Pic related suddenly appears within the 40k galaxy...

The last Destiny thread really convinced me that the one thing I thought Destiny had actually done right, the world, was actually utter shit. I wonder what this one will show me.

>I wonder what this one will show me.
Probably nothing, if you didn't like the last thread. But that's okay. I'm sure that we can burn our way back there, in time. Isn't that right:
O, Player Mine?

They couldn't leverage their full ontological powers outside of the Vault of Glass. The Gorgon in your example could still erase Guardians and hell, Kabr's group didn't even get past the Templar before it called in the oracles and decided to erase Kabr's fire time from existence.

That said, as an addendum, the light did play a role in Kabr forming the Aegis out of his light which protects the next firetime (MC's fireteam) from the erasure effect.

>They couldn't leverage their full ontological powers outside of the Vault of Glass.
Even so, they were -attempting- to find a way to rectify this. It's actually mentioned in one of the grimoire, that the Sol Progeny were actually meant to wield the ontological apocryphal that Atheon and its fellow Minds were developing.

Yeah and then Atheon gets curb stomped and spooked off a ledge. It also seems like they can't easily repair/build the VoG because they just havn't made another Atheon and started operations again.

>Yeah and then Atheon gets curb stomped and spooked off a ledge. It also seems like they can't easily repair/build the VoG because they just havn't made another Atheon and started operations again.
It's implied that Atheon being a "creature outside of time", can simply plop itself back into the timestream whenever it wants, and get right back to business. The reason that it -hasn't- can probably be explained by it still trying to figure out how the fuck it was beaten. Also, the whole "spooked off a ledge" thing doesn't work anymore. They installed baby-bumpers in his arena to prevent that.

Isn't that because the VoG was their attempt by Vex of the past, present, and future to unite their efforts? It would seem that Vex of all time periods have their own problems to deal with, probably still fighting the Darkness.

Also possible. Even the Vex can't simulate Light. It seems like Atheon's defeat is akin to the confounding of Oryx's Sword Logic: The Guardians, with their Light, have somehow fucked with the structures and rules they've built so hard that they've proven all their efforts, theorems, and truths to be wrong.

That's ultimately what Destiny is about when it comes to boss showdowns like this: defeating a major entity is a decisive argument in a debate, and each mission leading up to it builds that fatal proof.

>Isn't that because the VoG was their attempt by Vex of the past, present, and future to unite their efforts? It would seem that Vex of all time periods have their own problems to deal with, probably still fighting the Darkness.

There's also the fact that in one time line they do lose to the Hive.

The Vex arn't very imaginative and rely heavily on being able to simulate outcomes to find the one that favors them greatly. Even though they have comparible levels of power they're sort of like the Borg in that they don't have any sort of creative learning or even interest in it and are forced to re-act in a lot of instances. That said, they could always be playing the long con and acting in certain ways for their own benefit but who knows how far that actually goes but I suppose we'll really see when the Osiris DLC drops.

The problem with the Vex I think, is that they cling far too tightly to their "Pattern". Their belief is that -everything- can be explained through the Pattern, Everything. That all of the secrets of the multiverse will be opened up to them through the might of the Pattern. And it is this that blinds them to other potential outcomes, or solutions to their problems.

The unexplainable being the Light and Dark, which seem to confound everyone. The Hive embraced the Dark, as we see now the Cabal is seizing the Light, and the Vex seem unable to grapple either substance. Then there's the Fallen who will cling to anything they can get their hands on. Shit, they even have extra arms, which might be some symbolism of that fact in and of itself.

It's kinda hilarious how pretty much every other race barring the Vex themselves has at the very least -some- understanding of the two principle forces governing their universe, and directly benefit from them. The Vex are unable to comprehend how these two magical forces work however, and actively break themselves down trying to fathom them.

...

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Exterminatus weapons, blackstone fortresses, nova cannons, warp storms, planet killer, Tyranid shit, Necron shit, or just an Ork whaaagh takes care of it.

Quria was suppose to fix that in a way. With it's understanding or growing understanding of the Sword Logic it directed the other Vex to emulate worship in order to try and derive some power from the Dark and did so with the Black Heart although it seemed to realize that it was a bad idea to introduce the larvae to the Radiolaria. This probably limits its ability to interact with the Darkness but also prevents them from being wholly subservient to it the way the Hive are even after Oryx took the power to Take

Apparently Cabal women have tusks.

Wait he's exiled? I thought he was supposed to be their god emperor

Yes he's exiled. The Consul used Ghaul to help him accomplish this along with the list of traitors Calus lists in his letter

Is there anything that wouldn't just get utterly raped if it were to suddenly enter the 40k universe? Is 40k the most powerful setting?

>the most powerful setting
Far from it. It's on the lower middle point of the scale and actually very toned down and reasonable when you think about it.

>Is 40k the most powerful setting?
Far from it, but it's pretty powerful compared to the average.

>55515445
40k isn't a setting a power, it's a setting of mutually assured destruction, that's why the shit is so grimdark.

It doesn't matter if you somehow beat the Imperium, you also gotta beat these green guys, and these blue guys, and these space elves, then the space elves super edgy trans brother/sisters with a serious bdsm fetish... then these terminator robots that can destroy stars with a blink... then if you get past all this shit you have to fight daemon worshipers who bring real demons with them... then after ALL of this shit... you gotta fight a galaxy sized swarm of space bugs.

There is no winning against WH40k

>Is there anything that wouldn't just get utterly raped if it were to suddenly enter the 40k universe?
The only 3 off the top of my head who can run with the 40k universe and survive are Halo's Forerunner, the Flood, and Cortana's 'Created' (who now control most of the Forerunner tech in the Haloverse)
>Is 40k the most powerful setting?
In all of Sci-fi? No. However, when compared to most Sci-fi universes (Star Wars/Trek, Halo, Destiny, Mass Effect, etc.), 40k still comes out on top.

It's part of the setting being outrageously over-the-top by design.

inb4 the Culture is mentioned

In 40k? That's Tuesday.

No, there's no Godliness to his Imperiality. That was just a fan theory based on the word 'Him' being capitalized in D1's only reference to him.

He is, however, massively popular due to his love of giving people free shit, which is why his usurpers exilied him instead of executed him- fear of a civilian uprising. That, tied in with his almost Slaaneshi level of excess and indulgence, may explain why they capitalized the 'Him'.

It's interesting, really; He overthrew a previous, militaristic regime, shut down all foreign wars and started spending the Empire's capital on bread & circuses, and was then overthrown by a second military regime. From their perspective he'd abandoned the only means for the Empire's growth to concentrate on vanity projects, from his perspective he'd shut down pointless foreign wars and dedicated his life to making people happy. Both sides have a point.

All that said, for a man of peace, he still flies around in a ship that eats inhabited planets to make alcohol.

No, that's the day on which Tacos are eaten.

The planet Tacos IV, to be precise.

>All that said, for a man of peace, he still flies around in a ship that eats inhabited planets to make alcohol.
>huge-ass ship that eats inhabited planets to make alcohol
>ship makes alcohol
>Every Ork Deathskull, Blood-Axe, Snakebite and Freeboota is now in pic related mode

>No, that's the day on which Tacos are eaten
>Implying it's not both

>By the Emperor how horrifying

And here I thought I was going over the top letting a Mek Boy figure out how to turn a Necron Obelisk into a battery for his planet-scale Zap gun

>And here I thought I was going over the top letting a Mek Boy figure out how to turn a Necron Obelisk into a battery for his planet-scale Zap gun
Wot?

Okay, I have got to hear about this.

Seriously though, I'm now imagining a bunch of Orks looting the Cabal's ex-emperor's ride and doing the following to it:
1. Paint every inch of the hull red, blue, or purple camouflage depending on the klan looting it.
2. Add more dakka
3. Develop a way to use it to start brewing fungus beer
4. Use the 'nomming planets' function to generate MORE fungus beer, because the Orks are simply going to believe they can, therefor it will happen.
5. Add more dakka
6. Attach bigger/louder engines to the ship to help it 'go fasta'
7. Stick a giant ramming prow on the front because Orks LOVE ramming enemy ships
8. Did I mention add more dakka?

It will be fun until it is not, then the threads will stop until the fun resumes.

It was an idea for a Dark Heresy Game where a governor's ship was struck by a massive beam of energy. Tracing it back lead to a planet where Free-boota Mek Boss and his crew were messing around with a seemingly non-functional Obelisk (the planet was a tomb world)

Just going to mention that Calus is near-godlike in terms of power. Even mere robot CLONES of him are capable of channeling raw magical power that can outright -annihilate- whole fire-teams of Guardians. You know, the same beings capable of defying and killing fullblown -Gods-. His psychic might is also incredibly vast, enabling him to project a realm similar to a Hive Ascendant Realm, which allows him to simply devour his foes. If anybody tries anything he can simply go full "DELET" on their asses. But he won't. He's nice that way.

>there's a infantry scale, burst fire D-Cannon in D2
How prevalent do you think they were during the golden age?

>How prevalent do you think they were during the golden age?
Probably quite common, wouldn't be surprised if it was just something everyone could get. Golden Age Humanity was fucking insane.

If Cabal know about ghosts they why don't they kill your ghost when you fight them?

Because ghost usually hide in their hammer space and don't come out unless the guardian is killed

>a major entity is a decisive argument in a debate, and each mission leading up to it builds that fatal proof

Please don't frame it like that. It sounds super lame.

It's so weird how with as advanced as golden age mankind was, they never got out of the solar system.

40k has space whales capable of eating our sun in a single gulp
also, most fleets (craftworld, chaos warbands, imperial segmentum, tau sphere) have a complete arrangement of orbital stations (with guns) and ships of different sizes and capabilities (corvettes, frigates, etc.. all the way up to the redunkulous cathedral ships of the imperium) which would seriously fuck up an exiled fat rhino on his bling prison

I know that feel, every 40k makes me hate 40k more because it is so shit and still well liked.

They were basically building up towards it. Once they had the knowledge of doing so they basically put all of their efforts toward colonization and then eventually pushing out of the solar system (more so when the Darkness fell upon them)

I'm loving the idea of Orks adding a bunch of super loud engines to a space ship and loving the massive roar they hear on the inside.

While on the outside it's as silent as ever.

destiny is low tier in the sci-fi power scale, either Star Trek's federation or the old republic of star wars could fuck em up like the darkness cannot
the fallen are divided, under-equipped, disgraced scavengers barely scrapping a living
the cabal just recently arrived to the system and in such meager numbers ("the cabala has conquered more worlds than humanity has ever seen", seriously? those nigger have conquered all those planets and extracted their resources how come their armada didn't blackened the sky and they got a hold of every fucking place on Earth by numbers alone)
the hive are about as retarded as the chaos god of 40k both in power levels and in competence, they can fuck reality pretty much however they wants yet they fail to trample a bunch of chimps camping under the traveler
nothing wrong with low power levels, one of the themes in destiny is humanity barely avoiding extinction and trying to restore their golden age

>Please don't frame it like that. It sounds super lame.
Its basically what those fights are though. Each time a Guardian enters a raid to lay some one of the local godlike eldritch abominations, it's more or less a debate to see whose philosophy is truly greater. Be it the Sky, or the Deep.

OK, I see words, but have no idea what they mean. Explanaition for those who don't know shit about Destiny?

Big boss. Shoot alot get loot repeat. Deep lore very strong conquered 234344643537 universes.

>Being this ignorant.
Destiny Humanity -literally- survives only because the Traveler and the Light are utter bullshit. Most of the forces that they face aren't able to destroy them because they are either too weak (The Fallen), can't into Light (The Cabal, The Vex), or are straight up weakened by the power of the Light and can't bring their full power to bear (The Taken, The Vex, The Hive). Also Guardians are paracasual, which is the primary reason why they can kill fullblown dark Gods.

This is a massive oversimplication.

In regards to the Fallen the Guardians have had a century long campaign where they have destroyed the leadership of the various houses and prevented them from Rallying in any significant degree. The House of Wolves were held up by Mara Sov and the Reef and a good portion of thier fleet was destroyed by them.

The Hive have a command structure that allows the Hive gods to do what they do without having to take to the field to feed their worms. Part of the reason Oryx comes in wanting to bend over and fuck whoever killed Crota is because Crota was a big contributor to the line of tribute all Hive are made to give to their superiors.

Destroying the Line of tribute greatly weakened Oryx and allowed the Guardians to fight and ultimately win against him.

The Cabal initially only sent an expeditionary force and in spite of their efforts against the Vex ultimately pressed the panic button after Oryx fucked their shit side ways eventually bringing Ghaul into the picture.

>the cabal just recently arrived to the system and in such meager numbers ("the cabala has conquered more worlds than humanity has ever seen", seriously? those nigger have conquered all those planets and extracted their resources how come their armada didn't blackened the sky and they got a hold of every fucking place on Earth by numbers alone)
because we've ever only seen scout units, and even they were massive and well equipped enough to fight the vex to a standstill. The other is the equivalent of a Spetznas unit, and they were capable of blowing past anything we were capable of

the only reason that we haven't been completely destroyed like you said is because it's not worth it when a massive empire like the Cabal was ripped apart by civil war. it's not unreasonable to think that if they were to start a full scale invasion of the Solar System, they would crush us in short order

>Part of the reason Oryx comes in wanting to bend over and fuck whoever killed Crota is because Crota was a big contributor to the line of tribute all Hive are made to give to their superiors.
The rest of that reason was that Oryx had -genuinely- loved Crota, and wanted to absolutely -annihilate- whoever had been the one to slay him. Cosmic Horrors though they may be, one cannot say that the Hive Gods do not care about their family.

the reef, without any guardians aligned to it, has the technology to kill both guardians and their ghosts, so regular technology can kill guardians dead. and the traveler did jack shit to stop that
the hive has exhibitted the ability to strip guardians off their light and are about as paracausal as the guardians themselves. also, the traveler has done jackshit to prevent incidents like when Eris' fireteam attempted to kill Crota
the Vex might not have access to paracausal tech, but their tech can make guardian powers irrelevant like what happened to Kabr and his fireteam in the VoG
the cabal truly lack access to paracausal tech, but still by sheer numbers alone they should be able to stomp the whole Earth and every human & fallen on it if the claims that they have claimed multiple worlds is true
Oryx slapping the shit out of multiple Light-aligned civilizations (the Ecumenae for example) shows the hive and taken are not weakened by the pressence of the light, the light simply grants access to paracausal technology to be on even footing against them
the Fallen are the only ones who are at a true disadvantage and if the other forces weren't around fucking with humanity would have been expelled or pacified a long time ago

in destinyverse we know at least of two concepts, the light and the dark, which represent two different philosophies (adhering to rules of social order to enact flourishing and development for all versus survival of the fittest and most ruthless, respectively)
both have servants, the traveler being a servant, or possibly an avatar, of the light while the worms aligned with the hive seem to be servants of the darkness but not avatars of it (at least the darkness seems to have a talkative avatar who counseled Oryx a few times)
having access to either flavor allows you to not play reality by the rules, to have effects without causes, called paracausal tech
Calus from the cabal, a civilization not yet confirmed to have access to either flavor of space magic and the lattest raid Boss, exhibits powers which "could" be paracausal (or just really good tech), but it is unknown how he got them (maybe a darkness aligned hive agent like Savathun or an unknown light aligned agent, or even just his psions slaves capable of enacting paracausality without comitting to one side or the other)

You don't like the idea that the universe in engaged in a final debate as to what is the correct way to exist, and that instead of simply shooting big aliens in the head you're proving entire conceptions of reality wrong through sheer determination and desperation?

I mean, it's still war, not some stuff debate, but the overarching, larger picture is that whole schools of philosophy are viscerally slugging it out between each other, but with weapons and war rather than words and arguments. In this debate, it's not enough to defend your argument, but you must slaughter your opponent's. And by defeating those arguments, it means killing its adherents and foiling their foolproof plans to show how wrong they are, as well as ensure humanity's survival for another day.

If you're trying to understand how everything is framed from a motivation standpoint and thematic framing, then it's really important to understand what each event or fight represents. This means understanding what you, as the player, represent, and what the enemies and big bosses represent.

Portals to other solar systems, and even galaxies are mentioned in D1, possibly alluding to the fact that mankind had their hands in some extra-Solar colonization attempts before the Darkness fell on them.

Small autism: paracaual does not mean, "without cause." Acausal means, "without cause."

Paracausal would mean "somewhat caused," "cause adjacent," "kinda caused." Take your pick, it boils down to magic either way. A warlock throws a grenade and that grenade creates bolts of fire, or calls a lightning strike from a clear sky or makes void shards that seek enemies. We can see a cause, and an effect, but they don't operate by means or methods that make materialistic "sense."

Truly acausal things are like the Darkness itself as Rasputin observed it, events happen with no cause at all observed in any conceivable manner, or events precede a definite cause or nothing happens at all but gravitonic evidence says that something "should have" happened. That kinda shit

It seems like the destruction of a ghost makes the associated guardian mortal again, as I figured when reading about Felwinter's execution of Warlord Cigor(?).
And speaking of, the early days had guardians who were just assholes carving out their own territories on Earth. That sounds so much more interesting.

>paracaual does not mean...
i know, but that is Bungie's use of the term and i really think they are using to describe technology with effect that seems to lack an ultimate cause settled within the realms of the universe and its known laws

>A warlock throws a grenade and that grenade creates bolts of fire,
the warlock threw a ball of condensed "something" which is not a grenade if using the word used to describe our current explosive devices, from where did the matter and energy came from? not even they know, saying the source was the Warlock's connection with the Arc aspect of the Light is just handwaving, not even the Vanguard knows how their shit works

Lastly, the Light is just as acausal as the Darkness, nobody knows how the traveller managed to terraform the planets and moons it touched, shit like the wish dragons just popped out of nowhere

>It seems like the destruction of a ghost makes the associated guardian mortal again, as I figured when reading about Felwinter's execution of Warlord Cigor(?).
It does, as shown in the case of pic related who is probably going to suffer a fate worse than death in the future.

>unprotected contact with Vex technology just turns you into a Vex
I feel like they don't do a great job of showing how goddamn scary the things in this universe are. That's some great body horror right there.

The Ahamkhara are the worm gods, or juveniles of their ilk. The wish dragons are not your friends, oh reader mine.

He still has his ghost, Eris even sees it when she goes to visit him before she leaves.

>worm gods
>hunted to extinction
I doubt that. If anything they were eliminated because the only threat the posed was to the lie that the Traveler is benevolent.

>Paracausal and acausal

I think Bungie knows exactly what they're doing, because both words are used in the setting and they both refer to different stuff. Paracausal things have a cause -> effect relationship but it does not follow what physics says it should. Magic

Acausal things go even further than that and straight up do not work for any implementer other than the specific being doing the acausal thing or their direct representatives. The Darkness and its lieutenants the other gods of the Hive. Yes, the Light as done by the Traveler is acausal as well which lends credence to the idea that it is a god, or the representative of a god. I've come to the conclusion that I will move forward with calling acausal things Thaumaturgy, god-power, and paracausal things magic, the mortal implementation of god-power.

Well the Ahamkhara were *not* hunted to extinction, given that the writer of the bit that postulates they were was definitely an Ahamkhara itself ( "Oh reader mine"). And if the Ahamkhara were juveniles, or just lesser, members of the same race the worm gods are of then it makes perfect sense that their presence in the rocky worlds has been eradicated.

It's actually stated that the Ahamkara are in fact the Darkness' foremost agents in corrupting races into its service, via offering great power and knowledge of ancient secrets, often with a steep price. Ah, but do not worry. The Ahamkara are long gone.
Of That You can Be Assured, Oh Reader Mine

That leaves the Leviathan (the one from Fundament) and the Wish Dragons of the Harmoney. I don't think they are agents of Darkness so much as they are vastly more connected to the Light and Dark in ways other creatures arn't as evidence by the fact of the Wyrm Gods (if you believe them to be Ahamkara) and the aforementioned Leviathan that tried to talk Auresh and her sisters out of going to them.

They could all be the same "sort" of creature, just of different alignment, in the same way that Morgoth, Manwe, Sauron and Gandalf are still Ainur and angels and demons (Abrahamic ones at least) are the same "species."

it is implied they are related
the hive despise the Harmony using wish dragon because they are supposed to be their gods and their gods alone

Most of the later Metabarons could probably solo all of 40k without issue.

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This. 40k isn't nearly as strong as 40kids seem to think it is.

It's fucking bizarre how people seem to think 40k being the strongest is so important. It's schoolyard "X could beat Y" arguments but between 30-somethings who really should be more mature than that. I will admit that these threads CAN get interesting when there isn't shitflinging, though.

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it only fits because Destiny has a sort of "cognitive matter" approach to it
if you rack up enough magic or technology (preferably both) you can write or rewrite history in a very literal way, because it comes down to concepts, concepts like light and darkness, pain and endurance, worship and conversion, and so on
it almost an ancient Egyptian approach, where the word is the thing and the thing is the word, if you have the power and the belief and the ability to back up your claim

borderlands taken 100% seriously with no jokes.

That sounds stupid
>we don't like you, you're not military enough for us
>I don't like you, you're not peaceful enough for me
>yeah, well go the fuck away and take your planet eating war machine with you. That has no place in our military society
>fine, I'll take it and spread peace all over the place by eating planets.

Thanks!

The big players in Dr Who would probably be able to not only kill the 40k galaxy but possibly arrange matters so that it is surgically removed from history.

It was an utterly stupid thing from both sides. I still side with Calus more though, mostly because the Consul is a spineless, backstabbing wretch.

Well the emperor did cut his junk off and left him to die in the desert so maybe I can kind of feel where the consul’s head was on that part

>The big players in Dr Who
The Daleks and Time Lords maybe, but the rest of the Whovian setting I'm skeptical about.

Even then I'm not sure the Time Lords or Daleks have anything that can counter the Chaos Gods or Gork and Mork if they're going for the full remove from history angle (especially since to travel through time in 40k you have to go through the Warp aka the Warp gods' territory).

That doesn't make him any less of a petty, sadistic asshole who would rather his people become a tyrannical race that would then go on to fuck over -countless- others.

I mean, we're trying to define the Cabal by our human standards. They throw out the deformed runts of the litter as was the case with Ghaul until the Consul showed up. The Emperor still holds gladiator events and is apparently okay with us slaughtering his loyalist soldiers even though he's not present on the leviathan (maybe he is but he has his doom bots to stand in for him).

But then again that's what makes them cool is because they are complicated. Calus likes to recruit races with death sports while the old guard just wanted to skip straight to the military shit.

>The Emperor still holds gladiator events and is apparently okay with us slaughtering his loyalist soldiers even though he's not present on the leviathan (maybe he is but he has his doom bots to stand in for him).
I -think- it's stated that Calus is doing these death-matches mostly to prepare the Guardians for what they will face. To strengthen them against the coming storm. This is because Calus is one of the beings to have actually -seen- the Darkness, and is amongst even fewer to have straight up rejected it and it's honeyed words.

If a portion of the Cabal under Calus end up allying with the guardians I'm going to be stupid happy. I love their aesthetic and it seems like the only reason they aren't already is convoluted (and sometimes dumb) plot reasons. They don't worship the darkness, they should be allied with the guardians by like, default on some level.

Killed by Space Maroons as the finale of a three-part trilogy.

>Is there anything that wouldn't just get utterly raped if it were to suddenly enter the 40k universe?

Almost anything from a cape universe. The Shi'ar and Kree are fucking multi-galactic empires with planet killer weapons on their frigates. To be quite honest the X-Men themselves have had a few members that could solo 40K.

Tohaa and CA from Infinity could both establish themselves in the 40K galaxy.

PHR from Dropzone/fleet would quickly become OP if dropped into 40K. All they'd have to do is send an infiltrator to steal info from an Imperial source, then their ability to zip around instantly to anywhere in they have to coordinates for with no risk would let them settle down away from trouble and use their insane ability for development and production to perfect the technology and techniques of other races.

The humans from Gunbuster/Diebuster.

the Q could literally rape everything and rewrite the whole history of the entire universe