand are wholly and entirely defined by the concept, and as such are rightfully the most powerful when it comes to matters of the arcane.

It's not a bad thing.
It's thematic.

>sake of balance?
Gave it away.

Everything is bait for you guys, at this point.

You don't know who to trust anymore, do you?

DaveB is the only one i trust.

>You don't know who to trust anymore, do you?
Sure I do.

No one.

You fool, your beloved lizard has forsaken this place.

I doubt he even reads these threads anymore.

He does. He's made his presence knows a few times recently.

Who here hyped for the crossover chronicle giving mages a much needed beat down with the nerfbat

The True Fae wouldn't be able to kidnap anyone unless, they had a Contract with the whole of Humanity to be able to do so.

Who could make such a contract? Who in deed, hmmmmm? Maybe... maybe a certain Oracle of Fate and Time, hmmmm? HMMMM?

Why must mages shit everything up?

They might be nerfed for crossover, sure, just like vampires might have some way to be playable not only at night. But if you're trying to rustle magefags, the Crossover Chronicles won't do it. It's not like Mages would be nerfed in their own book, and player crossover is commonly denounced here. Most magefags say you should nerf Mages to use them in crossover anyway, so all the Crossover Chronicles would be doing is taking care of that for you.

No nerfs in Crossover Chronicles. Just ways to help you with storytelling other splats.

I wonder what would happen if a Fate 10 Archmaster walked into Arcadia.

The Wyrd now has a new master.

And some hefty Pax screeching.

>Thinking the crossover chronicle will have rules and not just boring ST advice like thousand years of night.
It probably won't even cover any of the questions people really want answered.

That reminds me. Did they ever explain what the 6+ Disciplines some characters had in 1k nights mean? Was it a typo or do elders have access to some form of super disciplines?

If it's the later it would have been nice to have idk actually mechanics explaining what they could do.

>WOD is cannon to the Matrix
lol
matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Nightmare_Matrix

I don't think any single Archmage could stand against the Wyrd

The Ruin et al. has vested interested in the status quo. As with all things related to archmages and the Pax the question isn't can I? It's are you prepared to deal with the fallout?

Have faith in the komodo. He is a just and all powerful god.

A Fate 10 Archmage could make his own Wyrd with blackjack and hookers.

Ten dots in an Arcanum is Assumption, permanent Transfiguration. Full omnipotence over 1/10 of all reality.

The Wyrd is living fate, therefore it is now the bitch of the Archmaster.

Or Fate 9. Make a spark of a duplicate Wyrd and let it run its course within your Chantry.

I'm fairly certain you don't need 9-10 dots to make your own realm where you reign supreme over all. 7-8 would be enough.

And to think we were working towards a Hunter storytime last thread.

THIS IS A MAGE THREAD

FUCK OFF

Mages shit up everything. We all know this.

Exhibit A, for example.