HERO

Does Veeky Forums play HERO?

I've been playing it for years with friends and I never see anyone else ever mention it.

Other urls found in this thread:

perinatalweb.org/assets/cms/uploads/files/Hero System 5er.pdf
herogames.com/forums/files/file/367-fantasy-hero-primer/
surbrook.devermore.net/index/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Going to bump with the character designer. It's pretty in depth.

And the pdf is too big to upload.

perinatalweb.org/assets/cms/uploads/files/Hero System 5er.pdf

I own the fifth edition corebook (got it in a job lot. Surprising how light it is for such a thick book it though), never played.

I usually play weekly with friends. Probably my favorite system to use.

Another bump.

...

Big HERO fan here. Unfortunately anything that needs more than 2+2 is too complicated for Veeky Forums

Why fifth instead of sixth

got a link for the hero designer?

You bet. I think Hero is a system that is criminally underrated here on Veeky Forums.

Here are some troves.

> Hero System 6th Edition Trove
m3g4
#F!06Q2kY7I!r2JY-moVxFUGl90w6LDa2A


> Hero System 5th Edition Trove
m3g4
#F!Ym5RHIJL! Qk1NgisxONlZbCQdbNYBZg

Which Hero is best? 4th, 5th or 6th?

Somewhat a matter of taste but by and large Hero mostly improves upon itself with each edition so 6e. It's not hard to hack old rules back into it though.

Ran 2nd edition for years and years.
Good, good times.

I want to know what's so good about HERO. The book is a little intimidating (it's massive and looks quite complicated at my first glance). Could you sell it to me?

Hero 6e is thick for two main reasons. First the paper is thick and sturdy. That adds up over several hundred pages but I guarantee that you will never tear a Hero book page. Second, 6e is *loaded* with rules examples as well as rules clarifications based on years of 5e rules questions. Easily skimmed over material. For comparison let's look at a few contemporary game systems.

> Hero 6e Vols 1 & 2: 464 + 320 = 784
> GURPS 4e Vols 1 & 2: 336 + 240 = 576 pgs
> D&D 3.5e PHB, DMG, MM: 960 pgs
> Pathfinder CRB + Bestiary 1: 576 + 320 = 896 pgs
> D&D 5e PHB, DMG, MM: 320 + 320 + 352 = 992pgs

As you can see Hero 6e is comparatively lean compared to most crunchy RPGs. And again, a lot of its text is less rules and more rules examples and clarifications. I'll delve into actually selling you on Hero in a later post but I hope that this helps alleviate some concerns right off the bat.

Thanks for your reply, user. Didn't think about it like that. Looking forward to your post(s).

Because sixth is two books and even GURPs players have a limit.

I'm with this guy. I've very rarely seen this mentioned, but as a GURPS fan I'm interested in learning more about universal systems with a retarded amount of crunch. I'd love to sell me on it.

Okay, I'm back. There are two main selling points that I can think of with Hero. The first is that it is the ultimate in character customization. Hero is descended from the original "stat me" RPG: Champions which remains the superhero genre line of Hero. If you want to build it Hero can hook you up. Furthermore Hero is a "toolkit RPG" which means that you not only can use it to build characters but you can also use it to build all the myriad things you want in your campaign. How does your fantasy game's magic system work? Hero has the tools to build it how you want it. How do you like your psychic powers or starships, medieval weapons, or guns? Hero is there for you.

The second is that the system itself is a cluster of core mechanical principles which are expanded upon to be a crunchy but intuitive game with lots of options which are intriguing rather than off-putting. Where a combat maneuver in D20 might need a feat tax just make the maneuver not ass Hero character creation is so highly customizable that it only takes the player wanting to be good at anything and then paying the points to not only come out even but even actually be good by buying a net bonus.

There really is much more to be said about Hero as any fan can attest but that involves details. So I give the floor to you. Ask for specifics and I will answer them. Any fellow Herofags are of course invited to jump in and help.

By the by while GURPS is being mentioned. I sometimes wish that there was a "Grand Unified Theory" that can bond GURPS together with Hero to form a mega universal system. You know how many think GURPS is better when it's grounded and on the more realistic side? How it breaks if you dial the power level up too high? Hero is basically the opposite. It doesn't exactly "break" when you dial it down too far so much as it feels too tightly restricted to be interesting considering what it does. Hero starts getting interesting at around a "cinematic hero" power level and can be downright cosmic. I know because I run a Dragonball Z game with it.

4e was my first edition, and HERO still holds a defined place in my heart.

But for the love of fuck, it's complicated as all hell. Honestly I can't think of a worse system to introduce new players to, especially if they're not good with math. Most people without roleplaying/math experience just don't understand how the system is supposed to work intuitively, and that makes it a pain in the ass to use unless you're dealing with experienced gamers.

It's only saving grace in that regard is with Champions, because then players can say "I use my Heat Vision", and I just tell them what to roll to do that. They understand the character through the concept of the powers, but they don't usually grasp the nuts and bolts of how that power was put together.

Because of that, I usually don't play it much these days. Most of the people I game with are people I introduce to rpgs, so I'd rather pick something simpler and more intutive.

tl;dr I love it, but I don't play much anymore.

I've been playing for 23 years. I started playing with the family in kindergarten.

Much appreciated! I'll take a look when I get home.

>Honestly I can't think of a worse system to introduce new players to, especially if they're not good with math.
I picked it up at the age of 5.
I think a lot of people overestimate how complicated it is as a system.

Character generation is a bit more difficult. But I recommend that the GM be on hand for character creation in every system.

I'm not saying it's impossible to play with new people(it was my first rpg, after all). But if you want your players to understand how their character is put together and what they can do(preferable, in my book), this really isn't the best way.

Hell, in d&d it's literally just "roll this thingy and add a number to see if you got enough", whereas in champions it's "roll three thingies and add them all up and see if you got less than this number". I'd argue that it's not particularly more difficult, but it's not intuitive, which is the important part when you're introducing people to rpgs.

Rolling low for skills and high for damage is confusing. 15 STR being twice as strong as 10 STR is confusing. Buying equipment with points rather than money is confusing

It's complicated. That doesn't mean it's bad.

It's interesting after playing it for a while. It's complicated, but in a lot of ways less complex than say DnD.

4th ed was were I got my start too. I have a lot of nostalgia attached to the big blue book.

>a Hero System thread
You guys just made my week. Fuck yeah. This is my #1 system.

Hero campaigns you've played or ran. Let's see 'em.

> Superheroes
> Play-as-yourselves w/Superpowers
> Star Wars
> Fate/Nasuverse
> Dragonball Z
> Sword & Sorcery
> High Fantasy
> Rifts
> A campaign that blended 30s pulp, Bruce Lee movies, and 80s/90s action
> Samurais
> Modern Day Mercenaries
>> Same but in a space setting (think Cowboy Bebop in terms of tech and setting)

There's sure to be more if I took time to remember more.

Is there any premade adventures or characters that one can get started with? I'd feel more comfortable trying this system out if such a thing exists. I figure I might roll with 6th.

A lot of the books come with pre-made characters, iirc, and there's got to be at least one adventure tucked in there somewhere. Check the trove.

So as a Runequest and GURPSfag that has to handhold 5e D&D players and is curious about HERO:

If I wanted to get my mongoloids in motion with HERO, what would I do? GURPS has GURPSlite, which I can tack a 3 page setting / guideline document onto and have a game. Can HERO give that in some form or fashion?

Fellow GURPS player here. HERO does have something similar. It's a free "lite" version which is pretty close to GURPS lite in length, but the rules and concepts are very slimmed down.

See PDF for a "full" representation of actual mechanics from the game. It's longer but still intended as an introductory document.

I like the idea of customisation. Does it give you any starting points, example magic systems etc to start with to show you how it's done?
How quick is character creation (for new and experienced players) and how much bookkeeping is needed for a GM running a HERO adventure?

I've been running HERO since May of 1983. I've written campaign books and stuff. It's fun.

>Hero campaigns you've played or ran. Let's see 'em.

Here's a list of my HERO campaign books

Caleon (Steampunk High Fantasy)
Deniable Assets (Cyberpunk)
Ravenna (Urban Fantasy)
Gamma Terra (Post Apoc)
Mycenae (Ancient Greece)
2600CE (Spaaaaaace)
Meta-Earth (Supers)
Maelstrom (Multi-Genre Weirdness)
Raiden Z (Mecha)

I've introduced a legion of first-time gamers to it. Some have compared it to the Principia Mathematica, others have really enjoyed the complexity. I just like the modularity and the ability to create anything and have it be (relatively) balanced against everything else.

Most of my games are 200 pts. I have a light Supers setting that starts at 250. Needs work.

bamp

Can Hero be used for genuinely realistic shit or only high fantasy/super hero/action hero kind of stuff

Ive been GMing for 20+ years and I literally just heard about HERO yesterday at one of my games.Care to give me the elevator pitch?

You *can* go realistic but that involves either adding penalties for doing more pulpy/cinematic stuff or else more homogenous stats. That said, Killing Attacks turn deadly *fast* with Hit Locations and no Resistant Defenses.

> (You)
>I like the idea of customisation. Does it give you any starting points, example magic systems etc to start with to show you how it's done?
>How quick is character creation (for new and experienced players) and how much bookkeeping is needed for a GM running a HERO adventure?

> Starting Points
You bet. It recommends starting totals ranging from Normals to Heroes to Superheroes at different levels.

> Example magic systems
The core rules provide sample Power builds but no full magic systems. However, both Fantasy Hero books provided in the Troves provide sample magic systems as well as detailed method for designing one for yourself.

> Character creation speed
Depends on how many points you have, how much your character is Power-based, and how complex you build those powers. The more of that which applies to your character the slower it gets. Hero has a way of getting you into a "tinkering" mood. There is character creation software which speeds it up a bit though and you eventually become well-versed in making characters that it's not a big deal.

> Bookkeeping
There's a bit of bookkeeping on a player basis as you generally track three different resources so it compounds as a GM.

Can I play as a gold painted robot with horns that can hack anything and has two drone companions that follow him, with a snub-nosed revolver in his hand? Because I'm very curious about this system now.

Oh, and that can also turn invisible? And repairs himself and regrows limbs by eating metal, oil, grease and other stuff used in machines?

Compared to GURPS, how does HERO's firearm combat work? From my understanding, it's not exactly the focus of the system, but I'm interested anyways.

actually yes,the core champions book has all of those things,Although most GM's don't allow mechanical characters because of all the bonuses they get.

Awww... But robots are the coolest kind of characters, at least to me. Well, when they get to look cool that is. Well. Maybe I can still make something, looking through that pdf posted earlier right now. Thanks for answering.

You can still be a robot just don't expect all the fancy stuff like takes no STUN

Androids from Star HERO work very well.

So would HERO work for a sort of star wars meets guardians of the galaxy space opera campaign?

Not sure my GM never did vehicle combat but it works great for super Hero Stuff

So why isn't HERO as popular as Gurps? You almost never see it mentioned

I think Hero is a bit too robust for most people. That said, most of the deeper, more simulationist aspects of it are presented in the rulebook as optional. I always start small when introducing players to it, working in the deeper rules one-by-one across several sessions until people are comfortable. But I can imagine the usual fa/tg/uy wouldn't see that versatility at first glance.

Because HERO didn't get into the generic game space until 4e, and the generic rulebook for that wasn't published until 2001 (and looks like something from, say, 1985). Before that it was just Champions. It's also never had a huge amount of genre splatbooks. 5e only has seven including both versions of Champions (Champions, Dark Champions, Star Hero, Fantasy Hero, Urban Fantasy Hero, Pulp Hero, and Post-Apocalyptic Hero). Also, no first-party licensed settings. Traveller Hero is Avenger Enterprises, Autoduel Champions is SJG.

Compare that with GURPS, which has approaching 40 licensed settings and probably at least 100 different genre splatbooks (I'm not counting 500 items to see, fuck that). Also consider that SJG ran its own magazines that it could advertise in, while DoJ is a literally who company.

Hero mechanically improves with each edition, but does so at the expense of word count. 4th ed is a beautiful sweet spot between complexity and comprehensiveness, and is also written a lot more entertainingly than 5th or 6th. 5th ed clarified many things, and 5th ed revised (which just folded in all the errata and huge FAQs) made it even clearer, but was written in a lot dryer a fashion. 5th in general has the best book support; one of the things that helped kill Hero is that 6th changed just enough to annoy the grogs, without making anywhere near enough changes to justify re-releasing pretty much any of the 5th ed books (and by the end of 5th, pretty much everything worth releasing had been released).

General answer: it's a matter of taste. The rules are largely the same.

Very easy for gritty stuff. It's deliberately modular in places. Adding in hit locations and the bleeding rules, drop cinematic knockback, and make sure to track Endurance and you have a gritty as fuck game where people are tiring out even as they're bleeding out.

I use it for Conanesque low fantasy and also as a substitute for the very low-tech Battletech RPG and I love it for both (even if I don't get quite as hardcore as I describe is possible).

This was written recently on the Hero forums specifically to introduce people to Hero fantasy. It's not a comprehensive rules primer; more of a conceptual "hey, here's what you can do".

herogames.com/forums/files/file/367-fantasy-hero-primer/

It's a quick 28-page thing that walks you through a fantasy combat and stuff.

Can it do Wuxia/Tienxia? I want to basically do Exalted in space

Some of Hero's best books are martial arts books. Aaron Allston himself wrote Ninja Hero, a 4th edition book which was very well received for just focusing entirely on a martial-artist based campaign. There's a genre overview book (4th or 5th edition), a Martial Arts book (4th, 5th, or 6th), and two bestiaries just devoted to a variety of Asian monsters (5th ed). That's a lot of support from Hero for any one thing, since being a generic game it doesn't tend to do the 4-million splatbook thing for any one topic. So while I've never done it myself, I'd say yeah, it would do it fine (again, assuming you like crunch).

>herogames.com/forums/files/file/367-fantasy-hero-primer/
>Sorry, you don't have permission for that!

you probably need to register and log in to see it

I'm trying to post a link but the fucking "your post is spam" warning keeps coming up.

I'll upload my 5th ed character creator. It's the only version I have, been playing it for years.
Mega
#!YfB1BSaB!YkzmjNsMfLnAIOdev02fz_2GoQrR42TrG4Cf1cPmyjA

As a GM I usually run with a lot of limitations, or you end up with players making characters with 100 strength who can one shot everything.

I'll post my last campaign's limits as an example. Stats and attacks
Stat maximum: 25
Max Killing attack dmg: 2d6 (applies to any dmg power with a 15:1 point ratio)
Max Normal attack dmg: 6d6 (applies to any dmg power with a 5:1 point ratio)
Max Drain dmg: 3d6 (applies to any dmg power with a 10:1 point ratio)
Max OCV/DCV/ECV: 10
Max Speed: 4
Max Endurance/Stun: 150 (does not include end reserve or powers that increase stun)
Max Recovery:30 (for standard endurance not for endurance reserves or powers that effect stun)
Max movement: 32" hexes

Defenses
Max Physical Def (PD): 12
Max Energy Def (ED): 12
Max Resistant PD: 4
Max Resistant ED: 4
Max Power DEF: 6
Max Mental DEF: 12
Max Flash DEF: No cap.

And that is with 230 base points/ up to 25 points of disadvantages.

And if the designer doesn't work, I'm pretty sure it requires java. Been awhile, so I can't say for sure.

>Dragonball Z
Share. You never hear of DBZ quests

Hero is about as complicated or easy as you want to make it. You can do pretty much anything with it, Tolkien-esque adventures, steampunk, modern, future, or whatever you can think of. Surprisingly easy to learn, especially from how huge the book is.

Obfuscate it! l33t speak, etc. Or use a link-shortening site like snip.

Not that guy, but strength and all stats can get a bit absurd.

I'd caveat that by saying the base mechanics are really easy: if you can do 4th grade math, you can handle Hero. HOWEVER, as a universal system designed to let you do anything, it has a lot of rules to make that possible, and you'll need to spend a decent amount of time poring over the book because after the basic attack, defense, and movement powers there's a lot of stuff left, some of it not entirely intuitive (not because of a failing of the rules, but because they're trying to let you accomplish various weird things). You'll spend a decent amount of time at the start going "I'm sure I can do this, but I just need to figure out how..." In other words, a base understanding is easy, but deeper understanding will take a while.

Once you appreciate that all the verbiage is there to let you do a trillion different things though, the ruleset becomes a lot less intimidating, because then you realize that you don't need the vast majority of it to run whatever it is you have in mind at any one time (unless you're running a comic book game / Rifts, which are gonzo-as-fuck settings where a cowboy cyber-magician from Planet X with psionics and a were-tarantula familiar is a perfectly normal thing and so you might actually need all those rules for a single campaign after all).

The file is at filedropper. Just put in that address, but after the .com part, add /fantasyheroprimer. Hopefully that works.

Thank you.

While they had started with Champions, by 1987 they had Fantasy HERO, Star HERO, Justice Inc, Danger International, and Robot Warriors.

The Generic Book was published in 1990 to bring all of those books together, and they still produced genre books afterward.

What killed its popularity was the ICE fiasco that promised full support in Shadow World and never delivered. (That and GURPS was always more accessible) After ICE, things just sucked for years. It was with the publication of 5E in 2001 that brought it back, but the player base had dwindled to probably me and five other people.

>What killed its popularity was the ICE fiasco that promised full support in Shadow World and never delivered.
What happened? Could you elaborate?

Show them this to get it clear just how simple actually playing is.

I'll... try to later. Story, mechanics, both?

As a DnDfag this looks really interesting, I'll definitely try it out.

For D&D players, I think it would appeal more to guys who like 3rd and 4th ed (maybe 5th, but I don't know that one). Hero combat can be really tactical, which some guys like and others find too time-consuming to be worth it. It works well with a playing map, though it's not necessary. The thing I really like about Fantasy Hero is making custom spell systems and generally being free of class limits.

bump

If you want examples of hundreds of character builds, try this site:


surbrook.devermore.net/index/

Say, theoretically talking... how much damage would you need to shatter an entire planet in the HERO System?

is this the official symbol for ''my sides are in orbit''?

>Honestly I can't think of a worse system to introduce new players to, especially if they're not good with math.

If you aren't good with math, you aren't smart enough to play RPGs in the first place. There's no excuse for not being good with math up through at least parametric equations.

Would probably depend on context of the attack. If you're making an attack with the purpose of shattering a world, you could definitely do it. If you're creative, you can do pretty much anything.

In January 1986, Hero Games made an arrangement with Iron Crown Enterprises, publishers of Rolemaster and MERP. Initially this was only to handle the game production and distribution, leaving creative tasks to Hero Games, but in 1987 ICE also took over editorial. They published Shadow World, promising full stats, spells and monsters, but never actually did this. They'd give a Characteristic line, no abilities or spells, or fail to add any FH content at all. Any review of a SW book from those days will mention this.

On April 25, 1996, ICE's role handling publishing and distribution was taken over by R. Talsorian Games, just before Iron Crown itself suffered financial difficulties in 1997. During this period, Bruce Harlick, who had been the first official hire of Hero Games in 1982, continued in his role as Line Developer. This collaboration also resulted in the Fuzion system, which was successful in itself, but an attempt to publish the Champions game under the new system as Champions sucked.

>They'd give a Characteristic line, no abilities or spells, or fail to add any FH content at all. Any review of a SW book from those days will mention this.
So they basically put in half-completed stat blocks? How shoddy.

>games I have ran

>D&D all versions - low and high/epic lvl.
>Vampire the Masquerade
>Naruto d20
>Vampires (masquerade, dark ages)
>Superheroes in space. (Using d10 homebrew)
>More D&D 5e this time
>Superheroes in space (d10)
>D&D grindhouse
>Superheroes in space (Same system as before)
>Naruto d10
>D&D (homebrew made to feel like an MMO like wow with raids/bosses/loot drops)
>Vampire Dark Ages
>Marvel Cinematic Universe superheroes (d10) (current game)

>15 years of my life.

Fuck... forgot

>Starwars d20
>Star wars fantasy flight

I forget exactly how much damage but an Earth-size planet is given the DEF+BODY necessary for destruction in Star Hero IIRC. Once you have those numbers you just need to build a MegaScaled, Area of Effect Radius Blast or Killing Attack (Ranged) which can at least do 1 BODY more than the DEF per attack.

> Hero campaigns

GURPS player here. HERO looks awesome.

One thing, though: there appear to be VERY few rules sections I've found addressing social skills and challenges, etc., basically anything outside of combat. The most detail about social stuff and other noncombat stuff appears to be compartmentalized under each relevant skill, but obviously those descriptions don't do much elaboration beyond the most basic mechanical contest descriptions and some modifiers.

Would HERO be unsuited to a more social or political game? Are these rules left intentionally vague so the GM and players can decide what they want for the game?

Could use some more elucidation IMO, the rules look great otherwise but it sort of bugs me how every single rules block (except Complications) seems to revolve around combat or hitting people aside from those few skill descriptions themselves...
Not that you couldn't deal with this simply through play, but I consider those noncombat rules and guidelines to be pretty powerful tools in GURPS.

There's quite a few social skills actually, as well as stats that improve upon them. If you're making a politician, for example, you could give the character a lot of presence so they're noticeable as soon as they enter the room. Ego can make them more intimidating to those with a lower Ego stat. A character with 0 ego actually has to make a roll to determine if they're even able to take an action, and a character with negative ego essentially obeys any order given to them. As far as skills go, me and anyone else who runs the game will make a player roll a stat and depending on how much they beat their roll by, the better it goes. There's actually a lot of stats and skills and multiple ways for someone to play a very social character in Hero.

Thanks for the reply, and the character example. Yeah, I looked through the skill list and there are certainly a decent number of social skills that seem to support a broad variety of actions; I suppose I was just hoping there was some kind of HERO equivalent of Social Engineering or something about running kingdoms or something.
Not that such a thing couldn't be done with HERO as-is, but it'd be nice if there were some supplement expanding on combat-light campaigns in some context.

One thing I never understood is how a character with high EGO and low PRE would behave.

Strong, quiet type for example.

It does gritty really well with optional hit locations and bleeding.
Played street level dark champions and zombie survival, it did both really well.

Think Yoda. Small and unimpressive doesn't mean weak willed.

HEROic bump

What games are people currently playing/running?

Anyone have character write ups they want to share? Having a database of Veeky Forums made stuff would be cool.

Hero is one of a few books I got from my uncle as a child that I absolutely pored over, learning as much about it as I could and making all sorts of characters. Unfortunately I was never able to find or make an actual game or campaign, though he'd run me through little bits of encounters whenever he visited. Even more unfortunately, both books he gave me (and his entire KotDT collection) were lost in a very messy move I went through about 10 years ago.

I guess I don't really have a point to this, just wanted to share a sad story with some folks who'd understand the loss. It'd be nice to check it out again, I'll be looking through these links.

Is it possible to make this magnificent bastard?

>Taskmaster injected himself with SS-Hauptsturmführer Horst Gorscht's primer, an elaborate modification of the adrenal steroid cortisol designed to unlock the mind's procedural memory potential. The Taskmaster thus gained the ability to absorb knowledge instantaneously. This ability is linked to his muscle memory, allowing the Taskmaster to instantly replicate the physical movement of peak-level humans. Using these "photographic reflexes", the Taskmaster is highly skilled in various forms of combat, as an exceptional martial artist (mimicking Elektra, Iron Fist, Shang-Chi), a skilled swordsman (Black Knight, Silver Samurai, Swordsman), a deadly accurate marksman (Captain America with a shield, Hawkeye with a bow and arrow, Punisher with firearms, and Bullseye with various projectiles) as well as displaying a strenuously honed athletic ability (Black Panther, Daredevil). Once the Taskmaster has mastered an opponent's physical movements, he can then predict his opponent's next attack. A side effect of the primer is severe declarative memory loss. The more implicit memories (i.e. knowledge and abilities) he learns, the more explicit memories (i.e. personal experience) he loses. Because of his explicit memory loss, the Org (Mercedes Merced) has acted as Taskmaster's surrogate memory, his banker, and his handler for his entire criminal career.

>By viewing a video in fast-forward, the Taskmaster can learn to replicate human movement at near-superhuman speed. However, this puts his body under intense strain and can only be used for short periods of time. He also has the ability to manipulate his vocal cords to mimic the voices of others.