Does a paladin fall if he kills the evil lord who killed, raped...

>Does a paladin fall if...
Check the catalogue, we have this fucking thread 10x a day, every day....

Actually, playing Paladins as Jedi is a pretty good idea. Jedi don't "fall" and lose their powers. If they feel they have done wrong, the meditate on that mistake and sometimes stone of the feel the need to. They're powerful space wizards who help keep the peace, but they recognize they are also fallible humans and work to rise above that.

wrong

The whole giving into anger thing for Jedi is a problem specifically because the Dark Side exists and is both influential and corrupting. Paladins smiting evil in the name of their god really doesn't compare to that at all, it's their fucking divine job, that's what being Lawful is all about.

If you want to create a moral dilemma like what OP is describing, that would apply better to a monk following some sort of pacifistic way.

This is really up to the GM if they want to tweak the nature of pallies. What you describe does sound more "hippy space-wizard" than "the physical embodiment of divine retribution".

>now out of combat and taunting him to finish him off
This is key.
If he follows a very chivalrous god, then yes. He should be hauling the guy off for the hangman (or at the very least initiating a fair open combat).
If he follows a more pragmatic deity, then it's XP and tavern wenches all around! Except the paladin. No wenches for him.

I was just saying that Captain "Divine Fury" can also recognize he is a fallible mortal. People make mistakes, and where I think a Paladin falls is not [doing a bad thing], but in failing recognizing and atone for that mistake.

What exact edition of D&D are we talking about? Normally, IIRC, Falling happens as a direct result of breaking your Paladin Code. However, Atonement is also a thing if it was a mistake.

Also, Phylactery of Faithfulness+Detect Evil go a long ways towards not making such mistakes.

Mortals make mistakes, but gods don't, certainly not from a paladin's perspective. Paladins might question their own conduct but only so far as they aren't clear on whether or not they are doing specifically what their god wants. You'd be creating a much bigger conundrum for the paladin by forcing them into that sort of situation than just "do I become the bad guy?"

Pelor is big on forgiveness. There's even a bit where he'd forgive vampires if they honestly asked.

I think killing the guy would not justify falling but would be considered by Pelor to be a dick move.

The paladin falls unless the evil lord is systematically killed, raped, pillaged and destroyed. Fail in any of these and justice will not have been done.

I dunno, is he? Wouldn't that depend on how the player roleplays the event?

But Pelor is also Evil, and as such is an invalid choice of deity for an LG Paladin.

>Pelor
>evil
???
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelor

10/10 post there, friend

>Does a paladin fall if
No
>is it still an act that needs atonement?
No.
Especially if we're talking 5e. The villain is clearly trying to commit once last act of evil by making the paladin doubt themself. He is not displaying any of the traits of a person who is about to repent, and so it's not even a matter of mercy. The right course of action is to cave his skull in the moment he starts talking.

>Pelor, The Burning Hate
>Good
???
web.archive.org/web/20150929063558/http://community.wizards.com/comment/13724166

>Pelor
>the burning hate
>not evil

If they Detect as Evil, God is telling you they're fair game. What kind of paladin doubts his god's direct guidance?

...

>Does a paladin fall
Maybe if he trips over the evil lord's corpse on his way out?

It's been 3 years since that feature was axed in an edition update. Keep up with the game, old-timer.

>God of Valor
The honorable thing to do is to let him pick up his weapon and continue the fight. Striking him down now (to make him more powerful blah blah blah) is dishonorable and requires atonement, which should be the equivalent of three hail marys and going forth to sin no more.

>God of Justice.
You are Judge, Jury, and Executioner. You have born witness to the evidence, and heard his defense. The verdict is guilty. the punishment, death. No absolution needed.

>God of Goodness
Crap and a haddock, you can't kill this motherfucker even if he professionally kicks puppies and shoves razor blades into children's halloween candy during his free time. Take him alive, then conveniently look the other way while the ranger, barbarian, and rogue deal with him.

>God of Nature
Kill him, feed the body to the vultures. This is the first step in the restoration of the natural order.

>God of Death.
Kill him. Make FUCKING SURE he's dead. This may require a prolonged consultation with your deity to make sure that he's been properly catalogued and received in the afterlife.

>God of (Playable character race)
Was this guy an asshole to members of (playable character race)? If yes: No absolution needed. If No, take it up with your god, and explain how he was a *potential* asshole for (playable character race) who was better off dead. Three hail marys and go forth to sin no more.

>God of (environment)
The sea / forest / mountain / desert don't fucking care. He's dead, bury him someplace or feed him to the local wildlife.

Do the rules actually say disobeying your god caused a fall?

If he has surrendered or is helpless maybe.

No. Paladins are not Clerics and are not powered by gods except, supposedly, in 4e.
They're powered by sheer dedication to their code and/or the raw essence of supernatural law and good.

If the setting is meant to evoke a kind of pseudo-medieval morality, then killing the evil lord world just be execution. Chances are you're not just taking revenge for what he did against you, but avenging the deaths of countless others and eliminating the threat he might still pose to the world. Unless your DM is the kind who goes out of his way to make the Paladin do 'wrong', there shouldn't be a problem.

But if you were feeling especially lawful, you'd have the paladin take the evil lord under his custody until he could face the present authorities. That's likely to end in hanging or beheading, anyway. If said lord WAS the present authority, then you're pretty much forced to either execute him personally, or keep him locked up until a provisional government can be scraped together for the region, and have him face trial then.

>not saying your paladins like the Punisher
I am the weapon of . Does the sword stand trial for murder? My actions are the will of . If you find fault with my actions, then pray to and ask him to stand trial.

>but is now out of combat and taunting him to finish him off?
There's no such thing as out of combat. Unless you can guarantee the BBEG can be restrained, you shouldn't even be hesitating to put a sword through him.

Mother fucker might have 15 levels in monk.

The reason the emperor offers to let Luke Kill him is precisely because he KNOWS Luke couldn't do it calmly. He knows Luke is boiling with rage at this point and is trying to push him just that last bit over the edge to where he totally gives in to his anger.

The situation doesn't work if the paladin isn't angry and is merely meting out cold justice.

A paladin is an arbiter of his god's laws and justice. If his god demands the execution of the evil lord he is obligated to do so. If his god would prefer otherwise, then that would be the path to follow. That is it.

Lawful Good does not mean Lawful Nice. Mercy comes at the expense of Justice.

>God of Goodness
By slaying this villain, you are removing Evil from the world and helping Good flourish. Strike him down.

Not according to Gygax, and thus not according to D&D.

Star Wars clearly has different values.

>ctrl + f
>god
>27 results

It's a paladin, not a cleric. The part of a description of a paladin saying that they are warriors of a god shows how virtuous and devoted they are. They are based on the peers of Charlemagne (also called paladins due to their captain being the count of Palatine) They are knights, not priests. A paladin gets his powers from sheer force of personality and unshaking devotion, not by being "granted" them by a higher power, which is why a godless paladin is fine. Gygax himself stated that moral quandries like this are the whole idea behind the paladin, since in AD&D, a paladin was a Lawful Good warrior who was a cut above fighters provided his actions were good first and lawful second.

>inb4 detect evil is their god telling them who to smite
It's not. It's the paladin's own power, like all their "divine" abilities.

youtube.com/watch?v=T-K8qi_AoXI

RIGHTEOUS AND FURIOUS ANGER MOTHERFUCKER

Nothing wrong with righteous rage

Lawful Good does not imply following temporal law.