Putting aside systems were minmaxing is an obvious meta and stats have a balancing problem...

putting aside systems were minmaxing is an obvious meta and stats have a balancing problem, what is wrong with point buy?

nothing, did you really need to make a thread for this?

the only thing i regret is the cooldown i have to wait out until i make the next one

When compared to classes?

No role/niche protection

if it doesnt benefit the players to stick to these in the first place, then why should they?

It benefits the gameplay.

And if your players stick to it anyway, why not just play class based?

Nothing. Its easier to design. Easier to balance. Allows more creativity. However, its harder to learn to create competent characters and is less friendly to first-timers.

>it benefits the gameplay
OP said games where free choice doesnt break the game

Players may accidentally make something actually creative and interesting. Id rather play something more open-plan and give them the chance.

>OP said games where free choice doesnt break the game

You know I'm just saying that limiting choice tend to improve games, right? A more focused game is usually better equipped to deliver the experience it is trying to deliver.

>Players may accidentally make something actually creative and interesting.

If a class systems stops them from doing so there's a problem with either them, or the system.

Class systems inherently limit what you can play, and without good balance they can harbor sub-par choices which are ontologically identical to more useful ones.

>Class systems inherently limit what you can play

Yes, that's the point!

If you are playing a post-apocalyptic game about survival in the wastes, allowing building things that don't fit or invalidate the setting at all is pointless, if not downright destructive. Handing the players the classes tells them what the game is about and what archetypes are at play in this world.

>and without good balance they can harbor sub-par choices which are ontologically identical to more useful ones.

Equally true for point-buy systems (or more).

If OP is working under the assumption that we are discussing some "ideally balanced" point buy system, not extending that to the class systems is a dishonest argument.

but isnt that where the GM comes into play to prevent "unfitting character concepts" from being used?

Sure, that's not really an attribute of the system itself though.

Classes, random creation, etc. make it easier for players who come to the game without a character concept. It also forces veteran players to move outside of their comfort zone once in a while. Also, point buy generally increases the amount of bookwork needed to make a new character. Some people love the "mini-game" of making characters in point buy systems, for others it's like putting an excel sheet in front of them and telling them to do their taxes before they get to play.

Not him, but you can either have the GM handle it, or have the game do it automatically with classes. "The GM can fix it" isn't a valid defence of a mechanic that isn't performing well.

If we're going to assume a properly balanced system, that too includes the system not giving you options beyond the game's intended use.
Just because a system let's you allocate points freely doesn't mean everything is permitted.

Why would a pointbuy game have skills to choose that don't fit the game? That is the same as saying a class system would have classes that don't fit the game.

That rolling stats is a fundamentally flawed system for most people is shown by all the various, sometimes very convoluted ways people go about cutting out the random nature of it. They think they want to roll for shit, but in reality it sucks donkey arse when you want to do one thing, but the die rolls say otherwise, or when your character ended up being just plain not good at anything and condemned to playing second fiddle to the other characters (just as how people don't like overpowered DMPCs, it renders the PCs irrelevant as anything but cheerleaders).

Some people do like randomized characters, and hopefully they get to play like that and enjoy it, but they're few and far between.

>100 point character in GURPS
>leave all stats at base
>set aside 20 points for peripheral skills
>put 80 points into Rifles
>now have DX+21 in Rifles since skill cost doesn't escalate
>can take a couple minor disadvantages to have DX+25 if I feel like it
>now I have a 35 in Rifles skill
>WITHOUT aiming I can headshot a running target at 200 yards and still be rolling against 17
>with aiming I can do it even further out, or in darkness

That is what is wrong with pointbhy systems. 100 points is on the low end for characters too by the way.

>That is what is wrong with unbalanced systems
ftfy

>if you ignore the problems with point buy, what are the problems with point buy?

Takes a little longer. Players tend to get wishy-washy when decisions are involved. With rolling you can throw the dice, jot the results down, and get right down to it.