/HHG/ Horus Heresy General

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>Official HH 7th Edition Errata (not updated since January 2016)
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>30k TACTICA & TIPS
What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more
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>/HHG/'s Legion demographics
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First for Sailor Mor.

>just about to create the new general
>someone else is already on the job

Excellent, now we all can discuss why the Night Lords are such jobbing idiots and if the Emperor created them to serve solely as laughingstock.

reposting from other threat:

So I bought this guy on a whim, looks like I might be starting an Iron Warriors army!
any CnC would be nice
are there any plans for 30k to be adapted to the new edition? I only play with a few people and none of them have HH armies so I was thinking about calling my army a group of loyalists who fought in the heresy and through warp shenanigans ended up in the current era

Judge-Dredd-meets-deniable-atrocities were always cool. The problem is that BL fucking suck at giving Curze character.

>are there any plans for 30k to be adapted to the new edition?
Not right now, but there are unofficial efforts in various forums here and there. You'll probably have to squeeze your force into the 8th ed. Chaos Space Marines codex, using the FW index for Heresy-era vehicles.

The model looks good. If you're getting into IW, try oil washes, it'll change your life.

Clean up your paintjob and don't bother writing any fluff to explain why your plastic toys are fighting other plastic toys. FW isn't planning on updating their rules to 8th since the studio is in shambles.

...

Welcome my iron brother. It looks decent, might need a highlight on the skin and a bit of touch up on the front hazad stripes.

We're in for a long wait until HH are in 8th, I'm afraid.

Oil washes eh? Which ones are good?

I hope at some points we get Legio Astorum aka Warp Runners. Legion of teleporting titans from Lucius.

I'd paint WE if white wasn't such a bitch to paint.
Also what's the op image referencing?

Why not just use the models? I use my 30k models in 40k without any fluff justification.

This
I know a guy who plays loyalist WE in 40k. He adapts the rules into 8th, no one really cares enough to stop him or bitch.

White is easy to paint as long as you start with a white undercoat and just pinwash the recesses.

If you paint white with a black undercoat you're gonna have a baad time.

The time that Autek Mor weaponised a moon and threw it at a WE recruiting world.
> HH6 best fluff

I base all my model with black. I should probably get a white spray, I guess.

Does anyone know when there will be 8th edition rules for the new/upcoming Custodes stuff?

but fluff is fun ?

I've been running my Alphas as CSM in 8th just to get some damned games in with them. Lucky me that Alpha Legion is one legion that can easily get away with having no spikey bitz and lots of uncorrupted ancient tech

>loyalists
>loyalist

Why? Wouldn't CSM rules work way better for them, both thematically and rules wise?

As I'm building my army, I tend to keep 40k rules (mainly unit compositions and options) in mind so I can make the most out of the models in both games.

WIP Solars. Left is nuln only, right is abby black with nuln wash. I'm thinking I'll go right, but what do you think hhg?

Just buy artist's spirits at an art supply store (less smelly than hardware store spirits) and three oil paints: black, some sort of dark brown, and a bunrt umber sort of color.

Basecoat your mini, maybe do some rough highlights, then gloss varnish. Get an inexpensive or old brush and shade it with the brown or a mix of those paints (diluted with spirits). Dab some on and it should seep around rivets and into crevasses. They take like a full day to dry, so they're very forgiving. Remove the excess after an hour or so with a q-tip. On vehicles, dab on some burnt umber at rivets and hatch edges and pull downward for oil or rust streaks.

Some people lay them on very thick, let them dry a bit, then wipe them off with a rag, buffing the model at the same time. The Warhounds on Battle Bunnies are done that way, I think.

You could start with a black undercoat, then spray white primer over it but only from the top, give or take 45 degrees. That gives you some zenithal highlighting. Then basecoat with Ulthuan Gray or something similar - a light gray, basically. That one is a cool gray (has some blue in it); if you want warm, use a khaki or ivory. Where it goes over black, it'll still look dark. Highlight with pure white.

Using anything lighter as your base color ends up looking cartoony.

Custodes get all the attention. Does anyone use Sisters of Silence here? They look grand.

> Prosecutors are basically Tacticals but trade S4/T4 for anti-psyker and Mutable Tactics
> I4 AP2 S4 PE melee for 12pts hot diggedy damn
> Literal units of 18pt A2 Power Axes, Ass2 Snipers and Grenade Launchers
> DT is an upgunned Predator that also sneaks and has a fucking Assault Ramp

They seem absolutely incredible and super easy to slot in as Allies.
Why are Custodes hogging all the spotlight?
I'm aware that they lack anti-tank, but as Allies they seem incredibly potent even before considering their anti-psyker streak.

The Nuln Oil has given you some pretty sweet highlights for absolutely no effort.
I would do both; Prime white, wash in Nuln Oil, then put Abaddon Black in the centre of the plates just to smooth out the colour.
Do not paint anywhere near the edges and let those cheap cheaty highlights shine through.

Because Custodes Tribune can kill Primarch in duel.

Oh, those highlights were put in later with whitescar/ulthuan gray.

It's the mandatory Sisters HQ that does it for me. I can run a Shield Captain, Navigator (counts as Malcador) and a Knights-Errant if I also have to field a Sister HQ. Would love to make a unit or two just so I can field the Emperor's Marital Aid.

I've been looking at starting a mono-sisters army. The mandatory hq isn't too bad if you take the command squad and get those adrathic weapons they can take, at least it's *something* that can pen 14, even if it's not reliable. Spamming the shit out if their DT does get you 2 missiles and a multi-melta, for whatever that's worth

I feel you right there bro. Maybe with scatter apocalyptic blasts on teleport failure, representing shitstorms of titans being swallowed by the Warp.

Cool, can't wait to try this. Thanks!

Can someone drop a link to the individual legion rules?

mega at the top of the thread buddy

Custodes have Tribune who can fight Primarchs and win.
Dreads with rapidfire lascannon spear, 3W elites, all army is at least 2+ 5++.
Sisters are nice but Custodes are killing machines

After like 5 straight turns of fighting.

Yeah, it's their defense that's ridiculous. Someone did a binomial distribution for a 10-man squad with either melta- or plasmaguns, I forget which. 50% chance of taking down a typical primarch in one turn of shooting. 6% of taking down a tribune. 3+ rerollable invuln is insane.

If your opponent is dick enough to play a LoS-abusing HetaeronStar, just Tank Shock him away. Recon Company can do this first turn, every time.

> Crunch!

Just swamp him in shitty models. Mechanicum can field 20 T3 fearless models for 80 points. By the time he finishes chewing through 20 models the game is almost over. Tribune has no mobility options like a regular praetor, he cannot take a jump pack or jetbike and unlike primarchs he doesn't buff his entire army to a massive extent (eg. Fulgrim giving +2 to combat resolution across the army, getting to choose his warlord trait, and getting to reroll reserves).

I've never played with tanks, how does tankshock work?

Because people are allowed to like the aesthetics of a legion without having to through their lot in with detestable traitors like Horus, Lorgar, Pert, Curze, etc.

>tank moves through dudes
>if dudes can get out of the way, they get out of the way
>one model can opt to make a heroic last stand and try to blow up the tank before he gets splatted

>HOWEVER, if the dudes are surrounded on all sides by enemy models, they get crunched by the tank (can't move within 1" of enemy models, can't move through them).

Splat!

You need to start the turn with a squad near the target, preferably fast, and a tank. A Rhino will be fine.
Surround most of the squad with your unit as shown in . Make sure that you leave a window big enough to drive the Rhino through. Ideally place it so that the model at the opposite end of the 'window' is a worthless peon, because that model is going to survive. Marked 'X' in the diagram.
Tank Shock the Rhino through the squad such that it is placed over every model, except peon at the end. All models must now be moved out of the way.
However, they cannot move forwards or sideways because the unit blocks them. They cannot move backwards because the Rhino is long and they break coherency with Peon X.
As per the 'Crunch' rule, they are therefore removed from play with no saves allowed.

Recon Company is great because the combo of Scout and Infiltrate allows you to deploy your tonks within range and angle of almost anywhere on the board, and can only be blocked if your opponent is expecting you to do it. You can therefore crush 90% of his deathstar, Primarch/Tribune included, at the top of Turn 1 almost without a counter.

Note that in Recon Company you will need to commit 2 units to do so; 1 to bail out and surround the target, and the other to remain embarked in their Rhino. You cannot Shock and Disembark in the same turn.

> Note: This action is extremely cunty and will guarantee you never playing this person again. It will also totally fuck up their deathstar beyond repair and is totally within RaW.

Never.

Yeah, but using CSM rules doesn't change the aesthetics and gives you more of the options legions have.

Hey, that's pretty neat. I gotta try that sometime.

Tanks guys!

The idea of dudes running out of a tank to surround a unit and keep them from running away as their transport slowly rolls over the enemy is hilarious.

>why the Night Lords are such jobbing idiots
We've covered this already. They recruit exclusively from criminal degenerates and enforce no discipline or order beyond might makes right. The legion is completely fucked on a systemic level.

I'm amazed more people don't do tank shocks. People are always so shocked and horrified when I use a cheap rhino to drive off one of their big fancy units, even better when they attempt death and glory.
>Preator death start is getting near a tac blob of mine
>I tank shock him so I can get a bit more distance
>He decides to death or glory
>With his praetor for some reason
>Praetor scores a weapon destroyed result
>Gets ran the fuck over
I'm waiting for the day some retard had a primarch try and death or glory against me and I just run over Angron like a deaf child playing in the street.

Its even better with Maru Skara or other methods of outflanking vehicles. An enemy unit is in position to charge one of my squads, a tank come out of nowhere, drives them off, and parks in front of the squad it just saved.

If Predators were moved to Fast Attack (or some variants of them, like the flamer and autocannon turreted ones), would they get more love?

When the fuck is Valdor getting released?

Soon™

Unironically, before Dorn and Alpharius.

>Detestable traitors
>I love constantly getting the worst jobs and being looked down on with contempt
This is a very wagecuck view of the world.

Is games workshop not selling stuff anymore, besides the boxes?

They are still selling everything to my knowledge. Their website still lists mk IV, mk III, tartaros, cataphractii, and the contemptor dreadnought as being for sale.

If you can't find the complete boxes, you can still get good prices for individual squad sprues on eBay. US$25 for an Mk III/IV squad or Sisters of Silence squad, $35 for a Terminator or Custodes squad, $30 for a Contemptor,

I can't make a decision.
I'm not super fond of 8th, even as someone who barely knew 7th, and I'm interested in HH.

>Word bearers are cool demon summoner guys, Gal Vorbak look amazing
>Sons of Horus are great because Horus is awesome and their paint schemes are nice
>Ultramarines are way better than 40k, I can have the seperatist space Romans I wanted
>EC look nice as well, even if they require more skill than I have
>Alpha Legion
>Mechachicum have cool models and are way more expanded than 40k
>Imperial Fists have Templar brethren, which are nice as well
>Thousand Sons have an aesthetic I love
I just can't pick.
Trying to pick as much for aesthetic and looks as rules, since they're likely to change in playstyle if the core rules change.

Speaking of, did FW ever actually say why they're sticking with 7th?

The first decision is also the hardest. Only thing I would say is that you shouldn't base it on a particular army template. Any Legion can play any theatre of war. So don't feel you can't play White Scars just because you don't want Bikes, for instance.
There is no easy way to make this decision. For me, I based it on a number of factors:
> The 'soul' of a Legion. Do I want my boys to be tacticool space operators, or heavy metal skullface attrition monsters. Do I think Space Marines are a rare resource to be applied surgically, or an unstoppable juggernaut to be swept through enemy ranks.
> Which Primarch's do I 'agree' with in terms of their thoughts, reasons for loyalty/betrayal and general coolness. Which Primarch has rules that I actually want to play on a regular basis.
> Which Legions offer the coolest toys in terms of special equipment, unique units or just radically changing up the playstyle?
> Which Legions can be retooled and repurposed into multiple different builds so that I never get bored.
> Which Legion can you make the best backstory for and make a Legion of yoordudes. Which books can you stomach from BL.

It has taken me literally years to decide that I want Raven Guard, but the decision has stuck and now here I am, happy with my choice.
Even that said there are 3 other Legions that I would happily play as alternatives and may pick up as Allies/opponents for recruitment games.


7th vs 8th, both have their flaws. Most of the obscenity linked to 7th was the result of Formations and Eldar, neither of which exist here. Vehicle rules are all kinds of fucked in both systems.
I prefer 7th simply because I am more familiar with its flaws and trust FW to errata their own set than to start with a fresh new one.

I personally don't find EC too hard to paint as long as you have a steady hand for the details. Purple is an easier colour to paint than say white, light grey, or yellow IMO.

I also like Mechanicum even if I don't play it, Ordo Reductor is a cool concept and myrmidons look like fun units.

I finally have the time and money needed to complete my Night Lords.

Can anyone think of some good trophies and other decorations I could use?
Skulls and bones and chains and hooks and flaps of skin are all well and good, and I will be using them, but I'm trying to come up with some dark, almost disturbing stuff to make 'em stand out more.

For example, once I get some more practice with Greenstuff I plan on sculpting a little teddy bear to hang from a sergeant's belt.
Or maybe a set of two similarly sized skulls, one or two skulls which are much smaller, and then a canine skull, representing a full nuclear family.

The theme I'm going for is simply to play up the edginess of the Night Lords. I've already modeled several guys to have blades on their elbows, knees, and vampraces, both to foreshadow the later spikes and to make them literally be edgy.
I'm callin' them the Cult of Blades, and their praetor (using the Astorath the Grimm model with one of the old, slightly curved Chaos Raptor jet packs and a fuckhuge sword) is called The Edge Lord.

Oh, and where can I find a supply of 28mm alien/xeno skulls? I found one set that had ork, tyranid, and eldar-looking skulls, but I can't seem to find anything more exotic. Chains/hooks sized for marines would also be appreciated.

Anyway, looking for ideas.
Thanks.

>Speaking of, did FW ever actually say why they're sticking with 7th?
Not really. We know Alan Bligh intended to rewrite 30k for 8th, but we don't know how familiar he was with the 8th ed rules when he said that. Then he succumbed to cancer and the rest of the FW team was apparently less enthusiastic about (or capable of) writing new rules. I suspect it started out as, "Let's stick with 7th to buy ourselves time," but they've convinced themselves that they're better off keeping it for a while.

Choosing is indeed hard. The good thing about Thousand Sons is that a lot of their models are new, and their range is pretty complete. They do look great. They're cheesy if you play the Court of the Crimson King rite of war (Sekhmets as troops - they're undercosted, along with Magnus) but the rest of the legion is fine. Their psychic-heavy nature means you have more rules to think about than most players, and you have to revise your plan every battle based on which powers you roll. This legion really wants to be painted with an airbrush.

Word Bearers are best with the Last of the Serrated Sun rite of war. Only problem with them is that your best unit (Gal Vorbak) aren't scoring and that can be difficult to play. They'll be more fun once daemons are formally added to the game (when Book 8 comes out in Dec 2018).

Sons of Horus look great, do very well with veterans. Currently very powerful and green is one of the more forgiving colors to paint (so is UM blue).

Ultramarines are better than in 40k, but they don't look all that different and you'd miss out on the Siege of Terra.

Emperor's Children are either played as a fast finesse army (Maru Skara) or with proto-Noise Marines (IIIrd Company Elite) which are nearly the opposite. They'll probably be completely different by the time we get to Terra - dunno if that's good or bad for people playing them.

>Purple is an easier colour to paint than say white, light grey, or yellow IMO.
All the cool colors are easy to paint compared to the warm colors (namely red and yellow), black, and white. Black sounds easy, but it's only easy to paint to a basic standard.

The only real tricky thing with purple is that it ranges from cool (bluish) to warm (reddish) and they can clash if you highlight or shade with very different purples. Though some people do it on purpose: shade with dark blue, higlight with magenta. There's a fine line between it working or looking cartoonish.

Imagine if Titan Legions and Forge Worlds will get their own unique Traits and RoWs.

> People think painting black is easy

Why would titan legions or forge worlds get rites of war? They don't have master of the legion rules and none of the mechanicum armies use rites of war. Now I could see them having access to special rules akin to legiones astartes rules but I highly doubt they would get rites of war or even an equivalent.

I was playing in the bright, primary-color world of 2nd edition when 3rd came out and the new face of the Astartes were the Black Templars. Everyone assumed they were easy to paint, so suddenly there were black-primed armies with crudely-painted white shoulder pads all over the place. Highlighting by drybrushing was still common back then, and it looked pretty chalky because there was more contrast between the highlight and base color than usual.

(To be fair, Legion of the Damned came out in 2nd so black wasn't entirely new, and Ulthwé had been around for a while too. But they didn't pick up as many brand new players.)

You can't go wrong with flesh bits, flesh loincloths or cloaks.

GW released a fuckload of skulls, from normal to xenos.

For chains, look at military modeling sources or model train shops. There might be some designed for Bolt Action, otherwise look at 1/72 to 1/48 (maaaybe 1/35 but they could be too thick). Not sure what the equivalent train scales would be. Wyrd (Malifaux) might have some accessories in their basing kits. Not familiar with skulls, sorry.

Sounds like an amusing army.

I like those white lines. Are they scratch effects? They look almost runic.

They look like they might've been done with a pen.

CAPTCHA: cocks president

Hmm, that's actually a great idea. For some reason I never think about train or real world military modeling, but they're sure to have a lot of good bits to use.
>flesh bits, flesh loincloths or cloaks
Fuck yeah. All of my apothecaries are basically going to be Fabius Bile (I've always loved his cloak-of-flayed-faces)

figurementors.com/painting-black-power-armour-by-giovanni-di-lena

And with the points requirement to field that Tribune you're playing at ~2500 points. A Custodes army is going to get stomped before that Tribune even gets close to killing a Primarch.

Anyone have some example space wolves lists?
Kind of new to the game and I just want to RIP AND TEAR. Going off the burning of prospero box for now.

Thanks!

Honestly looking at points SoS are leagues better than custodes.
>S4 T3 3+ models armed with two handed power swords that are AP 2 on hit rolls of 5 or 6 and with precision strikes (so any precision hit is AP 2)
>15 points per model

>Same unit but troops, loses one attack and precision strike, and gains preferred enemy against a specific unit

>Paragon Blade WS 5 model for 95 points

>150 point EW instant death slinging special character

>Nearly army wide fearless

>Have a well armed fast transport that is hard to kill for 125 points

>Fuck with psykers (looking at Magnus' psychic terminator bullshit)

While fielding an entire army of them would be difficult they make excellent assassins especially against psychic bullshit. Even outside of psychic bullshit AP 2 and precision strikes is an excellent combination especially for such a cheap unit. Overall they are probably some of the best allies in the game because they fill a fairly niche role that is hard to fill elsewhere and are pretty cheap.

Take Jenetia Krole, 10 Oblivion Knights upgraded to WS 5, an acquisitor, and a naked prosecutor cadre. You have a cheap unit to hide on an objective and an assassin unit of 10 WS 5 2 attack strength 4 AP 3 models that have precision strikes and are AP 2 on hit and wound rolls of 2 led by an eternal warrior WS 6, I 5, 3 wound, eternal warrior model who has duellist's edge (in duels hitting before anyone besides EC and custodes barring specific rites of war or special characters and does murderous strikes on a 5 or 6. Furthermore the entire allied detachment is fearless and can be given infiltrate, stealth, crusader, or +1 to combat resolution.

I dunno. Custodes have access to Deep Strike, mess with the opponents' Deep Strike, and are survivable. Sisters with Swords have a great, points-efficient transport, but are easy to kill once they get out. And they have to get close in for their anti-psychic powers to work. I'm not that intimidated.

Ask other players about swapping extra bits. A friend has a 'show only' Blood Angel with an Eldar blade that has gotten stuck in his armor. The figure is 'combat used' and gouged in several places, even missing a glove. Honestly, the paint job is only average, but the theme is solid.

The first time someone did it to me was amazing. But I've rarely had the chance to return the favor.

If you're running heavy psykers or Chaos SoS is better than Custodes, but you're still paying a premium for units that are relatively squishy outside of their very specific role.

I meant against psykers.

>Custodes have access to Deep Strike
Sisters have an assault transport which offers more versatility since you can protect them until the turn they assault as opposed to deepstrikers who arrive and then spend a turn getting shot at before they can assault. Besides that the potential targets for deepstrikers can either strike them first (lots of legions get significant bonuses for charging) or retreat to a safer position.
>Sisters with Swords have a great, points-efficient transport, but are easy to kill once they get out.
3+ save, access to army wide stealth, oblivion knights get invul saves.>And they have to get close in for their anti-psychic powers to work.
No hard when you have fast skimmer assault transports.

Custodes are shit allies because they are expensive and offer no concise role. Sisters are cheap and can fulfill very specific roles, they can move in quickly, kill their target, and after that anything left is a bonus. Using my SoS counter-death star their goal is to kill or cripple enemy death stars, primarily by decapitating any non EW commander (including mechanicum with high toughness or the vast majority of marine characters.

The entire allies detachment I mentioned costs just 510 points and has army wide fearless and stealth. Stick Krole and her oblivion knights in the transport and put it as far forwards as you can. Vehicle moves 6 inches, unit disembarks, moves 6 inches, and charges 2d6 inches giving a total reach of up to 24" on turn 1 (average of 19"), alternatively you can move flat out turn 1, move turn 2, exit and move the unit, and then assault giving it the ability to reach up to anything 36" away. If an opponent's death star isn't within 36" of your deployment zone by turn 2 than just use them to mulch lesser troops which they are good at since WS 5 and AP 3/2 attacks.

In the actual assault phase Krole gets 5 attacks on the charge (although unlike some characters she doesn't need the charge even for +1 initiative) and 1/3rd of them (so 1 or 2 on average will be instant death), with an Iron Halo a character has a 50% chance of dying to each instant death attack. Furthermore Krole's entourage has precision strikes so them with their cumulative 30 attacks on the charge are scoring 15 hits (10 of them are AP 2 of which 5 or precision hits). Even if the target character survives turn 1 of the assault your squad is fearless meaning they will likely be fighting a second round of combat giving yet more chances for you to cut them down with your ID murder whore and her band of assassin sluts.

Or you could spend 250+ points on your HQ alone, teleport next to a unit, spend a turn getting shot at and have a rhino force your fancy special character to run away from his target before it parks itself between you and your target.

Working on my main Sisters of Silence HQ. Until Krole gets a model this will be my stand-in.

I should run a mechanized tac heavy list.
>6 10 man tac squads in rhinos
>Seekers and vets in rhinos
>A bunch of sicarans and predators
>Just tank shock all day everyday until all enemy units have been run over or failed a tank shock test

Because most people dismiss the game as simple when it actually does have some modicum of depth and complexity.

A well placed tank shock can actually remove large swathes of models from the game outright.

How is she size-wise compared to regular Sisters?

Probably the same size as Alpharius is supposed to be.
Suspiciously so.

I don't agree. Chess is shit once they got rid of formations and USRs. You just advance towards the enemy. What's so strategic about that?

>"Come with me if you want to live."
>"I think I already died and went to heaven."

Damn. I've been looking for a base model for my SoS HQ, but having her be that big would bother me.
I guess I'll have to shell out for a Veridyan model after all.

I am tempted to use SoS and SoB to field an Imperial Militia dark age survivors and gene-modded army. Maybe fluff it as some sort of amazon world where men were second class citizens whose warriors looked down on the astartes until some legion pushed their shit in and they were forced to swear loyalty to the Imperium. Used the Horus Heresy to throw off the yoke of the emperor and raided other worlds until they got their shit pushed in again during the Scouring.

You could always just do a bit of extra conversion work on a vigilator.

Don't forget some Necromunda Eschers for Levies.

>only advances
>never moves backwards or sideways to setup future charges

They gave your bishop and queen vector dancer for a reason, idiot!

Honestly I'm surprised sci-fi settings in general don't use weaponized asteroids/planetoids/etc. Once you master FTL manipulating gravity enough to redirect them into enemy targets would be a piece of cake.

Not in 30k. You'll get one shotted all day long.

She's not that big.

They're a little weird next to each other.

according to horus heresy weekender 2017, early 2018