AD&D Thread

2nd Editions splatbooks, the endless stream of X's Handbook, gave me untold hours of fun. Just reading through them was a blast. Even the Elves Handbook. Especially the Elves Handbook.

>they are plagued with fetishists and people who want to make their character awesome through their racial traits and base stats, rather than through roleplaying and development.
Because kids these days have no concept of actual role playing, and are simply rollplaying, ie min/max tards.
Add a huge dose of SJW idiocy that just serves their own political autism, and you get the current crop of gamers.
I honestly don't give a frogs fat ass about politics, race, religion or lack thereof... none of that shit matters. Your character isn't fucking super special, this isnt the place to make political statements and god fucking dammit you can't play some weeb faggotry gnoll hooker rogue wizard bard cleric commoner engineer because you wrote some stupid backstory!

It's better now that you can .... 'acquire' any of them from cheap to free. When I was a wee lad of 13, and looked at the upcoming releases of the next year's goods, I knew I'd never afford it all, so it limited their use.
Now that I'm older, I may say I don't use many of them, but I have them all in print.

I'm actually part way through rewriting these to am extent... it's mainly going to be placing them in weapon groups so there's no bitching about what weapons are in what broad weapon proficiency slots.
For example, why is using or being specialized in say the gladius any different from the short sword?

>Because kids these days have no concept of actual role playing, and are simply rollplaying, ie min/max tards.

I find that the hardcore video gamers are particularly bad at this. We had a couple in our group at one point and one of them wanted his elf thief to get all the good items so he could pump out his min-maxed backstabs. As soon as combat stopped he fucked off to text people on his phone.

If you have a finished product be sure to post it - that's one of the things that I have always wanted to update for my own campaigns. I am currently trying to explain to my DM that a longsword and a bastard sword are so close that it's asinine for him to require me to specialize both separately.

That's pretty sweet, user. I've thought about trying to collect all the 2nd Ed books for nostalgia purposes. I think it'd be a neat shelf or two.

I was introduced to 2e by a pretty bad group, but it still sparked my love of 2e. I've been slowly accumulating a lot of books, because it's more fun with physical copies.

I have all sorts of shit that's *almost* finished, once it's laid out I'll post all my shit:
>wizard spell compendium
>priests spell compendium
>weapon and non-weapon proficiencies
>encyclopedia of the flanaess
>encyclopedia of the domain of greyhawk
>city map of greyhawk
>weapons lists (wjat I mentioned)
>equipment list

It's pretty, that's for sure. I don't have pics of my shit here on my phone, but it's neat.
Funny shit is, after doing shit a certain way for 20+ years before I had say 'x splatbook' i go and ebay that fucker and what we houseruled makes more sense... at least to us.
Still really makes my nostalgia/fulfilled childhood wishes boner so ragingly huge

Awesome. Keep livin' the dream, user.

Heh, I am user, I am.
I even got my wife into it and she loves it.
I forgot to mention that the spell compendium ones are really just the canon spells from the core hardbacks... it's all we ever really needed in 30 years of playing. I changed a few wizard spells slightly to make them more streamlimed. The biggest difference is that for the time of magic priest spheres of war, combat etc that they added later... well most of the spells for the war sphere had absolutely no game application beyond the BattleSystem rules the release of them coincided with. I wrote in game usage for all of them beyond the BattleSystem rules so taking them is feasible with regular adventuring.
Thought I'd mention it before I posted those two later when I get home as they are the most 'complete'

SPELLJAMMER4LYFE

Seriously though, if I had to choose one campaign setting that I had to stick with for the rest of time, it'll be Spelljammer. Unique take on fantasy Age of Sail? Nothing like it.

I respect the shit out of spelljammer, I just could never get into it.
>age of sail
Definitely unique version of it. I just happen to enjoy the galleons on the ocean variety (minus all the pirates of the careibean stuff, tho the movies are entertaining)

Tome of Magic is goat 2e book. Wild Mage from that book was a meme class done right.

2e fluff is really good. I hate the racial restrictions.

Tell me Veeky Forums, why were racial restrictions a thing?

How does everyone feel about the 2nd edition way of balancing races?

Instead of giving demi-humans both positive and negative traits, they mostly get only positive traits (magic failure for dwarves is an exception to this). Instead, balance is introduced by giving humans unlimited leveling potential, while demihumans have significant leveling constraints after level 10.

This means that for the first 10 levels, demi-humans are generally superior to humans (infravision is such a huge advantage), but then suddenly the stop improving and humans become godly while demi-humans stop advancing.

I feel like I would prefer a system where demi-humans have more disadvantages to balance out their many positives.

>Tell me Veeky Forums, why were racial restrictions a thing?

To create a human centric game world with strong archetypal characters, rather than the bizarre race/class madlibs parties you see in modern D&D.
It works pretty well, though I think the best iterations of race-as-class are those which really put some thought into them, whereas most of the TSR racial classes feel about half done.

PDF related. It's way better than just having "dwarf cleric" be an option - it makes the dwarves feel less like short humans with a plus to CON, which is what race/class separation ends up doing.

I have a good smattering of AD&D and I want to run it one day. I'm learning the rules first though. In the meantime what are the strengths of AD&D that I should play to in order to ensure success?

I'd say the flexibility of the material. There are a lot of disparate rules (proficiencies, alternate progressions, different methods of conducting combat) which makes for a lot to know, but many are optional and it's expected you'll bolt on what you need. Hell, you can't even do kitchen sink since a lot of the rules are mutually incompatible.

It gives you a lot of tools to subtly alter the game, though like most older crunchy RPGs a lot wasn't playtested so you may end up doing some ad-hoc counterbalance.

>AD&D
>Not playtested to hell and back

OD&D in particular was probably the most heavily playtested RPG ever published. TSR was fanatical about playtesting, up until the late 80s.

i was referring to the 2E splats; i suppose i shouldn't have assumed second edition. 1985 is I believe when the shift started

I've been made to play some AD&D lately and even though the character creation process is tedious, I actually realy like the system once everyone at the table is on the same page. Wish the first game lasted longer, the Dustman Bard was super fun to play, I completely felt like I had more options than in 5e at similar level, while delving nowhere near weeaboo fightin magic. Combat actions like charge and parry being raw viable compared to manuvers in 3.PF does so much.

It also makes me appriciate how badly the Infinity Engine games presented the system.

>it's a rerollfest because the game constantly puts you up against CRs vastly past what you are capable of and you spend most of the game at level 1 geting shit for EXP
>the games literally pick out everything in the monster manual that has a save or die so that they can use it
>nonweapon proficiencies are not even a thing
>kits are all the worst ones
>that is not how spheres work priests are busted wtf
>THAT IS NOT WHAT CHARM PERSON FUCKING DOES

1e AD&D is still my favorite system

>dad played AD&D back in the day
>hasn't played in 20 years
>he wants to try out 5e for a session with my group
>help him make character
>he has a hard time adjusting, says character creation now is way more complex than back in the day
>he reminisces about how easy and straightforward the old days were
>curious to see how he reacts to 5e in a couple days

Were old school ways truly the right way to do DnD? Has 5e been lying to me all along?

...

>Has 5e been lying to me all along?
Yes

>never ever ever use any of the forgotten realms setting

Not that user, but why play FR when you can enjoy all the other great 2e settings: Ravenloft, Planescape, Spelljammer, Dragonlance, etc, etc

Is it true that both editions of AD&D are mostly compatible?

Honestly, the core of all old school D&D is the same, and so most of the material in pre-3e D&D is roughly compatible. But yes, base-level 2e is mostly just 1e with a bit of housecleaning and with some of the rules in the supplements rolled up into the core.

This: You can, with very little effort, have a party made up of characters from OD&D, Basic, AD&D 1e, and AD&D 2e play modules from any or all of the above.

> mfw I have B/X, Rules Cyclopedia, and AD&D 1e and 2e
> mfw you tell me I don't have to choose one or come up with a strategy to run them all one at a time

There's like a one point AC difference between OD&D/Basic and AD&D, but that's so small that nobody even noticed that the AD&D Monster Manual still has the OD&D AC base of 9 instead of 10. The big difference is hit die sizes went up in AD&D, so those characters will have an extra HP per level on average, so you'd have to decide what you want to do about that.

Hey, here's another fun thing, this is a list of all the crazy Basic D&D classes that were available over the years:
pandius.com/becmicls.html

>The big difference is hit die sizes went up in AD&D, so those characters will have an extra HP per level on average, so you'd have to decide what you want to do about that.
This. Going from Basic to AD&D, every class but magic-user got bumped up a die size (m-u stay at d4, thieves go from d4 to d6, clerics go from d6 to d8, fighters go from d8 to d10). Going from AD&D to Basic, just shrink every class's hit dice by one size, but don't let any class go below d4.

That's just a bit of math though. Attributes give you somewhat different modifiers for the same scores, but then the systems expect you to use different dice generation methods. It's probably easiest if you use one system as your base, and generate all PC stats according to its attribute system.* You can probably just leave NPC stats and modifiers and such (from, say, an adventure module you might be using) the way they are.

Another big question is what to do about race-as-class and multiclassing. There, the easiest thing is to just drop one, but technically, there's nothing preventing you from using them side-by-side. I highly recommend checking out Labyrinth Lord's Advanced Edition Companion (available for free online), which is an attempt to meld Basic's more streamlined (less junky) system with AD&D's expanded choices when it comes to classes, spells, weapons and so forth. It's valuable because it effectively provides a bridge / compromise point between the two systems. It's also designed to be compatible with the Labyrinth Lord core rules, which is retroclone of B/X that sticks very close to the original. So it lets you freely mix Basic characters and AD&D characters.

*You may need to modify or dispense with class attribute requirements to make it possible to get into them, though those are kind of bullshit anyway.

>Ravenloft
Incredibly underrated setting

Why did AD&D have so many cool, original settings? Why aren't there more today?

TSR under Lorraine Williams believed that settings and their related material were the key to TSR's continued survival. So they cranked out a bunch of gorgeous box sets and things for these settings for a while before they were eaten by WotC. TSR assumed the box sets would lose money but lure people in who would then buy splatbooks and adventures and stuff to go with them. It turns out that while they helped, they weren't enough.

Since then WotC and pals have discovered you don't need the big flashy box set, so those have become a thing of the past.

>Start grad school
>Join campus gaming club
>First meeting of the semester
>Try to recruit players for a D&D game
>"Uh, bro? What edition are we playing?"
>AD&D 2e, obviously
>"Uh, bro? Isn't it on 5th edition now? Wouldn't 2nd edition be, like, a downgrade? Like using an iPod instead of an iPod Touch?"

If only my old gaming pals hadn't had kids, then I wouldn't have to deal with this shit.

Why didn't you explain the differences to them?

I feel your pain. It can be hard to find a group of like-minded grogs these days.

I've seen fetishists, and I've seen min/maxers, but fetishist min/maxers? What do they do, wield a dildo and roll called shots to sodomize someone with it?

The smithing technology used to make the gladius and the pugio was not as advanced as the technology used to make a Florentine shortsword. In a real-life duel with all other things being equal, the more advanced sword would come out on top because it is lighter, stronger, and can hold a better edge.

>Skullport is plagued by a mysterious predator the likes of which its residents have never been seen before. Delvers in Undermountain have reported seeing a reddish mist prowling the chambers and corridors nearest Skullport. The most recent sighting occurred in the first ride of the month and was reported by Alastard Boarshund (LG male human Pa16 of Torm) while he and his adventuring party were exploring north of the Port of Shadow. He and his wife, Shaella the Dove (LG female human Pa15 of Sune), were resting from a recent encounter with a dracolisk.
Three of their party members had been left petrified by the dracolisk's gaze, and the party's thief, Qarwill the Stoat (N male shield dwarf F2/T3), had disappeared into a concealed pit.
As the paladins rested against the wall of the chamber, a red mist drifted noiselessly over Shaella's dozing form.
She awoke screaming, startling her fatigued mate. He watched helplessly as she was consumed entirely. When the mist lifted, naught remained behind to mark her passing save her polished skull.
It rose up, turned toward the terrified paladin, and said: Farewell my love, a greater destiny now guides me. I beg you not to pursue
this. Since this unfortunate event, the fallen paladin has frequented every tavern in Skullport, squandering his remaining wealth on alcohol and lamenting the loss of his beloved.

You have 10 seconds to make a quest about this.
What the fuck was the scummy rogue doing meanwhile, what was the red mist that ate the wife, how to redeem the paladin.

Hey, someone invented FATAL. You look at those big ass tables and tell me what kind of gamer is responsible, if not super-autism powered number-crunching fetish freaks.

FATAL is a running joke. Is that what these players are? Someone describe such a person to me believably in the next hour if they exist.

The scummy rogue went into a secret door to go find the dracolich's phylactery. He died to a trap, so it's going to rise again soon.

The red mist a vampire who figured out a unique use of his gaseous cloud form and drinks the mist from open wounds

The Paladin can be redeemed with an act of heroic justice. I'm not sure why he Fell to begin with. Is his god just an asshole?

The vampire drinks the blood from open wounds, scouring the flesh clean.

Also, the Vampire is clearly in league with the Dracolich. Maybe the Dracolich taught him this secret in exchange for his aid, and when the Dracolich died, he was told to go hunt down the party while the Lich revived. It used some illusion spell to fuck with the paladin and break him rather than submit itself to potentially being discovered as undead.

Am I the only middle-aged guy (38 years old) who played and enjoyed AD&D back in the day, but think to even try it out nowadays is pure cancer?

Am I the only one who doesn't reminisce or is beholden to nostalgia like that?

I'm sure you're not the only person making claims like that, but I'm sure that other people aren't doing it just for nostalgia. People like what they like, man, no reason to call it "cancer" because it's different. It's not like it's fucking FATAL or another genuinely creepy and gross system, it's just D&D.

Fair enough. I only really vent such an opinion here on an anonymous Chinese cartoon bulletin board. Otherwise it's just a polite "no thank you" on the RARE occasion such a game is offered.

And that's perfectly reasonable, and you should not feel bad for your preferences at all.

I started playing with 2e, and while I actually have fonder memories of 3e and 3.5, as I got older I got really interested in the sheer breadth of content for the older editions. Then I got into the OSR scene and started dicking around with Basic and 1e and shit and was pleased by how expansive some of this shit is and how simple the math tends to be and how much less it rewards system mastery. So that's why I do it; it's not nostalgia or reminiscence, just a fascination with GM-side ease and the sheer amount of toys available to me. I imagine a lot of people have similar feelings.

bump

>implying this isn't the best edition

Well, for Ravenloft at least, part of the fun was the fear of death. Sure, the game was deep with atmosphere and had some neat mechanics and great suggestions for DMs who wanted to build suspense and mistrust among players. But I don't know how you'd do that if everyone has sixty HD, thirty-four forms of insta-gibs, and all kinds of other anime'esq mechanics and flair.

It works in part because everything and everyone is so limited. A level 20 character is insanely powerful, as is a 20 CR creature. There are things you can do with a high powered setting and high powered PCs, but when powercreep becomes the expectation and the norm then you do lose options.

Still working on it. Real life gets in the way of shit... having a wife's cool tho
Also
I have some stuff to do with these before I post em.
What they really need is art, (and a bit of autism-inspired editing) and frankly I don't have time to get it all and fit it in. That and I'm not spending money for it so..... yeah.