What do you guys think of the Spanish Civil War as an inspiration...

What do you guys think of the Spanish Civil War as an inspiration? There really wasn't any moment in history quite like it. Some of the ideas could serve as interesting inspiration for a setting.

Or is it too tacky/insensitive to draw from such a brutal conflict?

Only if you're drawing from a detailed history of it. No right or left wing propagandizing of the event.

In a dungeon crawl? It'd be miserably tacky. In a game with magic and wizards and warriors? Doubly so. But if you're in a game based around character interaction, and you portray it as the hell it was, and you don't spare the details of Badajoz or Paracuellos? You should be fine.

depends on how and what you're doing with it, like having a conflict inspired by the various brigades and factions vs setting a game in the war itself. plus what's beyond the pale or not depends on the group its being presented to in large part

But the event was inherently left versus right. Nationalists vs Anarchist, Communist, and Liberal coalition

I use what I call the Garth Ennis Rule. If I'm using a real world setting and the events of the game wouldn't be out of place in Garth Ennis comic using the same setting then I'm okay.

You've already simplified it too far. The right was not that unified, and the buildup to it was incredibly complicated.

>Pedro, stop copying the matrix
>Dodge this!
>For the love of el Generalisimo

Only if the good guys win

The Nationalists were incredibly divided between the Military, the Falange, CEDA, the Aristocracy, the Church, the Carlists, the Royalists, etc. That's not even getting into the Republicans, who had Marxists, Syndicalists, Stalinists, Leninists, Anarchist, Democrats, and more fighting for them. The Spanish Civil War is way too complex to be boiled down to good vs evil.

One was supported by George Orwell, one was supported by Hitler. It's a pretty easy moral calculation to determine who was in the right. Also the republic was democratically elected. The military had no right to try and take power.

>le Hitler is ultimate evil
>le Hitler's only mistake was losing
Regardless of which of these sides you stand on, you are mongrel filth and should never act as if you understand history in any degree

>nationalist
But the nationalists where the ansync, republicans and commies???

One of the things about the Spanish Civil war is that the ostensible good guys at the beginning (reasonably legitimate elected government)... weren't... at the end. Call it five major factions at outset, all that had something to recommend them, and nobody you could put a good guy hat on at the end as possible victors. Fairly nasty local authoritarians was a decent outcome for the endstate, almost a compromise.

Orwell would climb out of his grave and dick-punch you if you said he supported the Stalinist asshats that purged the POUM, user.

In point of fact Hitler supported both sides, user. The key distinction is that they insisted the Republicans pay in cash on the barrelhead, and the Nationalists could do IOUs.

...Spanish Civil War wasn't the kind of thing that lends itself to simplification.

...Possibly *explanation*.

pretty sure ethe only reason Hitler picked a side to support was to test all their new weapons and tactics before they kick-started WWII. They gained a ton of experience and insight from the conflict and got to pawn off old out of date gear. It was a win win for them.

Same for the Soviets, if Stalin hadn't purged their leadership after learning the lessons they did maybe the Soviet Union wouldn't have gotten it's shit stomped so badly in the opening stages of the 1941 invasion.

>"the only reason"

I think that's somewhat dishonest, don't you? I'm sure the nationalists being generally far right and sympathetic to fascism played a part in it as well.

Europe would have been in a much better place now if Hitler had won.

It's not that simple. Here is the thing, you had the republicans right? They are the "grand coalition" BUT at the same time they are the non-revoultionary fraction in the whole event. Than you have CNT, the anarchist, who while were part of the republic would at the same time implement anarchism where they went (suprisingly it worked, one of the very few instences it did). CNT would often feude with the stalnists, to the point that there were some firefight between the two fractions. Than you have the stalnists sent by staling and the communists/anty-fascists who just joined the war because fuck franko. The whole war was a clusterfuck and a mini world war 1 in it self

Stormnigger, let me tell you something - I picked up this gif less than 24 hours ago, and I'm glad I've already gotten a chance to use it. Genuine thanks.

Now back to /pol/ with you.

He hated the NKVD and Stalin. He was always sympathetic to the Marxists and especially the Anarchists. There's little doubt that he hated the Nationalists more than the Soviets though.

Citation needed

Stalin (well, somebody from SIM at least) would smile at that sentence, user. Shows that the propaganda really took.

That isn't an analysis, user. That's *vocabulary*.

>suprisingly it worked

No, it didn't. Revolutionary Catalonia was a hell-hole to live in if you were anything other than a devout anarchist (revolutionary tribunals, extrajudicial killings, vigilantes, thousands of executions based on presumed allegiance or social class, burning Churches and torturing and killing members of the clergy...), and the other anarchist areas were little better, AND they fought against one another even as the Falangists and other right-wingers organized into a (comparitively) cohesive force.

I never understood why anarchists point to Spain as an example of anarchy "working", when it demonstrates the most fundamental, obvious flaw of anarchism: a complete lack of ability to organize and deal with outside forces.

Besides which, Revolutionary Catalonia lasted only 3 years. A nation can hardly be said to "work" when it collapses before it's old enough to buy porn.

His rage-quit when the papers back home started telling him how the people in the hospital ext to him were crypto-fascists was pretty epic, user. But the jist of it was that he wasn't calling down a plague on both houses, it was trying to explain to the world that they were the same house.

>but as a matter of practicality, if you were fighting against the Nationalists, you do not want to lose to them

The Battle for Spain, Beevor

The guy was pretty far left. Was openly a Social Democrat, perhaps even a Trotskyist as he was quite sympathetic toward him. Is your beef that I said he was supportive of Marxist movements? I mean that's historical fact. He fought with an international Marxist brigade in the Spanish Civil War.

Read Homage to Catalonia. He makes it clear that he was never happier in his life than living in Catalonia after it was being "run" by the anarchists.

I don't know why people assume Orwell is some capitalist hero, the guy hated capitalism slightly less than he hated Stalinism. He was a leftist through and through.

Yeah, that's decent enough wikipedia summation of Orwell, user (you left out the part where he was shot in the throat when he was with the POUM militia, but dunno if his wikipedia page mentions that). And utterly meaningless to his views and writings on the Spanish Civil War.

>also Orwell never actually joined the International Brigades. Was thinking about it- he thought the militias were good people, but not the people to beat Franco- but events overtook him.

What are we arguing about? I'm confused

I was barely even aware it was a thing. I won't skim wikipedia for five minutes and pretend I'm an expert.

What's so special about it, in your opinion?

You thought I had an incomplete view on Orwell, when I actually had a more complete view on Orwell. After his experiences he defined the enormity as expressions of a single thing that he called "power worship".

>and he really did write a nice rant about getting out the hospital and discovering he and guys had been fascists all along, says the Republic

White "people" killing eachother

A dramatic showdown between the right and the left in Spain that would foreshadow what was to come for the world in the 20th century. Foreign fighters poured in to support whatever ideology they believed in

I'm not the first person to state this but there are many parallels between it and the Syrian civil war.

Catalonia in particular is of interest as there was never a time before or since that a place like it existed

That's rude, there were actually a lot of black American leftists and Marxists who went to fight there. In fact, a black man was the head of the American volunteer brigade for a while during the war

At first the anarquist side was chaos until Durruti organized it. A chaotic army couldnt hold Catalonia so long.

The thing is that everyone said that Catalonia was lost because Arnaquist were disorganized.

No Catalonia lost because the National army was pretty fuck up at the moment and Franco had morroquian troops and Hitler´s help.

The national front was denied from the sea or airspace because Hitler. It was a pretty one sided battle from the start.

>55475782
D-Did you actually read Homage to Catalonia? Half of it is about how fucking awful the entire war was, even the Republicans. The first chapter opens with him describing how godawfully the Republicans have treated a small town.

He was a coon

>its another güiris attempt to understand a spanish thing
Stop it hanz, pierrs, smith and co. It is too complicated for you, go back to thinkin Quixote is "epic" and "how cool it is to follow your dreams" and musical.

??

He was an American Marxist? Fighting for equal rights?

>The Spanish civil war and by extension Spain are special, they're too smart/complicated and nobody else can understand them but Spainards

So..... the Basques.

Like , I'd like to know much more about it before I drew inspiration from it - my knowledge of it basically boils down to it being a preview of WWII where many Blitzkrieg weapons and tactics were tested, Hitler and Stalin both backed sides, a lot of future famous artists were there, and the Clash song Spanish Bombs - which is a pisstake of war protest songs based on the way no-one knows or cares much about the Spanish Civil War - but it sounds like it might be cool.

the good guys were betrayed by their "allies". Any member of the republic who is greeted by communists proclaiming themselves as friends is better off doing the world a favor and shooting him in the face before he buries the knife in your back later.

It certainly seems interesting, and you get a lot of different stuff (and testing of odd interwar tech) all in one place.
I'd kind of like to see an alt-hist/dieselpunk version of the war, seems like it'd be a good setting for it - and (a bit) less charged than WWII at least.

Also, even if you don't know (or have) all the ins and outs of ALL the factions and sub-factions there was a lot of infighting and factionalism, so it's great for a mix of intrigue and combat

Spanish civil war is boring, Russian civil war is better place to look for inspiration.

It's a cool war, but I don't know, there's less different groups (especially foreigners, which opens up more PC opportunities/backgrounds) on the Russian civil war sides, and less cars, tanks and planes too.

That said, both are better than the ACW

>Or is it too tacky/insensitive to draw from such a brutal conflict?
Why would you even think that?

The interwar period was pretty cool for people trying new shit out

>That said, both are better than the ACW

There are two kinds of people, user. Those who have correct opinions, and those who shitpost.

>re's less different groups (especially foreigners, which opens up more PC opportunities/backgrounds) on the Russian civil war sides,

You've Americans, Germans, Turks, Japanese, British & Commonwealths, Czechoslovakians, Mongols, Chinese, Italians, Finns, Estonians, Ukrainians, and Poles in relatively large amounts not to mention various ethnic groups living in Russia and whatever communist sympathizers that might have arrived abroad and joined into bring forth the first communist state.

I'm not saying it's not an important war, or even an interesting war, but you try, just you try to have a thread that mentions it (esp alt-versions) on Veeky Forums

Every time it gets drowned in a sea of bullshit from bootyblasted murricunts of all sorts: yankees, southrons, "muh states rights", "northern aggression", "the south should burn again" and people trying to shout them down - they all shitpost the same.

>both sides
TRIGGERED

>and whatever communist sympathizers that might have arrived abroad
Yeah, that's what I was getting at - in the russian civil war almost all of the foreigners are on one side - in the spanish civil war there were volunteers on both sides, which gives players more choice on who to support agnostic of their characters' nationality

Clearly you fall into the later category amigo.

>One was supported by George Orwell

Wow... you ARE a douche nozzle, aren't you? Read "Homage to Catalonia" and learn just how much Orwell supported the side you think he did.

Hitler at this point in time hadn't gone all the way off the deep end really. He actually ended up supporting both sides in the form of munitions and training even. It was all an extra excuse for him to increase his military buildup really.

If you think the American Civil War was even slightly muddy, you will find the Spanish Civil War completely opaque.

You blame Americans but when I used to browse /int/, the guys most obsessed with the Confederacy always seemed to be British, Polish and Swedish guys.

This is a reminder that the Communists and Anarchists were largely anti-hat.

>tf2 anarchists

That's not true, user. It wasn't until recently (less than a year ago) that I found out that Sherman was literally a red-headed stepchild.

>shitposting is a genre unto itself

Pretty much the best war ever.

Reminder that Franco did nothing wrong, with the sole exception of bringing back the monarchy before his death instead of appointing a successor.

Huh. Explains the burning rage.

Still, any mention of it seems to disrupt threads, especially alternate results.

>There really wasn't any moment in history quite like it
Did you just impled there never was a civil war with outside forces playing their dibbs in it?

No, that's simply a statement of fact. Joseph Stalin was a worse man in literally every single regard than Adolph Hitler, and the Soviet Union was a worse country in every single regard than Nazi Germany.

We should've supported the fascists. The only reason we didn't is that we foolishly thought that the USSR would be easy to deal with after the war. In actuality they were allowed to continue torturing and murdering people for DECADES after the war ended.

We backed the wrong horse, and the culture-death of Europe is the inevitable consequence of that decision.

>being this alt right

Read this and tell me they did nothing wrong

Communists literally deserve worse. There is no such thing as a good thief, and no such thing as an innocent communist. It probably IS a genetic disorder. We should bring back these experiments. I can find you 10,000 Antifa criminals in two days, we'll torture them to death together.

>Look how edgy I am
This is an adult-only site, user.

Is it edginess, or simply what all rational people belief? Even Communists agree that the only way to make a good communist is to starve one to death, that's why they murdered each other in world-record setting numbers.

Yeah he killed commies, so what? They would've done the same exact thing. Hell, have you ever heard of The Authoritarian Personality? That's basically lefties claiming being right-wing is a mental disorder.

If you want something less charged and definitely more of a testing ground, why not China during warlord period? Ten times more interesting and "adventure friendly" for a game setting, where you can be a party of mercs doing errands for literally anyone you please.

The Anarchists and Communists on the Republican side were just as awful, if not worse; burning churches, raping nuns, torturing priests, etc.

Does that excuse the actions of the Nationalists? No. But brutality is bound to be met with brutality. It's unavoidable.

...

>Bring an army of north africans into your country to rape your women because they're communists

Well, at the very least you can say he wasn't racist, I guess.

>Oh look, an interesting setting idea for interwar campaign without going for WW2 stuff and large sca...
>It's /pol/ wankfest
Every. Single. Time.

Not a bad idea, but unfortunately many of those warlords, with only a few exceptions, were very similar. Not as many different ideologies there, really.

We couldn't wank off without you all

I actually sent an Email to Rebellion studios stating that I would stop Naziposting on their forums permanently if they made a Sniper Elite game where you played as a Nazi and got to shoot Soviets.

They actually answered, and said they'd thought about doing one in Stalingrad that alternated between a Soviet and a German who would end up having a cool sniper duel, but were afraid that the political climate would upset people.

I took a poll on /pol/ and 500 people agreed to stop shitposting if we got this one concession. You can thank the cowardice of Rebellion Studios for this thread.

>This thread
>Mein careto cuando

The concept isn't about them being different - it's the POINT of almost zero difference. A goal of the campaing could easily be about being Man With No Name, rolling in, getting in the middle of local power struggle, change things as you see fit, then end up wiping out everyone and leaving the are for Your Real Power Of Choice.
Can work either if you want to support KMT, Mao (or Chinese Soviets if you set the campaign early enough), third party or even Japanese. Or nobody, really, doing this for shit, giggles and profit. Or working for outside force, so they can take over more "concessions".

The sky is the limit, really. Especially if you bring with yourself a tankette or armoured car.

It'd be the Witcher but harder to keep track of and with more sophisticated political theory to go with the soul-crushing sophisticated cultural setting.

>the poor Hobbit anarchro-regional-sepratists
>well, at least they died hard

>It's not my fault I shitpost
>It's all the international commie conspiracy at working!
Also, this is Veeky Forums, not /v/. Have you at least notice that?

>Use the historical Spanish civil war as the setting
>PCs are a multi-national team of treasure hunters taking advantage of the chaos to explore archeological sites in Spain and North Africa for treasure and artifacts (think Indiana Jones)
>Nationalists and Republicans troops are also investigating these ruins looking for loot to fund the war effort
>PCs stumble across supernatural artifacts that have the potential to change the course of the war, both sides of the conflict seek to enlist their help in securing these

By not writing "various cliques in multiple factions in each of the two side seek to enlist their help" you pleb'd yourself, user. Try again, do better.

But Witcherverse is boring as fuck. The further the books go, the more boring it gets, turning - you've guessed it - into a /pol/-tier wankfest by the final book and generating only utter apathy toward any events that can/do happen.
It should never go beyond short stories format. Saga was a mistake.

t. Pole

Just trying to lighten the mood. It is a true story though.
Also not blaming communists, as Zizek says, they actually have basically zero power, the establishment is essentially a corporate neo-liberal melange of business interests and marketing firms. Communist conspiracies are a thing of the past. Actually, communist conspiracies were never even a thing in the past, because communists were always just useful idiots securing suckling pig and roast beef for the tables of dictators while millions of them starved to death.

Did you know I also once sent a letter to Varg Vikernes begging him not to release another retroclone of D&D? He didn't answer me. Bastard. Fucking modifiers to swim checks based on the salt content of the water. Just kill me.

So literally Raiders of the Lost Ark: Spanish Edition?
Even Mummy 3 wasn't this boring, while playing the exact same scenario.

Not a terrible idea, though your party would have to be used to being betrayed a lot

Not even reading

Oh come on, I'm extending an olive branch here.

Wait, The Witcher turned into /pol/? I'd always assumed that the Nilfgardians were a loose depiction of the Swedes from the Deluge, combined with, uh, more contemporary Germanic invaders, but I didn't know things got that explicit.

Was that the idea? Were they stuffing Kowalskies into ovens or something? Hey serious question, should I watch the new Fire on the Steppe before I watch Potop, or should I watch them in production order?

They really are pathetic scum.

The idea is to betray them before they betray you.
Otherwise you won't survive there more than a week.
Honestly, assuming you would start the campaign somewhere around '27 mark, ANYTHING is possible. Right after the Shanghai purge is probably the best moment to start - KMT is still not an overwhelming power, the warlords still are numerous and various, soviets and communes are even more numerous, Mao is still not the top dog and so on and forth and the Central Plain War is still a thing to come.

Just compare that with Spanish Civil War, where after initial few months you have clearly definied sides and after first year, the war is so one-sided a small pack of mercs is literally meaningless.

>Fucking modifiers to swim checks based on the salt content of the water.
Truly, the white mind is capable of incredible achievements

That actually does sound kinda cool, if true.
Certainly sounds like a rad game potential.

Also you get this mad, bad motherfucker as a side character if you go far enough west.

Bonus points for, as a PC mercenary group playing in successive Russian Civil War and Chinese Warlord Era games (with Sternberg as an aid for the transition)

>Changai
>Get the horses

In the last book Nilfgaard is LITERALLY German invasion of Poland in '39. Not as a metaphore, but literal things, including even stuff like the famous Gleiwitz provocation and SS troops killing peasants (no, seriously, black guys with silver S insignia killing people just to terrorise everyone else).
It's so fucking edgy and just plain BORING in the way how it's all framed and executed all you can do is rolling eyes.

And the idea was to "torch the franchise and run", as they call it - Sapkowski himself got bored with Witcher, so he decided to turn it into a complete clusterfuck nobody would like, including killing EVERYONE who is not Dandelion by the end of the final book. That includes Geralt himself.

Re-read the last sentence, the African troops thought the Spanish were taking the rape thing too far.

I think his issue is that applying a modifier based on salt content is an asinine and generally pointless detail. How likely has the GM actually determined what the salt content is, and how much of an impact will this realistically make?

Ungern is a meme-tier guy. Literal insane nobody that somehow all sort of alt-history authors just love, for no real reason.