Conscription

Why don't we just nuke the bugs sir?

Oh good, the buffet has arrived.

First you think you will be killing bugs in glorious battles. Next you spend year or so forming pillows into perfect cubed and waxing the floor until in shines. Then you die to a bug.

Shoot me! Murder is wrong!

Oh wait, we're fighting bugs?

Sir please disreguard that sir!

Yeah original setting infantry was basically walking tanks.

Original setting as in the book, It's worth a read.

Because that would destroy the valuable planets they have unjustly claimed. It is humanity's manifest destiny to claim the stars, we will scour these disgusting vermin from the galaxy and claim our birthright!

Ahem, my good sir. I do say, this is completely insulting. May our Great God have Mercy on you despite your ignorance.

Book and movie the all volunteer nature of the MI, and the benefits for service, were a big plot point. Conscription wouldn't make sense.

Fuck

M.I. does the dying, fleet just does the flying.

tfw not smart enough to be a pilot.

Well our God doesn't believe in mercy for bugs, so fuck you bitch we've got a divine mandate to shove our boots up your collective asses.

Such anger and Rage! I say, you certainly seemed peeved off my friend. What? Did one of our asteroids crush one of your "oh-so beloved" cities?

Is there a planet in the Imperium that uses Heinlein's veteran suffrage? If there isn't, then Games Worksop needs to make one. It would be a good replacement for Cadia.

....And now I have fluff for my Scions. Thanks buddy.

>Starship Troopers
>conscription

>Co-ed showers and fascism
DAILY REMINDER: THE SOCIETY IN STARSHIP TROOPERS IS A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC

>Yeah original setting infantry was basically walking tanks.
>walking
rofl

Veeky Forums's knowledge of starship troopers is a fucking abortion. educate yourselves you ignorant nigger cock guzzling faggots.

youtube.com/watch?v=0r9znBPjhjc

They did walk, user.

That is not an Ape, that does not reflect the description given in the book at all.

they traveled via jump pack, you cockless homosexual

Military republic, I think.

What do you call it when people do not have franchise be default but are able to earn if it they feel the need?

>rubbing pups nose in their piddle and spanking them

the extreme, hypersonic irony is this doesn't actually work, just causes the dog to associate urine with your displeasure, and confuses and upsets the fuck out of them.

It's also proven that punishment does not deter crime, it's not a matter of being flippy flappy about rights, it just does not fucking work, and if anything our current justice system is TOO hard on for punishment and revenge because it does nothing but harden and anger repeat offenders.

I know Heinlein wasn't actually into the stuff he wrote, he took various sides, but it's hilarious how completely wrong about human nature and order this selection is in every way. No wonder the director felt the need to make the movie satire

a democratic republic without universal sufferage for being born. sufferage must be earned.

>Dudes so dumb, he's only listened to the first 50 pages

It's interesting how he was willing to embrace the idea of 'what if this worked? what would the implications be?' for not only technology as is common for science fiction, but for social systems.

And yes, in this case the ideas are deeply discredited. Harsher punishments on children does nothing to reduce crime.

i read the whole book, fuckboy.

I would point out that the starship troopers elements of that movie were added in retroactively, and that the movie as a satire about military fascism existed before it became the movie Starship troopers.

I've never raised a dog, so I suppose I'll take your word about that.

As for corporal punishment, I would point out that canning has proven an effective deterrent for crime in south east Asia..

Then how'd they get around if they weren't jumping?

>DAILY REMINDER: THE SOCIETY IN STARSHIP TROOPERS IS A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC
No, it's an oligarchic republic. Only people which get through several years of service to the state. Everyone else has no voice in government on top of other privileges. The system is just too goddamn easy to abuse and it will be abused by leaders. You can arrange that the kid of someone you don't like does not get the vote. Moreover why bother setting up policies which benefit the Civilians? That's just throwing treasure down the drain.
youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

>As for corporal punishment, I would point out that canning has proven an effective deterrent for crime in south east Asia.
In one city state which is an anomaly in many, many ways. In other places it's done jack and shit.

>SEA law and order
>effective

The country your referring to is borderline police state in which people are constantly monitored and morality is rigorously enforced and they have a Japan tier court system.

>this doesn't actually work

Of course it does. It worked on my cat.

>proven that punishment does not deter crime
>our current justice system is TOO hard

Did you learn that garbage from your college professors? Heinlein was right. They have a vested interest in disorder.

Almost certainly. That's the point of the setting, it's big enough and wide enough that you could do that.

Separately, I love Heinlein and Starship Troopers to death, but I feel like Dubois is pretty full of shit there. Almost feels like an old man whining about how the younger generation doesn't have any morals because of or .

But then again, he wrote books with diametrically opposite creeds, so they can't all have been his personal soapbox.

And?

>police state in which people are constantly monitored and morality is rigorously enforced

Police states are what you have in western colleges. Thinking is a crime, but communist thugs rampage with impunity.

>Japan tier court system

Good for them. Singapore has the cleanest subways I have ever seen.

/pol/ pls go.

Wow user you sure convinced me with those hot opinions OH WAIT

math.dartmouth.edu/~lamperti/my DP paper, current edit.htm

psychologytoday.com/blog/ethics-in-question/201509/harsh-justice

deathpenalty.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000983

law.jrank.org/pages/739/Corporal-Punishment-Effectiveness.html

Multiple studies and thesis have been done on this. Belief in corporal punishment is strictly superstitious in nature, it's correlation without causation.

And point of fact it didn't work on your cat because your cat is too fucking stupid to have the same concept of permanency to remember it pissed in the house and that this is somehow what caused your anger, all it knows is piss makes you angry. This MAY lead to it pissing away from you just to avoid trouble, which round-about serves the purpose, but it also fucks with it's perceptions

>Police states are what you have in western colleges

trailerparkfag detected

That's exactly what I thought. You are an ivory tower college girl.

>it didn't work on your cat
>This MAY lead to it pissing away

Wrong. I already told you it worked. That's the problem with you navel gazing pseudo intellectuals. When your half baked theories contradict reality, then you assume that it is reality that is wrong. You do not understand animal nature. Why would I listen to you when it comes to human nature? Why would anyone listen to you when it comes to remaking civilization in your image?

>in them thar good old days things worked!

Except when your children died of Polio you luddite. You don't understand animal nature either. You're projecting human behavior ad thought onto a stupid animal. It doesn't have the same level of permanency you do. It has the intellect of a toddler at best. It literally just see's you as another fucking cat.

Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. What you THINK worked on your cat is not what worked on your cat, putting a square peg into a round hole with a hammer WORKS but it's not EFFECTIVE, and it's sure as hell not how you want to raise your kids.

>/pol/ thinks that heinlein was a visionary because of his meme tier discussion about society.

Yeah, society will just crumble and the veterans will take over and make everything right.

>died of Polio you luddite

Blatant strawman. You are pathetic.

>Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation.

Now you are chanting like a primitive.

>WORKS but it's not EFFECTIVE

If you call something stupid, but it works, then it’s not stupid. When have you ivory tower psychologists ever been right about anything? When have you ever been effective at anything? There are so many mental cases going to shrinks these days, but I have never, ever heard of a person being cured. Especially serial killer cannibals. You and your psychologists must never be given control over the justice system. Your ilk would give cannibals hug therapy sessions or something equally retarded. I would give them a massive dose of lead.

Odds are your cat will still piss random places, away from view, like between furniture and a wall or something.

>You do not understand animal nature.
The hilarity is killing me.

>I have never heard of a person being cured.
>being this much of a brainlet.
you should take your prescription of lead. Save us all from interacting with you.

>Odds are your cat will still piss random places, away from view, like between furniture and a wall or something.
Which is honestly even worse, since the ammonia in the urine is going to stink like hell and be impossible to get out.

There's never any point in negative reinforcement for a cat, but cats are easy to train via positive reinforcement.

With dogs you can make a case that in some limited cases negative enforcement can be effective at stopping some behaviors, but it leads to other behaviors you don't want so why the fuck bother? It's still easier to go with positive reinforcement only.

>Ivory tower
>Scientific, evidence based analysis of criminal justice

Oh yeah. Why the fuck would you listen to people that know what they are talking about? You should just go with tough talk and superstition based ideas about how things work.

And fuck Jon Snow for taking away that pump handle.

>is given multiple studies on recidivism and the ineffectiveness of corporal punishment
>nuh-uh! Imma shot them bad guys

t. avg amerifat ladies and gentlemen

don't scare him. He might shoot up a school.

In his defence, recidivism after death is near zero in almost all cases

They were obviously rolling around on their thread duh

I'm medically retired, you can't conscript me.

And then it only works on dogs if you catch them exactly while they're doing it, otherwise it just confuses them. And yeah, most times it's better to just positively reinforce the opposite, positive behaviour or just the dog not reacting.

Stupid people have a lot of trouble with this. There's a whole lot of paradoxical stuff with criminal justice.

The worst, harshest, most overpacked and unpleasant prisons should be the ones that make people least likely to commit another crime, right? The hellholes with the highest rate of abuse, rape and murder should be the last place anyone wants to go back to, right?

Yet it turns out they have the worst results. Punishment, how much you make a person suffers, matters far less then what you get them used to and what they have to do to make it though the system.

The worse the prison, the more abusive, the more maladjusted the people come out of it. The worst prisons become machines to produce people that have no life or social skills that work outside of a fucked up prison.

The best prisons, with the lowest rates of prisoner abuse, have the lowest rates of recidivism.

>>shot them bad guys
>avg amerifat

We are superior to you in every way.

Foreigner who has been to america and britain.
Britbong cops are more polite and helpful than burger ones by far.

That's because the police in the United States investigate crimes, track and apprehend suspects.

In the UK they are only authorized to check TV licenses.

>Britbong cops are more polite and helpful

Cops aren't suppose to be tourist guides. When muslim terrorists start murdering people, who would you rather have on your side? British bobbies and psychologists? Or American cops with guns?

>tfw cops in my country are helpful, polite, and have guns.
>tfw get to laugh at both Americuks and Britbongs for their fucked up cops.

>cops are supposed to terrorize people asking them for directions.
Of course. Land of the free.
The only thing you freely get is a taser and helpings of lead.

Stop lying using green text.

Amerishart please. Your cops LARP as cowboys instead of helping their communities

>People that have never been to America.

American cops are perfectly nice.

I am living there right now.

>burger extrajudicial killings exceed limey terrorist deaths
>clearly kebab is the real threat here

Bugs are bad... but we have to purge the Skinny's too!

Europe has been invaded by millions of muslim savages. Who will win? The jihadists or European psychologists and their studies?

>le 56% face
Skinnies are allies now

>harsher punishments
This is a funny phrase because it fails to distinguish between that same puppy being punished every few minutes that never is able to absorb any reasonable cause for punishment and a quick punishment with a clear association: the first is harsher, but you're right to think the first will probably just instill the pupper with worse tendencies than if they were only given positive conditioning. It's not about being harsh, it's about being firm and knowing what you're trying to convey. And no, the pup doesn't understand what the correlation between his mistakes and his punishments MEANS and has no established right from wrong from them, but it does still undergo conditioning: it can associate it's behavior with the immediate result after repetition and acts to avoid the results.

You're missing the point if you don't think it's about ingraining children with a sense of responsibility towards wider social institutions: that is to say creating the exact opposite of the focus on the individual and their identity as the center point of society around which everything must bend. Whether or not this can be done with spanking and corporal punishment, I'll say that historically it already was. Can it be done without corporal punishment? We have no real evidence on that, since the root of avoiding it is the idolization of the individual. With that process done, adult punishment doesn't enter the equation. Gang violence is indeed a survival strategy, and allowing people to fall into that is essentially failure to bring them into a state of understanding with society as a whole, usually as children. If they fall into it when they're young and aren't brought out, the behaviors aren't likely to go away as an adult. You'll notice that the method is paired with teaching: that's where the real "why" is ingrained. It's not just about punishment: it's about an entirely different perspective on the role of the individual in society.

Except for the only people able to exercise democracy in Starship Troopers are civilians. You don't get that benefit of signing up to the military until after you leave.

I made a home brew Guard regiment that used his system. If normal people joined the PDF they would receive basic human rights and could still live a normal life. Joining the Guard would grant you the planets Federal rights.

no, they are citizens that have completed their terms of service.

>conscription
>all volunteer army
really crafty b8 OP.

SIR YES SIR! MY NAME IS PRIVATE PARTS SIR!

Guys can we please ignore/pol/ and go back to pretending that we're space soldiers fighting space bugs in space

All these poli-posting and not one about the tabletop rpg.

Role up some characters fuckers and get some campaigns going

Heinlein Starship troopers or verhoven ones?
The former has much better survival chances but the latter has hot coeds

A mix of both. Veterans are like the ones in the books while the new recruits are more among the lines of the first movie

Wait shit I thought you where talking about abort abort abort

IMHO theres a bunch of loaded assumptions being made on both sides of this discussion.

on both sides we are assuming we can peer into the mental landscape of a cat or a dog. And a big problem in the social sciences is that we assume the expiementer is "perfect" when theres some data and statisics attached to a study we take those statistics but don't really look too closely at the methods, or really even try to recreate said experiment.

but as far as your comment is concerned. you make assumptions that all prisons house the same amount of prisons for the same kinds of crime.
however you have federal prisions, state prisons, county jail and mental hospitals as well.

and theres prisons for white collar crime, and blue collar crime. you assume that becuase of this that the onus of being bad is on the prison, and not on the person.

plain and simple you put a bunch of bad people together, shit is gonna happen, and ideas will be exchanged.

they do both shit fuck

yeah random searches without warrants really protect my privacy.

I wish I could say I'm surprised by what an embarrassing shitfest you all managed to turn a fucking STARSHIP TROOPERS THREAD into. This is probably one of the better boards to avoid the tidal wave of "here my insane person political beliefs and if you don't LOVE THEM, I will shit my diaper and rub shit on every wall" that infests most other boards. Try to live up to that reputation that Veeky Forums is level-headed and more mature that most boards.

This is not how Starship Troopers works. It being a volunteer force is core to the theme and conscription would be a violation of the entire foundation of their government.

How the fuck would you miss this idea.

here's what happens during every starship troopers thread
some underage retard thinks heinlein of all people predicted society's downfall and that we are currently headed towards complete ruin and being beaten at a local school will help society.
Then he tries to aggressively assert his asspulled fact and whines that decades of academic study in this matter is liberal bias and we must save europe from brown people.

looks like some fag has some loaded assumptions about what "helping the community" actually means

>police enters your house without a warrant
>this isn't big brother shit.
>police is armed with batons so that they can't re-enact the Shootout at OK-Corral when they feel like it.
>muh freedumbs

Why are you so afraid of a simple discussion about democracy? Especially when the OP started the thread with an inherently political topic.

>wants to talk about a goofy setting
>Its an inherently political topic
The movie pretty much removes politics altogether from the story

>The movie pretty much removes politics

Was that a serious statement? The second scene is in politics class. Even Verhoeven himself disagrees with you.

>goofy setting
It's OK, user, not everyone needs to be literate. There'll always be a need for burgerflippers.

>having any choice about serving the Imperium in battle

Wasn't it a history class?