Let's take onto the last thread >>55566370

So let's say Arthas manages to keep a cool head at Stratholme, convince Uther that the town is infected and something needs to be done fast, and the three of them (Arthas, Jaina, and Uther) come up with a plan that they all agree on -- let's say a strict, effective quarantine. What happens? Does Lordaeron still end up getting fucked?

Well yeah it's dumb as shit but it can be fun if you ignore the most extreme tardery (including basically everything after vanilla WoW). Plus there are some neat concepts that could be cool if written better or given just a bit of thought.

You are aware that Vol'jin was killed because Alliance players couldn't handle Vol'jin surviving while Varian didn't and changed it at the last moment? It's pretty obvious when you take into account that somehow High King of the Alliance became for some reason hereditary, and yet it's Genn who gives pvp related quests.

That and Blizzard just had to SOMEHOW enforce pvp into lore, though we could have that even without Sylvanas being Warchief, just by leading expedition to Stormheim.

If The Burning Legion exists in all timelines does that mean after we defeat them in Legion (the xpac) do we automatically save all other alternate timelines as well?

No, this is already old.

Apparently, what gave the Legion's infinite power was the enslaved Titan soul. After this xpac's end, the BL might as well be done for good.

There are still good elements in the lore, alongside bad ones. It's just that the bad ones are usually related to the main plotline.
And I do not think that anyone here defends entirety of lore.

For example, I kinda like concept of Drogbar (Trolls that likely got changed with power of either Neltharion the Earth-Warder or Hammer of Khaz'goroth), but they went a bit overboard with certain elements (the lift thing is kinda annoying, brul). Shame they didn't gave them proper voices.

No, it means Blizzard will step in and fudge the results and outright retcon things so no matter how badly the players stomp them the Legion will have succeeded at some mysterious secondary goal that was never even hinted at before.

Technically, alternative timelines collapse onto themselves really fast usually, but the magical sand from Timeless Isle and later connecting WoD Draenor's Dark Portal into the one in Azeroth prime stabilized it. Legion was one and the same, basically using second chance

From what I understood, power of Argus allows to regenerate demons much faster than what they would require normally.

>and outright retcon things so no matter how badly the players stomp them the Legion will have succeeded at some mysterious secondary goal that was never even hinted at before.
Sounds like Abaddon's Black Crusades.

Games Workshop's handling of Chaos events was what I was referencing, yes

Let’s talk Panda role play Veeky Forums.

I’m doing the monk order hall class and if Aysa and Ji are back at the wandering isle together does that mean they left the Alliance and Horde after Siege of Orgrimmar? If so who are our Pandaren characters supposed to be? Individuals who stayed behind because of friends?

>From what I understood, power of Argus allows to regenerate demons much faster than what they would require normally.
I got that too, but new patch suggested without the Titan's essence, the demons would got a thorough power cut, and not only in one reality instance.

Not playing WoW currently, my lore research comes from data-mining and such, so maybe I'm mistaken there.

kys

To be completely honest, I have not reached the moment that finally fully explains connection between Legion's respawn feature and Argus, though we do know from Chronicles that Demons could always respawn.

Also, can anyone tell me where it was confirmed that Archimonde got permanently killed in WoD's Hellfire Citadel?

On mythic level difficulty he is killed in the nether.

That's a good question.

She's done a great number of things wrong. If she hadn't, she wouldn't be fucking dead. Undead. Whatever.

It's a horrifically broken setting written by people who clearly shouldn't be doing so, but there are a great deal of elements that I'd like to see salvaged or improved.

>^ BlizzCon 2015 - Interview with Dave Kosak. "And the idea was if you played in Mythic and defeated Archimonde, you actually defeated him in the Nether and that he'd be dead dead for good. That was the idea that we played with. We tried to explain that and I don't know if... that certainly doesn't come across in-game because it's not necessarily explained in-game."
So that's how it is. No wonder I missed that fact, it's barely noticeable.

Lordaeron still gets fucked, but there'll still be a Lordaeron afterwards. Broken to the point of near-collapse, but still nation that exists.

The real question is what that means for the stuff happening in Kalimdor.

>but there are a great deal of elements that I'd like to see salvaged or improved.
Personally, I am fully aware that by this point we have no chance for WarCraft 4 as continuation, so I would like to see new WarCraft RTS that would explore of wars in the past. Nothing would be as refreshing as campaign of Trolls against Aqir.

Either little Andy marries and puts an heir in her or Wrathion is going to use some dragon magic to plant an heir in him.

That's what I fear, somehow they will push the progressive shit and make him a fag, when I remember he lost his cherry to a dwarven priestess.

Like said, it'd still get fucked. I can't remember, had Arthas killed Kel'Thuzad by that point?
Either way, Kel's Cult of the Damned would still be running around Lordaeron spreading the Plague.

>The real question is what that means for the stuff happening in Kalimdor.
Well, Thrall would still lead the Horde over there and form his alliance with the Tauren and Darkspear Trolls.
But they probably wouldn't have a human threat showing up because there's plenty of human drama back in the Eastern Kingdoms.

The real question is what would Mal'Ganis, Ner'Zhul and the rest of the Legion forces do to convince that hothead Arthas to go to Northrend and rub his dick on Frostmourne?
Just grab it themselves and go "Oops! I dropped this incredibly powerful sword right in front of you! Completely by accident! I sure hope no righteous princes come and claim it before I have a chance to get it! Oh no!"

Knowing Kel'5Thuzad, he's just that much of a clown to go and do that specifically withthose lines. Apparently his lichdom came with a dozen funny bones and a need to tickle all of them every hour.

P U N I S H E D G E N N

>Just grab it themselves and go "Oops! I dropped this incredibly powerful sword right in front of you! Completely by accident! I sure hope no righteous princes come and claim it before I have a chance to get it! Oh no!"
What if Uther picks it up?

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the darkest of days, the toughest of terrors, blah blah, Uther the Darkbringer would have been a thing.

The Lightbringer would have cockslapped the sword and bent it to his own will.
Then marched to Northrend and shoved a glorious holy boot up Ner'zhul's frozen ass.

I still don't understand why Uther got his panties so twisted over that. Hadn't they been fighting the Scourge for a while by that point? He should've known everyone there was dead and while the task was grim it certainly seemed necessary.

I understand Jaina getting mad because she was a carebear back then but Uther should've known better. Arthas betraying his men to hunt for Mal'ganis should've been what made Uther fuck off.

Uther wasn't quite desperate enough to purge a city and consign thousands to death for the chance that a few might still be saved.
He's still under the coda that it's better than a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man should suffer.

It's been years but IIRC Uther had been elsewhere during the serious shit that had led up to that. IIRC he didn't know about the infected grain shipments or just quite how fucked shit was. Also like said, he cared too much about innocent life.

He wasn't there for most of it, yeah. That and Arthas didn't argue his case well.

>Uther turns up.
>No time to explain Uther, kill all these innocents before they turn into zombies. Yes they look fine right now but shut up
>The fuck? Why would I kill them?
>Traitor, obey your king!
>You're still the prince right now, you can't order me about and I wouldn't blindly follow that order even if you were the king.
>Well fuck off them!

Arthas was very, very quick to jump straight to 'Anyone who doesn't immediately obey me is a traitor'.

Remember folks, Legion has taught us that redemption is just corruption going towards the opposite end of the spectrum. That's why Metzen left, he realized he couldn't take his fetish any further.

I would have been fine if Legion had run with the theme of people blinded by their good goals that they lose sight of the means by which they seek to achieve those goals. Illidan would have been a perfect poster child for that. Xe'ra could have shown that even the Naaru forget that mortal races have their own feelings, even ones as zealous as Illidan.
It could have been the dangers of fanaticism and the Xe'ra incident would give Illidan an arc of introspection as to just what he's been doing.
But nope. He's still blindly pushing forward.
All these "Light" folks are just new takes on the Scarlet Crusade. With half the charisma.

>The Ebon Blade
>Still holding a hammer.

...has Blizzard gotten that comically oversized with weapons these days that they've just turned swords into cubic lumps of metal?

>I can't remember, had Arthas killed Kel'Thuzad by that point?

He was very dead, yeah.

He didn't exactly say dead.

>didn't exactly stay* dead

It's probably more that a potential Death Knight Uther would be involved with, you know, the Knights of the Ebon Blade.

Well yeah but it took Arthas bringing him back. Sans the Lich king he'd have stayed dead.

Yeah, Arthas and the Lich King also needed the Sunwell to tap into enough power to raise old Kel.

He's coming back Veeky Forums.

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if anyone is still playing retail wow, better rush up your AQ/Thunderfury/Cenarion Circle rep farms, I suspect they're nuking it. They quickly said they wouldn't nuke old Karazhan when they updated it, but they ahven't said the same about the entire Silithus.

AQ probably won't be affected, it's the area at the south of that map.

Just like in several things, never say never, they nuked SM after saying once they wouldn't remove it, then muh Challenge Mode happened and it got nuked.

What's in the bottom?

I thought that was to help fuel Kel's transformation into a Lich powerful enough to open the way for the Legion at Dalaran?

They shape of the hole should give you a hint.

One of the necromancers in the mission says that Kel was so powerful they needed the Sunwell's energy to properly raise him as a lich.
Could have been bullshit, or just for fluff.

>his eye beam that hit for 1 million damage will no longer 1-shot or even 5-shot players.

they're gonna pull a fucking Firelands Ragnaros and give him legs and a full body, I can already scry this shit.

what am i looking at here, a map?

Arthas and Uther carry out the purge, Jaina returns to Dalaran to try and devise a cure for the other cities/villages that are not so far gone. Uther falls in battle with Mal'Ganis, and a grief-stricken Arthas with no Jaina to cool him off immediately pursues him to Northrend with the rest of the Silver Hand.

Everything past that point will largely remain the same, except perhaps there's no need to burn the ships. With Uther dead, the Silver Hand paladins who accompany Arthas will likely follow him to the ends of the earth seeking vengeance, where the rank-and-file soldiers he brought in the actual timeline would follow the King's orders over Arthas. No real changes, except now generic Death Knights get a cool backstory as the fallen brothers of the Silver Hand.

the eye of sargeras

>Arthas and Uther carry out the purge,

The situation was a quarantine, not a purge.

Did you actually play Warcraft III?

Because they start turning into zombies, like, literally as soon as Uther and Jaina leave. If they would have stuck around for just five more minutes, they would have understood that there was no other option. Plus Mal'Ganis was there actively turning the population too. The only quarantine that would have been effective would have been for the troops returning from the purge. Arthas did nothing wrong except lose his temper on Uther.

>Uther falls in battle with Mal'Ganis

That seems iffy. Uther was a serious challenge (Heck, in game he'll win unless you use minions to help) to Arthas even with Frostmourne and Frostmourne Arthas killed Ma'Ganis. Arthas was a rookie paladin at the time.

here, I have a pretty hard time imagining Uther falling against Mal'Ganis. Remember, Arthas one-shotted Mal'Ganis with Frostmourne like it wasn't even a thing. I mean, it could happen, but I dunno I think Uther would definitely have an advantage unless Mal'Ganis caught him seriously outnumbered.

Mal'Ganis' "defeat" was just part of Ner'zhul's keikaku.
It was all a show to help Arthas fall to the corruption of Frostmourne and leave him open to Ner'zhul's influences.

Yeah it's iffy, I just like "Arthas, hero who fell pursuing vengance" more than the "Arthas, Prince of Assholes" character we actually got.

A well-made sympathetic villain needs a good motive, ya know? You can't kill Jaina at this point because the entire timeline goes to shit, but Uther dies later on anyway. "Avenging the death of a loved one" is perfect motive for a hero to fall, and Uther is really the only one that fits.

>Mal'Ganis' "defeat" was just part of Ner'zhul's keikaku.

No, Ner'zhul thought he was actually killing him (And nearly did). That's why Mal'Ganis wants revenge on him.

Me, Jaina's a pretty superfluous character. Her only main narrative purpose was telling daddy to fuck off to drive home how the Horde finally got its act together. Her role as governor of Theramore could've been filled by a baker's dozen of other notable characters.

Plus if she died then Arthas could've come back and raised her. A lot more interesting and creepier than resurrecting his horse.

no jaina means no humans on kalimdor, that's kind of a big deal i think

>if Legion had run with the theme of people blinded by their good goals that they lose sight of the means by which they seek to achieve those goals.
I think it actually did so. Partially. But with a twist. See, Odyn is a dick, but he's so self-righteous that it makes everything he does automatically good, since it's for a good cause and all.

I think the proper lesson here is that even if the "ends" are so good that they really do justify the "means", we shouldn't confuse that with the "means" themself being good. Xe'ra literally praises all of the bullshit "sacrifice" Illidan's been up to, says he's done nothing wrong, when even Illidan's blind eyes can see that he's been a cunt to absolutely everyone. He acknowledges his brother is better than he is, and that it's his own fault no one likes him.

Even if you're being a dick for the greater good, you're still a dick. Never forget that.

which is what finally made me like Illidan, he is the first guy to recognize he's a fuck up, sure, for the right reasons, but still a huge retardo. And started calling bullshit on everyone and their fucking sanctimonious Light, while everyone babbles about it, it can be as mind destructive as the Shadow, and he also refused the chosen one mantle, which would have been met with a huge groan had he accepted it.\
The writing became so stupid, that Illidan became the sane man for once, let that sink in.

The Horde would have never been able to siege Lordaeron without Alterac, because the mountain passes would have slowed them down so much that the rest of the forces would have caught up. Few in number Alterac was, but numbers aren't everything, or else Mance would have taken the Wall.

Fact is Perenolde was a coward, and instead of sacrificing whatever he could to halt the enemy, he became the only Human Warchief and Alterac the only Horde human nation.

Okay guys you get to rewrite all of Warcraft's story starting from Warcraft 1.

What do you do?

Keep up to WC3, heavily modify the rest.

Fat Bottomed Girls is Anduin's themesong. (The Priestess/Paladin that died, Moira getting reverse-durnholme-syndrome for him, and the Dwarf kite lady in Pandaria.)

Well it was till WoD flattened out Dwarf asses, still wide but no curve to the rear anymore.

Horde used Alterac as optional shortcut, but could go through future Plaguelands.

Hey! Tess is MY waifu! Anduin can get his own. Plus, rogue and priest don't exactly sound like a match made in heaven.

Everything after Wrath doesn't happen. Maybe Pandaria, but not the rest. Instead, the story becomes a full war as heroes, mercenaries, and adventurers all rise in power, having become famous (or infamous) during the Scourgewar. The Defias are an entire rebel kingdom, led by Vanessa. The Goblins become a major world power, having hired many of the more cutthroat adventurers. Some psychotics overthrow the reigning powers in Southern Kalimdor, claiming land for the newly reborn Laughing Skull clan. Blackrock Mountain is once again a military powerhouse, this time home to a ragtag gang of elite adventurers, including the forty heroes who defeated Ragnaros. The Scarlet Crusade gains significant power as people from both factions finally get tired of warlocks death knights, rogues, and all the other mass murdering adventurers.

Such a fuck'n shame, lad. Still nelf girls got it worse, spacegoats got a tit nerf, but nelves lost nearly all female shape, they look terrible. Instead Femsakens got a booty boost. Hooray, I mean, Heresy of the highest caliber.

Femsaken with the Leather X (the best face) now look like shit, with the leather strips covering less face and stacking higher from it.

Dwarves also lost tits and got reallt big chins, foreheads and noses.

Female Nightelves didn't seem TOO badly effected but I wasn't paying too much attention.

>but nelves lost nearly all female shape, they look terrible

Jokes on you, muscled babes are indeed new Blizz's fetish.

Nelves got hip reduction, tit nerf, bacon skinned legs, abs. Absolutamente Asqueroso. Also best femsaken face is number two, no blemishes, a perfectly pristine cute face with those beautiful yellow eyes.

FemHumans got the best treatment from the racial update.

Reading The Tomb of Sargeras (transcription of the audiobook available of WoW's youtube) confirms that there is only one Legion, it's people on alt Draenor that got semi-created by having that timeline stabilized.

Here's A Thousand Years of War, to see what Turalyon and Alleria have been up to since end of Beyond the Dark Portal.

Coming of no surprise, Maiev is obnoxious, arrogant, and full of herself.

That still has to best Khadgar's best art I've seen to date, pic related is second best.

Just shows that the writing has gone full circle and passed the event horizon.
The blind man sees all might be a trope, but at least decently executed, which is already a miracle by standard wc quality.

This one is great too. Remember, he did his math.

Other art for The Tomb of Sargeras

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And from A Thousand Years of War

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