It's a pretty good system. Come at me

>simulationism
Not even once. Even then, initiative could be decided by a number of factors: perception, quickness, the ability to predict the actions of others. How does one decide "realistically"? You don't.

Well there is a soft confirmation that they are updating the core rules. At gencon they had a product poster that showed a new core rulebook, fantasy companion, and horror companion.

>What is the edge designed for Quick people?

Oh, didn't know that!

I don't expect them to change much though. I think there wasn't even a version of the core rulebook that had the errata about shaken.

Come on. This board would be so much better if people just learned not to feed the trolls. If they wanted to have a real discussion with you about mechanics, they would be far less rude about their criticisms.

Yeah, I'm not expecting a big change either, but it's nice to know they're still updating. The books look in line with the style of the recent super and sci fi companions, which I like, as the other two companions don't currently look fantastic from a design standpoint. Not bad, but I just have a few nitpicky things.

>>a crippled retard with poor perception, quickness, and the ability to predict the actions of others should have the same chance of going first as someone with peak human physical and mental attributes that didn't take a specific single ability
>a healthy character requires a highly specific ability to not have the same chance of acting before a gibbering quadriplegic
Savage World cucks are so silly lol

I haven't played it, but it looks pretty cool. I think it could stand to be streamlined a bit. The core of the game is pretty simple, but it's got a decent bit of detail stacked on top of that, some of which I feel isn't necessary. But then I tend to think that most games are more convoluted than they need to be.

Hi, Virt.

Played my first game yesterday. Had a blast. Really enjoy the trappings as they gave so much flavor to our alchemists powers. He had an obscure potion that was flavored as darkness in a bottle. The rogue-y character carried it on him and uncorked it when he needed some portable dark.

Our party was investigating some witches casting rituals using the rules from the horror companion. We ultimately fucked with them and caused the casting to fail, causing a dark entity to come through by luck of the cards. We high tailed it out of there, realizing we just created our big bad.

>a crippled retard with poor perception, quickness, and the ability to predict the actions of others should have the same chance of going first as someone with peak human physical and mental attributes that didn't take a specific single ability

Yes, a crippled retard with poor perception, quickness, and the ability to predict the actions of others should have the same chance as anyone else to spend their turn drooling and flapping their arms, since from the sound of things that's about all they'll be doing, anyway.

You didn't really think this through, did you?

I know there is a troll in this thread discussing initiative, but for the sake of actual rules discussion, there is an alternate rule to use an agility roll for initiative, with each success or raise granting a new card, giving you the option of taking the best. Clint said it was for people who wanted differences in reaction speed, and I think it works well.

Hey now, I like both GURPS and SW. Just for different styles.

They do really feel so similar in different ways, like two sides of a single coin. But the differences make them what they are. I like both and play both. Savage Worlds has swingy dice rolls, GURPS rolls are much more solid. Not a criticism, but sometimes I want one over the other.

I'm not a big fan of how hindrances are implemented and I feel the cards make it unwieldy, but I do like the game.

Waiting for that ass with his tired copypasta in 5.4.3.2.1........

I've GM'd enough different genre's and setting rules in SW to know what the system feels like and I really enjoy it, but never tried GURPS. How would you compare the GM'ing experience in GURPS to running Savage Worlds?

>Come at me.
I mean, I agree with you, so I suppose I could come give you a high-five or something?

It's a great system, user. Nice to see more people here that enjoy it.

>What are edges
The only attributes that make sense for initiative are agility and smarts, the two attributes that are already over filled with shit.

Anger is the only real way to talk about something with enough passion to avoid getting pushed off the board sadly. The reason why edition wars are so popular and all that.

I have to disagree, with how slow Veeky Forums is.

I honestly think the issue is people don't have enough questions about how Savage Worlds works because it's so straight, and we don't ever bother with story-times or anything.

Which I guess I could fix.

Question: how would you run a game where each player controls 5-7 characters?

As for storytime, I'm currently running a game where each player controls 5-7 characters. If anyone cares.

Storytime it. Are they all wildcards or some extras mixed in?

So, something that always bothered me about Savage Worlds is how you only get 2 advances per rank that do anything interesting, less if you are a Spellcaster.

What are the most useless Edges? I'm thinking that every rank each character gets an Edge from that list for free as long as they meet the requirements.
Things like Beast Bond, Combat Reflexes, Connections, Jack-Of-All-Trades, Linguist.

You can change it up, add things like Martial Artist so you can have a more Wuxa game, add the various Professional edges to promote specialization, etc.

I've run a game with 13-16 characters, if that's any help?

>So, something that always bothered me about Savage Worlds is how you only get 2 advances per rank that do anything interesting, less if you are a Spellcaster.
What is an "interesting" Edge for you?

I really would not suggest playing Savage Worlds.
Savage Worlds is a shitty system that tries too hard to reinvent the wheel. The exploding die and raise mechanics make any form of encounter balance/planning impossible. A rank 1 novice can one-shot a dragon with lucky die rolls using his fist. The system boasts that bennies are used for "cool things" like players changing narrative or pulling off impossible stunts, but players just hoard them for use as extra hit points. The chase system (any iteration of it) is an absolute shit storm of retardation. The 3-wound limit is just plain bad game design. The community is full of sad 40-something-year-old zealots who foam at the mouth at any notion of house ruling the assy mechanics. Shotguns are utterly broken and despite having the same average damage as a rifle, end up dealing twice as much because of exploding dice. The entire game works on a fucktarded tabletop scale so you either have to use miniatures for EVERY combat or have fun doing extra math every time you want to figure out range penalties. It's like the worst parts of FATE and GURPS put together, with none of the upsides. Don't play it. Leave it in the trash where it belongs.

That sounds absolutely fucking stupid. Why would you each run 5 to 7 characters?

I suppose same here. I enjoy using savage worlds for genre mismashing. Fantasy supers is my favorite.

I still think the main issue is that most of these threads in the immediate past that most discussion has been about telling that one guy (you know who) that he's wrong and all of his issues can be fixed with moments of thought already written out in various companions.

As for your question I would absolutely not under any circumstances make them wildcards. Too much book keeping.

What do you all think about the first strike/spear combo being so strong?

Edges that provide new or lateral options.
Danger Sense is interesting in that it gives you a new roll that you did not have access to before, as well as telling your GM that you want to be ambushed so you can make that roll.
The professional edges are interesting in that they help you define your character, guiding how you will play them.
Improvisational Fighter is interesting because it allows you to use random objects as weapons consistently.
McGyver allows you do entirely random junk, but it will always add to your ability to do things, without making you 'stronger'.

>I'm not a big fan of how hindrances are implemented
Exactly. Half the hindrances aren't even hindrances. Shit like "cautious" or "heroic" aren't even drawbacks. They are only drawback if the GM tskes away control of your character to make him act retardedly cautious. Why do games constantly try to incentivize roleplaying with mehandicap rewards? You should be role-playing because you want to, not because it gives you extra skill points. Fucking retards who made savage worlds probably have to use the hindrances to convince themselves to role play, fucking fat wargamer pieces of shit.

Are you playing X-COM or something? Jesus.

>The core of the game is pretty simple, but it's got a decent bit of detail stacked on top of that, some of which I feel isn't necessary.
Exactly. They can't even get the details right. Like a Garand dealing less damage than an ak47 despite using a MORE powerful cartridge. Same with fucking G3. Ridiculous. They put in so many gun rules then fall for gun memes like AK47 dealing SO MUCH DAMAGE OMG that they probably learned from counterstrike or call of duty. What a load of horse shit.

They each get two wild cards and five mooks. With five players, that's 35 characters crammed into on GMPC U-Boat. The setting is a science fantasy homebrew we cooked up together using Microscope and Kingdom. Bronze Age and Neolithic inspired societies but with pulpy science fiction tech. Think phalanxes of diesel powered, 5 meter tall, mecha, sprawling metropolis that look like Hugh Ferriss teamed up with Phidias or Imhotep, and lots of Greek myth style heroism. All wrapped up in a giant halo world that's day-night cycle is determined by it's orbit around it's host planet, which itself is on a very eccentric orbit. Let me review my notes and I'll draft up a storytime.

I would say we're running it very similar to how XCOM flows, they're playing smugglers and pirates on a treasure hunt and spend of lot of time tacticooling around ruins and ports.

Tell us how you handle it user. I'm just trying to get conversation going. I just made a point to ask each of them to not create 7 combat characters, so that fights don't get overwhelming. It helps that SW is fast.

Do I still have to pay for the pasta if it's so fucking late?

>genre mismashing
Which is what we absolutely love it for.

>What do you all think about the first strike/spear combo being so strong?
I think it's destroying anything I throw at my players. One of the wild cards, the Captain of the U-Boat, is this fuck-huge, gnarled, old lizardman who likes to main hand an Orichalcum halberd and he just wrecks shit

It's got some serious scaling issues. My personal favorites include how you can become the best pilot ever by taking one special talent thing, but fuck help you if you want to do the same thing with science. You have to master science and magic before you can do such a feat, for some reason.

Also, your backstory is pointless due to the dice mechanics, be prepared for your medic with a backstory of years of training in the special forces to be outperformed by johnny mc-schmuck with his exploding dice.
If you can look past the nonsensical dice mechanics and poor scaling it's not the worst game you could play.

>I think it's destroying anything I throw at my players. One of the wild cards, the Captain of the U-Boat, is this fuck-huge, gnarled, old lizardman who likes to main hand an Orichalcum halberd and he just wrecks shit

Ok tone it back a LITTLE

>medic with a backstory not befitting a 0xp character
If you have healer and a d4-2 is consistently out shining you I'd call into question the gm's interpretation of unskilled checks (page 63
>The GM may decide that
a character has no chance at a particular skill if he has no
training in it—such as performing surgery or flying a plane.)

Or it is super statistical improbability.

Also backstory is literally the defining quality of common knowledge checks, which again are entirely up to the gm to not fuck up

I honestly want to try and throw some heavy armored mecha, tanks, or monsters his way, since he doesn't have any way to penetrate that kind of defense alone, but his teamwork edges combined with how loyally even the other wild cards stay by him have made it impossible. Maybe I'll punish them for grouping together with explosives. Grenades, CAS, artillery. Something.

I'm honestly really happy with how tactically they've learned to play.

A d8 with a skill is supposed to be more skilled than a d4, but thanks to exploding dice happening for the d4 so much more often, it often isn't. That's what I meant, apologies for not being clearer.

Except that's literally not how probability works you moron.

Step 1.
anydice.com/

Step 2.
Enter in
output [highest of [explode d8] and [explode d6]]
output [highest of [explode d4] and [explode d6]]

Step 3)Be wrong.
Step 4)Realize that wound penalties further skew things towards someone specked out to heal wounds that pretty bluntly states that a gm can make exclusive.

It's pasta user, just ignore him.

Due to the 25% chance for the d4 to explode, it will occur more often than the 12.5 % chance on the d4, before factoring in the d6 "fuck it" die.
This means that someone who has specialized up to a d8 has a disadvantage over someone who has just put in a d4, as the one with the d4 has a 50% chance to succeed on the d6 (4+) and 25% chance to succeed with an explosion on the d4. This is compared to the 62% chance on the d8 and 12.5% chance to explode. This means that spending all that extra effort raising the skill to a d8 would have been better spent getting more d4's.
So that's what I mean about the probabilities, am I making a mistake somewhere?

10 versions in 12 years go team.
Maybe the new version will be better

On our first Savage Worlds session we decided to climb down a steep mountainside. The two characters with high Strength and who had actually invested in the Climb skill ate shit, while the two who had poor Strength and untrained in Climb exploded our d4s enough to climb down no problem. Similar shit happens in combat too. The system is overly random and you can tell that Wild Dice and Bennies were put in to patch things over so you don't get fucked over by the randomness as often.

Strength determines climb speed, hence a lower strength means more checks and more chance of failure.

>I honestly think the issue is people don't have enough questions about how Savage Worlds works because it's so straight,

I have a question. The powers system is described as being for pulpy street heroes, and it dies a great job at that, working well as a complement to martial characters or in fantasy settings as fragile artillery. But I want some high fantasy world-changing bullshit. I imagine it as a series of extended rituals, with casters dumping power points into it over a long period of time (or material components, blood sacrifices, etc) and facing increasing spellcasting rolls to keep it together until it's ready.

Is there a setting with rules for that already, or should I start making this shit up from scratch?

Most savage worlds die hards are indeed fat fucking gross bodies

>streamlining
yeah my biggest grief is character creation. i don't want to look at tables of weapons with 5 different stats, and oh btw you looked at weapons from the wrong era.

i don't like having to select a drawback by default. drawbacks are not fun, and neither is leafing through pages of content for something you don't want in the first place.

I don't think I've ever seen something like that. Seems like an awesome idea though, a game ender/changer that the caster/mad scientist/psion puts PP, edges, or cash into over time would be a great plot hook.

Are you thinking one time uses, or infinite uses once they fill it up, so long as something doesn't happen to drain the power?

If I recall, there's a bunch of alternative initiative systems, one of which was proposed by the devs themselves (I THINK).

savage worlds horror companion covers the extended time, the powerpoints (especially from blood) expencive ritually important items, and multiple people helping out.

(have you ever wanted to bolt someone from miles away for an absurd amount of damage?)

>i don't like having to select a drawback by default.
Entirely optional. All hindrances do is get you 4 hindrance points with which you can gain bonuses. You in no way shape or form have to pick them, but even the core book will call you boring for making a character without flaws.

Also its a generic system of course there is going to be more options than you'll use.

I'm not sure I completely follow you (but then I've been up a very long time, and it's a bit hard to focus right now), but let me just say that when you're looking at exploding dice, there are some circumstances where having a smaller die is better, but the cases are limited, and the difference is marginal. If you need to roll the maximum value on a die to succeed, you're better off with a die one size lower. This is because when dice explode, you're always adding at least one to the maximum value, making it impossible to get the maximum value, itself (you can't get a final result of 6 on a d6, because if you roll a 6, you're adding another roll to it).

There are a few ways you can address this. The simplest one is just not to give a shit (which is the Savage Worlds approach). It only matters when your target number is 6, 8, 10, or 12, and only when you're comparing two specific dice (for a target number of 8, the only dice whose probabilities are inverted are the d6 and d8 -- comparing any other combination of dice still works out fine). And it's worth mentioning that there are cases when a person with less skill is better in a certain situation than one with a bit more skill (a total noob, button-masher is often more dangerous in a fighting game against somebody who is decent than somebody who has slightly more than zero experience).

Another pretty easy way to address things is to say that a maximum roll on your second roll is zero. That means that if you roll a 4 on a d4, causing it to explode, then roll another 4, you get a final result of 4+0=4. This means you aren't skipping over the maximum die value, and thus it will always be better to have a larger die. It also means that dice can only explode once, which may or may not be something you like.

And finally, you can just have dice explode at a -1 value. So if you roll a six on a d6, it indicates 5 + another roll rather than 6 + another roll. If you successively roll 2 sixes and a four on a d6, that's 5 + 5 + 4 = 14. This effectively fixes the problem, and still lets dice to explode multiple times, but it's a bit clunky to have to subtract 1 from each exploding die like that (and it increases the chance of somebody making a math error).

Personally, I like the idea of making a maximum result on an exploding die indicate zero. I don't see why dice need to explode more than once, and it gets rid of any die order hinkiness. But ultimately, I think all of this is more a matter of perception than anything else. Overall, a d6 is clearly superior to a d4, and a d8 is clearly superior to a d6. People just fixate on the times when a smaller die happens to give somebody a better roll, and then blow the exploding effect out of proportion.

My group just doesn't use exploding dice for anything other than damage.

We also roll attribute, skill, and wild die and take the highest.

>My group just doesn't use exploding dice for anything other than damage.
"Just doesn't" or "doesn't just"?

The only time we use exploding dice is for damage.

Actually even with a d4 in a skill you have a 62% chance of succeeding. With a s8 it's like 75%. Barely an improvement. Can is horse shit. Mostly because of wild for and Bennies giving characters nonsensical plot armor.

I wish I were allowed to enjoy talking about my favorite system, but every time I'm audacious enough to try everyone has to show up to tell me why the system is bad. Apparently the way I have fun is incorrect and I constantly need to be reminded of this. Meanwhile, fucking paizofinder gets at minimum three separate threads a day where everyone gets to jerk off about how amazing it is.

It's almost like you're playing a system designed to emulate pulpy action movies? Diminishing returns is a problem for you, but players are still too good? Fucking make up your mind.

He's just looking for responses.

so are you.

I was thinking of one-time uses, specifically a druid blessing a whole region and a team of mages and clerics building combat golems, but permanent constructs would be damn neat too.

The use of power points as common currency and different power sources for different effects should give a lot of creative room.

Something like an arcane battery that speeds local PP regeneration but needs to be actively charged and maintained would make a cozy starting base for a party of spellcasters. They'd need apprentices around to recharge it, and mundane characters to fetch rare components, and at this point I'm describing ars magica and I'm not finding that to be a terribly bad thing.

This. I have a character who has d4s in tons of shit and just flips his fucking caltop to 4 like 90 percent of the time and gets like a 23. And somehow it's MY responsibility to make this fucks buy new d4s. No, fuck off savage worlds. Whoever's idea it was to put exploding d4s in an RPG needs to be put in a fucking gas chamber.

Hellforst resource miracles have you covered on the first point. I also believe that one of the hellfrost books also covered golem creation (with horror covering frankenstein's).
Yes stopping your friend from literally cheating is a personal problem.

Dumbest post in this whole thread.

Yeah what of it?

Not our fault you play with cheaters and losers user.

Now, shoo.

Sounds pretty rad.

>bennies
lol no

Stop whining. You can whine when you explain why an Ak47 deals more damage than a g3 or m1 garand despite using a less powerful cartridge than either one. You can whine after you explain why turning on 3 round burst make you a God tier marksman. You can whine when you explain why shotgun gives the D&D equivalent of a +10 to hit. You can whine when you explain why wearing Kevlar can let you soak a .50 cal butler's armor piercing.

Your game goes beyond pulp or heroic or unrealistic. It just makes zero fucking sense.

I apologize, I've had some bad number related experiences with the game, and
while there are definitely some advantages and disadvantages to the system, its also flexible enough that they work in a variety of settings.
I'm personally a big fan of Necessary Evil, love the idea of the second generation of 'heroes' being villains. Anyone have any stories from playing it?
I'd also be interested in hearing if anyone has read up on the time travel one, timezero I think?
Then of course there's the venerable deadlands, post apocalypse even crazier than most.
Also wondering if anyone picked up the rifts port and has given it a once over, if so what did you think?
Also played in a game where we used the future supplement, sci fi companion I think? It's got some solid rules there, adds some nice customization to the core.
What's your favorite setting, got any stories from games in it?

To be fair only anime pedophiles like shitseeker. Whether or not they are superior that retards who like savage worlds is really in your court but you aren't doing a very good job so far.

Nah, fuck you nigger. D4s don't even roll properly. If your game is easy to cheat at, its a bad game.

Enjoyed Tour of Darkness immensely, just wish the game I ran in lasted longer. Players got to drive around in pic related scanning the treeline for Charlie

depends on the d4 actually

>Necessary Evil, love the idea of the second generation of 'heroes' being villains. Anyone have any stories from playing it?
Yep. I ran the whole thing. Player broke the campaign from session one by playing a character with intangibility and telekinesis, basically was immortal because he chose magic to be what affected him and basically nothing had magic. Shitty power. He was always intangible too. Also the encounters are literally all "the PCs fight a dozen drones". The group made a joke of the first adventure by all turning invisible or intangible and evading most of the traps.

Because it is an action movie system and the garand damage is entirely appropriate as the main gun in a ww2 flick, while the ak damage is again entirely appropriate in a more modern movie where kevlar, so broken its mechanic was phased out entirely in later companions kevlar is more of the norm?

Also ETU/interface 0 shotgun, we've been over this in literally every thread, its a generic tool kit use the rules you want, tweek the rules you have a problem with, and don't use the ones you fucking sperg over.

He's just looking for attention mate. No point in wasting your time with him.

>What's your favorite setting, got any stories from games in it?
One that I made myself. Post apoc setting inspired by dark rp Garry Mod maps, has psionics and loads of weird monsters. First adventure ended with an edgelord character severing an unconscious woman's spine after they captured her.

Also nearly forgot my point of the shotgun literally being the hollywood depiction, again as per the stated goals of the system. Of course it works like that. Have you ever considered any other option which immediately outclasses shotguns the second you move out of punching distance?

It's like you've been presented with an ogre and instead of backing the fuck up, you've walked into the range of its "fuck you I'm an ogre" fist and then complained when it hit you for a fuck ton of damage.

Too late for that.

But seriously if we're going to complain about something let's talk about how garbage and useless the scifi companion's missiles are especially considering their cost.

>First adventure ended with an edgelord character severing an unconscious woman's spine after they captured her.
I um

Jesus. Why? Just because he could? Are you guys playing Saw or something?

>Because it is an action movie system and the garand damage is entirely appropriate as the main gun in a ww2 flick, while the ak damage is again entirely appropriate in a more modern movie where kevlar,
Except if you use a garand against someone in Kevlar it is more effective because it has more energy, you stupid motheruxkxing piece of shit. And maybe I want to use garand and AK in the same goddamn campaign? What then cockbait? And why does an m1 garands power depend on what the target is wearing? Are you fucking retarded? Stop with your shitty apologist rationalization. The game is objectively wrong. The +1 ak damage doesn't even matter when Kevlar negates all of its AP and has +4 toughness against it. Also the garand fires a more powerful round so it should do AT LEAST EQUAL DAMAGE NOT . DON'T GIVE ME THIS SHIT WHEN PISTOL DEALS LESS DAMAGE THAN RIFLE AND THE .45 AND .357 DEAL MORE DAMAGE THAN 9MM.

If we keep poking you, will you eventually start breathing fire, or just shit yourself?

Where the fuck are you setting your game where someone is shooting you with a garand in fucking 20XX user? Or fuck many years before that. That's my point. Its a generic system. Use the era appropriate gun or stop bitching that a fucking medieval crossbow doesn't have the appropriate ballistics when put up against a man in environmentally sealed power armor.

Or.

Fucking gasp.

Change it.
Or play ops and tactics instead you /k/ nut, who is so short sighted you can't pick a system more suited for your fucking personal tastes

Worst scaling issue I can think of is Savage Rifts. Heavy Armor was explicitly put into the game to avoid insane armor values and yet Robots have 10 to 20 points of armor more than power armor. It's impossible to have a Mega Damage fight in Rifts where weapons that can damage 20 foot tall robots don't utterly annihilate 15 foot tall power armor.

I might be quoting the wrong system here, but that doesn't make you any less of a faggot.

It's a shittier alternative system to Unisystem, with more books.

>MMXVII
>using pyramidal d4s

Well basically
>characters are from village built around radio station
>winter coming, need medicine
>send characters to scavenge in the city about 20 miles away
>get to city, fight some demon wolves, then later some bandits
>camp on rooftop, during the night some guys in riot armor show up on motorcycles
>characters get ready for a tough fight
>suddenly something comes out of the alleyway and slaughters all of them
>characters fight the thing, a six tentacled beast, one PC gets a permanent injury (lame)
>they capture some bandits later on and bring them to hospital to trade for medicine
>turns out the guys are deserters so the hospital opens fire on them
>characters have riot armor from the other bandits corpses
>fight their way inside
>lame character gets btfo
>has new character he introduces as captive of the bandits
>they free him
>bandits treated him well by all accounts
>he finds bandit leader, a 20ish year old woman who has some subtle psychic abilities
>fight her and knock her out
>she hadnt event wished the pcs harm, the men opened fire without orders
>new rescued pc: "this is a hospital right? There should be scalpels around"
>he finds one and cuts her spine on the lower part
>rolls four raises on a healing check
>figure ok he managed it
>they throw her unconscious body in the back of their truck along with the medicine, and drive off
>later she wakes up screaming in terror that she can't control anything below the waist, and when she finds out what they did she screams at him "you re fucki mg sick!"
>character later hands her a note (both irl into a in character) saying he is sorry for what he did to her
>she is now slowly dying of a spinal infection, being dragged along in a wheelchair pudding and shitting herself

Maybe some fucking Vietnam shit or walking dead type shit? Or some other situation where a .3006 rifle is used? Ops and Tactics is complete shit. And I should not have to make house rules to compensnate for a LITERAL FUCKING ERROR ON THE PART OF THE DEVELOPERS.