So would Pennywise The Clown from IT be any considerable threat to an individual Grey Knight?

It exists outside our universe as a being even larger than it, the Deadlights. It however can manifest a much weaker physical form in this universe, which is the fear-eating clown monster depicted in the book. While this form can be defeated, it's implied that it's pretty much impossible to destroy IT's true form, especially as later books heavily imply that the Losers didn't manage to kill Pennywise off, at least not for good.

>What is the Ritual of Chud

True, it only seals It away, but the train is still run on ol' Bev.

Huh. Spooky, Cosmic Horrors are always fun to learn about even if its not my personal cup of tea.

Thank you for the information kind user.

As for why IT does its thing, it's too feed and gain strength by consuming the children, presumably to grow more and more so that it could eventually consume the entire universe. Its spider form is described as having laid several eggs, which the Losers themselves say they couldn't be sure if they managed to crush them all, which may be how its physical presence in our universe seems to persist as said

>which is the fear-eating clown monster
The Spider, you mean. Pennywise was just the mask it used to lure its victims.

Yes, I just said "clown monster" as it'd probably be easier to swallow for somebody unfamiliar with the book who only know about IT taking the form of a clown than revealing ti is also a spider.

>why does something with such power decide to fuck around in some random town in the middle of Maine?
Derry, Maine (or the place that would become Derry in several million years) was just the spot where It landed when It arrived on our level of the Tower.

For a long time there were only dinosaurs and other dumb animals around, and their fear was like drinking dishwater. After humans showed up, It definitely didn't have any reason to leave.

Oh boy Mini Spider Clowns.

>this shit is also tied into the Tower as well

Well damn. I am learning a lot more about the King-verse than I planned but fuck it this is neat.

Probably not. It would just be another daemon.

IT's main power is a terrifying appearance. Grey Knights aren't brave - they're conditioned to have no fear whatsoever. Your typical Grey Knight may not win, but he'll just go all choppy-choppy even if it takes him centuries.

Remember, Alaric found a way to fuck up Ghargalouth, who was a demon that can best be described as 'an endless mountain of flesh and screaming faces'. The Warden of the Blade engaged in not one, but two, Dark Souls boss fights back-to-back.

It's a pretty interesting mythos, though I'm not surprised the movie adaptation sucked hard and why they're MOSTLY removing references to it in the It moves (there's a lot of Turtles in the new film, but the subject isn't addressed directly.)

Some things only work in text.

Stop lying, /a/nimal

Except IT isn't just another daemon, you could call it sphysical form that but its true nature is an endless DIMENSION that is larger than our entire universe, as and say. I'm a 40k fan but your wnak literally cannot let you whether this, especially as the second time the Loser's Club had to fight IT (whose psychioc turmoil as it was being wounded was enought o cause multiple spontaneous deaths both all across the planet and implied to be on OTHER planets at the same time) they literally had to get help from a God that is one of the greatest being in the entire Dark Tower mythos, which encompasses SEVERAL universes.

Fun fact. Its implied that the only reason why Derry even exists, is because IT permits it's existence so that IT can feed off of the souls and fears of all the children there. The entire town is basically an extension of IT.

>basing your response off the watered down movies where the only key to defeating even its basic adaptations was The Power of Believe instead of needing to commune with deities that could squash the galaxy with their pinky finger.

According to IT's lore, the Turtle literally created our universe because it had a stomach cramp.

The Loser's Club didn't have Nemesis Force Weapons and psyker powers, either.

To be fair, 40K is the kind of plot where - sometimes - the demons aren't defeated by clever tactics or something out of the left-field. With the Grey Knights, sometimes the solution is simply "We get two squads of Purifiers, and then we kick his fucking teeth down his throat."

>The Loser's Club didn't have Nemesis Force Weapons and psyker powers, either.
Did you even read that post you linked to

The folks in Derry were only able to shut the door on this particular manifestation with the direct intervention of one of the primordial beings that oversees the entire multiverse. This is the Turtle of Enormous Girth, upon whose shell He holds the Earth. His thought is slow but always kind, he holds us all within his mind.

Can de lach, mi him en tow.

>whose psychioc turmoil as it was being wounded was enought o cause multiple spontaneous deaths both all across the planet and implied to be on OTHER planets at the same time)
And despite all this, IT is still *vaaaaaaastly* weaker than It's lord and master, the Crimson King, whone true form (known as Dis) is the *entirety* of the Outer Dark itself, and may very well be the Prim as well, which is the primordial sea from which all demon-kind descended.

Again, it's really not that kind of story. The Crimson King was a total pussy, for example.

>We get two squads of Purifiers, and then we kick his fucking teeth down his throat

This statement has caused me to wonder: what would Doomguy do if faced with IT?

That dork with the sneetches wasn't really the Crimson King, though. More of a toenail clipping of the real thing.

So from what I can tell, Grey knights could probably banish the manifestation, but that wouldn't stop it from
a: still existing back home
b: coming back later

And if the Grey Knights tried to fight it face to face, they would be destroyed so thoroughly that even calling them a thin paste wouldn't do it justice?

>The Crimson King was a total pussy, for example.
Only because that specific avatar, Los, was running off of the half-mortal fleshbag equivalent to Windows Vista at the time. It did *not* expect the decay of the Tower to spread to even it's physical vessel.

Pretty much, yeah. They might be able to destroy It if they somehow destroyed the Dark Tower, but then all of creation would collapse back into the primordial soup of the Prim along with the GKs. Even then they might not destroy It.

At one point Pennywise turns into a number of flying leeches that literally eat somebody out of existence entirely. A basic GK is dead in the water the second it attempts to challenge IT in a battle, especially as merely gazing into ITs deadlights inflicts a fate that's mostly reserved for Horus in 40k fluff.

If you're not afraid of Pennywise, a child can beat him to death with a baseball bat (which is what pretty much happens)

Grey Knights are well-accustomed to mentally resist daemonic mind fuckery and space marines have no fear as it is. They'd give Pennywise 1 bolt to the head and that would be it

>didn't read lol

Technically, you can't destroy daemons. You can only banish them. The Grey Knights novels acknowledge that - for instance, after dealing with the Prince of a Thousand Faces, the ending has an Inquisitor note:

> "He'll be back in one thousand years, but we have his true name. We'll fuck his shit up."

>They might be able to destroy It if they somehow destroyed the Dark Tower, but then all of creation would collapse back into the primordial soup of the Prim along with the GKs. Even then they might not destroy It.
If they *somehow* destroyed the Dark Tower, Dis and every other demon would be positively ecstatic, and would quickly begin to swarm over the ruins of Creation to devour it.

I know the new movie is good but I really hate how many people who don't even research the book lore it brings to Kingverse discussion.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believed that while IT was made of the same pure hate and chaos that the Crimson King was made of, but that IT wasn't a direct servant, more driven by ITs own desire to consume and devour? I'm kind of a newbie to tower lore, so please clarify me if I'm wrong!

R I P
A N D
T E A R
THAT WHICH IS BIGGER THAN OUR UNIVERSE

YOUR GUTS ARE HUGE.

H U G E

>Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believed that while IT was made of the same pure hate and chaos that the Crimson King was made of, but that IT wasn't a direct servant, more driven by ITs own desire to consume and devour?
You are in fact, correct. IT wasn't a 'direct' servitude to Dis/the Red King, but seeing as the King is literally the Outer Dark itself, It was still a fragment of its essence all the same. IT was also still working towards the same goal of disrupting the flow of the Beams supporting the Tower, so it was indirectly serving Dis in a way.

Ah, that's what I thought! Thanks for the clarification.

Eh? Not much worse than most Daemon weaponry. A squad of Grey Knights can still cast a ritual of banishment, which we know works.

Yeah, IT's not dead, but neither are the scores of Daemons that the GK banish on a regular basis.

Oh, flying leeches. Whatever will power-armored Grey Knights do against flying leeches.

I get what you're saying, though. However, it's pretty clear that IT - like most daemons - can be injured and driven back. It's like the Daemon Primarchs, who are vast and all-powerful, but cannot bring that over when they actually manifest.

I mean, Angron appeared on Armaggeddon, and he was banished between several hundred Grey Knights got into a fistfight with him. Sure, it's not the most poetic solution, but a story that involved Grey Knights tends to conclude with "THEN WE SHOT EVERYONE".

The "ritual of banishment" that IT requires to be banished also requires consorting with either the Turtle or the Other, and forgive me for not believing that the GKs would be willing to consort with what they'd probably simply see as other Daemons. That being said, if they were willing to seek this aid they could definitely keep IT from consuming the 40K universe for a short time at least.

I do wonder how the fuck they'd react to learning about the rest of the towerverse and how the scope of their struggle is far, far grander than they thought.

>Oh, flying leeches. Whatever will power-armored Grey Knights do against flying leeches.
Flying leeches that quite literally erase anything they eat from reality. That's quite different from simple flying leeches.

IT can also FORCE you to gaze into the deadlights, which as has been stated multiple times before erases your soul horus-style.

So theoretically could IT be starved if Derry was wiped out? Or if that doesn't work the entire planet?

Yeah, that's what I mean. The destruction of the Tower *might* somehow weaken It enough to be killed, but otherwise the Deadlights just get to hang out with the other pre-Prim entities and fight over rubble that includes small wisps of Grey Knights.

>Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believed that while IT was made of the same pure hate and chaos that the Crimson King was made of, but that IT wasn't a direct servant, more driven by ITs own desire to consume and devour? I'm kind of a newbie to tower lore, so please clarify me if I'm wrong!
Not that guy, but you're not wrong. If you haven't read Insomnia yet, you will probably enjoy it because it's basically the story of some people who accidentally gets a glimpse of a few levels of the Tower.

I also suggest these stories if you want to read more about the various levels of the Tower and the methods of moving between them:

>Travellin' Jack Stories:
The Talisman
Black House

>Flagg Stories:
Eyes of the Dragon
The Man In the Black Suit

>Todash Stories
The Mist
Mrs. Todd's Shortcut

>Captain Trips Stories
The Stand
Night Surf

>Kill The Hat
From A Buick 8

>Bull Shit
Rose Madder

>Androids but not Andy-droids
Beachworld

>Can-Toi Stories
Everything's Eventual
The Ten O'Clock People

Probably forgetting some, so anyone else please feel free to add to this list.

Grey knights fight reality deleting shit all the time.
Yeah, the deadlights are gonna kill em though, but a squad all banishing at once should survive long enough to make it go away for a decade or two.

Perhaps that specific manifestation, but ITs Deadlights form does not need to feed like its physical form. To the Imperium as a whole, IT would quickly become one of those monsters they have to deal with regularly to prevent it from getting too strong, but can't really genuinely put down either - the real nightmare would be if its other manifestations landed in say, Tau space, or maybe an Eldar craftworld, someplace it'd be hard for the Imperium to reach and purge in time.

>So theoretically could IT be starved if Derry was wiped out? Or if that doesn't work the entire planet?
It would be like cutting a tentacle off of an octopus that has an infinite number of tentacles.

>This statement has caused me to wonder: what would Doomguy do if faced with IT?
Pretty much the same thing ol' Tuska Daemonkilla would do.

Rip and tear it apart before krumpin' it out of our reality, and then follow it back home to keep killin' it because 'daemons iz good fer a foight!'. Gathering a WAAAAGH!!! of like-minded Orks before giving chase is optional/likely in Tuska's case of course. Which means instead of one Orky Doomguy, it'd be a million (minium) Orky Doomguys rip and tearing it apart at once.

This post gives you a comparative power level between the two settings, as in 40k a demon can be met in single combat by a loud stabby fungus.

As long as we're discussing The Towerverse, do you mind if I ask just how The Stand relates to The Dark Tower? I remember reading it back in High School and loving the divine vs. infernal feel to it, but now I'm hearing old Randal Flagg is actually a character that is linked with The Dark Tower series as well. Do the events in this book ever actually get referenced again over the other stories?

This is why I typically don't enjoy Cosmic Horrors as villains and enemies.

I personally find it more interesting if the thing has some kind of weakness. O well still neat topic to discuss.

>Tuska Daemonkilla and Doomguy meet in a bar and chum it up
>Hellscapes across hundreds of universes tremble in fear

I wouldn't say that absolutely, as we've tried to stress multiple times in this thread the only known example of IT being defeated requires help from a higher power, which is not usually the case for 40k Daemons, and once again you can't reach nor kill the Deadlights, it's a non-matter space and if you look at it your soul goes FOOSH. 40k may be strong but some of the things depicted in the Kingverse stomp to a hilarious degree. I'm pretty sure there's a character in Insomnia that can straight up decide to kill basically anyone whenever it wants because it's supposed to make sure people die on time, but then again I'm even more of a newb than and haven't read the book yet.

Tuska can't revive if his soul is annihilated by the deadlights, you dip. If that were the case Horus would be partying with the chaos gods in the warp right now.

>Do the events in this book ever actually get referenced again over the other stories?
Yes, Flagg has a very specific goal in mind, as sowing chaos and destruction on a global scale directly contributes to the weakening of the Beams which keep the Dark Tower standing. All the bad shit that bad entities do is more or less aimed at the goal of corroding the Beams to the point where they snap and everything goes tits-up for mortals.

What will actually happen if the Dark Tower falls is unknown even to said entities, but they're all pretty sure that they'll be able to ride the wave to ultimate power over creation.

So is Flagg actually backed by a Satanic power, or is he supernatural himself?

There was always a lot of shit about 'IT' that was completely retarded, but that fuckery pales in comparison to this 'KingVerse' shit that I'm listening to...

>All these people claling IT a Daemon
IT is more like a chaos god, given daemons in lore are more like tiny pieces of their chaos god. As such manifestations of IT like the Spider/Pennywise would be ITs daemons.

I can tell you more if you want, but I think you should read Eyes of the Dragon and then re-read The Stand instead.

>tfw just now realized that the deus ex machina in DT7 was also used in Slade

>Doomguy prepares to fuck shit up
>the forces of hell equip firearms and meet him in battle in an open prairie

Sounds fair enough man, thanks!

Was The Langoliers ever united with the rest of the Kingverse? Were they just bottom-feeder gribblies that cleaned up the shed skin cells of Creation?

>Can dish it out but can't take it
Why are 40k fans always like this when the primacy of their favored setting is challenged?

I doubt that would end well for the demons.

Oops, meant for

>Were they just bottom-feeder gribblies that cleaned up the shed skin cells of Creation?
Pretty much, yeah. Those passengers just got unlucky and fell off the table onto the floor.

>So is Flagg actually backed by a Satanic power, or is he supernatural himself?
He's both backed by a Satanic power (The Outer Dark/Dis), as well as *being* a supernatural force himself (He is heavily implied to be a Mask of the Crawling Chaos). He once manifested as pic related, and plagued a town by corrupting their children to murder and debauchery.

Go play literally any DOOM game that has hitscan enemies and come back. Make sure you play past the first Episode at least.

So... Stephen King-verse. What order of things should I read?

>He once manifested as pic related

Nah mate just rip and tear their shots and get into spicy CQC

Funny, I feel exactly the same way about 40k. The more I hear about it, the more retarded it gets.

Shit, forgot image. I've been Flagged.

Thank you for confirming you haven't played The Plutonia Experiment yet and haven't had the pleasure of fighting Zombie Chaingunners without anything to take cover with. You probably ought to get on that.

This list is pretty good for the most part.

>And despite all this, IT is still *vaaaaaaastly* weaker than It's lord and master, the Crimson King, whone true form (known as Dis) is the *entirety* of the Outer Dark itself, and may very well be the Prim as well, which is the primordial sea from which all demon-kind descended.
And yet when we finally see him in person, he just chucks grenades at the characters from a balcony. God DAMN the Dark Tower was disappointing

I'm not much of a 40k fanboy, I try to avoid partaking in fanboy-ism in general. But since you mention it your description of IT is coming off an awful lot like how Chaos fanboys talk about Chaos...

> Well, my guy is the most powerful, and transcends reality and time, so can't be beaten because he has already won, and even if he could be beaten he'd respawn in under a minute, then teleport behind you and snap your neck

It's all I can do to stop my eyes from rolling into the back of my skull...

>grey knights
>literally CAN'T be scared even if they wanted to
There's got to be a way for a clever demon/monster/eldritch whatever to use that against them.

>Well, my guy is the most powerful, and transcends reality and time, so can't be beaten because he has already won, and even if he could be beaten he'd respawn in under a minute, then teleport behind you and snap your neck
That's not really how IT is treated in its book, it's portrayed as an awful monster intended to be hated. I'd say that 40k suffers that syndrome more than Stephen King does given its recent wank about chaos being undefeatable and endless while also portraying it as cool and awesome. (Looking at you , ADB)

The Dark Tower's setting is simply a very grand scale, it's not really intended to be a powerlevel measuring contest but instead that's simply how strong the beings are within.

I was memeing hitscan enemies are the worst things in existence imo

>it's not really intended to be a powerlevel measuring contest

Bro. You're talking to 40k fans. Everything is a powerlevel measuring contest, all the time, with everything, forever. And they always have to win, or they throw a tantrum and have a grumpy dumpy.

As I said, that was just the true Kings avatar, Los, who was running on the some very shitty fleshbag hardware. When the Tower started to decay, and breakdown, Los' host body started to breakdown as well because his mortal frame couldn't handle it.

What if you just dick IT into submission?

Oh, I understand that completely. That doesn't make the actual encounter, with the closest thing to the big bad of the entire dark towerverse, any less disappointing. There's a good REASON in-universe it's disappointing, sure, but that doesn't make it any less unsatisfying as a reader, you know? The Crimson King has been hyped up again and again, just really well built up as this world-shaking threat, and then the heroes finally confront him in the Dark Tower, and...well, ya know.

Unfortunately it's more likely he's going to dick you given his constant rape threats in the book (for the sake of "spicing" the children with fear and torment, of course)

>Tuska can't revive if his soul is annihilated by the deadlights, you dip
>Not understanding that Orks are constantly manifesting the 'WAAAGH!!! field' wherever they go
>said 'WAAAGH!! field' comes complete with Gork and Mork, Chaos God-tier entities
>'WAAAAGH!!! field' also has reality-warping powers
>Gork and Mork tell Tuska & co. they can look at Deadlights and kill them.
>Tuska & Orks believe this, overriding the Deadlights soul-killing ability through sheer (admittedly ridiculous) WAAAGH!!! power of belief
>Tuska & co. proceed to start wrecking as much shit as possible.
>Main drawbacks to this whole plot is IT is mostly blackness and Orks believe black to be "da 'ardest colah", plus it's a fucking DIMENSION (so: huge as fuck) meaning killing all of IT is going to take a looooong time.

Ork 'WAAAGH!!!' reality-warping bullshittery in action folks. Don't ever let them out of 40k, they'll break almost any other setting they come across with their "We believe it to be so therefore it is!" shenanigans.

Fuck an entire dimension? Go for it Slaanesh.

>So... Stephen King-verse. What order of things should I read?

Tough question. Off the top of my head, I'd say:

The Shining
Carrie
Firestarter
The Gunslinger
The Stand
The Eyes of the Dragon
The Talisman
Needful Things
The Drawing of the Three
The Waste Lands
The Mist
Rose Madder
Wizard and Glass
The Little Sisters of Eluria
IT
Insomnia
Desperation/The Regulators (doesn't matter which one you read first, just that you read them both back to back)
From a Buick 8
Black House
The Wind Through the Keyhole

If you want to go out on a downer, finish off with Wolves of the Calla. The next two books in the DT series (Song of Susannah and The Dark Tower) are pretty hit and miss as far as quality goes, because they were written in haste after King got hit by a van and thought he might die before he got to finish the story. DT7 is pretty good throughout but has a terrible non-climax and an overall sense that the author is betraying the setting for a quick finish.

I should have put Everything's Eventual along with Firestarter and Carrie under "Breaker Stories".

I hear ya user, but do remember that King pretty much rushed the last two books because he seriously thought he might die after his accident, thus the quality *dropped* massively, and several plot threads were just dropped utterly in his haste to finish the series.

Yeah. I just keep hoping he'll go back and finish it properly. I loved the series, and "The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed" is still my favorite opening line in all of fiction.

I kind of feel like the ending of DT7 kind of was an apology for the rush treatment, saying that the story wasn't truly over, even if he'll probably never finish it himself... but at least that wasn't the true end

If you don't know, there are several versions of The Gunslinger, as King has revised the story a few times. This is from my First Signet Printing (1989) paperback. The Man in Black introduces himself and tells Roland about the Tower and who sits in the highest room.

...

...

How does Cujo play into the KingVerse? Is a rabid St.Bernard actually a eldritch chaos god?

>yfw a doggo would obliterate the grey knights

It's implied he's possessed by the spirit of the killer fromt he Dead Zone but I simply prefer to interpret him as a kind animal ravaged by an all-too-real disease since it makes him much sadder, in my eyes.