Is he dare I say, our last hope Veeky Forums?

Is he dare I say, our last hope Veeky Forums?

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He's dead though, slain by the hand of Big Girl Brienne the Beauty.

We don't support a Dark Lord nor a Kinslayer

We don't mention the tv series ever.

Stannis is our guy though.

Renly would have made a better king.

Which is why he wont ever sit the iron throne

>questions if he should support his own brother in the rebellion
>wants to imprison or murder captured nobles instead of ransoming them like anyone with a brain or a shred of honor would
>does nothing of significance during the rebellion, instead opting to starve his own people in Storm's End
>cuts the fingertips off the smuggler who saved not only his life but everyone who was still alive in his precious castle as reward
>sits in his castle while Ned routs the Tyrell forces
>after the war, he is given one simple objective, to capture the remaining Targaryen children and promptly fails
>despite this, Robert awards him Dragonstone, the former seat of House Targaryen
>Stannis rages at this, not considering the fact that Robert was expanding the influence of House Baratheon by adding significant lands to their holding and instead takes offense
>gets mad that Renly, a child, gets to safely be lord of Storm's End instead of himself
>doesn't even spend any time in Dragonstone because he's immediately appointed a position in the small council anyway but never stopped complaining to Robert about Storm's End
>outlaws prostitution on Dragonstone and encourages Robert to do the same in King's Landing despite brothels earning a significant amount of money and being a great source of entertainment for his brother
>suspects Robert's children may be illegitimate, tells Jon Arryn only, and then flees when Jon Arryn is murdered without telling anyone anything
>sits idly by while Ned gets his head cut off because he still holds a grudge against Ned for getting the glory of saving the day at the siege of Storm's End, even though Ned, in the end, supported him to become king
>gets no support from any of the Stormlords after he proclaims himself king
>outright refuses to ally with Robb Stark or Lysa Arryn
>shits his pants when Renly offers him a peach in peace, thinking his brother was going to draw his sword instead
>has him murdered by magic anyway
To hell with Stannis.

T. Lannister supporter

How? He could have taken King's Landing but decided to hold tourneys instead of dealing with Joffery

Brienne leave

Renly was an arrogant twat who tried to seize the throne from his rightful brother because he got talked into it by his twinky Lady MacBeth. He was a Lannister-tier backstabbing powergrabber. How anyone could think he would be a good king?

>t. showfag

That's a nice arguement you got there user.

No. Jaime Lannister is our last hope, in the show and the books.

>yfw show runners do some bullshit where Jaime gets his right hand back and he proceeds to fuck up everyone in the show

Better at what? Partying? Sure

>implying Renly could have out partied Bobby B

Bobby B was out of the running by that point. Too much boar

As long as he kills cersei and danerys, I'll be happy. He ascends the throne after killing two mad queens, with the title Queenslayer.

Yasss.

"I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?"

"I lost a hand, a father, a son, a sister, a lover, and soon I will lose a brother. And they still tell me that the Lannister Dynasty won this war."

"Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner."

Jamie deserved better.

>"Taxation is theft."

Weaterosi republic when?

Never: youtube.com/watch?v=H9U-rhVp1CQ

Incestuous child pusher is too good for this world

>does nothing of significance during the rebellion, instead opting to starve his own people in Storm's End
holding one of the most valuable positions in Westeros against a far superior army isn't a good idea?
>cuts the fingertips off the smuggler who saved not only his life but everyone who was still alive in his precious castle as reward
A punishment and reward in equal measure, most men would have either overlooked his crimes and also not given him a lordship or had him executed anyway.
>sits in his castle while Ned routs the Tyrell forces
"lmao just run out the castle gate, get fucking destroyed and let them take the castle"
>after the war, he is given one simple objective, to capture the remaining Targaryen children and promptly fails
they were smuggled out into Braavos by Ser Darry before the red keep even properly fell
>doesn't even spend any time in Dragonstone because he's immediately appointed a position in the small council anyway but never stopped complaining to Robert about Storm's End
being on the small council is a stressful and time-consuming job, who would've thought? maybe he should've never attended any meetings like Robert did?
>sits idly by while Ned gets his head cut off because he still holds a grudge against Ned for getting the glory of saving the day at the siege of Storm's End, even though Ned, in the end, supported him to become king
what the fuck was he going to do? single-handedly siege King's Landing? smuggle him out the black cells?
>outright refuses to ally with Robb Stark or Lysa Arryn
Robb went against his father's dying wish and Lysa is both batshit insane and denied Stannis the foster of Sweetrobin
>shits his pants when Renly offers him a peach in peace, thinking his brother was going to draw his sword instead
>has him murdered by magic anyway
he gave him until nightfall, he was killed at night. Renly cared more for the power of a king than the duty or who was the true heir.
fucking Renlyfags I swear

AZOR VICTARION WHEN

This shit has nothing to do with /Traditional Games/. Take it to Veeky Forums or /tv/, faggots.

>fantasy books and setting discussion has nothing to do with traditional games
>go to /tv/ and get shitposted to death
>go to Veeky Forums and get drowned out by psuedo-intellectual circlejerking by people who read to impress their peers instead of for entertainment

No, fuck you. That's worse, it would be better for the show if the walkers win, D&D can't write worth shit.

He's a coward, a kinslayer and a genuine idiot. Renly may have been young and foolish, but at least Renly could see the bigger picture. Renly was fighting for a better future because other people wanted him to, they pleaded with him to declare himself king. Stannis can't think of anything further than the present. Stannis fights for the throne because he thinks he deserves it, because he believes it's owed to him by right. The one time we see him think ahead, beyond his immediate ambition, he absolves himself of all responsibility and demands that his soldiers put his daughter on the throne. He's an entitled cunt without any redeeming qualities.

>Renly may have been young and foolish, but at least Renly could see the bigger picture
That's all he is. Young and foolish.
>Renly was fighting for a better future
He was fighting for his own vanity because a gay fuckwad whispered in his ear while penetrating him.
>Stannis can't think of anything further than the present
Except restoring the stability of the continent
>Stannis fights for the throne because he thinks he deserves it
He fights for it because it is his by rights and is willing to enforce his rightful claim.
> he absolves himself of all responsibility and demands that his soldiers put his daughter on the throne
He said so "IF" he dies his daughter is the rightful heir.

Renly is a plump lady boy with flights of fancy, who thinks "he can do better" without any evidence that he can do so, nor does he has any experience.

Jesus just stop, you're not making the Renly any less retarded and you're just making yourself look stupid.

>He's a coward, a kinslayer and a genuine idiot.
Cowards don't hold through a castle through the host of a kingdom and the entire Redwyne fleet. Nor do they charge alongside their men through one of the seven gates of the capital city. Idiots don't defeat the second greatest fleet in the Seven Kingdoms under the command of one of the best military leaders the Iron Islands has had in years. Kinslaying doesn't matter worth shit, Renly would have had his men killed and Stannis locked in a cell in a heartbeat if he refused to bend the knee.

>Renly was fighting for a better future because other people wanted him to, they pleaded with him to declare himself king.
He was fighting for his own influence, and the Tyrells wanted him on the throne because he supported them in kind and could be manipulated.

>Stannis can't think of anything further than the present.
I'll the take Battle of the Ice and rallying the Northern clans for 500, Alex.

>Stannis fights for the throne because he thinks he deserves it, because he believes it's owed to him by right.
>Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.
>I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark... Sacrifice... is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice.
He deserves it by being the legitimate heir of the former king, by his prowess as a military commander and by the loyalty he inspires in those under him. Force at arms made Robert's claim, as it makes Stannis'.

>Renly may have been young and foolish
No argument here

>but at least Renly could see the bigger picture
There is no supporting evidence for this, he was a vainglorious pomp. He was weak willed, easily influenced and would of brought scandal, shame and trouble with his secret love.

>Renly was fighting for a better future because other people wanted him to, they pleaded with him to declare himself king
Central point of the books is literally spelled out for you, just because he is honest and pure is by no means a lanyard to measure a ruler or his rule. He could be fighting for the love of rocks for all I care.

>Stannis can't think of anything further than the present. Stannis fights for the throne because he thinks he deserves it, because he believes it's owed to him by right.
He fights for law and order, the crown legally passed to him, he enforces rule in both spirit and letter. Neither wanted, nor asked for it, but the law of the realms demand him.

>The one time we see him think ahead, beyond his immediate ambition, he absolves himself of all responsibility and demands that his soldiers put his daughter on the throne
Withstanding a siege that most of the strongest commanders of men are in awe of? Shattering the armies of usurpers and lawbreakers alike? If you believe none of these require forethought and sound judgement then I can see why you support Renly

>He's an entitled cunt without any redeeming qualities.
He has many redeeming qualities, it is simply you do not value them. All of which are qualities you want in a monarch, strength of will, upholding of law and order, spartan in his consumption of resources, be it food or coin.

Renly and Stannis are both shitty choices for king.

Renly was a short-sighted fairy who saw leadership as essentially a popularity contest. He amassed a massive army by enlisting Mace Tyrell, a shameless opportunist with no true loyalties. Once Renly was gone, they all switched sides. Say what you will about Stannis but at least he commanded genuine loyalty.

However, Stannis is also a shitty leader in his own way. He's a joyless autist obsessed with rules and would run things like an iron-fisted dictator. This is why Veeky Forums likes him--he's a power fantasy for neckbeards who think they're the next Machiavelli. But no one in the realm would tolerate him for long and he'd immediately find himself subject to a rebellion. His only way of really holding the realm is if when Jon comes back he decides he does want Winterfell.

Jaime Lannister and Jon are the only ones with the makings of quality leaders right now. And even then the former's reputation precedes him too much and the latter is too focused with the real threat no one else is paying attention to.

>Cowards don't hold through a castle through the host of a kingdom and the entire Redwyne fleet.
Holding a defensive position is quite easy when your only other option is to surrender. His pride couldn't take it and I'd imagine his reputation for advocating murder of highborn prisoners may have caught up with him if he did get captured.

>Nor do they charge alongside their men through one of the seven gates of the capital city.
TV series only. In the books, only a very small number of his men manage to get away. So few, in fact, that they begin killing one another. Meaning, like the tried and true coward he is, he positioned himself somewhere that he could board Salladhor's ships in a haste and flee.

>Idiots don't defeat the second greatest fleet in the Seven Kingdoms under the command of one of the best military leaders the Iron Islands has had in years.
They sure can when they have the entire royal fleet behind them and they're attacking glorified pirates.

>Kinslaying doesn't matter worth shit, Renly would have had his men killed and Stannis locked in a cell in a heartbeat if he refused to bend the knee.
Here's where I know you're a retard, or a roleplayer, or both. Renly offered peace, Stannis offered war. Instead of fighting, Stannis turned to magic and consorted with unnatural forces to achieve something no greater than a knife in his own brother's back.

>He has many redeeming qualities, it is simply you do not value them.
You're right, I don't value those who consort with demons, cowards, traitors, idiots, weak men or anyone who thinks their birth guarantees them the right to rule over others just because.

>strength of will
A petty psychopath isn't willful.

>upholding of law and order
Except for himself.

>spartan in his consumption of resources, be it food or coin
Ah yes, so spartan in his consumption of coin and food that he has already turned to the iron bank for coin and raiding his future subject's farmlands for food.

Jaime is also hated by a good chunk of the realm for his role in the Lannister-Stark war, his admittedly tenuous connection to the Riverlands massacres committed by Tywin's bannermen, and his actions in the Rebellion which, while more than justified, were still suspicious to a lot of people. And of course his attachment to Cersei who everyone can agree is a shit would-be ruler.
And Jon isn't without his flaws either, putting love before duty and having more honour than brains, even if the latter is shared by ol Baldy McFrownface.

My general thought is Jon sobered up a lot by the time he got shish-kebabed and when he eventually comes back he'll have things better figured out.

My general perspective is Jon is very similar to his uncle Benjen, who as Jaime once said had actual blood instead of ice water in his veins.

>Uncle Benjen

Fuck I meant uncle Brandon, Ned's older brother.

>Holding a defensive position is quite easy when your only other option is to surrender. His pride couldn't take it and I'd imagine his reputation for advocating murder of highborn prisoners may have caught up with him if he did get captured.
Stannis has literally never executed a highborn prisoner before the WotFK, and only advocated it with the Greyjoys. Besides, the other option of surrender would bring eternal disgrace to the reputation of House Baratheon and allow the loyalists a massive foothold in the Stormlands.

>TV series only.
Well sorry if a mistook you for a showfag. :^)
>In the books, only a very small number of his men manage to get away. So few, in fact, that they begin killing one another. Meaning, like the tried and true coward he is, he positioned himself somewhere that he could board Salladhor's ships in a haste and flee.
Yes, turns out that having 90% of your fleet blown up in a maverick plan that nobody really expected to work is a major pitfall. And you might wanna reread chapter 58, Stannis was on the southern end of the bay, i.e. closest to the fighting.

>They sure can when they have the entire royal fleet behind them and they're attacking glorified pirates.
Glorified pirates don't conquer the entirety of the Riverlands and build Harrenhal. Nor do they manage to annihilate the entire Lannister fleet in a single blow. Nor do they breed the likes of Euron and Victarion. Don't be a twat.

>Renly offered peace, Stannis offered war. Instead of fighting, Stannis turned to magic and consorted with unnatural forces to achieve something no greater than a knife in his own brother's back.
Peace under a king with no claim, or war against an injustice? Renly was only crowned in Highgarden due to his popularity amongst the Reach nobles, who are infamously willing to change sides when shit goes south. His only right was being Loras' buttboy.

>Glorified pirates don't conquer the entirety of the Riverlands and build Harrenhal

Nigger that was like what, 300 years before the events of the book? It's clearly obvious the Iron Islands are a shadow of their former selves. What with how everyone there wants to act like dumb sea orcs who do nothing but steal food from productive members of society.

Defeating them was definitely a feat but don't pretend Stannis the second coming of Aegon the Conqueror. And I say this as someone who doesn't hate Stannis.

He isn't the second coming of Aegon, but he's a respectable military commander roughly on par with Tywin, and the "ironbabby" shit is mostly a show thing since they cut all the ironborn characters worth a fuck barring Euron, Theon and Asha. Calling him an idiot and taking tidbits out of context is completely asinine.

I never said he was an idiot. He's a competent military commander considering 1) Renly dead and he didn't, and 2) after the buttfucking he got at King's Landing he recovered remarkably well.

The ironborn being fuckwits isn't a show meme though. They're only really successful because they're preying on a land ravaged by a destructive ongoing civil war. I doubt they'd fare well against a Westeros with its shit together. I wouldn't cite Victarion as some kind of hardcore dude either. He's just a violent moron commanding a bunch of other violent morons. Still entertaining.

Stannis is a competent military leader but that doesn't make him a good king by default. Running a kingdom like an army is how you piss people off. Piss enough people off and it gets harder and harder to brute force the kingdom into submission.

Oh, that wasn't you but the other dude. Still, while the current ironborn are still shadows of their former selves, there's still some very competent commanders amongst them like Euron, Rodrik and Harras Harlaw, and the Blacktydes and Goodbrothers. And Victarion may be dumb, but if there's one thing he knows, it's killing people, and if there's another it's sailing.

When it comes to Stannis being a good king I'd feel that would mostly be down to the company he keeps and if he can inspire the same level of loyalty in them that he does in his current bannermen, he's a good military commander and inspires loyalty beneath the layers of cold asshole, but of course most nobles couldn't give a rats ass about that.

Stannis lacks any kind of social grace, which is absolutely necessary for successful leadership. Even some of history's most ironclad dictators could be friendly with people.

You're not gonna win much personal support when you maim the people who save your life. As I said before, Stannis's best hope for successful leadership lies with Jon. We'll see if he drops the ball on that when Jonny boy comes back.

People have a simplistic understanding of the concepts of duty and justice fail to encapsulate Stannis’s complexity, both personally and in the execution of his responsibilities as a king.

Stannis holds to the belief that without sovereignty, justice and duty are impossible.

Therefore pursuit of sovereignty takes precedence over the application of fair justice and honor.

However, Stannis must almost always present the appearance of fair justice, honor and duty; an important element of safely held kingship.

This dogmatic public persona has both diplomatic and military significance.

Keep telling yourself that the next book is going to go SOOOO differently than the series. The showrunners were given the broad-strokes plan for the rest of the story. If they were able to kill him off without disrupting the broad strokes, then he isn't going to have much of an impact anymore. You know that.

The show runners are under no legal obligation to actually remain faithful to what GRRM said, they are making a show the normans will watch, not what GRRM wants.

...

Veeky Forums is a joke.

It is, doubles guy
It really is

\Lit\fag here, keep your shitty genre fiction edgefest off our board, thank you.

And they have no incentive to deviate in major ways, and doing so would give up a major asset in the form of a pre-written plot handed to them on a silver platter. Your insistence that despite five novels going largely identically to the series, the last two are going to diverge in major ways that change the core plot, just because you personally don't like what happened in the series, is just impotent wishful thinking.

What did he mean by this

You ever been to Veeky Forums? They hate everything that's not non-fiction

God no, it's as bad as /tv/
All I'm saying is that the trash book belongs on that particular trash board
Not this trash board
And not /trash/, they're too good for that

>it's a Veeky Forums reads to show how smart they are instead of reading what they like chapter
I'm not the biggest fan of GRRM but admitting you browse Veeky Forums is like admitting you browse /b/ or /pol/ still

>Veeky Forums triggered
wtf i love george rr martin now

When Stannis has his final council at Castle Black, he makes it clear to Jon Snow that his initial mission against the Dreadfort has a basis in history:

“Without a son of Winterfell to stand beside me, I can only hope to win the north by battle. That requires stealing a leaf from my brother’s book. Not that Robert ever read one. I must deal my foes a mortal blow before they know that I am on them.”
— JON IV, A DANCE WITH DRAGONS
Here we see that Stannis hopes to ‘win the north’. The word choice is very important, his goal is not to defeat Bolton but to rally the northerners to his banner.

But how would capturing the Dreadfort rally the north?

Obviously capturing the Dreadfort would be tremendous. It could sway loyalties and do all sorts of irreparable damage to Bolton’s position.

But I have a problem with such a simplistic understanding: it fails to appreciate why Stannis specifically said it was a strategy borrowed from his brother Robert. Put it this way, capturing anybody’s castle is a sure way to upset local politics and perhaps earn supporters.

So then, why did Stannis mention stealing his strategy from Robert? What famous Robert strategy was it?

The truth is this:

Stannis was referring to Robert’s famous march on Summerhall, where he arrived early and defeated three armies in quick succession.

In particular, it is well-known that Robert’s exploits on that day famously made his enemies into allies almost overnight. We are reminded of this elsewhere in A Dance with Dragons:

“Robert would have done it in ten,” Asha heard Lord Fell boasting. His grandsire had been slain by Robert at Summerhall; somehow this had elevated his slayer to godlike prowess in the grandson’s eyes. “Robert would have been inside Winterfell a fortnight ago, thumbing his nose at Bolton from the battlements.”
— THE KING’S PRIZE, A DANCE WITH DRAGONS
Returning to Stannis’s initial plans for the Dreadfort, you can see why Robert’s actions at Summerhall are a perfect source of inspiration. Not only does the Battle of Summerhall consist of a surprise march and subsequent attack, but it also entails rapidly converting foes into allies. Thus Robert’s feat at Summerhall is undeniably what Stannis was referring to when he talked about “winning the north by battle”.

* * *

Despite all of Stannis’s plans for the Dreadfort, Jon Snow warns of the perils of such an attack and ultimately provides the king with a better alternative.

This would suggest that identifying Stannis’s admiration for the Battle of Summerhall was a wasted effort. But as we will see much later, Stannis’s desire to borrow from Robert does not vanish altogether.

>Renly planned on taking the throne for himself before he even knew about joffrey being a lannister bastard

Renly was an irredeemable piece of shit and deserved his fate.

>Moqorro gives him a lava hand
>When Jaime draws his Valerian sword it catches on fire

>Moqorro
>working with the Lannisters
whut? he's on team seanigger

I like the show better.

>It's another thread about nothing
>Le our guy meme
Exactly how this relates with any for of the hobby, aside of course shitposting?

I thought RPGs were just shitposting in person?

As if that would stop show's writters...

This... is a good description

Reminder that the ironborn used to be the greatest threat in the seven kingdoms and built the greatest castle there has ever been
Then the hoares died

Daily Reminder Stannis defeated the ironborn in the sea.

The ironborn where dumb ironniggers by the time the greyjoys took over
Its an impressive feat but doing that to the hoares would have been more impressive

They hate Eveything

The comic sans is a nice touch

Never