Young, Bright-Eyed, Aspiring Villains

The "Could your PC work out as a villain?" thread brought up the amusing idea of the young, bright-eyed, aspiring villain.

The aspiring villain is sort of like a Disney Hero or Princess in reverse: they are a character who wants very, very badly to be evil, but pursues their wicked goals with the same enthusiasm, optimism and light-heartedness as their heroic counterparts.

They grew up idolizing the great evil overlords of the past, hoping and dreaming to someday achieve the same levels of comically hammy infamy, singing stirring, heartfelt songs about their villainous desires while trying to make every encounter more dramatic.

What sort of aspiring villains might exist, based on this idea, and what sort of "Bizarro Disney" setting would arise from these characters being the protagonists?

Isn't this chick from a series of images where she rapes a dude while giving him hallucinations that he's the dominant one in the relationship?

I actually tried this concept ones. Pic related was the result.
I think trying it again, simply because inefficient wannabe villains are so much fun.

I'm reminded of Eva Ibbottson's "The Worst Witch," a young adult book I read in middle school. An "evil" wizard is looking for a wife, and there's a witch who wants to be evil but can only perform white magic.

Fuck, it was "Which Witch?" Long time ago.

Why is Tomoko dressed like that?

She does look kind of similar. It's fitting considering Tomoko is absolutely the kind of freak that would do what described.

That was one amazing character they used way to little in that show.

The concept is amazing. Probably going to steal it for my m&m game

Thinking about it, Tomoko's character would make a pretty good basis for this type of light-hearted, ineffectual, aspiring villain.

The Worst Witch was the one that Rowling "borrowed" extremely heavy from to make Harry Potter.

Wasnt Martina kinda like this? It has been an eternity since I watched Slayers.

Sounds fucking wonderful.

Indeed.

Sooo... Gwenpool then?

Yup, that's her.

She ain't Tomoko, that's actually Kugasari

>Sings a huge, heartfelt musical number in the center of the town square about how she'll eventually conquer the world and rule over all the townsfolk in this little burg.

>The townsfolk just ignore her or treat her as the village idiot, like they do with Belle in the opening song in Beauty and the Beast.

I want a Kugasari in my life.

No you don't, it's all fun and games until she's sticks a finger up your ass

That's still fun.

>said by someone who's never had a finger up their ass

Then its twice the fun and games.

It's still fun with lube

Hey, I was agreeing with you.

I wish I could post the immediate followup to this which reveals it's all a hallucination and he's the one being manhandled.

>Only ever reaches lowercase-v levels of villainy, and develops a "tsundere" relationship with the forces of goodness.

>She totally doesn't want to save the world or any of that... yuck... heroic stuff... but if the world get destroyed, then how would she conquer it? Right?

So what you want to play is pic related, yes?

>"tsundere"
why not "yandere"

Because the two have different connotations. Tsundere because, while she does have a villainous side that she presents to the world, she also has a tiny bit of heroism in her that she tries her best to downplay.

Or maybe I've misunderstood things.

Sorry, wrong response, meant

>she

I dunno if Kilgore is the type of character you want around too much. He's funny in his episodes, but his entire gimmick is yelling his name really loudly.

He'd be really easy to overuse.

Or Megumin. Or combine Tomoko and Megumin.

I did this with a Necron Lord who litreally has the quirk of him being a Farmer whos really fucking sick of people treading on his corn field. Best part of him his Dynasty has the ability to remember there past and has there emotions still. The party through each of there encounters have slowly become semi friendly and actively talk and trade.

In the end he's given up on being a cock and settled down and went back to being that weird necron were friends with.

>Not posting the english version

So are you gonna post a sauce on that, or...?

It's in the image name.

kugasari

...

Good taste right there.

user who made the comment in the last thread

the best way to do them is to have them follow the usual developments "the bright eyed hero" gets
>start young, inexperienced and idealistic
>adventure
>experience hardship
>ideals tested, naivete and foolishness chipped away
>become glorious

the whole appeal is this oxymoron of innocent evil that only works while they are either stupid or young enough to not understand the implications, its no fun having that starry eyed ball of fluff and malice actually become a serious BBEG. so you ether have them become the villain in the kind of setting where enemies have googly eyes and the villain is mad over not being invited to chess or you have them become disillusioned with villainy for whatever reason (not cinematic enough, not "pure evil" enough .etc)

I found it. Thank you friend.

Doesn't he actually succeed at the end, though?

I dunno, I stopped watching after an episode. That shit is literal trash tier meme shit.

This is actually a really good example. Perhaps a prime example: wide-eyed and idealistic, idolized supervillains, constant comical failures, SONGS and is villainous but not too villainous.

You make some really good points, and I like the first outcome, along with a version of the second outcome where the wanna-be villain is confronted by some seriously vile Big-E Evil, which they must then fight alongside the heroes so that their dream of dramatic, romanticized, fictional villainy can live.

>"But... That's not how the story is supposed to go...!!! You're supposed to... You're... supposed to..."

>its no fun having that starry eyed ball of fluff and malice actually become a serious BBEG

Why not? Have something really shitty happen to them, develop tragedy in the character.

He does succeed in his goals of putting Captain Hammer in his place and proving that he was villainous enough to join the Evil League of Evil, but it came at a terrible personal cost that soured his victory and killed his spirit.

That's an outcome we'd probably want to avoid ourselves.

because i feel like that would ruin the archetype/subversion, theres certainly room for a "villain in development" to mirror the hero- see Tomura Shigaraki from BNHA. but its a different thing

the "starry eyed villain" is a somewhat comedic look at the idolization of villains and bad guys

the "villain in development" is a more serious and grounded look at what the hero could be if they were evil/ were in different circumstances. now this isnt to say there cant be some overlap depending on the tone of the campaign/setting but i would say that they are different approaches to creating an antagonist/character that mirrors the heroes and should remain such- separate

but this is ultimately just my opinion and nothing more

He did. Penny was all it cost him.

I think you're right. The original concept of the starry-eyed wannabe-villain is an inherently silly one that relies either on a naive and innocent view of villainy, or a setting that is sufficiently full of dark-humor that their evil acts can be made funny.

Not to shill, but the web serial A Practical Guide to Evil has a fairly effective antagonist like that. The entire universe is based on archetypes. There are evil kingdoms and good ones, heroes and villains that gain powers based on ambition. At the beginning of the story, the local evil kingdom has been taken over by a group of genre-savvy villains that rule efficiently. The main antagonist wants to overthrow them to bring back the days of over the top, sacrifice a town to make a flying tower villainy.

What he really wanted was the girl, not recognition as a villain. He became a famous villain, but he killed the girl. He is unambiguously dead inside at the end of the story.

Yeah, you're right - the subversion would be a lot more fun to play.

Right? It's less about making a character that's an actual villain and more about making a character that wants to be what they think a villain ought to be.

>Dramatic entrances!
>Chewing scenery!
>Plots and schemes!
>Rivals and nemesis!
>Grandiose threats!
>Defeating do-gooders!

What if...the villain wannabee sees the villain as a hero, as all good villains sees themselves, but is clueless about the hypocrisies/eccentricities involved?

Like the villain is a complicated freedom fighter/ideological whatever with a grudge against society. The wannabe is like a kid who grew up in the fantasy/scifi equivalent of a Hamas training camp without any trace of irony, watching jihadist Barnie starring the villain, who grew up in a society opposed to him and who is aware of the moral complexities in a way the wannabee never will be.

thats a possible angle, though i always imagined it as "dejected outcast idealizes villain due to them being what they want to be (strong, "brave", famous, sucessful etc) while also being outcast and dejected by said society"

like a little girl witch who wants to be just like darkskull the ravager since he was also laughed at by all the priests, but look at him now!

That could work very well, especially if the Wannabe is the Villain's child, younger relative or apprentice, who doesn't understand the complexity of things and just wants to be like their hero.

Latching onto villainous role-models because the heroic ones reject you is another great motivation.

>heroic ones reject you
its not necessarily even a failure on the heroes side, but imagine you are in a situation where it seems that society or those society favors are against you- naturally those who go against it would seem like heroic or admirable people, while those who protect and serve it would seem like false idols and unjust

it doesent matter that said heroes would almost certainly help said outcast if they were aware of it, theres always someone they cant see and therefore help

>"They'll see! They'll ALL see!!!"

"STOP LAUGHING, I AM EVIL"

Hi

Or just make her Dr. Horrible with a vagina.

basically this, helps that OPM is cartoonish enough to allow it

>She returns to her "lair" on the outskirts of town after her "epic battle" with the grocer and spends the rest of the night "plotting his demise" between sobs.

>Why can't she just set people on fire like Melfy the Burninator did? Melfy was so cool... Why can't she do magic yet? Why can't she be more like Melfy?

A good place to insert a devil with a deal. Either the small and comic one or the great and really horrible one but polite.

What's the sauce boss?

not for this kind of character, although maybe the small and mischievous kind- or the unwilling but really strong one

but really this is the point where she nicks a local relic and goes adventuring

So, Megamind?

two kick lady

She could get a boatload of "well-meaning" but somewhat incompetent minor demons clamoring to help her, like that artist Endling's character Ree.

I think that Worm (specifically, Worm fanfiction) lends itself great to this.

I mean, the longer this thread goes, the more it describes The Techno Queen, a fun and kinda cracky fanfic where the main character becomes a scenery chewing villain instead of......... whatever the hell you'd describe Taylor as.

Also, Doctor Dire (in the Dire Worm fic on spacebattles and also in her own novel series which I can't remember the name of on amazon) is pretty much this grown up.

You must be fun at parties

Thanks user

You could combine these two and throw them in a 90's antihero setting, where they hunt down the gray "heroic" butchers and reform them into henchmen with class and style, or at least get them to lighten up a little. Like when Harley Quinn gets a comic focus and isn't a clown hooker.

This gimmick would slot really well in a Thunderbolts/Suicide Squad kind of story too, where the starry-eyed villain is the moral core of the group, but hides it with camp.

Disgaea has this by the truckloads.

>The starry-eyed villain joins an adventuring party of heroes in order to gain power and send the world into a sense of false security, and also because all the best villains started as heroes and then betrayed all the do-gooders and turned to the Darker Powers
>She tries to hide her black magic really badly, and keeps maniacally giggling as she imagines how she'll betray the party when the time comes and slaughter the weaklings who were foolish enough to trust her, just like Murderaxe Rapeyface the Defiler of Souls did
>As she grows closer to the heroes she makes excuses for not having betrayed them yet and says she'll get round to it eventually, as soon as this weird warm fuzzy feeling goes away

It was straight up the plot to D3 (the one with Mao), wasn't it? Deco was a Final Boss in Training, too.

Although Nippon Ichi likes going the other way, where the holy hero ends up being too focused on demons and becomes one. Like Flonne and Prier.

>terrible at hiding her intentions, has kiddie diary (painted black and with "evil talismans" of course) detailing all her plans
>constantly reffers to herself as the villain name she wants, but cant stick to one since she keeps changing her mind
>never had friends before so acts really happy, despite reffering to them as either "foolish heroes" or "minions"
>constantly talks about how cool certain villains are and how she wants to be just like them

>summons her first zombie successfully
>gets really excited and starts yelling for all the others to come see, then realises what she's done
>cue the zombie wearing a crappy disguise and her pretending she didn't say anything

>"th-this is my friend, his name? its uh zomb-ian, yes! zombian MCtotalyalive"
>"talk to him? uh, hes very tired so hes asleep right now, he sleeps standing up- now lest go before we wake him"

>unambiguously
The last shot is literally him back in his basement, alone, looking like Billy (not even pre-League Dr. Horrible, IIRC), and absolutely crushed. If that's what you call "unambiguous," you're wrong.

>unambiguous
>not ambiguous
>obvious/blatant
thats exactly what it means

>not for this kind of character
No, it's EXACTLY this kind of character. You're seriously telling me an innocent naïve type character with this who wants to accomplish some evil shit but lacks the ability is the WRONG target for some seductive demon to come along with some powers and a contract to sign? You have this exactly backwards

>You're seriously telling me an innocent naïve type character with this who wants to accomplish some evil shit but lacks the ability is the WRONG target for some seductive demon to come along with some powers and a contract to sign?
you're missing the point- the "starry eyed hero/villain" dont exist in the kind of world where demons go and make punishing contracts or masterful schemes to steal your soul- they exist in that cartoonish world where if you insult the giant too much hes going to go home and cry himself to sleep

naturally in a darker setting that idealism is exploited- but thats not the point, in that darker setting you dont get comedic antics or disney songs, and the only kind of idealism allowed is bitter determination and steeled resolve

Then it's wrong, because "ambiguous" means to have a possible double meaning, or two interpretations. That's what the "bi" is for.
Now, the last shot is a smash cut from full-blown capital-E Evil Dr. Horrible, looking triumphant, to Billy, looking defeated. Although Billy looks defeated, the fact that the show ends on him finishing Dr. Horrible's line suggests that he's still in there somehow, i.e., that he's not "dead inside."
In any case, that's two personas, two things, two possible "actual" states of Billy's/Dr. Horrible's mind. Ambiguous.

>"Okay everyone, once we reach the orphanage we're going to---"

>"BURN IT TO THE GROUND!!!"

>"Zebella...?"

>"NOT BUR-err... not... burn it to the ground...!"

>"We're going to take the orphans out on a field trip."

>"A field trip? I never got to go on any field trips when I was an orphan."

>"Oh...?"

>"Maybe because the orphanage burned down..."

>"O-oh...?"

>"Melfy the Burninator's so cool."

Oh. Well, in that case, you mean the SETTING'S off, or the tone, not the character.

>naturally in a darker setting that idealism is exploited- but thats not the point, in that darker setting you dont get comedic antics or disney songs, and the only kind of idealism allowed is bitter determination and steeled resolve
Eh, I don't really think that's necessarily true. You can have Disney songs and comic relief alongside stuff like demonic temptation if you want to. I mean, not to excuse the gargoyles, but is "Hellfire" not a Disney song anymore?

>"Fire! Fire! Fire!"

The idea is that the starry eyed villain (who is essentially a good, if edgy, teen girl) does *not* end up morally reprehensible. The Faustian bargain is used to tempt people into sin, not make a sinner cross a line with the audience.

The gimmick here is "rebellious phase" not "descent into depravity".

Eh, I guess I was sort of on with the idea of making them an actual villain. What I think is relevant to the whole "demonic temptation" thing is that their mindset doesn't necessarily even have to change. They wanted the power to do reprehensible things, and the demon gives them that power, and unless they were just fucking around before they would proceed to do reprehensible things.

Whether or not they decide they LIKE doing these things, though, is still out there. Which is where you could have the grounds for a heel-turn into the kind of good, but edgy girl you might already be thinking of. I dunno man, I guess I'm just saying that this idea as a germ has a lot of potential in a bunch of different directions.

If you wanted to go a shade more serious with the premise later innings game, it might be interesting if they made smthat sorting Faustian bargain without reading the fine print or realt understanding what Big-E Evil
Really meant. Maybe the rest of the party has to help them get their soul back, or stop events they'd set in motion that they now regret.

I do love the idea of the comically idealistic, completely missing the point villian-wannabe though.

i think that a situation where actually big E evil things happen would be against the spirit

the point is that for all their talk of being evil and burning orphanages and raising the dead- they dont actually have it in them to be vile to others (hence the naive idealism angle)

so if the demon is similarly mischievous but not evil (say an imp or some such) that could work, but a properly evil demon is too dark for the idea. some kind of "ancient power" that while EVIL doesn't care enough to act but is bound with (insert mcguffin) here could work tho

Megamind is great.
>Presentation!

Imps can be a lot of fun, or perhaps she's managed to make a pact with some legendarily evil being from the distant past, one that several of her heroes called upon to help cut wide and bloody swathes across the continent, only to discover that its mellowed out CONSIDERABLY in its retirement and really can't be bothered to empower her to be anything more than a modest nuisance.

...

The other option is that one day she actually does meet the Dark Lord, and hasn't yet come to terms with the fact that true evil isn't what she thought it would be. Knowing this, the Dark Lord exploits her weakness and turns her on her allies, resulting in their capture or retreat - after all, he can't kill them in front of her yet. She becomes his apprentice for a while, before she is eventually instructed to kill her former party, resulting in her either pulling a Darth Vader at the end of episode 6 or a Darth Vader at the end of episode 3.

>only to discover that its mellowed out CONSIDERABLY in its retirement and really can't be bothered to empower her to be anything more than a modest nuisance.
even better if its old and crotchety and fond of DRAMA and CINEMATIC and really cant understand her small scale demans

>"mortal, you have summoned me THE MIGHTY LORD DESTROYER what is your command? "
>"can you go and steal jenny mcsmiths hat?"
>"you summon the lord of darkness to steal hats?"
>"yes, BECAUSE IM EVIL"

this too

Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I posted that in the first place. It's definitely more dramatic than the "comic relief" faux-evil character, for better or for worse