I'm planning on going to the Grand Prix in DC but am stuck on what deck to play, i have a lot of experience with both zombies and Blue-Red control. I feel like the format is slowing down enough to where control is viable but i am still very worried about the ramunap red match up.
Control - mtggoldfish.com
Zombies - mtggoldfish.com
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UW and BR control are both growing in popularity, and those have pretty decent matchups against ramunap. That said, your UR could use a LOT of work.
Locust is a sideboard tech at best, too inflexible and slow on the main.
Get 3 or 4x torrential, that's your main, and often only, wincon, and it dies to abrade.
4 supreme will is too much. If you're going to run that many get extra disallows and censors and stuff instead. Censor in particular is extremely good, try 3-4
Less Harnassed, more abrade. Abrade is good in mirrors and against Gift.
That sideboard is also a mess. Try dragonmaster for UW monument, and 2 crooks.
thanks, the sideboard was the thing i was really concerned about, not very good at sideboarding since i only get to see my local meta.
I went down a harnessed lightning and a supreme will for another censor and abrade for a 3-3 split for harnessed/abrade and a 3-3-3 split for censor/disallow/supreme will.
I definitely need help with the sideboard but added another crook and will pick up some Dragonmasters this weekend but I'm not really sure what to cut, maybe the by force and ceremonious rejection?
crook op
Well, ask yourself basically, what do I want to win with, what do I see will prevent me from winning, etc.
For one, Torrential is a really good card and you absolutely need more of them in this abrade heavy meta.
As for your sideboard, most of it is useless. Chandra's defeat is nice on paper, but look at the actual Ramunap red decks today. Very few creatures with 5 life, and by the time they get chandra you'll have 5 mana for HoD anyways. Plus, you can just counterspell her.
Ceremonious rejection would be great if people actually played more colorless spells.
Everything else is fine, but it's just very unfocused in general. Try some glorybringers, more crooks/dispossess, etc for mirrors and hard matchups. Locust god is also a viable sideboard option, as is scarab.
It's really not anymore, Gift decks have found ways around it using their own artifact hate and counterspells. Really, best thing is splash some black for dispossess.
would something like whirler virtuoso be good against ramunap red, it can two for one their smaller things and there are some energy synergies in the deck
Standard booster boxes are getting pretty cheap right now, especially on ebay
I'm thinking about picking two up next month.
Which ones should I get?
I'm thinking Hour of Devastation and Kaledesh
I don't understand why people want to play control in standard. I'd rather jump off a cliff than play that garbage archetype. You're going to have games where you draw nothing but land and draw spells and lose to zombies/mono red. And then you're going to get paired up against RG Ramp and get buttfucked.
Save yourself the trouble and play a proactive deck.
Eh, that's a stretch. More removal might just be better, Kozilek's return in particular is a fantastic value card. Instant speed 2 damage AoE clears their board, and you can flash it back with fatcaster mage.
Kaladesh has highest expected value, IIRC, plus lots of great masterpieces. HoD isn't as great but has a few decent cards. Probably go Kaladesh.
Because countering spells is literally addictive. That feeling of saying "no" and watching your opponent get more and more upset.
"if i blow up ur thing you can't use it"
I mean, you're right, but that's true of every magic card. Crook allows to to modify a graveyard at instant speed, possibly twice if necessary, in a format that goes past turn 4. Don't be daft, it's a solid 2-3x sideboard colorless card that can effectively go in any deck, shuts off delirium, aftermath cards, eternalize and embalm.
>Control can't beat Ramp
What color is the sky in your world.
Has anyone tried the mono white eldrazi list? Any success?
I'm running a similar list that splashes black for Scrapheap Scrounger and Shambling Vent.
half the cards in the deck is dead, eventually the ramp deck is going to get their lands and cast worldbreakers to blow up your mandlands, then cast ulamogs.
you have to put a fast clock on them but they have 4 abrades for gearhulks
Are you running black sideboard cards? The white noodles decks i've seen have had some pretty terrible sideboards.
>4x fumigate
>3x Dec
>4x Fragmentize
>4x Stasis Snare
It just hurts to look at.
You must be under the assumption I'm in Mardu. Sultai bros have none of those issues.
I'm talking about UR Control vs RG Ramp.
Not whatever your FNM brew is for your meta
>I was talking about this specific control deck when i said an archetype
>i don't know ur deck that makes it a fnm brew
I forgot how the standard general goes. I apologize for posting.
This is all good and all but do i run control or zombies, competitively what is the better choice
I would have figured a RDW or Boros wins deck would be pretty viable right now. I guess Boros is just WR exert. Or are they running out if steam still before the kill?
>RDW
I mean, isn't that Ramunap Red is? Just straight mono red aggro.
I thought ramunap had black in it for dread wanderer and cut to ribbons?
Or, thinking about it now, that might have been just at my LGS
Many Ramunap builds play cut to ribbons, but they never actually cast ribbons.
There were variants that splashed black at the Pro Tour but more often than not the deck is just straight up mono red.
Pummler a good deck?
yeah I agree, even if you have to utilize your own graveyard too (as in a control or delirium deck) you can often come out ahead even saccing your own graveyard too since many reanimator decks rely entirely on gift and spells to get their dudes into play.
pummeler will still win you FNM if you know how to pilot it and you know your opponents
The problem with crook isn't that it's not a counter, but it's too slow of a counter. GPG decks run blue white, and often have a slew of ways to disallow or cast out or whatever the crook. It has to stay on the board to be effective, which gives the enemy time to draw out their effective counters.
Dispossess is one black mana more expensive than crook and makes GPG decks much, much weaker. It just says no to their main wincon. They rarely expect it, too. Not only that, Dispossess is also very good in control mirrors.
The issue is more just that the matchup is going to be hard fought, crook or no, unless you splash a little grixis.
Very
It'll survive rotation too. Toss in an elephant against control and you're golden in most matchups.
My issue with dispossess is that you usually have to take a turn off to play it, and turn three-four are fairly important turns in most matchups you need it, besides control. Crook on the other hand can be played almost any turn since it's just one Mana and you can use it in more matches, like delerium and WU monument
Crook is 2, and on those turns as control usually you're just counterspelling anyways. It's better to get rid of all your opponent's GPGs and Gearhulks, rather than maybe censoring a 2-3 drop.
As for WU, the main issue there isn't the monument. There's so much board clear and artifact hate just in UR that the monument isn't a big deal, or the board flood. The issue is westvale abbey, and that's why you'd want a dragonmaster outcast or something on the sideboard.
Dispossess is just literally the best answer to those decks, and Transgress is always good, as a 2-mana shit thoughtseize. The issue is, of course, having to splash black and damaging the deck's consistency. Though it does make getting god pharaoh a little easier.
Not to mention, nimble obstructionist cucks Crook HARD. Blocks the removal and now you have a flier in the grave you can potentially grab back as a 4/4 with haste. That shit is game-ending.
Will KLD-IXL standard be the first standard ever without goblins and elves?
crook has the upside of being able to come down on turn 3-4 or even 5 and then exile your opponents graveyard in response to any shenanigans or removal
at that point just have scavenger grounds and sack everything at once.
>responding to OP's post
>UR Control decklist
Which flavor of BG should I use to defeat Gift-combo? Delirium, counters or another spice entirely?
So Veeky Forums, with all the control running around, How does one destroy it?
Mono red
not anymore, seeing as magma spray is now a must have and can shut down some hard aggro decks until they get access to the other counters
dispossess and target gift, then they have 4 dead cards in deck :3
With the hope of the universe
or this guy
They're counterable
splash blue lol
They better be. They're already OP as hell.
Counter them, exile them, or essentially lose the game.
I was thinking about getting a gift box or a fat pack, particularly for the box. Which standard set is the best? Does Kaladesh have the highest EV like someone said?
Also, I know this is standard but I was thinking of buying MM15 and MM17 boosters for about €200 each, is it a good price? Thinking about opening one each and maybe investing in another MM17.
I'm a noob who never played the game in 16 years who likes to collect shit and has a bit of money to waste.
I want that fucking playmat but I can't go. What's my best way to get it?
wait for someone to win and then sell on ebay covered in cheeto dust
eBay is your best bet, a lot of people probably won't want one
lame
So I'm playing in GP Denver tomorrow and playing in a bunch of side events today and the deck that gave me the most trouble was the GR ramp. Anyone have any ideas on what I should be side boarding against it? I move in a playset of negates and 2 confiscation coup but it didn't work most of the time. Any suggestions bros?
>Misspelled Indestructible
>Giving a Blue/Red Creature Vigilance and a damage prevention ability
>Double Strike, not doublestrike
>No color indicator on backside
>Not putting the artist as Akira Toriyama
You sicken me
you murder it before it can control, can't drop locus god if they're dead by turn 6.
Do you think there's any way to make a prowess list work right now? Seems like it could be semi-decent with all the one mana pump spells, but it still feels really underwhelming.
I'm finding the UW Approach to be really fun. Won me then FNM last night.
How are you guys enjoying the new control meta?
its a tough match but i usually bring in a scarab god and dragonmaster outcasts.
If i can counter their ulamog/world breaker then reanimate it with scarab god in the next turn or two usually it's game over.
The outcast can work to swarm the field with dragons if you counter some of their hour of promise's or other ramp cards.
the negates work too but it definitely is not favored for control.
definitely less creatures, you want at most eight in the main board, definitely 4 stormchaser and probably 3-4 bloodwater entity.
riddleform is also your best friend, it triggers prowess and can swing in for three, not to mention the late game scry potential.
you also want more cantrips like crash through and slip through space, these are the best uses of mana since they can find more instants and sorceries to keep triggering prowess.
you might want to try tormenting voice or cathartic reunion as well to go through the excess amount of lands that you can draw.
you should probably main some number of abrade or magma spray to deal with aggressive decks that can out pace you
>Best decks in the format are Zombies, GB Delirium, and RDW
>Control meta
Ok I'm new and I don't understand why standard and modern are a thing. MTG is above all a game, why the fuck would WOTC decide to not reprint powerful cards from the past? Who cares about collector's value, the old ones will always be the first so the value will remain for collectors and players will be able to enjoy the game.
About standard it obviously only exist to make WOTC shamelessly turn a profit, limiting yourself like that is like running the 100m with one leg, it might be fun one time in a while but gets boring quickly.
Reprint the best cards often so that it doesn't become a pay to win like vintage and create new powerful cards (able to counter the old ones) so that you can see more than 10 decks, that's all they need to do.
Or?
Personally I've liked slowerish formats than modern and legacy so I mainly play sealed and draft, that and standard rotation usually forces new and creative decks to be created that have a shot at meta potential, legacy and, to an extent modern, are mostly solved formats that have very little innovation unless a card is banned
>that and standard rotation usually forces new and creative decks to be created
>legacy and, to an extent modern, are mostly solved formats that have very little innovation
I understand this, that's why I said WOTC should create new powerful cards that can allow for a widening of the meta instead of banning old and powerful cards and divide the playerbase into poorfags/richfags.
For the game sake that would be better and the obvious thing to do but I feel like it won't be as good economically wise for WOTC and that's the only reason it won't happen.
Still, yeah, I understand the importance of standard as a way to get people into the game and as a challenging workshop for new strategies.
Also I was wondering what MTG players think about using fake cards (even obvious ones, like placeholders) just to play the deck you want to play.
wait... you're un-ironically advocating for power creep as a method of balancing with the reasoning behind why its not being done already is because it would be less profitable WOTC?
>gets offered the possibility to race with a Ferrari against a Lamborghini for a cost of 10
>no thanks, I prefer to race with a Yaris against a C1 for the same price
Maybe I'm retarded, please explain.
I like games that go to turn three
Isn't taking account of other people's strategies and being able to respond to them the correct way to play a game?
Anyway they could still print new, limited versions of the old cards or simply limit them with rules, if they can't counterbalance them with new cards.
OK
If every set is progressively stronger than the previous set, you are purposefully creating a rich-get-richer situation, except its the company that gets the money instead of the secondary market. So, only people who specifically spend money every set would have access to cards would win. It would mean if you hadn't bought more cards within the last few sets, you won't be able to play competitively at all.
If you want real world examples of this, look at the pokemon tcg, or yu-gi-oh.
>you are purposefully creating a rich-get-richer situation, except its the company that gets the money instead of the secondary market
I said to reprint cards and make them easily available. Just not enough so that stores stop buying boosters and people stop buying packs.
What if you could play the equivalent of Legacy or Vintage for like €200 a deck, instead of €30k? If you're VERY poor you could still play Standard.
It's not like MTG is a game for poorfags right now anyway.
There's a pauper format for poorfags thats actually in a good place, and one of the defining difference s between formats is the average win turn for decks, vintage is turn 1-2, legacy is 2-3, modern is 3-5, and standard is 6+
Are you purposefully ignoring things I say?
1. Pauper is still what, €50? Not a huge difference from Standard or what I'm talking about. Still not for real poorfags.
2. I said that they can limit the old cards with new rules or create new cards to counterbalance them, it doesn't HAVE to end in 2 turns.
If there's a problem you can try to fix it, they prefer not to do it.
feel like you should main a fuckton of removal like shock/flow and try to win that way, would probably just side soul scar because he doesn't have flying if you're going with the 0 removal plan idk how he will ever get damage in past turn 1 or even get his effect off.
Also being able to mix modern with legacy and vintage doesn't mean pauper can't exist anymore.
I think it's stupid to limit yourself like this, with modern and the old stuff.
>reprint cards and make them easily available
But that's exactly what they're doing. It's the whole point of the Modern Master's series: Put the cards out there, invigorate interest, bolster the format.
If you're talking about reprinting the old ass, busted vintage stuff, then you are hopelessly naieve. WotC basically didn't figure out how to design cards till Mirage block, and even after that there were some doozies. But a whole bunch of the old, old stuff is either unplayable crap or super broken.
It would completely mess with the flow of the game to reprint most of the powerful vintage cards... the idea that they would proceed to reprint a game breaking card, then make up new rules to completely change the game to balanace breaking it with an obviously broken card is insanity. I just can't see where you're comming from with this.
Vintage needs to stay vintage... if you just want to play with the cards casual, there's plenty of way to proxie them.
>If you're talking about reprinting the old ass, busted vintage stuff,
This, yeah.
>super broken.
Fix it, don't ban it.
>It would completely mess with the flow of the game to reprint most of the powerful vintage cards... the idea that they would proceed to reprint a game breaking card, then make up new rules to completely change the game to balanace breaking it with an obviously broken card is insanity
Isn't that what they're already doing? They keep making new rules and implementing mechanics BUT they still ban cards. Invest your time into fizing things instead.
>if you just want to play with the cards casual, there's plenty of way to proxie them.
So does the MTG community accept fake cards? Under what conditions?
What the fuck do you mean "fix it"?
You mean rewrite the card and change it's effect? Why the fuck would you "reprint" it if you're just going to do that? Just make new fucking cards. Oh, look. THEY ALREADY DO.
They ban cards because they warp the metagame. They're either much better than anticipated or have an unforseen interaction with the format. This happens after the fact because they didn't realize the problem, or underestimated how big it would be.
The idea of repriting cards that are already clearly broken, would definitely warp the fuck out of the meta because they ALREADY HAVE and would create utter, degenerate chaos on purpose is just plain fucking stupid.
Okay guys I have a question. I'm making a black/white zombie deck with token buffs. with the release of Amonkhet meant the release of token cards. When I create a 1/1 warrior token that ends up in the graveyard, can I put him in my hand via Wander in Death? If so, what does he cost to play again? Embalm specifies a zero cost zombie token, but I'm not sure for warrior tokens summoned by cartouche of solidarity.
Thanks for the help
tokens get exiled the moment they enter the graveyard, or rather, are removed entirely from the game (i'm not sure you could put it back in graveyard with some of the Eldrazi abilities)
dragonmaster as in dragonmaster outcast?
yes
idk, I shat all over zombies and GB with UW control.haven't tried against RDW yet.
that blows. Thank you though
Wait but what happens if you return a target token to someone's hand?
yes
it just disappears.
From the comp rules:
>110.5f A token that’s in a zone other than the battlefield ceases to exist. This is a state-based action; see rule 704. (Note that if a token changes zones, applicable triggered abilities will trigger before the token ceases to exist.)
>110.5g A token that has left the battlefield can’t move to another zone or come back onto the battlefield. If such a token would change zones, it remains in its current zone instead. It ceases to exist the next time state-based actions are checked; see rule 704.
Basically a token represents the idea of a permanent. This is true whether it's a creature(like the above warrior tokens) or any other type of permanent(like Investigate's Clue tokens).
It is not a card, or a copy of a card, so it has no existance outside the battlefield. It has no casting cost or mana cost, cannot be cast even if it could somehow be put into a hand, and does not exist in any zone outside battlefield. Once a token leaves the battlefield, it simply ceases to exist. Now a token does enter the battlefield(when it is created). And a token can leave the battelfield (whether exiled, destroyed, dealt leathal damage, returned to it's owner's hand, put back on top of its owner's library, etc); however because it is a token, as soon as would change zones it instead no longer exists.
Essentially like so: You have a 1/1 warrior token. I magma spray it, dealing two damage. Once damage resolves, it has been dealt lethal damage, and thus would be put into the graveyard from play. This will trigger any effect that looks for creatures dying, permanents going to the graveyard, or permanents leaving the battlefield. But the token itself will not be put into the graveyard, instead it will cease to exist instead of being moved to the graveyard as a state based effect.
Someone hasn't played vs good control decks then...
UW is a shitstorm...
...
Idk it just feels like you're going to get religiously 2x1'd trying to get damage through with those pump spells. I've played UR Riddleform Prowess and it's fun, but very hit or miss.
>About standard it obviously only exist to make WOTC shamelessly turn a profit,
There's your answer.
Modern was just a counter measure so players wouldn't go ape shit when standard was made oficial
What are you even talking about. Standard has ALWAYS been official. Well, ok, since fucking 1995 at least. Back then it was called Type 2 but it was functionally identical: A yearly rotating collection of the current Core set and the most reccent expansion sets.
Modern was introduced for the fans because they wanted something that gave them a much more robust cardpool but without having to deal with the soulcrushing costs and utter shenanganry that was playing the unrestricted pools (Type 1 and 1.5, now Vintage and Legacy, respectively).
get your scarab gods now or it'll be too late after this weekend
and no it's not a control deck playing it
>Emerge
>Green Ramp
>4/5c 'aggro'
>Abzan Midrange
>Esper midrange
>All under aggro
Is there a way to play Magic online?
MTGO, Xmange, Cockatrice.
I don't know much about MGTO's pricing methods. Is it prohibitively expensive?
It's cheaper than paper. I like drafting and playing edh on it.
I feel like I should probably hold off until I've played more than 3 games.
they made modern because they wanted an affordable alternative to legacy
Blue fetches were like $10, a lot of cards became cheap when they axed extended. Then the format got popular.
Mono-Black Hellbent that I've been having fun with. It's not exactly competitive, but the looks on peoples faces when I draw 7 cards a turn is hilarious.
// 60 Maindeck
// 4 Artifact
4 Ghirapur Orrery
// 23 Creature
4 Haunted Dead
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Heir of Falkenrath
3 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
3 Gifted Aetherborn
2 Archfiend of Ifnir
3 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
// 3 Enchantment
3 Call the Bloodline
// 8 Instant
3 Fatal Push
2 Murder
3 Grasp of Darkness
// 22 Land
19 Swamp
3 Westvale Abbey
// 15 Sideboard
// 5 Creature
SB: 2 Zulaport Cutthroat
SB: 2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
SB: 1 Archfiend of Ifnir
// 1 Instant
SB: 1 Grasp of Darkness
// 9 Sorcery
SB: 3 Yahenni's Expertise
SB: 2 Ruinous Path
SB: 2 Lost Legacy
SB: 2 Transgress the Mind
Use Cockatrice, completely free.
