>players come into games without having read the rulebook
>they get all mad and blustery when you told them they should have read it
Where the fuck does this mindset come from? And I'm not talking about memorizing every single chart, statblock and reference table, but when players forget simple shit like what a bonus is, or how basic skill checks work, and when you ask them why, they said they didn't read the rulebook.
Why are players so lazy? And where is this entitlement coming from?
Did you have a session zero? Did you talk to them about expectations and system knowledge? Maybe they thought this would be an introductory game and the first session would be you helping them go over rules. This could have been avoided by just asking them if they know the system and going from there like an adult.
It's because of lot of newcomers to TTRPGs mistake the role of GM as rule master instead of someone who facilitates the game. So while a GM should of course have an in depth, if not complete, knowledge of the rules of whatever system they're running and answer the inevitable questions their players have, many players think this means they don't need to read the rules themselves and can just rely on the GM to help them or easily pick up the game as they go.
They think it's a videogame and they can get quick entertainment with zero effort
They think the GM is the one that takes care of everything and they just enjoy the experience
if shitlords, apply fist until fixed or less players
or just grab quality people next time
Option three is having a simple system or the GM having such a vast experience with the complex system that the players just say what the characters do, you say "roll die+modifier" and then check the results out. Mouseguard could be nice for this. Read player intentions and have the PC do that after clarification, such as "I attack the biggest guy" "there are 2 biggest guys, one has a spear, the other a gun, which one and how do you attack?".
Don't try to teach them a lesson such as having their character do stupid shit because the player worded an intent wrong.
I don't stress about it. As long as a couple of people at the table know the full mechanics, the game can keep going.
One of the things I like about 5e is that it's got simple classes and complicated classes. Like reading rulebooks? Play a wizard and know the mechanics of every spell. Rulebooks not fun for you? Play a Champion fighter. You've got attacks and high strength; tell me what you wanna do and I'll tell you what to roll. Hell, it can even be a bonus not being focused on mechanics, if you wind up doing "Can I push over the column to knock him off the ledge?" type stuff more often.
I like playing with my friends. Not all of them are good at rules, but that's ok.
A system that needs "to be read by everyone" is almost surely a metric ton of shitfuck. Even complex systems and/or games in which the GM (if present) could use a wingman don't really need everyone to have read it all, if they're decent.
That being said what did you tell them exactly? Did you give them a cheat sheet like every sane man should use in every RPG more complex than, say, Trollbabe?
Do not tell them to read the book, tell them to read the chapters of it they need to know. A person can read about 15% of the page count of the shadow run 5e core book and know single rule that matters to their PC for example.
Time to introduce them to the knoll. Or perhaps the gazebo.
>Wargaming, not ttrpg gaming
>Player comes in with having skimmed the rulebook once
>Periodically forgets rules, especially ones that don't come up every turn.
>Still the strongest player at the store by a reasonable margin.
It's not fair.
He is playing Columbo with you
How did you tell them they should've read it? Because if you sperged out that might explain why they got blustery user.
ITT: panderers pander to plebs
Shitplebs who aren't willing to put in any effort don't deserve any effort in return. If you can't grasp this basic concept of fairness then you're probably someone who is simply desperate to be liked, even by ingrates and fools.
I told you, Eric. We didn't read the rules because unlike you, we all have lives.
>literally so busy they can't read ~50 pages of content in the span of multiple weeks
How many minimum-wage jobs do you work?
Yeah, this.
Stop wasting your time on people who don't put in the effort. You deserve better, OP.
>Why are players so lazy? And where is this entitlement coming from?
I feel that some people just have an aversion to reading, I mean, just look at the people in the Order Of The Stick threads that complain about WORDSWORDSWORDS, they would probably have an aneurysm if they had to read a rulebook.
OotS is a bad example because it actually is chock full of shotty filler and over-exposition. It's a comic that might actually be better served as just being a novel.
user I have to fap, play WoW -and- shitpost on my time off. I can't devote the dozens of minutes required to read a rulebook.
I'm a GM who switches systems almost every time I start a new campaign. My players usually haven't even seen the rulebook before session 0. So I help them through character creation. I show them the race and class lists. I give them suggestions whenever they have to pick from a long list*. I make sure they write down everything.
By session 1 I've worked out what charts or other quick reference material players might need and printed it out. For one system, I printed out two A4 pages with a list of actions that any character could perform and a quick description of each.
*Always giving them more suggestions than things they can pick. Always loud enough for other players to hear. Sometimes players pick things I've suggested for other players.
At this point I've set the mindset that my players don't need to read the rulebooks. Sure, I give them a .pdf of it, but everything else I've done tells them that they don't need to read it. So most don't.
>when players forget simple shit like what a bonus is, or how basic skill checks work, and when you ask them why, they said they didn't read the rulebook.
I've found it's quicker to just explain whatever the player doesn't know and move on. They will learn through repetition.
Now, if they still don't know after a few sessions, not reading the rulebook is no longer an excuse because I've explained it to them multiple times.
Honestly, I think attitudes like the OPs are part of why some people don't want to try new systems. They ran into people who demand they learn the system. They spent a lot of time learning one system. Going through that again is too much work for their entertainment.
People who are sufficiently literate, fluent, and cultured to enjoy mainstream roleplaying games are more than capable of reading and following the rulebooks. People who are not any of those things can be safely left to their freeform sonic RPs or online shooter griefing, or whatever filth drenches their minds from day-to-day.
Also, even some capable newbies imagine it's acceptable to just blunder in with no knowledge and expect others to carry them through the process. That misconception must be remedied quickly and without mincing words.
New players need to understand what is expected of them long before they're even offered the chance to play. If players who understand the expectation are unwilling or unable to put in the bare minimum, then you need to be able to weed those players out as early as possible.
>Did you have a session zero?
>to tell players they should read the book for the system they are going to play
This is the nu-male generation of RPG players, Veeky Forums. This is what you asked for, this is what you supported with your laissez-faire and friendliness. A bunch of faggots who want to fuck around with no consequences, want their hands held, want the DM to suck them off. This is where fudging rolls comes from, this is where the "Three Clue Rule" comes from, this is where "you can't make puzzles because low-IQ players will get triggered" comes from, this is where "every encounter has to be tailored to the party because if the barbarian is useless in a long-range combat they will get triggered" bullshit comes from. A load of limp-dick faggot-ass players who whine about everything. If they can't even man up enough to play a goddamn RPG then what the fuck are they worth as human beings?
>a bloo bloo we TPK'd because we fought something without any thought as to whether we should
>a bloo bloo someone caught us off guard with the oldest trick in the book
>a bloo bloo the enemy used tactics and we didn't so we lost
>a bloo bloo i fell off a cliff i was fighting near that shouldn't have happened, this isn't like the nat20 greentexts i read on tumblr! wahhhhh!
entitlement
I disagree because I don't think the players should know the rules. They tell you what their character wants to do, and you as the GM use your judgement and knowledge of the rules mechanics to tell them what to roll. Otherwise they start metagaming because you're reduced the uncertainty and combat turns into a board game instead of a challenge.
lolfag
As someone who is new to TTRPGs, yeah. Though I honestly do try and read all the core rules and for stuff I anticipate doing, I'll sometimes just try things and then see what the rules are(if there are any) that support/make it (im)possible.