/wmhg/ Warmahordes general

Hmm guess I picked up wrong faction then because I hate playing attrition.

Anyway in the second battle I was using my vigilants as speed bumps and they did alright. However I was thinking about replacing them with crusaders.

So I primarily play Trollbloods. Who should I pick for my second faction? I'm thinking either Retribution or one of the two Minions. Although, Gatormen might be a bit redundant.

Retribution is in a great place right now, almost nothing in the faction is actively bad except for like Destors and Nayl. All three of their current theme forces are solid and once we get the Dawnguard and probably Vyre+Nyss one next month they'll have all their bases covered.

They play a very effective Alpha game but coming from Trollkin you're going to be a lot squishier than you're used to. Not much in the faction can take a hit except Imperatus, the Colossals, and maybe Ryssovass Defenders. Dawnguard have enough ARM to survive guns but aren't gonna stand up to warnoun attacks and everything else pretty much survives on DEF.

The battlebox is solid and Helynna is actually one of the factions better attrition casters if you want to was in to it. Everyone else ranges from good to great, though their power is gonna be below some other factions in exchange for Ret baller infantry. I would avoid Ravyn because she just doesn't do a ton since they took her best tools but otherwise I don't think any of the casters are bad if you plan well. Ghyrrshyld and Garryth are both kinda weird but serviceable.

So after a surprisingly successful Steamroller this weekend I asked around and there's interest in playing the Battle for the Athanc campaign at my store. Has anyone run it before? If so how was the response, did you make any changes? I've read through it once so far and nothing jumps out as needing to be changed for MkIII except the points values of Banners.

How are riflemen? They seem like a cool bunch.

user means this:

privateerpress.com/no-quarter/web-extras/nq-65-battle-for-the-athanc-campaign

What would you guys run against a Troll list like this if you were playing Protectorate? Nothing I do seems to work.

His other list is Doomy3 in PoD. My list pair is usually Kreoss3 and Amon and my local meta is pretty much all Cygnar all the time but that's not giving me as much trouble.

Here's the specific Troll list

Borka Kegslayer - WB: +28
- Keg Carrier
- Rök - PC: 21 (Battlegroup Points Used: 21)
- Slag Troll - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7)

Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0

Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
- Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17
- Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5
Trollkin Fennblades - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer - Officer & Drummer: 0
- Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3
Trollkin Warders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10
Trollkin Warders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10

Lots of heavies. The only armor cracking he has is Rok, Slag, and the champs. Everything else is gonna have a bad time.

They're decent in the right list. Being the only RAT 5 troops in the faction hurts them a bit but casters like Ossyan, Issyria, Ghyrrshyld, and Elara can help, plus CRA obviously. They get one turn of boosted attack rolls if they can get close enough and the Houseguard Thane can let them remove Stealth or move faster which can be super useful.

They're certainly not my favorite shooting unit (that would be Invictors) but if you play them as your backline guns they should have ample opportunity to get their shots off and take out key pieces. In Defenders of Ios they can be a nice follow-up to your Halberdiers who are going to be a mile downfield thanks to Advance Move. Heavy Rile Teams can pair well with them since the Thane can boost either one.

Also I forgot they can CRA into melee which can be great for clearing some jammers off of your Halbs. Keep in mind that the target still gets the in-melee DEF bonus so you'll want to stack big CRAs or try to get close enough to minifeat and CRA in pairs.

>Not wanting to see how the holy masses slowly crush the heathens under their just wrath.
Seems like you are a heretic yourself user. Please keep your schedule free on next wednesday for a free wracking session by Reznik.

PoM is like 90% about attrition, just letting you know, that's their game.

--->
This. I think even Khador is less straight forward than the Protectorate.

How are retribution gunlines?

Any assistance with my list?

What's the 10? Daughters?

Quite good. Helynna and Ossyan can both take pretty good advantage of jack gunlines. Ossyan of course turns all guns up to 11 and Issyria makes everything good. Rahn likes guns to finish assassination runs.

Strike Force aren't as potent as they used to be but still have game in to troops and some jacks, Stormfall still hit like a ton of bricks. I like Invictors a lot because they're high POW and have Assault.

The Battle Engine is a fantastic centerpiece to gunlines now that it always shoots twice and bumps Jack ranges and is super hard to kill.

I like it.
Should be serviceable

What is your typical strategy for Invictors? I've been running mostly melee lists with the occasional Rahn assassination vacation, so Stormfalls are the only ranged unit I've made any regular use of. Invictors seem like a versatile haymaker, though short ranged in both attack modes.

Does Vyros2 have use for a unit each of Sentinels and Invictors, or is he permanently stapled to Forges theme?

Thanks, user. It is just for friendly games anyway.

I'm having fun building lists with it too. Currently working on one that just has a bunch of the big and tall models purely to look intimidating and badass on the table.

No theme
Kromac, Champion of the Wurm
-Druid Wilder
-Ghetorix
-x2 Pureblood Warpwolf

Lord of the Feast

Tharn Bloodpack
Warpborn Skinwalkers + UA

74 points

Do they purposely build those insider "example" lists badly? Implying the druid mist riders impact attacks are worth anything (mat5 pow10) He even took the 3 point solos for free and not the 4 point solos.

We're doing fun lists?

>Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

>(Strakhov 2) Assault Kommander Strakhov [+22]
> - Berserker [9]
> - Torch [18]

>Man-O-War Kovnik [5]

>Saxon Orrik [4]

>Assault Kommandos (max) [16]
> - Assault Kommando Flame Thrower (3) [6]

>Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15]
> - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [4]

>Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
> - Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]

I threw this together a month ago for a drunk beer and pretzels match. My thought when creating this was "yo, what happens if I play fluff Strakhov and all the Shieldwall things?"

Turns out the answer is "something radical"

But user, those are the lists they've been internally playtesting with, they MUST be good.

so are we ignoring the fact the Druids of Orboros + UA in the new theme list are now Elemental Protected sac pawns with sacred ward?

Play Amon and trade your 7pt Dervishes and 10pt Crusaders into their 15+ pt beasts or play Reclaimer/Severius and shoot them before they charge you.

So like 2 years ago I bought the Convergence All In One Army Box. I checked and its different than the current one. the one I had came with Father Lucant.

What do I still need to play? I havent fully assembled or painted or really played much but I want to finish assembling what I have and finally learn the game. Do I need more models? What do you suggest to learn Convergence.

(I know Convergence is harder and less traditional, but I wanted them because I see their limited models as a bonus and I like the aesthetics a lot more)

Get 2 TEPs and lots and lots of servitors.

That seems excessive. Are they busted?

TEPs are pretty fucking good right now. Servitors are mostly there as speed bumps, meat shields (metal shields?), and for the occasional repair.

You can't sac pawn to druids. They'll still die to blast and dedicated gunlines. Even tho they're our anti gunline stuff

How so?

If I were to build up form a Ret battle box, what are some key pieces I should look for?
I hear arcanists are a solid support piece.

>arcanists are a solid support piece
Try mandatory. Every wrench elf you take is a point of focus your caster gets to keep for themselves, or +2 STR to a melee jack when you launch a charge.

I see. Should I be focusing on the unit of wrench elves or the solo version?

Is he holding a shell or a coffee mug?

solo version.

Something like this then?

Retribution Army - 25 / 25 points
[Theme] Forges of War

(Helynna 1) Magister Helynna [+30]
- Chimera [8]
- Gorgon [9]
- Griffon [8]
- Griffon [8]
- Griffon [8]
- Manticore [14]
Arcanist Mechanik [0(2)]
Arcanist Mechanik [0(2)]

Sometimes trying to discuss warmachine with the locals gives me brain damage.

Local potato person getting excited over the new circle theme.

>Do they purposely build those insider "example" lists badly?

Pagani was THE Circle player back in Mk2, and he was also the most vocal about convincing people that Ghost Fleet was really good back when they first released it. I'm pretty skeptical about Circle blackclad units myself, but I also don't have a reason to distrust Pagani on this.

>Implying the druid mist riders impact attacks are worth anything (mat5 pow10)

He didn't really rave about the impact attacks, and they're POW 12. So while you're not likely to hit most of the time, you'll still kill most warrior models in the game. Impact attacks can also trigger Battle Wizard, giving you two chances at getting a spell off.

>He even took the 3 point solos for free and not the 4 point solos.

He takes the 3 point solos for free because the 4 point solos are required to hit the 3rd 20 point free solo.

Maybe stop being a cunt?

Shitter detected

Pagani also thought Mk2 Druids were garbage for a long time, his track record isn't completely perfect.

So is the "one merc/minion card per list" theme rule official now, or does that theme just have a specific override for now?

Ok I've got some answers from everyone about PoM. So I have few more things to ask.

So I like Durant and he does support his battlegroup. However I 'm tempted to go with Severius and building a gunline.
So questions is how good are:
-sunbursts
-delivereres
-Is using mercs like cutthroats with attendant worth it?

Asphyxious the Hellbringer.

I'm thinking I should just ball up the whole crew around him and have him personally bash his stats against infantry and enemies. When the enemy positions for the assassination run and then pop feat.

Wait, what's the problem?

Seems like it's going to be for specific themes.

The big theme benefit is blackclads (including warlock) get sac pawn to minion models.

Potato guy wants to basically waste this by wasting the 1 minion unit choice he's allowed to take in the theme by using it on swamp gobbers. Not only is that a 2 man unit, it's a 2 man unit that makes a cloud.

Because you really need another cloud when the list already generates 14 cloud effects from other models.

That theme is limited to 1 minion solo and 1 unit. Naturally using the one unit choice on swamp gobbers is something a handicapped person would do.

Seems like you are being a dick about it. You draw out over 3 posts what could have been resolved in 1.

Not sure about the handicapped thing. The game is really complicated. Maybe physically handicapped but if that's what you are trying to say then your analogy makes no sense.

2 posts. And that level of retardation has to figure it out for themselves, you can't tell them they just do it anyway.

Warmachine is actually pretty straight forward the only thing remotely more difficult than your average table top game is calculating % with the additive d6 system.

Infinity is a complex game, not warmachine.

>I can't tell people how to build their army

And this is a problem because...?

SHITTER DETECTED!

>Warmachine is actually pretty straight forward

Every game I have played of Warmachine has been won/lost on order of activation.

Don't get me started about line of sight and making sure you have your guys covered from enemy fire while at the same time not blocking each other from engaging.

>I'm going to meme instead of admit I'm an asshole

Most assholes know they're assholes and don't care.

Shitters though, they don't usually know they're shit but they get really defensive about it when you tell them.

That's... really simple stuff.

>I'm still not going to admit I'm an asshole

Shitters need to be exiled.

Isn't there a barge they used to cram all the menites on in Cygnar before they shipped them off to exile/totally not gas chambers?

>you just gotta make sure to activate all your units in the exact order to maximize their threat ranges while avoiding enemy threat ranges while also making sure that you weave any spellcasters in at the best point to cast their vital spells on vital units while also making sure that you keep in mind your opponent's turn and the spells/units that they have in their back pocket, also you are remembering their feat, right? do you know their optimal play that they are going to try to do? some of those moves increase the range of their units so make sure that you account that as well etc. etc. etc.

Very few units in this game stay exactly as their card says. This is an extremely complicated thing to learn.

>I refuse to admit I'm an asshole

Yeah, this stuff isn't any more difficult than guild ball or fantasy flight buddy, I'm not sure how to break this to you.

Unless your definition of really complicated is it's harder than warhammer, it's really not.

If that is your definition of really complicated though, shit man, you should try some other games out.

>this stuff isn't any more difficult than these other difficult games

Wait, your ability to use the english language is complete garbage. Are you saying that Warmachine is easier than Warhammer? Like, Warhammer Fantasy?

Shouldn't you guys be working on those regulation painting schemes?

Im not even the guy you were originally arguing with all I know is that the only way to fix a shitter is to force them into self exile by playing them with shit that actually works

Obviously they're implying that warmachine is only hard in the sense that it's harder than warhammer.

Your understanding of the English language is in fact garbage, just so you know.

>I'm a different asshole and I don't want to admit I'm an asshole

Ill admit Im an asshole but that doesnt make me wrong.

>Warmachine isn't hard! Just ignore all the bullshit that you need to account for each turn and how many different ways all that bullshit can change by an 1" of movement one way or another or how different spells on different targets in a specific order can blow open the entire match

Hey you did it!

That's a good doggie.

Blindly believing him is also bad, of course, but his layout of the list has merit.

I mean, it's a huge recursion engine that has a lot of ranged RFP, blast damage, and board control. And spells have a weird niche in that most anti-spell tech is focused on preventing a warnoun from using them.

Ish in low point games try and get a unit of Dawnguard Sentinels. They are amazing infantry and Helena's feat pushes their armor to insane levels.

Planning something like this for next 50 pts tournament

Protectorate Army - 50 / 50 points
[Theme] The Creator's Might

(Reznik 1) High Executioner Servath Reznik [+28]
- Crusader [10]
- Guardian [15]
- Reckoner [16]
- Redeemer [11]
- Templar [15]
- Hierophant [0(3)]
Vassal of Menoth [0(3)]
Vassal of Menoth [3]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]

Thoughts?

If you really do find warmachine hard maybe you should try warhammer, sounds more your speed.

>I'm not going to admit that the game is complicated

>not going to admit he's just a shitter in need of exile

>Blindly believing him is also bad, of course, but his layout of the list has merit.
You shouldn't blindly believe anybody, regardless of their competitive record. Thinking about things critically and (especially) testing them yourself is worth more than even the highest pedigree of internet wisdom. That said, it's definitely worth at least listening to Pagani. He's in kindof a unique position, being an actually-good player who's looking at the game from the inside out. That alone makes his insights valuable.

>Pagani also thought Mk2 Druids were garbage for a long time, his track record isn't completely perfect.
Well, to clarify, his thing with druids was that they were an excellent-but-expensive unit that acted as a bit of a crutch for players. He never said that they were garbage, just that there was a big opportunity cost there, and resources that might be more valuable elsewhere. I didn't agree with him at the time, but seeing how many events he won without druids in his lists, he may have had a point.

See ya later, fuckers.

Gonna go buy myself a Colossal today.

But which one user

I prefer the swamp gobbo cloud to the druid cloud wall.

So generally when I use Invictors they're paired up with a second unit but I do think they can do work as your only unit.

Basically the goal is going to be to get as many rounds of shooting out of them as possible since that is what they're best at before you close to me. They're decent offensively in melee but they don't have the ARM or DEF to eat a charge from anything with double-digit P+S. I like to use the minifeat the first time I can get a majority of the unit in range of something worth killing since after that RNG10 is probably enough and you're going to start losing models.

I like them a lot with Elara because she fixes their major problem while buffing their strengths. Boundless Charge gets their SPD up and gives them Pathfinder which can be big both on early turns for some weird long-range Assaults to pick off problem solos and on Feat turn to really put in some hurt. Marked for Death not only bumps them up to RAT8 but also gives them an out for Stealth which negates the main advantage Riflemen have as a pure shooting unit. Scything Touch can make mass Assaults against hard targets extremely effective, bumping the guns to 14 and the melee to 13 means each model is dealing an average of 8 to an ARM 18 target, which is a similar damage output to Sentinals on the charge. Obviously they don't have the reach to pile in as effectively but models that don't make it to melee eith that target can still shoot their Assault shot or just charge something else.

Basically their main advantage is flexibility. There is rarely a situation where they can't do anything. Against other baseline shooting units that outrange them ARM 17 +buffs can keep them relatively safe and few units break RNG 14 so you get at least one turn matching them. They can Snipe out important models with high-RAT rerollable CRAs and aren't afraid to get in to melee and hold positions once lines meet. As long as you learn to play around their main weaknesses (SPD and RNG) they can be very effective. Even with a caster like Rahn they can participate in assassinations with long-range CRA lasers but given Rahns ability to mitigate DEF Stormfall are generally a better choice.

I'm not sure that Vyros2 wants two units of troops. I tried it once about a year ago after the MkIII release and it can work thanks to Decel and Veteran Leader but Synergy is still just so damn good, even capped at 3, and Decel works on Jacks now. With SR17 shaping up to be much friendlier to troops I think V2 has a place for one unit for zones and considering the melee power of his Battlegroup Invictors might be the way to go. 11 RAT7 Guns could definitely be a thing.

Yeah, you're just an asshole. I feel kinda bad for your community

>textuploader; com / da46m

> See new textuploader link
> Get excited
> Still no Grymkin book or NQ 72
> Get sad

The OP posted here is pretty ancient. Check the archive for the actual previous /wmg/ to find your books. When this thread dies, I'll start a new /wmg/ with the proper OP.

Ded. So very ded