If the heresy never happened, would Curze still go rouge on the empire and fight for his own beliefs?

If the heresy never happened, would Curze still go rouge on the empire and fight for his own beliefs?

If I understand correctly, he and his legion were already on the way to become renegades before Horus juiced up on chaos roids.

He would get put down like mad dog he is

You dont catch a night lord, he catches you.

Also Curze was right all along.

Kurze and Angron would have gone rogue eventually, heresy or not.
Mortarion and Perturabo are maybes

Yea Angron would go rouge like Curze eventually, he hated big E from the start.

Dont know about Mortarion but Perturabo is a good guess, his bitterness against Dorn and bleeding of his own legion makes him a wild card.

Curz was already basically rogue before the HH, it just hadn't caught up with him yet. He'd already assaulted dorn, fled, been censured and destroyed his own homeworld. The Night Lords ended up siding with Horus because they were already about to be hunted down.

Curze was to be censured for being unreliable for Imperial command, in part due to his legion being flooded by maniacs that reveled in horror instead of using terror as a means to an end rather than an end in and of itself and in part because he was losing his grip on reality. So he defected, instead of going to Terra to be censured he went AWOL with his legion and were called back for Isstvaan.

Night Lords would've suffered the same fate they did in 40k had Horus not gone heretic, Curze would've died and the 8th legion splintered into selfish warbands. Maybe Horus would've been able to save some of the legion and rebuild it for his own purposes but they would've still splintered.

>Perturabo is a good guess, his bitterness against Dorn and bleeding of his own legion makes him a wild card.

I dont think Perturarbo is much of a wild card, yes he hated his own legion and Dorn but thats not why he breaks, Perty ultimately fears failure and when the WB manipulated the legion into nuking Olympia thats when Perturarbo broke because he had failed and the incoming censure would be the final nail in the coffin he made for himself, it would cement Dorn's supremacy over Perturarbo and rob him of his own pride, because that is all he has.

Perturarbo may hate his position, he may want more out of his life, but him and his legion are a vacuum ready to be filled with purpose and as long as he keeps that he will remain loyalist because unlike Fulgrim or Mortarion Perturarbo hates everyone, even Horus so he wont be easily manipulated by him which is why the WB had to force the IW to nuke Olympia, so they had no other refuge but Horus.

if the heresy had never happened would fuckwits like you still be unable to spell rogue correctly? it is a mystery.

Night Lords were pretty much rogue by the time the Heresy happened anyway.

Curze's vision was absolute. He would have ended up the same way reguardless.

Well no because then his own tormenting visions of the heresy happening would never have happened.

Angron and Curze were inevitable traitors

Personally I'd like to see Curz go rouge on the empire.
You go gal

it's ROGUE you fuckers!

ROGUE! ROUGE IS RED! GODDAMN IT!

The Night Lord's never changed their colour scheme to rouge, that was the World Eaters.

How did Horus get Curze to fight on Istvaan?

I'd like to pretend my father would have stayed loyal, putting down rebellions and traitors or maybe that he went rogue for the right reasons. I know these are both wrong. The Night Haunter would have descended further into madness, Nostramo would have still been destroyed although perhaps there would still have been some redemption for the legion.

>You batman, we're gonna fuck up some dad's boys. You in?

And why would that convince Kurze at that point?

Curze was insane and had an insatiable murder boner.

Yes thats kind of my point?

MFW I look at all the fucks anyone not anally obliterated really gives.

Kurze was already under shit for taking things too far and hated the emperor for using Nostromon shitstains to refill his legion.

The real question is why the fuck were the other legions totally cool with him and his boys being there? Didn't he already beat the shit out of Dorn at that point?

only because emps didnt fucking kill his masters and let all his friends die

Thats what happens when you're a complete failure of a primarch.

>Supes called you gay, Batman.

>go rouge

The traitors all hated each other, didn't get along, didn't care, saw each other as tools, etc. None of them were totally cool with anyone else, it just didn't matter. They're trying to kill their dad, not be friends

I think he's asking why Dorn, who was recently strangled by Curze, was planning an attack against Horus with the Night Lords, who were rouge for 60 years at this point, on the loyalist side.

Angron yes, he's unsalvagable and his problems started when the Emperor refused to save his comrades. Rotten from the start.

Curze? Eh, not so set in stone. It's still possible, maybe even probable given his condition. But without the impending Heresy, a lot of the underlying reasons for his madness never manifest. If Horus hadn't been plotting to plunge the galaxy into eternal war, Curze wouldn't have been driven mad by his visions of it. Of course, he was a little unstable from the start. There's always the possibility that something else would have thrown him over the edge. But without the Heresy and the visions of a galaxy in flames and the Emperor a living corpse on the Golden Throne, the underlying reason for his mental torture is gone.

As for the other traitor primarchs, Fulgrim would have eventually fallen thanks to the Laer Blade, and Lorgar, in his search for a higher power to worship, would have eventually fallen to the whisperings of Kor Phaeron and Erebus. Fulgrim and Lorgar's corruption started from within and they would have eventually fallen one way or another.

As for Perty and Mort, it's far less likely but still within the realm of possibility. If it's a case of "The Lorgar Heresy", where Horus remains loyal but traitor Astartes still war upon the Imperium, it's likely they would have remained loyal. One of the biggest reasons the IW and DG turned is because they felt overlooked, and with three less legions they would have become waaaaay more valuable. Of course, this might have simply reinforced the notion that they are overlooked, overworked, and unappreciated, which were the major reasons for the fall of these two legions.

Of them all, the most surely-loyal are the Sons of Horus and the Thousand Sons. Without Horus falling to Chaos, obviously his legion remains loyal, and without the Heresy, Magnus would have no need to force himself into the webway to warn his father.

>The real question is why the fuck were the other legions totally cool with him and his boys being there? Didn't he already beat the shit out of Dorn at that point?
Curze was supposed to be Vulkan's guest at the time, Khan pursued and caught him after Nostramo got BTFOd.
Dorn had actually sent his orders to Sevatar, the acting commander of the legion. When the astropaths notified him that Curze received and heeded his order, he started to grow uneasy.
I believe this stuff is in the Dark King, the Lightning Tower and Artefacts.

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>asking why dorn was planning an attack against horus with the night lords
what?

The REAL question is why Ferrus Manus was such a retard. Fulgrim fucking told him Lorgar was with Horus when he tried to get Ferrus to join the traitors.

>him and his legion are a vacuum ready to be filled with purpose
The thing is he will never get his purpose since he is literally just Dorn but objectively worse. Perturabo will snap inevitably, it is simply a matter of when.

Take a look around. Now look in the mirror. Now look at the rope. You know what to do.

Istvaan V.

He worded it inelegantly, but the question is why Dorn, who was at that point in charge of the Loyalist forces, believed that Curze was trustworthy for Istvaan V.

see Curze was never supposed to be at Isstvan.

I read Dark King and Lightning tower a loooong time ago, but never Artefacts. Because following the Heresy is fucking insane at this point.

The hilarious thing is that the new, stupid interpretation of Emps shows that the Primarchs and Space Marines really WERE just machines built to kill.

So he just shows up after 50 years being AWOL with his legion and no one questions this?

I love how over the top, piss-take edgy Night Lords are. It's just a shame they don't have an actual full on Vampire Counts in space blood drinking trait to push them fully over the line.

Even if Emps showed up and fought side by side with Angron until every last one of his "masters" were dead Angron still would have rebelled. He was damaged goods, and his fate is one of the more ironic ones in 40k.

>Primarchs and Space Marines really WERE just machines built to kill.

No shit dumbass. The Emperor said so himself in his famous KNOW NO FEAR manly ass speech.

You really have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm not even going to bother to try to drag you in the right direction.

Obviously not. Prehaps try being more sensible next time.

Read the post you fucking downer.
Curze had escaped Vulkan's custody and rejoined his legion.
He was with Vulkan for some 15-20 years.

Hes saying its nothing new that the SM were built to kill renard. That has always been the case

>Curze
>under Vulkan's custody
When was this? Lexicanum says nothing.

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I know that if he went rouge he'd look FABULOUUUUS

Because some user pulled it out of their ass.