What bothers me about the current trend of "diversity in gaming" isn't the diversity in itself...

>but it certainly feels like rich culture and education should provide a shield against consumerisn
They do. But those are fairly rare.

>Slight derail

If you had to keep the current plot where it is and heading, but could cut out characters to help stream line the story. Who would cut?

>Please try to avoid just cutting characters because you hate them. I know Jace is a big name on that list.
That said. I do feel like Jace participating as a main character should have came to an end, and he sit back in Ravnica as the living guild pact until we have a reason to bother him again.

What does Veeky Forums think?

Literally the same thing. Everything that can be commodified will be. The rich will continue to try (and succeed) to coopt your experiences, emotions, and -again- everything else. They'll continue to exploit their employees labour in the pursuit of capital. Either accept it or develop class consciousness

See, part of me thinks that it shouldn't matter. Pick whatever appearance and gender you want as long as the rest of the character is interesting.

Then another part says of course these things matter, and they cannot be plucked at random but need to be woven in carefully to the character and those elements should serve some tiny purpose if they are worth mentioning.

Maybe it's setting-dependent. Medieval Europe, or not!Spain, etc, it might matter more.

What other games are guilty of this?
Ive heard pathfinder has it bad. Then GW doesnt give a flying fuck about what its current customers want

>Gideon
>Liliana
>White
And Nissa and Ajani aren't even human

Also gingera had been more persecuted than blacks

Pathfinder has "minorities" in a Schrodinger box, they're persecuted and praised at the same time

Liliana is white. I dont know where the fuck Maro got that she was meant to be Persian ish.

Maybe her long nose and sharp face, she's also mostly insanely pale due curses and shit

Biggest sin is "black greeks" sort of deal or adding blacks and whites to cards that represent one faction and giving appearance of multi culti society. It would be ok if it had consistency.

Her nose doesnt strike me as nptoceably long and sharp features arent inherently a festure thst can only be tied to middle eastern people. The main reason I question is because of how very obvious it was when they wanted to make it clear Gideon was nonwhite. We also got bits and pieces of archicture and lore from her spot of Dominaria which also did not seem particular persian inspired. Compare to Abzan for example.

The castle in her creature card strikes me as Spanish or Italian

Basically this. There has to be a way to strike back against these assholes, let them know the market doesn't want this.

It's weird, it's like they're deliberately ignoring the perspective of their largest audience to push their agenda. Why? What does it get them?

That shit is Constatinoplan as fuck

Its probably just generically european like most fantasy castles, as she is from Dominaria. .

>But rather that it's such a transparent marketing ploy.
No you don't, you don't actually care.
You are just racist.
If companies were going "no niggers allowed" or "whites only" you would see no problem with it right along with most of the early 1900's America.
Now that the pendulum has swung the other way ( rather than "whites only" it's "at least 1 non-white needed" ) you are throwing a shitfit.
Why can't you just admit you are racist?

Create a game studio that soits directly in the face of diversity and being That Guy who dare you to enter their magical realm?

Given how they are relying on PR to fluff their games. We need a bunch of competent enpugh and dedicated designers to make the most problematic and critic's worse nightmare while not giving a single fuck or even provoking them to be successful

>Liliana
>not white

>If companies were going "no niggers allowed" or "whites only" you would see no problem with it right along with most of the early 1900's America.
Well, the difference is that is an implied rule, rather than a codified one, based on "marketing".
It's the same reason why you will rarely see anyone other than a white dude on the cover of a book. I mean, the Alex Cross series by Patterson, one of the longest running series with a black protag, has NEVER featured him on the cover, despite being entirely about him.

> I mean, the Alex Cross series by Patterson, one of the longest running series with a black protag, has NEVER featured him on the cover, despite being entirely about him.
This isn't really weird, I can image novel covers that don't feature the protagonist on them for whatever reason.
It's possibly racism, but I'd say it's more likely to be a stylistic choice.

>All middle Eastern, Persian in this case, are full Congolese
Travel more, or use google search

Its hard to tell purely from art alone. Their designs are just not consistent enough. But it just feels odd to me how hard they tried to push that gideon was mediterranean and nonwhite in comparison. Maybe we'll learn for certain that Maro wasn't misremembering or something come Dominaria where we will probably get more in depth worldbuilding on her continent od Dominaria. They didn't quite have Kaladesh totally nailed down yet by Origins (iirc theres no natural aether swirls everywhere for example) so its possible that they just went generic fantasy stuff for Dominaria.

How can they matter? In our world, whites, niggers, Chinese etc are the way they are because of the history of their peoples - what has happened to the groups from which they derive their culture. Not because of how much pigment is in their skin. Not how wide their noses are. History decides.

Unless fantasy whites and fantasy Indians and whatever have a very similar history, it's just going to be a question of that they look the same as some real world person. Nothing more. Jace looks like he could be from let's say Boston, in the real-world US, but he's not. He shares nothing but his appearance with some guy who actually is from there.

Marketing research decrees that having a nonwhite person on the cover is enough to tank sales of a book, and publishers will ignore even a direct author decree to do so.

Persian is a Pokémon, retard.

Liliana's creature card shows something that happened a long ass time ago. Since then, Dominaria has been through at least the time rifts and mending. Even if we happen to focus on her home there's little reason for anything but ruins in an apocalyptic wasteland to remain.

Most research into cultural norms strongly suggest that the media you consume will subtly alter how you view people irl.
It's why implicit bias is a thing, why black children find white dolls more appealing than black dolls, etc. Ignoring that means you are ignoring how the world can influence your basest decisions.
I mean, shit, black people don't trust black people as a general rule because they consume the same media as white people and absorb the same subtle biases, despite knowing full well they can be full of shit.

As a racist, i do not feel confortable giving money to proven traitors to Humanity.
You can fund the extinction of Humanity if you wish with your own money, but i will have no part in it.

But companies in gaming, both vidya and tabletop, never went "no niggers allowed" or "whites only". The entire gaming subculture itself is already an ostracized community and changing the gender and race of long running characters without understanding the history behind them insults your core audience for empty appearances.

>If companies were going "no niggers allowed" or "whites only" you would see no problem with it
That'd depend on largely on the setting. If they did a Viking set and there were only white characters, then I'd probably not care. If they did a West Africa inspired set and filled it with only white characters, then I would be upset.

No, I mean... should it be a part of any setting, and how much should characters be affected by it? Because any fantasy culture we dream up will have some standards, traditions, ideas, etc. Should authors bother taking those things into account or should they just make places and characters that look cool?

I prefer it when authors are true to their original vision. Like, if you want to make your novel a diverse multicultural rainbow, that's cool with me: I won't read it, but I respect you for that.

Meanwhile, don't kick up a fuss when I read another author's book about Aryan ubermensch. That way, we're all happy.

>But companies in gaming, both vidya and tabletop, never went "no niggers allowed" or "whites only"
Yeah it's just a coincidence that video games and tabletop only really developed well past the civil rights era America.

Blacks don't trust blacks not because media bias.
It's because you can't trust niggers, and blacks know this the best.
Fucking niggers will pretend to be your best friend and still steal from you and smile to your face later.

This. Ask a nigger what he thinks about black people, and he'll tell you that they can't be trusted an inch.

>comics, vidya and ttrpgs wer racist thats why we have to saturate the media with rainbow colors without caring about backgrounds or anything and we f possible with the most bland personalities and backstories
But comics, vidya and ttrpgs were never racist
>yeah because they appeared in modern society
Chose a narrative and stay with it

"Diversity" in fiction equals the death of creativity and originality.

Rainbow colors are worse than racism, in that it strips all individuality out of a story. A story that's too 'diverse' strips out all creativity, all heart and all verisimilitude.

Like female black Nazis in Call of Duty.

>Nobody bat an eye when Visions, Arabian nights or Kamigawa appeared
>Now if you even imply a white only settings you'll be marked as racist

>comics, vidya and ttrpgs wer racist thats why we have to saturate the media with rainbow colors without caring about backgrounds or anything and we f possible with the most bland personalities and backstories
*products of a racist society so accidentally include racial biases therefore a conscious effort is needed to overcome these inconspicuous racial biases
>Chose a narrative and stay with it
White boy can't understand it's possible to be racist without intending to be.

Because the only people who are whining for a white only setting just happen to be racist.
You are complaining about fictional non-white people in fucking fantasy setting.
You are literally That Guy, who finds non-whites more immersion shattering than fucking wizards and dragons and potatoes.

Man, I'm glad I'm a racist. If I wasn't already one, I guess I would have to be.

>If we make Greeks and Egyptians black we aren't racist

So what if some of us are racist or sexist. I wish more authors are like that just to rub it in the face of politically correct.

>why can't there be black people in Vorostokov
>you must be a racist
>fuck you TSR, you racists
I'm glad Lorraine Williams was motivated by base greed and not the shit that infested White Wolf.

Yeah, that's the problem. It is impossible to make up for the 'original sin' of racism. Isn't everyone tired of making up for it?

We should own up to it, and state, boldly, that we've paid enough and we're not sorry. We can't be sorry FOREVER, that just means you're carrying a burden for all time. We're done enough for the blacks and natives that any guilt has long been discharged.

I know I don't feel remotely guilty for doing what we needed to be on top.

>there aren't allowed to be white only settings
Don't you have a book burning to go to?

>100% Asian kamigawa? ok
>100% White vikingland which name I don't remember? bad
You're mentally corrupted

>it's just a coincidence that video games and tabletop only really developed well past the civil rights era America.

Because it literally is a coincidence.

Paid what, exactly?
The only people who have really owned their past dickishness are the Germans.
>said no one

I wonder when Blacks and Middle Easterns are going to pay foe the European, African and Arab slave market which was worse and lasted way longer. than the transatlantic one

Everyone is racist, it's just a matter of identifying where and when you are. And the SJWs you are complaining about are just putting that idea into practice and making a conscious effort to overcome that bias.
>So what if some of us are racist or sexist. I wish more authors are like that just to rub it in the face of politically correct.
Because Nazis and white supremacists will use social acceptable racism as an excuse for authoritarian government. Easier to just categorically reject racism than have to think uncomfortable and nuanced subjects such as "blacks have lower IQs than whites and it is genetics but that shouldn't matter concerning human rights" because most people aren't intelligent enough to think that way.
Caring that there are no white-only settings is what is frowned about. Literally only racists even care.
>Sports were segregated pre-civil rights.
>Businesses were segregated
>Entertainment was mostly segregated
Yeah it's just a coincidence post-civil rights entertainment is less segregated than pre-civil rights entertainment which was.

Theres nothing you can do as a white person to atone for fictious "crimes". Because you aren't making the call.
White liberals and racists minorities are speaking for white people. The only solution is to throw them out of helicopters etc.
The only solution is t

I cut off your hands, but I gave you a sandwich and an interview to be a sign language interpreter. That means we're good and you're a dumbass form not getting the job.

>was worse
Expand on this argument.

You actually sound mentally ill lol

More millions of slaves
Arab slave market is around 18 millions, transatlantic waa around 11

See, this is why we Singaporeans think Myanmar is doing the right thing. The only solution is to thoroughly remove kebab.

If you want to keep your country yours, you have to show no mercy.

>What is chess
>What is Go
>What are poker cards

>Chess
>White goes first
heh

>transatlantic waa around 11
That's a fairly conservative estimate, since records by Dutch jewish merchants put losses during transport at 30 million+.

Which one is the most relevant to America though?
Hmm...maybe it's the one that literally caused a civil war.

>companies making a living on selling crack try to get more people addicted

Is this one of those Us-problems, where you gotta explain to them that most of the world hasn't been involved in a decade-long race war to make drug consumption white?

This is reminding me of some anti-white racist that claimed whites have killed over 200 million people since 2000.

that number is bullshit high, that would be the entire population of Africa back then. That's like those ""records"" saying Spanish Inquisition burned 20 million witches when Spain barely had 10 million population back then

Are you going to claim fairly fastidious mercantile records are false now, user?

The user said the same thing about the 200 million. Are you that user?

Shaniqua, your ancestors sold you out, maybe you should blame them too, also mtg and other tg hobbies aren't for North Americans only

>believing numbers presented by Jews
Hm...

>that would be the entire population of Africa back then
>only 30 million people across an entire continent
And what reason would merchants have to exaggerate on their personal profit records?

>I'll go to an american board talking about a predominantly american hobby and then complain when people assume anonymous is american.

>believing jews would lie about their own money
You need to pick a set of bullshit to promulgate.

And has been proven that they burned less than 100 people out of 120000 trials

No i'm saying your numbers are bullshit racism from you and you have no credible source.

>American board

>Jews domimated cloning back then

Again, that was above thw entire population of Africa back then. You're overestimating the number of people there were in Earth back then

Sources? I haven't been able to find anything but assertions about who individual slave traders actually were. No hard evidence. Almost like they or their descendants didn't want that information to be seen.

Ive been in this argument before with these people they believe the worlds population hasn't changed in two thousand years.

you seriously sound retarded.

You're right but I'm still going to assume that I hate you

Implicit bias has been debunked, none of the implicit bias studies can be repeated reliably.

Stereotype accuracy on the other hand...

spsp.org/news-center/blog/stereotype-accuracy-response

>you have no credible source
The Dutch keep those records as historical documents, and they are a google search away.

Even if you don't believe the numbers the Arab slave market lasts for more than a millenia

>records by Dutch jewish merchants put losses during transport at 30 million+.
Pretty shit merchants if they can manage to lose more than half the 1700 population of the Spanish Empire (estimated to be 55 million). That's also more than thrice the population of the British Empire at the same time (~9 million).

mortenjerven.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/AfricanPopulation.Methods.pdf

So you can show them then? Good. Go right ahead post the proof or kys.

law.virginia.edu/pdf/faculty/ReassessingPredictiveValidityoftheIAT.pdf

Here's the source on Implicit Bias not being a real thing.

Please post this when you see some shithead trying to make a "reasonable" sounding point based on horrible science done by innumerates with an axe to grind.

>White people forcing diversity on white people to assuage their white guilt whilst being called pieces of shit by other white people

Whats funny is that Whites are the true minority. 13% of the worlds population.

>can literally google them and read for yourself
>I'm ignorant and choose to remain ignorant, but will argue from my ignorance
No thanks, I'm not here to educate fools. Even if I posted sources, you'd say something like it's fake or some other shit, or better, cherrypick something else to try and refute me like .
I know better than to try wage historical arguments on the internet with people who wear their agenda on their sleeve, so I'm gonna bow out of this.
Have a good day!

Odd, lets assume for ever 100 slaves they lost 1 dutch in the sunk boat, thats 300000+ dutches who died in sunken boats, population of Deutschland back then was 1 million

>I'm not here to educate fools
Then why did you enters the discussion in the first place?