Which plane is dislike most?

Khans fell apart when it became MUH DRAGONS

Urza & Odyssey block were godtier.

Everything else is trash

Kamigawa is my favorite plane, and frankly i wish the design for sets had drifted in that direction.

Obviously the mechanics themselves were issues, overly parasitic while lacking pay-off, but i loved that the world felt more complete, while modern sets are vignettes of "interesting" locations.

I'm technically a newfag to the game (been around since RtR or original Innistrad, can't remember) but:
-fucking loved Ravnica
-Thought Theros was kinda cool
-Didn't care for Tarkir too much
-hated BFZ, though I feel like I would love the original Zendikar
-Shadows was kinda fun imo
-DESIGNATED AETHER STREETS
-WE WUZ ETERNALS N SHIET

Ulgrotha, because of the set it's associated with more than any lore flaw.

I never understood the hate for Kamigawa. Maybe the mechanics were iffy but I loved the tribes and the lore was GOAT.

Tarkir is probably my least favorite but only because it went from a cool plane full of martial artists and warriors and shamans and shit with fun color combos to being a shitty half-Ravnica full of MUH DRAGONS and the flavor went to hell

blame Sarkhan for that

Innistrad. It's just a bunch of Cthulhu horrors and >Muh Christians are EVIL

For me personally, it's by far Theros. The interesting thing about most MtG settings is that, for the most part, they are fairly unique across the whole of gaming. There really isn't a video game I can't think of that's set in essentially Mirrodin, for example. Theros and Innistrad, however, are the exceptions. Innistrad is Bloodborne, and Theros might as well be God of War or one of a billion other similar setting games. Innistrad at least has interesting sets to go with it.

Seriously, when Standard went to hell, I started playing with Faux-Standards using two nonadjacent blocks + Coreset/CSP combos. Literally the only interesting block to go with Theros was Kamigawa, and it's not the best block to go with CHK (OG Zendikar + CSP +CHK + your pick of core set with decent dual lands is just insane, but CHK just plays well with any block that has a decent mana base).

>Muh Christians are EVIL

Come again?

Innistrad predates Bloodborne user.

Wrong. Wedge factions were interesting because they were new. Dual color factions are fine, nothing new, but fine. Dragons vs Khans is not the debate here. It's color philosophy

>Forgetting Tempest
>FORGETTING INVASION

Alara and Kamigawa were my favorite planes.

Kaladesh was a pointless piece of garbage plane, as was Theros.

Kaladesh was bad because it's overly "Indian" and/or middle eastern without having any of the things that make those cultures interesting.

Theros was bad because it's just "Greece", but not. It's like they went down a life of classical Greece and added all of those things to MTG, with a very very slight twist.

I've never met anybody more pleb than you.

I can't hate Theros purely because of Nyx-Fleece Ram. I just love it too much.

I personally hate Theros the most, I would have liked it much more if they just called the block "literally greek mythology" and unscrambled all the names.

Mercadia.

Do people just hate Amonkhet for the shoe-horned black people? Who cares? It's my favorite set lore-wise since Innistrad.

I would have liked Amonkhet more if Bolas wasn't involved and it didn't get all fucked up. I loved the Egypt theme and the zombies and mummies, and I really liked the gods before they all died. Also Samut is fucking awful and literally any other character in the set would have been a cooler planeswalker.

>muh rose-colored glasses
When you forget all the stupid and rediculous shit that happened back then the general outline is really fucking neat.
When you get down and dirty with the details, especially during the Weatherlight saga, shit gets reaaaaal weird.

DESIGNATED SHITTING AETHER was my least favorite.

>Kaladesh is building a Aether program!
>planepower by 2020!

>it's a "I literally cannot fathom why people would dislike things I like so I'll just imply they're racist" episode

POO ON THE BLUE

>Innistrad is Bloodborne
you mean Bloodborne is Innistrad

I actually loved Theros. I thought the mechanics fit the worldbuilding incredibly well.

I've been playing since RtR, and I'd say none of the planes they've done since are as interesting. Of the ones I played, I hated Kaladesh the most.
Agreed. Based Ram earned me many packs at prerelease.

> They could have started with dragons ruling the place, spawned by Ugin corpse
> We could have seen Sarkhan having to get over his dragon fetish to do the right thing
> We could have seen the great beasts being slain one after the other the clans rise to power

>>Innistrad is Bloodborne
>you mean Bloodborne is Innistrad
You mean they are both Gothic Horror Lovecraftland (tm)

>All this hate for Kaladesh
Am I seriously the only one who loved the place? Steampunk is a guilty pleasure of mine I guess, but the mechanics were unique, the block was super fun in draft, and the story honestly wasn't THAT bad compared to what's been done lately.

>lately
There is literally one block between kala and the present. Why do people love to say the like the old shit more then the shit that is atound today?

New Innistrad was utter shit. Especially since I loved the first block so much. Tarkir bored me, as did Kaladesh.

Ravnica, and RtR were great. Theros had good flavor, but it seemed only skin deep. Like they had a concept but it didn't get fleshed out. Mirrodin and Planar Chaos were fun, too.

The Avacynian church appears nominally like medieval Catholicism. At least aesthetically. Cathars are even a real group of Christians, all be it heretics wiped out by the church proper ages ago. Regardless, it's a common trope, especially lately to go religion bashing. I just don't think it fits in this example since the church was corrupted from the outside and actually were mostly good before Emmy.

Lately as in most of the sets around it. Not exclusively what came after.

Probably Kamigawa, even though it's one of my favorites. As far as my least favorite plane goes, probably Amonkhet. I really liked the idea of an Egypt plane, but they did exactly what I feared and put in the minimal amount of setting-building required since Bolas was just going to fuck shit up anyway. New Phyrexia was also a close contender.

This would be the correct answer, but no one hates Rabiah, they just pretend it doesn't exist.

Still better than the shit we have now, at least it was interesting, except maybe Mercadian Masques.

>You mean they are both Gothic Horror Lovecraftland (tm)

Innistrad didn't have Lovecraftian monsters until SOI. Been stated before that's not an integral part of the plane and will hardly be there the next time we visit

Kamigawa is liked only by patricians.

When Kamigawa came out I hate it, but with time it started to grow on me (even though the cards are awful).

I hated Kaladesh, it so... meh. It has nothing memorable to me, cards, mechanics, themes, characters, lore, etc. It's fucking boring.

I have a strong dislike of both Amonkhet and Kaladesh because they're both big examples of wasted potential. My favorite planes are Dominaria, Kamigawa, and Lorwyn because they actually feel like complete worlds and have a rich history and pretty nice worldbuilding. Time Spiral is best block though.

No, people hate Amonkhet because instead of a getting a plane with lots of rich Egyptian lore we get theme park Egypt that only exists to get fucked up in the second half. Amonkhet, Theros, and Kaladesh are the worst planes.

I personally don't care for steampunk and I would've preferred more Hindu mythological culture (though I can see why they didn't do it). However, the story really was that bad and it honestly makes me not ever want to see a return to Kaladesh. It doesn't help that it focused on 2 of my least favorite Gatewatch members (Chandra and Nissa) for a good chunk of it and it only showed us a part of the plane. Not to mention that any set that focuses more on Planeswalkers coming into the plane and following them almost exclusively is my biggest pet-peeve about more recent Magic writing. I want them to go back to focusing on the plane and its inhabitants.

>Also Samut is fucking awful and literally any other character in the set would have been a cooler planeswalker.
>tfw Hapatra will never planeswalk to Theros and learn from Pharika
Why even live

I'll go against the grain here. I love Amonkhet. Limited is a blast; games are quick and punchy and the graveyard feels like a far more important resource. I don't play Standard, so I couldn't give a shit how it affected the current meta. The curse of wandering is cool, Bolas is a badass, white zombies that make sense, Cats, -1/-1 counters, etc.

>instead of a getting a plane with lots of rich Egyptian lore we get theme park Egypt
Not to be rude, but fuck you. When Theros was cemented in people's minds and when Kaladesh's poo-in-the-loo jokes were coming out, it seemed like all of Veeky Forums was lamenting that Wizards was doing a dull, paint-by-numbers style of worldbuilding cribbing too heavily from the real world to feel like an engaging fantasy world. Now they make a set that isn't just "Egypt: The Set" and everyone just keeps on moaning.

How many (you)s and greentext one-liners implying I have bad taste of am of low mind do you think I'll get with this one?

>You are implicitly of bad taste and low mind.

Here, I started you off. No need to thank me.

Except they made an interesting plane with room to be developed and expanded and then they fucking destroyed it.

I wouldn't count it over just yet.

Besides, we all knew that Hekma was coming down the moment we learned of it's existence.

In fairness to that guy, they almost always introduce a radical change, if they don't outright destroy it: the convergence of Alara, the eldrazi in Zendikar, Avacyn's return in Innistrad, New Phyrexia, the Living Guildpact in Ravnica, etc.

Of course, on the other hand, Amonkhet was one of the most transparent examples we've gotten yet. The lore is sparse and often flimsy, though there are some interesting concepts. It seems pretty clear to me that Amonkhet was created primarily as an arena to showcase Bolas doing bad shit onscreen for people that started during (or after) Origins and have thus far only seen what is ostensibly the main antagonist being referenced briefly in dialogue. This conveniently allows Bolas to score a victory against the Gatewatch without actually producing any serious consequences in the settings the players actually care about. Bolas was entirely correct when he described Amonket as "a blighted, superstitious backworld of interest to no one who mattered," and unless they surprise me and his winning here has far-reaching consequences felt across the Multiverse (which seems doubtful), Amonkhet will have been nothing more than a cheap trick.

Dragons ruling over Tarkir was the best thing that happened. Most of the Clans were boring flavorwise, with the Dragonlords being fresh air

Best planes:
>Ravnica
>Dominaria
>Kamigawa
>Lorwyn
>Tarkir

Worst planes:
>Kaladesh
>Alara
>Ulgrotha
>Shandalar
>Amonkhet

Wished it would have stayed wedge, though.

I guess I just don't mind that Amonkhet is basically the Bolas dick-sucking plane. I like Bolas, and it's the first major appearance by him since Alara. Everyone was getting tired of the Gatewatch, so letting a fan-favorite legacy character trounce them all so soundly was refreshing. Also him using the curse of wandering and manipulating the plane into becoming his unstoppable army factory was neat and very in-character.

Although I don't know why Bolas himself was bad-mouthing the plane. "Of interest to no one who mattered." Well it seemed to be of interest to you, Bolas. Also I can't imagine a plane where everything always rises as a zombie not being of interest to black-aligned planeswalkers.

I blame Atarka and the R/B dragons.
They're just the worst, with nothing to offer anyone.

Honestly the only thing that bothered me about Kaladesh was how small it is.
Like the most important part about it is the city, with maybe a reference to the countryside. An Elf forest, and a mountain range no one can cross.

That's just so.... small.

Wasted potential is a good way to describe both of them. Reading the "Art of" books is kind of heartbreaking, because there's a bunch of cool lore and interesting setting ideas in there that were completely ignored for the sets. In Amonkhet's case, its because they rushed through everything to get to the Bolas-ing, but Kaladesh was just a mess.

I remember reading through the artbook the first time reading about the mining cities in Lathnu or the airship pirates across the open fields, or the eleven cities that led to the formation of Ghirapur, and just shaking my head in disappointment that they set the entire block in a single city for no reason.

I think they want to keep design space open for in case they want to return to the plane.

Ixalan is just the "new world" equivalent. There's a mainland where all the pirates, conquistadors, and vampires are from, but we won't see it at all in the set itself.

Well the Kaladesh story line was all about the Inventor's Fair.

which was stupid in itself. They should have focused in the conflict in the (white) Consulate with the (red) Renegades, but they just had to put Jace& friends in

Eldritch Moon Innistrad

>we have this cool horror world that was really well received
>what should we do next with it
>HEY GUYS, IT'S A-ME, MARO
>WE JUST HAD AN ELDRAZI SET SO LET'S JUST DO THAT AGAIN
>okay, should we do things subtle, or just spoil everything at once
>UH
>HMM
>LET'S SPOIL EVERYTHING ON ACCIDENT, THEN KEEP PRETENDING EVERYONE HASN'T FIGURED IT OUT
>oh, thanks Maro
>should we keep the horror references?
>NO, WHY WOULD WE DO THAT, YOU'RE DEMOTED TO WORKING ON PUZZLE QUEST
>who should we add as planeswalkers?
>THE GATEWATCH OF COURSE
>IF YOU NEED ME, I'LL BE IN MY ECHO CHAMBER

>Dragons ruling over Tarkir was the best thing that happened.
Lies. When you look at the loss of culture and things the transition from Khans to Dragons is just awful. In fact I'd say only two clans came out relatively okay; the Dromoka and Ojutai.

Or could you explain to me how going from Temur to Atarka is a positive?

Kamigawa is the contrarians' pick. The mechanics have such shitty design.

What's wrong with Shandalar other than that it kinda just exists?

That's how it has been since Innistrad. Planes are at the size of a small continent or a large island. Innistrad is just four provinces floating in sea of eldritch and Theros' world is literally flat. Ironically, Kaladesh actually has an excuse with its story being contained in a single city (it was a shitty story but still), as does Amonkhet.

So at least they are making creative excuses for not having larger worlds. Ixalan is actually an upstage from that what's with its ocean crossing. That and Conquistadors make everything automaticly awe-worthy

Innistrad actually has multiple continents, according to WotC, but you'd be forgiven for not knowing this since they seem to believe that 1 Setting = 1 Block, so this has never been mentioned in the lore proper. They're just holding out for the inevitable Innistrad exploration set a few years from now, I guess.

Kamigawa was a pretty fucking sick ass plane. The sets had problems but the setting was cool. The problem with Amonkhet is while people wanted an Egypt plane, it was just a safe boring magical ancient Egypt.

I'd say my most disliked is Kaladesh. The city is cool but we didn't really get to see much of what goes on outside of the city.

This to be honest
Everyone complains about Tarkir but glosses this over like it's nothing. (It isn't as horrible tier of planeshredding but still)

But Theros, Innistrad and some of the other planes at least have the illusion of size with different cities/towns with their own distinct look and culture.
Amonkhet might seem small, but that's only because it has been whittled down to the one city by Bolas. If there ever was a Return I imagine the plane would be "bigger" with a bunch of cities that have somehow managed to overcome the desert.

>You mean Bloodborne is Innistrad
They are equivalent statements. Not to mention, both of them leech from the same source material.

All planes after Lorwyn are mediocre to shit. Personally I'd say Innistrad is the absolute worst but Tarkir and Kaladesh are damn close.

Well, I consider them the only "dragon" clan.
If you read the Dragonlord Ojutai card without knowing is about an Elder Dragon, it could pass as Monk Spirit or other plausible types without problem; when I read about the Dragonlord Atarka I can realize we are talking about a dragon

Your views on dragon-kind are extremely limiting.

To be fair, Tarkir's flavor is absolute shit, dragons and humans alike.

Amonkhet is unironically the shittiest plane from its introduction. Zendikar post-eldrazi rape is worse though.

Kamigawa and Lorwyn/Shadowmoor are the most flavorful and therefore best planes.

I think you have misunderstood what I meant and probably the expression
>Well, I consider them the only "dragon" clan
was misleading.

It not that I do not acknowledged the other types of dragons in general, I loved the depiction of Silumgar of the greedy and selfish dragon as much I liked the Atarka or dragons in other media like pic related.

What I meant was that the Atarka and the Kolaghan are, from my point of view, the more "draconic" (if you let me pass the term), and that considering them worthless is wrong because they represent the Bestial sides of what is a "Dragon".

Honestly, not sure what there is to return too. It was one of the few planes where white Mana, the church, and angels were for the most part good. Sure, things were rough for humanity, but if you enjoyed horror, underdogs, and fairly clear good and evil, Innistrad was the place. (Doesnt hurt to have an unreasonable appreciation for angels in general).

Now the church went nuts and the angels were slaughtered almost as hard as the people's faith in them. I may be a but cynical, but I suspect if we do return humanity will have gone full fedora. Not against that theme in and iff itself. White has more than enough room for atheism and virtue based on ideals. Just not Innistrad.

Why not, I imagine that new cultures would have also developed from the event. There are probably some who still believe in Bolas as a god and others that don't anymore. Inevitably they would fight.

I liked Amonkhet a lot, I know it wasn't a real egyptian plane, but the reception for it was good enough that I think we will go back and that's when it can be more egyptian focused.

Didn't kamigawa almost kill magic based on how poorly it sold?

If I had to choose a plane to hate it would be probably Kaladesh, the setting just didn't click with me.

The humans converted over to Sigarda as the new main angel. I imagine the humans are now divided over the former church and the new sigardians.

True, but it's different enough to have lost it's appeal for me. She's a W/G angel, which was fine as part trinity if colors, it Avacyn as mono white. (I actually really loved the flavor of each angelflight having it's unique color and place in the religious order).

But I don't see Sigarda bringing back the medieval church feel, or even if a W/G angel could.

And you see the shift from religion to idiology quite clearly with Thalia. She's stopped worshiping the angels, and Avacyn, and instead fights for their ideals.

I don't think Sigarda can or will bring back faithful devotion. At best, she'll serve as a powerful Ally and living ideal to humanity, but the church on Innistrad is likely dead.

I mean, what would happen in Italy if the Pope and 3/4 of his bishops went nuts and started slaughtering people. Kinda the end of Catholicism.

No they already did convert. Though the facet I agree with you is that Sigarda is definitely weaker than Avacyn and will most likely not be able to be as succesful as Avacyn. People however held on to their faith while Avacyn was gone (and her powers) so I doubt that they would give up their faith even if Sigarda is not as great as Avacyn.

Punjabi land was pretty shit

This card with Thalia is what I was getting at, but your point is well taken. I did forget about Sigardian Priest and that portion of the faithful shifting over.

I would even take a weaker version of Avacyn, or any other angel, who was at least mono White. My main objection to Sigarda is that she is WG, and any church based around her would most likely not have the same medieval Catholic feel that Avacyn brought with her church.

Still, in that vain, I could see WTC going full Not!Protestant Reformation and turning Thalia into Not!Luther.

Regardless, I'll hold out hope that they'll restore what I loved about Innistrad to begin with, high medieval horror fantasy with a mostly good church and some kick ass angels.

And I appreciate the feedback.

I don't like Lorwyn and that other one that is also Lorwyn, but with another name.

You mean Lorwyn's grimdark alter ego, Shadowmoor?

You know what they could have done to make Kaladesh more interesting? Have Tezzeret's planar-gate location be somewhere outside of Ghirapur.
I mean, it make sense right? If the city is beset with rebels, you want to keep your secret things outside of it. Put it at Lathnu (Where they could even have a whole subplot of the renegades finding increasing shipments of materials up into the mountains, and finding Tezzeret due to it) and then give us a reason to see more of the plane besides fucking Ghirapur. Throw in some actual proper adventuring for once. Even create some drama when the Gatewatch has to leave the rebels to go after Tezz and the rebels think they're abandoning them since they don't see Tezzeret's plan as as big a problem as the crackdown. Have airship rides with the pirates, following trains and shit through the Coil, all kinds of stuff.

Fuck, Kaladesh makes me mad for how badly it's handled.

That doesn't work as one of the first things we knew about Sarkhan was that he came from a plane where dragons were extinct.

Did you not follow the Innistrad storyline at all?

The Avacynian Church were literally black magic devil-worshippers this whole time. Half of them are insane inquisitors who purge entire villages of human life to sacrifice to angels, the other half sacrifice human life to devils. Only the "Protestants" fight against the evil of the church by denying the sanctity of the mother church and killing the Avacynian Pope. And they only win by abandoning their faith and killing their godhead, Avacyn.

Not all of them, just several of the bishops and cardinals. None of the Lunarchs were, and there's nothing to imply that the lower echelons had turned either.

I think it's pretty clear most of the clergy were corrupted, including the Not!Cardinals, the Lunarchs.

1/2

So I think has a point, all be it, put rather bluntly. I think they;re moving Innistrad towards a Reformation type theme under Sigarda which will most likely include themes of secularization and diminished clergy, church, and ritual. Which I think would have been fine, or even interesting, on other planes, but not Innistrad.

Well the problem is that Innistrad was meant to be a specific time and place: a Gothic setting where humans struggle to survive amidst the darkness. And getting rid of that in favor of "modernizing" Innistrad to be more like modern America just makes it much less interesting.

We have no reason to believe Mikaeus (at least pre-reanimation) or his successors were corrupt up until the establishment of the Lunarch Council, which was just a panel of said corrupt bishops that took power after the deaths of two or three Lunarchs in rapid succession and were working for Ormendahl.

While I agree with both of you that this is the direction they're going to push Innistrad's story, there isn't some huge trend that we've been shown in the setting proper, Wizards is just predictable.

We know that there were vague hints of corruption in the church, saw one named traitor in the original block, and then in the second block we saw the treacherous elements take power after the death of the proper leader and give orders to a bunch of unknowing church soldiers. It's not as if every friar, vicar, and pastor was corrupted as user seems to be saying.

A reformation could be interesting if WotC wasn't writing it, but alas, here we are.

>It's not as if every friar, vicar, and pastor was corrupted as user seems to be saying.
Except it is. Because the source of their spiritual power was corrupted and it drenched their souls in the corruption of the tainted Avacyn. They are actually spiritually corrupt.

I think it'd be interesting if it blows up in their face and makes shit even worse

[Citation needed]?