If the Leman Russ is such a great tank, how come the Space Marines don't use it?

A rustic tank made for the massed normal people army, maybe in raw stats it is better than most of the SM vehicles in most combat situation, but Rhino variants are more sophisticated technology wise. It is the same with the Rhino and the Chimera.

BUT by this point i am mostly sure it is mostly about "it isn't an astartes made tank" for commoners that need more than 5 people to use it.

As much as I hate to try and make sense of 40k, it could be that the Leman Russ isn't as readily modifiable as the Predators that space marines use, and it may be that not being based on the Rhino chassis (since that seems to be the standard basis for most SM vehicles) increases their logistical strain.

Reminder.

>far future armour materials
>engine that runs on any combustible liquid
>high-energy weapons
>auto-loader
>range-finder
>defensive warning systems

Yeah, it's just a metal box with a gun.

>If the Leman Russ is such a great tank
It isn't though because GW has done nothing but nerf it since 5e.

I imagine it's supposed to be the AK47 of tanks. Efficient, reliable, durable, a supremely elegant but simple design.

What a surprise, guardfags want 5e back.

For a M41st millennium tank. I mean, the Rhino is an efficient, reliable, durable, a supremely elegant but simple design tank, but nobody shits on it for being a WW1 tonk.

>all shit that the Tau and Necrons do better

Except the combustible liquid part, but that's because they have better shit.

As I said, it would be like the United States looking at a Churchill and seeing it as something with great potential.

Imagine being the crew of that tank and having to explain afterwards what happened

You're not even trying at this point.

In what way is that bait? The Leman Russ is vastly inferior and more primitive than the Tau and Necron's armaments.

The Tau have a tank thst flies, has nigh unlimited power, equivalent armor and a gun that can put a hole in a space marine drop pod before it jits the ground from extreme range.

What could the Leman Russ possibly offer the Tau?

everything that's already found on the hammerhead

A swift death

So... Hammerhead is no different from a Russ.

>be successful game
>have same shitty tank with same shitty name forever
>have same shitty units with same shitty memes forever
>profit

Yet somehow you get shit like . And yet somehow the Russ can fight all the advanced space alien tanks just fine.

They're too fat to fit inside

>longer range of engagement
>carries two disposable drones to flush out enemy infantry hiding in buildings
>70kmph
>smaller targeting profile
all excellent traits for a tank, none of which the leman russ possess

you're aware that tanks don't fight battles in a vacuum, right?

It's made out of paper.

>more guns
>more varied guns
>better armour
>doesn't float off the ground to present more of itself than necessary

kmph
damn that's slow, i expected better to be honest(i know it's a lot for a tank, but we are talkign about a flying tank form the future, i thought they went faster)

Not really, on montka they are also superior in armor

another thing is that the imperium cant even use proper tactics, they just ammass tanks close to each other in big easy targetable blobs and sends them forward so the commander can shoot his bolt pistol.

So Imperial Guard is so amazing or Tau/Necrons are so shitty, that taking the equivalent of a Churchill as your MBT out to a modern combat zone evens the odds?

>what are catachans
>what are elysians
>what are harakoni
>what are steel legion
>what are tallarn

People do love rising on that Krieg dick as much as they need to prove a point.

The Leman Russ tank chassis is cheap, durable, and the controls are easy to learn. It's not great individually compared to Hammerhead Gunships or Fire Prisms but Leman Russ tanks often have the numerical advantage.
The real question is why the Imperium gives it's super soldiers a converted APC instead of a high end tank to use.

Except Leman Russes can ge churned out by the dozens by a single factory, and undergo repairs and conversions in the field. Not behind lines, on the battlefield itself.

The hammerheads speed, stability, and railgun are impressive, yes. But, like most IG tech, the Russ is a logistical wet dream.

ESPECIALLY the Anihilator variant.

OH OH OHHHHHHHN SICK BURN

Heavier Imperial weapons can be effective against alien armor, given the right circumstances. It's the job of the tank commander and the unit officers to produce those circumstances. Same for both the Tau and the Necrons.

Same reason Seal Team 6 doesn't combat drop with a compliment of Abrams tanks.

The predator was good enough for DAoT humans to use as their MBT, so it's good enough for Marines. Its compatibility with Rhinos makes repair and maintenance easy in the field with limited support.

Also, a Russ doesn't need a special character and their space magic computers to down a titan.

What is this from

Space Marine tanks are meant to be lighter and based all on the same parts to allow for quick field repair.

>Equivalent armor
Just fucking no, Tau stuff have only good defence when they use shield technology instead of the armor itself.

The point of the Leman Russ is that it is a combination of a Sherman and T-34 with super weapons and good frontal armor.

Internal space issues. More importantly, it doesn't really follow SM doctrine. It's not fast enough and doesn't carry infantry. The rear is also far too weak for something expected to be surrounded.

>Nu-Tau fluff
You mean one of the most wankiest and most contradictory book in all the entire 40k fluff?

Space marines want something light and mobile than can be transported easily and rapidly.

Because the product lines are different.

to be fair, according to the fluff from montka and siege of vraks, the kriegers are the ones who use the most resonable tactics... but i guess its because the imperial armour writers arent that much into needless grimderp and napoleonic formations

But the churchill wasn't made by a less advanced civilisation using parts from older, more powerful civilisations. The leman russ possess so many black box technologies that the imperium has no idea how to use other than in this specific tank. AV14 would be amazing on chimeras or rhinos as standard, but the imperium literally does not know how. That's what the tau mean by wasted technology, they might have the world's greatest power generator and greatest power absorber working against each other inside that thing and the imperium would never know.

>The predator was good enough for DAoT humans to use as their MBT
I thought in that period of human history a Baneblade was categorized as a "light tank"?

I thought the Predator was a light tank for DAoT humanity.

for somereason i added montka, i meant just the siege of vraks

>Rhino
>ww1 tank
it's an m113, also not a tank

The whole Imperium uses a fair amount of tactics and doctrines are varying and often lay in tactics and skills deployed by various groups that, often, are used to their skills. It's just that memes are easier and more amusing to remember.

They don't need tanks because Space Marines are the heavy armor. Most Space Marines function as heavy shock troops and their usual tactics focus on surgical strikes from orbit. Their vehicles are less about additional firepower and more about getting the marines to where they need to go faster. They value mobility and robustness more than raw firepower. That's why they use the Rhino, it's fast, durable, and it can't be disabled without outright dismantling it.

>I don't know how the mechanicus works

People need to stop believing the memes. Some things are lost, but the Leman Russ is absolutely not. For fucks sake, Tank Commanders switch out weapons and create whole new patterns.

Vanquisher turrets aren't rare because the Mechanicus doesn't know how they work, they're rare because the forges are all headed by paranoid autists who horde every scrap of data they find.

mobility. It is the same reason that the Russians use a Tank that is 17 tons less. Or the current day Japanese.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_10

However they use a light tank for a different reason, namely because their bridges are not made for heavy loads. The US also made a Airborne tank.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M551_Sheridan

They use predators tanks likely for the same reason that the US used the Sheirdan; very easy to get into and out of operational areas.

And yes that is a gun shooting a missile.

Because the Predator Destructor exists.

>Vanquisher turrets aren't rare because the Mechanicus doesn't know how they work, they're rare because the forges are all headed by paranoid autists who horde every scrap of data they find.

No, it is not even that. The upper levels of the Mechanicus withhold production licenses of desirable things to forge worlds they want to keep down, which is most of them.

Okay, let me fill this out. I'm a treadhead. I've spent a LOT of time thinking about the Russ and the ideals that lead the Imperium to use it so much.

First off, this guy is retarded.

The Tau Hammerhead is a glorified tank destroyer. It has HE submunitions, but it is designed more as a tank killer than an infantry support platform. It is more lightly armored than the Leman Russ and, in variations designed for Anti-Tank work, the Russ can outcompete in firepower with the twin-linked lascannon and vanquisher cannon.

The Russ is, while a bit of a design monstrosity, a fair decent all around MBT. The design is not one based on the modern idea of tank combat. Modern tanks are based on highly mobile warfare and highly technological system connections.

The Leman Russ is an ugly, slab-sided monstrosity with quite a number of failures. The rear armor is almost nothing, the gun depression is practically 0, and the room in the tank is T-34-tier.

However, on the other side, it is a highly reliable, highly modular platform that can be run on numerous fuels, produced by numerous materials and can be re-outfitted quite easily. The crews, as well, can expect very reliable weapon systems and, depending, on very reliable FCS systems.

It is not the PERFECT tank. It is not a CONTEMPORARY tank. However, it is the perfect tank for 40k.

Reliable, easy on logistics, capable of mounting large amounts of firepower and capable of being used by fresh crews with some expectation of survival.

Said no source ever.

Pic related.

...

1d4chan.org/wiki/Baneblade
>It is supposedly one of the oldest and largest tank designs used by the Imperium, despite that it's actually medium-sized according to the old Epic fluff. Then again, the "big" tanks in Epic were closer to moving, gun-mounting cathedrals.
Just repeated what I read, and the DAoT page claims Terminator armor was used for deep space mining operations.

>its just a longer battle cannon
>"hurr durr how does it work?"

never change my dearest admech, never change.

Not really. There's more to the Vanquisher than just gun length. Rifling or smoothbore? What should the pressure in the breech be? What should the dimensions of the breech actually be? Stabilization? What about munitions? Long rod? HEAT? APCBC?

The AdMech logically should be able to reverse engineer the Vanquisher quite reliably, but you're just overly generalizing it.

>Vanquishers produced by Gryphonne IV and Stygies VIII have been used to equipped Imperial Guard regiments, however both jealously guard their secrets and have not allowed any comparative tests to take place.

According to what the wiki says is Imp Armour 1, the Mech DID reverse-engineer it, we're just being our usual hoarding selves.

>17pdr. is just a long 2pdr.
>AR15 is just a long M1911

Except further down in the same text it says the reproductions are not perfect and lack several features of the proper vanquisher cannons.

>1d4chan
>a source

Unless you can find that in an actual publication, it's just "someone said it on the internet."

>DAoT page claims Terminator armor was used for deep space mining operations.

And here's the actual fluff.

Maybe so. Still, they reverse-engineered it and both Forge Worlds have different patterns and are working on fixing the problems, or they were three editions and a couple hundred years ago. Maybe they've got it down by now.

The Mechanicus main tank (Dunecrawler) packs shielding, stabilizers and firepower that put the Tau to shame with their neutron lasers, although they are slower. Russ is obviously designed to be spammable, simple and reliable as all hell rather than you know, good.

Point taken, but where did the Leman Russ tank come into play if DAoT humans favored the Predator?

>putting a tank inside a tank

Same place where all the operating systems that aren't Windows or iOS come from. Same place where all the rifles that aren't AR or AK come from. There's still room for more, even if everyone is using one or two things.

Also, the Russ is more of a heavy infantry tank than a battle tank.

The Leman Russ tank was designed during the great crusade not the DAoT.

Is it still true that every Terminator suit contains a fragment of the emperors armor?

So yeah. They could make more, but the Mechanicus are all autists.

lolwut

>vanquisher tech was lost
>no it wasn't, mars just won't give it out
>text says it was lost and a few worlds have managed to make their imitations
>"lololol admech a shit! A SHIIIIIT!"

Ok.

...

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Crux_Terminatus

For very long, on and off, the fluff has said that each terminator Crux Terminatus contained a microscopic fragment of the Emperor's armour he wore when confronting Horus.

The TT's retarded balance doesn't count.

>"on the ancient hive world of Nova Borilia, the alien tyranny of the Noman, an enslavement that went back millennia, was destroyed. This last conflict in particular was a celebrated victory, for which the ancient battle tank STC restored to the Imperium in that same campaign was named in Leman Russ' honour by the Mechanicum."
-HH Book 7, pg. 81

Also, in Crusade Imperialis Army List, pg. 91, it says that the Russ was just being issued prior to the outbreak of the Heresy, and that most often they were directed to units loyal to the Warmaster first. Pg. 48 mentions that the Malcador was widespread during the Crusade and was being phased out in favor of the tactically more flexible Russ, but the Heresy forced reserves of Malcadors back into action to fill the need for armoured support.

The Leman Russ is the T-34 of 40k

It doesn't matter if it's "good" or "bad", what matters is "We can make a SHIT TON of these things"

Nigger, have you ever been inside a tank IRL? I'm a 6'3" former APC crewman and I had issues fitting inside what was mostly a metal box on treads.

A crew of 7+ foot tall dudes with huge shoulderpads is not going to fit in a tank made for normal sized people.

It's so fucking obvious... Why the FUCK haven't I made a North Korean themed IG army yet?

i believe the point is the machine aside from it's components is poorly designed.
It's an infantry tank and not a MBT and as such is slow as shit, can't really be used for anything but human waves and defensive tactics
Actually that's the whole argument
It's not an MBT, it's a shitty slow as shit AFV without countermeasures, modern Armour styles, weapon placement, high profile, under powered turrets, terrible logistical support (you have 3 non turret guns, so you're going to supply those along with the main gun). It's cramped and the driver sights suck.
now it's more ironic than a Modern tank, it definitly fits the theme
oh and Sponsons are bad as a general idea
very limited field of fire
>Churchill and seeing it as something with great potential.
fuck you the churchhill was great
not comet great but still great.
it's more like them looking at the t-38 and saying this.....
this has potential
actually no
THIS TANK IS A FRENCH TANK
has a real world counter part either the char or the Renault can't remember which

I'd argue the Sherman over the T-34. Reliable, easily mass produced, easily repaired, and better than people give it credit for.

It's not a great tank OP, it's a reliable tank. Big difference. Not to mention the difference in mobility which would be crucial for a fast-moving, hard-hitting force like the Marines. It'd be like giving a paratroop regiment a division of Tigers to go with their parachutes

>Leman Russ Buttplug
>- Each Leman Russ Buttplug may purchase one Space Wolf infantry model as a Dedicated Transport

...

>Forgetting cadians

You do realize France had the best tanks at the start of ww2 right?

It would be outstanding if it could reliably hit the broad side of a barn.

And you can run it on malt liquor and fervent prayers.

THE PLANET BROKE BEFORE THE GUARD DID

...

anakyr is probably saying that leman Russ tanks was designed to be autonomous(abominable intelligence) and mass produced to field a.i only tank battalions. I don't think mechanicus didn't know more like "fuck that"

An M1 Abrams tank, an almost 40 year old design right now, has a top speed of about 75kmph.

That is super fucking slow for animu space tanks from the double future.