Did your party ever encounter "victim-less crime" bad guys?

That sounds like a plot hook for the PCs to overthrow this cabal of tyrants and monsters.

>Vampires and werewolves, which feed only on lepers and societal outcasts.

...That's not a victimless crime, dude.

We fought a villain who said this to us:

>"If I fail none of this will have ever mattered, if I succeed none of this will have ever happened. Either way my only choice is to press forward even if I draw the ire of the world."

How do you respond to something like that?

beat him up and take his stuff

"If there's no point, why go on? You just said that it's pointless. Why not choose to not be a monster?"

>"What am I supposed to do? Just pump money into the leper shanty-town? It's just a waste, they're gonna die anyway. We need that money to support the orphanage in the first place."

>cabal of tyrants and monsters

takealookatthisguy.jpg

When a dog is frothing at the mouth you don't engage it in philosophical debate, you just put it down.

>It will matter to those you crushed along the way, and it is for them that you will be ground to dust.

>That's not a victimless crime, dude.

Are Lepers and Outcasts covered by the law? Pretty sure they weren't.

>I know you must be very smart, since you use all those big words. And I'm not really smart, since when I think too hard, my head begins to hurt. But I look at you, and you're hurting people. You kill children. And then you call yourself a good guy. That don't make much sense. Way I see it, you're an evil asshole. And I'm gonna stop you now.

>If I fail none of this will have ever mattered, if I succeed none of this will have ever happened.
Somebody watched Wakfu.

...you're saying vampires have the right to eat me because I'm not a normie?

I stab him.

What are you, an HIV rapist?

>"victim-less crime" bad guys?
You know what's the first thing that comes to mind?

Assuming we're talking ACTUAL victimless crime, then yes. Most of what you're talking about involves victims. My games have included:

>Necromancer who helps recover the lost wealth of the dead for families/estates/archaologists in exchange for a share.
>Succubutt prostitute (duh)
>Breaking Bad feat. Nagash
>Robin Hood + Mr. Robot by way of Tiamat.

What's that?

>I've never fought human trash trying to kill me.

Sweet, Delusional, child.

Looks like ShindoL but I don't recall that one.

Bondrewd doesn't do victimless crimes, but I do think he offers an even BETTER moral dilemma for the players:

How would your players react to someone who is objectively an abhorrent monster of a human being. Like way, way past the point of even considering redemption. The sort of guy where the more you learn about his crimes, the more horrifying they become because the added context just makes things worse.

...and yet he is also the only reason there is any hope for possibly saving the world, because he is the only one who has discovered the impending extinction level event calamity the world is on track for. Information that his incredibly inhumane experiments were directly responsible for discovering, and indeed the reason no one else knows the world is going to end is because they never accomplished his horrific feats.

But on the third, mutant hand he didn't know he was going to find potentially world saving info when he started doing horrible things.

>Vampires and werewolves, which feed only on lepers and societal outcasts.
>for some reason lepers aren't innocents because they have leprosy

I assume you desperately need replies to validate your lack of life so take this post and use it well, because it's all I'm going to give you.

>"victim-less crime"
> lepers and societal outcasts.
i spy at least 2 very broad categories of victim here

>Did your party ever encounter "victim-less crime" bad guys?
>Vampires and werewolves, which feed only on lepers and societal outcasts.
>Mad scientists that use criminals for their experiments.
I'm pretty sure a victimless crime needs to not have victims.
>Necromancers and witches, which only resurrect/summon restless spirits to help them move on.
I don't really get this. The restless spirits are being resurrected and that somehow helps them to move on? Sounds like a pretty major detour, supposing that they're being brought back only to be sent away ASAP.

> Sounds like a pretty major detour, supposing that they're being brought back only to be sent away ASAP.

You're nothing thinking about it the right way. Something went wrong with dying, so the way to fix it is obvious:

Try turning it on and off again.

I've thrown something quite fun to watch my players wrestle with. Not so much a victemless crime, but something PCs hated seeing, while everyone involved were all for it and the Party were meant to side with.

Party were inter-dimensional Border control, and went on a diplomatic mission to a dimension that had just discovered inter-dimensional tech. The ruling system was a parliament made up of different members of a rigid class system, where the higher ranking castes were powerful and rich, while the lower ones were poor and functionally powerless. There was a religous group who practiced pure Meritocracy, and wanted it to be established, but were opposed to the Interdimensional tech since it allowed knowledge of stuff like Minotuars, giants and Elves to become known, which went against their philosophy of "Everyone is born perfectly equal, everything is gained." It was a good half an hour of arguing over whether or not to help the Meritocrats come to power, despite the fact that the ruling class were incentivising a group the party thought were trying to kill them at the time. They were actually trying to assassinate the son of the President who was with them, but good old fashioned PC aggravation led to them becoming targets. (1/2 an hour on their version of twitter is more effective than any real life action.)

>Try turning it on and off again.
"Welcome to the NecroTech support hotline, how can I help you?"

>Well then, you know more about it than me. I tried really hard to keep it from coming to this, but I reckon it can't be helped now. In the event that what you say is true, that you have to win, and you somehow do....Do me a favor would ya? Try not to kill me, I think I'd like to see my girl at least one more time.

I played the end of The Sunless Citadel like this for my party. I made the villain an alchemist trying to isolate a type of Barkskin Potion that would essentially turn petty criminals into a natural hazmat crew with superhuman poison resistance.

They elected to kill him and trash his research because they didn't like the idea of deforming criminals for the good of mankind. Not exactly blameless, but I wrote it to have the good consequences outweigh the bad.

>Mad Scientist
>Described as Mad straight up. Not even a pragmatic scientist or a Loose Morals scientist. Just mad
>Must have some deal with the city in order to use criminals for his experiments, meaning the city benefits in some way from giving him test subjects
>When the criminal population starts to run low this incentivizes the city to start more harshly enforcing laws, or enacting new ones in order to keep the Mad Scientist supplied

There's like five different reasons you went wrong here user

I love this. I might be running sunless citadel for some hippies next month and I'm definitely stealing this

I too have come across those horrid swarms of lepers, roaming the streets like a pack of hungry wolves, trying to kill me by hurling their fingers at me yelling all sorts of horrible and nasty slurs. I can still hear that poor couple being stabbed to death by those very same lepers. Such monsters.

So you fought Nox is what you're saying. Your DM isn't very creative.

Frieza?

So why can't he show the fruits of his "research" to others.

Tell him to think about that in 20 minutes.

An ancient necromancer who used evil forbidden magic to once more raise his ruined temple home from underground into the heavens so he can relive the height of his empire's might. The magic was forbidden for no reason other than "ew magic is evil" government and the temple was in the middle of Bumblefuck Backwoods sandwiched between Shitwater Nowhere and No Man's Land and thus would've at worst made somebody's good porcelain set come falling off the shelves. But he had to be stopped because the guy was an ancient necromancer tyrant and nobody wants those floating in their temples.

That just sounds needlessly contrived. Kill him and pass his research on to someone more trustworthy. You can't undo his past crimes and I'm not gonna take a holier than thou approach and say that world saving magic/tech shouldn't be used because it's built on a pile of corpses, but that also doesn't forgive the guy for making a pile of corpses in the first place.

Setting specific. Basically, there is giant hole in the ground that has a bunch of cool shit in it from bygone civilizations, as well as a unique ecosystem of monsters. To make matters worse, going down is fine but going back up fucks you up. The deeper you go, the harsher the 'curse' hits you, and after a certain depth the effect is just that it flat out kills you. You anyone who goes past a certain depth is just effectively dead, no one will ever see them again.

Bondrewd studies this phenomenon and folklore around it, primarily that traveling as a group can sometimes help mitigate the effects of the curse and realizes that the curse lessening effect in a group, while unreliable, isn't random. Its based on emotional attachment. People who really care for another person in their party end up taking a good chunk of the effect off of that person and on to themselves. This is not a conscious choice, it just happens if you like them enough.

Bondrewd makes some equipment that helps shield himself from the curse, but its effect is very slight. His crowning achievement is is his 'Cartridge' system. Its a backpack he wears that absorbs the curse for him until it burns out, and then he has to make a new cartridge.

He makes new cartridges by adopting children, who are emotionally very pliable, and being the Best Dad until they love him. Then he drugs them unconscious so they never wake up again, surgically cuts them down to the minimum required for life, and jams them into his backpack. Using them as a shield from the curse, he has gone down further into the abyss than anyone else could ever survive and returned, but he has to keep this secret even as he reaps the rewards because if people knew where he was going, they would want to know how. And if they knew how, they would try to stop him.

But that's how he knows about whats coming, what no ones else knows or could know. Because they cant go that deep and live to tell about it.

>victim-less crime
>Vampires and werewolves, which feed only on lepers and societal outcasts
>Mad scientists that use criminals for their experiments
Apparently people who suffer from illnesses, antisocial people, and those too poor to afford bread are subhumans that don't count as people.

Ahh yes, because as we all know only the lowest of human scum become lepers after all.

>That feeling when you wanna make a BONEDAD for your next 5E game

What Race/Class do you think would work best for him?

Problem is that there is nobody to give that research to. He is the only expert in the field with the tech, resources, manpower and ability to do this research because he needs to be in the most hellish place on Earth to conduct it and has used years or decades to set everything up using using countless artefacts and giving up his humanity in the process.

And by the time you produce specialists capable of doing it in his place it'll probably be too late.

this sounds like an awful lot like that anime

Source?

So if I kill the OP, it's a victim-less crime because he's human trash. Got it.

Fluffy or non fluffy?

You have no idea what a victimless crime is, do you?

>And by the time you produce specialists capable of doing it in his place it'll probably be too late.

More random contrivances for the sake of creating a pointless moral dilemma.

Stop using fiction to explore useless shit.

> he offers a POINTLESS moral dilemma for the players

>megalomaniacal mad doc waxes poetic about how he's humanity's only hope and that justifies his atrocities

I still see only one way this ends.

It's mostly just a consequence of the setting. He's not even much more than an antagonist in one of the story arcs and the protagonists have no real interest in bringing him to justice or solving the moral dilemma behind his actions.

He doesn't actually talk about the only hope or how noble his goals are. He never really even seems to consider that his actions are atrocities or there's any moral complexity behind his research.
He's mostly just doing it for his own curiosity, but it's a fact that his research could save the world and he likely has no problems with sharing it once he's done, since he's known for spreading novel solutions and wondrous medicines without much care.

>You're in my sunlight

So he's not even bothering to argue his case? And he can't even process what he's doing is wrong? I still shoot him.

Your situation is contrived nonsense because it 1) assumes horrendously immoral acts are the only way to solve whatever problem is affecting humanity and 2) the players are naive or stupid enough to take that at face value. It's not clever or "subversive". It's just barely a step above Orc Baby What Do. If stopping Josef Menegele's bullshit dooms humanity then that's a bridge I'll burn when I get to it.

"Well you've drawn my ire and I'm gonna kill you for it."
Heroes don't need to be good people.

It's implied that he actually does know that what he's doing is horrid and evil, but only because of the perspective of another character. Bondrewd himself never tries to justify his actions.

>1) assumes horrendously immoral acts are the only way to solve whatever problem is affecting humanity
The issue is not so much that it's the only way, but that it's the necessary first step. Without completing it it's impossible to understand the principles behind the problem and come up with a better solution.

"Humanity had its chance."

>The issue is not so much that it's the only way, but that it's the necessary first step
Literally the same thing. But fine, I'll buy it for a second. It's convenient but I guess you can explain it. But you're not giving your players any kind of real moral dilemma here. You're just giving them a no-win scenario and then thinking it's clever. If they kill this fucker then you chuckle about how they're stupid and short sighted. If they don't, you get to nya-nya to them about they doomed humanity. GMs like you suck.

You do realize that the conversation is about a fictional character from a story rather than a DMPC from some RPG, right?

Would you be so kind as to regale us with your tales of slaying hordes of lepers, user?

This is that anime. I'm describing the character from OP's image, because I think that makes for a more interesting moral curveball than OP's 'vitcimless crimes: now with extra victims!' BS.

Also would appreciate. It's something called "DaH" but couldn't pinpoint it just by that.

So let me get this straight - an ill person that needs a 3 weeks long curation with antibiotics is a subhuman that can be killed due to said illness and nobody can be blamed? And, say, unmarried couples can be brutally ripped into pieces, because hey, they weren't married, making them local outcasts in their rural small town.

Son, you are so fucking dense it's not even funny

Either or is fine honestly.

Don't apply your 21th century ideologies to medieval peasants. Back then lepra's were considered subhuman monstrosities and local outcast are outcasts because they were not considered human as well, or else they wouldn't be outcasted.