So Fantasy Flight is making a generic Role playing game using the Narrative Dice system

Or better yet, I'd rather 1 core book contain the system, and a toolbox for making your own setting. So you can do a campaign in whatever you want from the starter book alone. But then they release setting supplements to give you more focus and tailored options. Like what gurps and fate does.

I never GM in an established setting or campaign book. I always homebrew that part.

Putting all your eggs in one basket is never normally a good idea, I get that it will save them time and money but they're being lazy.

The article that came out a few months ago seemed to imply that there'd be five 'general' settings in the core book. These settings are more like guidelines, advising you how to set up a particular genre for a game in Genesys, rather than detailed, self-contained settings. I think they were sci-fi, steampunk, fantasy, modern day and weird war, or something.

So the core rules will come with generic advice for skills in a generic modern setting, which you can hack together into a cyberpunk setting, or you can go out and buy the 'Netrunner' book with detailed setting notes for that particular game.

Ok I can dig that. It seems like a good compromise. I'll be keeping an eye on this. I never played with their unique dice system, but outside of Veeky Forums I've only heard good things about it.

Any idea of around when these are to be released? Please don't tell me they will be kickstarted.

Okay, I'm excited now. I just wrapped up a game of Star Wars using their system (party wiped) and I've been chatting with my players and they all seemed to like the system really well. If they're making a "setting free" system that uses the narrative dice, they have my money already.

Time for some science-fantasy chaos against the Lunar Nazis and Martian Commies.

FFG's store page says Q4 2017. You can preorder it now.

At the printer.

Since it is just a book and some dice probably wont be long.

That's basically what they are doing, user.

The splats for the book are supposedly shit like the Runebound universe, the Arkham Horror universe, Netrunner, etc converted for easy play in those settings with pre-made characters and such, but the core book is the mechanics and how to make it do whatever the fuck you want it to do.

I got a buddy who is already stoked into using it to run Cyberpunk because he loved the setting and theme but felt the combat system was garbage.

I think it is more them fixing an issue with people complaining about the dice being game specific and by making a standard foundation for the rest of their RPG line to be built on with their gaming dice it really addresses the main complaint of dice only being good for one game.

I wonder how much Warhammer 3e dice bag is worth? Has basically 20 complete sets in it.

Sounds pretty cool desu

Are they making any changes?

I really hated the probabilities of these die favoring failing a roll with advantage. Will they be providing actual GM advice worth a damn in a narrative frame work? Star Wars was severely lacking even with a good NPC system and gear.

>Will they be providing actual GM advice worth a damn in a narrative frame work? Star Wars was severely lacking even with a good NPC system and gear.
what does this even mean

To be fair, people frequently fuck up and use to many challenge dice for a lot of shit.

Melee in star wars for example? It is fucking retarded they two challenge dice for hitting a fucker with a weapon if that is your aim. It is literally hitting some random dude who never focused on melee combat training for shit in his life since everyone is packing a blaster.

That is one of the was Warhammer's Dice pool was better. Attacks vs someone's defense? It was always 1 challenge dice unless something specifically stated otherwise. It made it easy as hell to hit and get hit.

Star Wars has a much higher fail rate for attacks because of the average difficulty being used far too frequently.

You can easily mitigate some of the problem by just being character focused, but even if you went melee heavy in star wars you were pretty fucked to be honest. It is incredibly easy to just step back for your movement and shoot someone at point blank range for a good chunk of damage.

The only benefit to melee combat was the damage output was usually pretty high, most melee weapons had pierce, and most had a piss easy to obtain critical rating (which means they should one shot basic enemies the way we play. A critical hit is just that. A CRITICAL hit, it is an instant KO on everything but bosses).

>You can easily mitigate some of the problem by just being character focused, but even if you went melee heavy in star wars you were pretty fucked to be honest.

Does that include Jedi? As I noticed not all Jedi classes start with Lightsaber training. I'm putting together a duelist jedi (Well, padawan) for a game and now I'm a tad worried.

Star Wars didn't offer much in terms of DM advice on how to effectively run a game. They gave you plenty of resources, but didn't drop enough ideas.

Warhammer for example, explained story arcs, chase mechanics, social settings uses, investigations, all the enemies has adventure ideas that made the group likely to take them on as main adversaries, setting up plot hooks, how to let your player's guide the story, how to give them the illusion of guiding the story when you are the one doing so and other such advice.

Star Wars is a good system in a lot of ways, but from a DM perspective, if you didn't know much about how to run an RPG, it was lacking, and for a brand new system, it was especially lacking in laying down fundamentals for a new DM to get the most out of the system.

What was in there wasn't bad, but it could have used a lot more depth in that regard and it wouldn't have taken up more than maybe a couple of dozen pages to really give a DM a good grasp of what to do on the fly and adventure creation.

FnD helped melee focus characters shine a lot more, but at the most basic level you are still bringing a knife to gun fight on a universal scale.

A lightsaber's main bonus it is incredibly easy to crit with the thing and do massive damage even in the already incredibly crit heavy focused melee pool.

It is a viable option, user for jedi's but if you aren't a jedi, you better be a wookiee or some other fuck huge race that can soak up damage or else you are going to eat blaster pretty damn fast.

Never played a narrative dice game but I'm willing to try if the supplements are cool enough

>Time for some science-fantasy chaos against the Lunar Nazis and Martian Commies
That's actually gonna be pretty easy with the core book, since "Weird War" and "Sci-Fi" are two of the settings they're using as examples.

>It is incredibly easy to just step back for your movement and shoot someone at point blank range for a good chunk of damage.
I mean, you can do the same with melee. Unless special talents are involved, a character gets 1 maneuver, 1 action, and can take a second maneuver by suffering strain. (some traits might grant a free maneuver, but you can never maneuver more than twice unless you give up your action)

So if you're already engaged, sure you can step back and shoot on your turn. But then meleefag just steps forward and swings for his turn, rinse repeat. You can take two maneuvers to move twice as far, but so can he. The only way you're staying out of melee range is if you give up your attack, and even then the meleefag can keep pace with you the whole way.

> (which means they should one shot basic enemies the way we play. A critical hit is just that. A CRITICAL hit, it is an instant KO on everything but bosses).
that's literally what the rules are for the most part. NPCs are Minion, Rival, or Nemesis. Minions die instantly if they get critted, Minions and Rivals take wounds instead of strain. Nemeses act like PCs.

My bigger issue is that the dice are explicitly a narrative tool with way more degrees of success than other game systems, but the GM advice was always boring shit like reducing strain and not ways to enhance the story.

Compared to a system like Apocalypse World where the GM advice is clear on how to continuously complicate a situation and have players jump off each other using the dice results SW gave some of the worst advice I have seen. There almost no nuts and bolts advice, most of what they have is super generic high level structures. Running Star Wars is a pain in the ass with these dice, and i was curious if that would be the same moving forward.

Based on it sounds like the game just didn't use the dice that well, so I guess there is hope that a generic system will be better.

Huh. I haven't played WH so I don't have that frame of reference, but I haven't had that problem with Star Wars at all. Granted though, I'm pretty experienced DM with an autistic fascination with Star Wars so I'm not looking at it with "fresh" eyes.

>Melee in star wars for example? It is fucking retarded they two challenge dice for hitting a fucker with a weapon if that is your aim. It is literally hitting some random dude who never focused on melee combat training for shit in his life since everyone is packing a blaster.

Except that this is a lie. The difficulty to hit someone at Engaged or Short range is one difficulty die. At engaged range, ranged (light) and ranged (heavy) attacks suffer a +1 and +2 difficulty die penalty respectively, but hitting someone with a lightsaber in melee? Always just a single difficulty.

>melee character
>volunteering to suffer strain
Yes, we all wanted your character to be passed out cold.

Except for nemesis where it all becomes a whiff fest unless force powers get brought out.

RAW says melee attacks are always an average difficulty check. That is 2 challenge dice.

>but the GM advice was always boring shit like reducing strain and not ways to enhance the story.
Why do these have to be mutually exclusive? The bread and butter "fallback" uses for advantage/threat are reducing/inflicting strain, or adding a boost/setback to another character's check, but that doesn't mean they can't influence the narrative. You make an attack and get advantage, you want to inflict strain? The blast set your target's sleeve on fire. Give an ally a boost? You used a feint to distract them from your ally's attack. Inflict a setback? You pierced a steam pipe which is now spraying in the target's face, obscuring his vision.

If a character has a strain threshold that low, they're not melee focused.

Actually, melee attacks are always two difficulty, but you're right otherwise; a ranged (light) would be equal difficulty, with ranged (heavy) being one difficulty higher.

2 difficulty. Challenge are the red D12s, Difficulty are purple D8s.

>A lightsaber's main bonus it is incredibly easy to crit with the thing and do massive damage even in the already incredibly crit heavy focused melee pool.

Well, for the moment I only have a training lightsaber. A full one was well outside my price range.

I think you pretty accurately summed up why the GM advice is terrible in a way you don't even realize.

That low? How high would is possibly be?

Melee characters need the strain stat the least, and are the most vulnerable for receiving the highest amount of strain anyways. It's not like you are getting your strain threshold that high in the system anyways, and it just takes a few encounters and strenuous skill checks to wind up close to passing out.

>That low? How high would is possibly be?
Look at the scenario presented; A rangedfag is engaged with a meleefag, and wants to disengage. The previous user suggested that all he needs to do is take a step back and pummel the meleefag with ranged attacks, but that's not how it works because the meleefag can keep pace with him every turn without even suffering strain. I suggested that additionally he has the OPTION of suffering 2 strain to move even faster. That doesn't equal "passed out cold." That equals "breaking a sweat."

>and it just takes a few encounters and strenuous skill checks to wind up close to passing out.

After every encounter, a character can make a Simple (-) Resilience check to recover strain.

Resilience is a Brawn skill. Meleefags use Brawn. Ergo, Meleefags recover more strain than anyone else after an encounter.

But that's all moot, because the core argument is that a rangedfag isn't royally fucked if he starts in melee range.

Please enlighten me, O Fountain of Wisdom.

... but they do, especially WoD and most editions of Shadowrun.

What's a good system?

How does it feel being a nigger with wrong opinions?

They're not "being lazy," they're doing what the market wants. FFG's Star Wars RPG has consistently been like the 3rd best selling RPG since it's release, after D&D and PF. I get it, YOU don't like it, but it seems a LOT of people do, otherwise it wouldn't be the third biggest RPG on the market right now.

It's the third biggest RPG because it's fucking Star Wars you nong. It has nothing to do with the quality of the rules.

I'd like to adapt it to the 2e whfrpg with the myriad of starting careers, trappings and all that, plus its just fun having someone roll up dung collector or peasant farmer as a random starting character and the next lot ends up a noble or mercenary soldier and student for a complete debacle of a party.
Run a lot of the FFG star wars, aside from some minor niggles with gear and vehicle rules, it does roll along as a fairly quick, easy system for people to use and a fucking godsend for GM's that don't want to spend hours upon hours making up npcs and shit. Heck a small combat encounter in SW will take you 20-30min max, whereas in D&D (3.5) that always seems to end up being 2hr of cross referencing books, looking up talents, spells and other shrieking autistic bullshit.

People wouldn't keep playing it and buying splats and adventures and expansions if they didn't like the game.

While this is true, it's not as true as you'd like us to believe. The set dressing helps, but if it was an absolutely shit-tastic system, it wouldn't be as popular. Contrast X-Wing with Attack Wing - both popular franchises, both similar games, but Attack Wing has some crucial design flaws which pissed off the playerbase and discouraged new players from entering.

Besides, as user pointed out, the other top contenders are Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons #. Those are both crunch heavy roll-playing systems. There's room at the top for a narrative roleplaying system.

Counterpoint: SWd20

Counter-counter point: It was the d20 boom, EVERYTHING d20 was selling like hotcakes. Once the boom died so did d20 SW, then SAGA was short lived. Because neither game had a strong enough system to keep them going, they couldn't just ride the IP alone.

Shadowrun doesn't suck, but the sheer amount of dice does, WOD sucks because of how damn swingy it is, not played SWD6.

Dice pools are hardly ever done right.

I hate this, I hate it so much

There's no way in hell they're NOT going to use this for L5R, they'll replace a beautiful and elegant dice system that perfectly fits the setting and theme with these fucking snowflake dice.

I love L5R, and want other people to love it too, but if this is how it must continue, I'd rather it never get another RPG release ever again

Play 40k, then talk to me about "sheer amounts of dice". Shadowrun is nothing.

Not him but there's no denying the Star Wars brand recognition helps a lot.

You know the super popular X-Wing and attack wing game was originally an unrelated World War game called Wings of War right? I know because I was like one third of the player base.

>AHH BLOO BLOO BLOO
No one cares about you crying in the corner.

L5R is going to thrive again, probably even reaching a new height in popularity it could never have hoped to achieve under AEG.

Try not to get so depressed that people are having fun in a way you don't like that you kill yourself.

Actually, maybe you should.

>Not him but there's no denying the Star Wars brand recognition helps a lot.
It helps, but it isn't the whole of it. It drew people to the system, but being a good game is what keeps them coming back.

What kind of limp-wristed manlet doesn't want to throw two handfuls of dice for his attack roll?

Probably brainlets who panic and scramble for a calculator when they have to add more than two numbers together.

Awesome

The new card game looks fantastic, each clan feels different, your means of achieving your goals are as varied as they were before, now it isn't a CCG so it isn't held back by the trappings of being collectable, and FFG seem to understand how their tournament-based storytelling should work better than AEG did.

But it's still sad to think that the best dice pool system is going to be forgotten in favour of FFG's money-grabbing technique.

>But it's still sad to think that the best dice pool system is going to be forgotten in favour of FFG's money-grabbing technique.
It's going to be sad. But you know what's going to be sadder? All the anons who are going to bitch and moan about it for at least a year in the L5R generals.

It'll probably be the best edition on L5R since 1e, but you're all going to cry and cry because it's not R&K, and that's sad. Just give a game a chance instead of judging it for being different, for once.

Nahhh

I'll just keep playing 4e and making stupid jokes about this silly, silly system, trying to keep what I love relevant in some why rather than letting it drop into obscurity

Also don't be a fucking liar, 1e L5R is hot garbage

Jokes are jokes but don't let FFGL5R's inevitable mass appeal and 4e's inevitable fall into obscurity get to you too badly. We don't want more news reports about anons killing themselves over tabletop games sparking another Satanic Panic.

Have you never felt attachment to something valuable that got tossed aside and forgotten?

You seem very callous about this. Keep in mind that we're not going to get L5R-Pathfinder here, the only continuation of the formula is in Dungeons the Dragoning, which isn't exactly well-known

>it helps, but it isn't the whole of it. It drew people to the system, but being a good game is what keeps them coming back.

True. Having your favourite miniature game die from of lack of recognition. Only to come back to Star Wars bemusing to say the least.

God now I know how Kurosawa must've felt.

They might, they might not. They didn't with Dark Heresy.

It's gonna be up to some bullshit internal politics reason not what the fans are even designers want.

Hasbro owns Dungeons & Dragons and my little pony. Yeah Tales of a equestria still got loaned out to ninja division of all fucking people.

You seem really, really mad that some people like an older system.

They've already basically announced that it's the Narrative Dice system.
fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/9/26/legend-of-the-five-rings-rpg-beta/

You seem really, really mad some people might like a newer system.

You can't play that card when you literally opened this conversation with a post about how mad you are about a system change.

Nah. I'm a different guy than the one you've been talking to. FFG is a pretty good system. I played in one game a year ago, ran a few one shots, and will probably run it as my next game since I've got a bunch of Star Wars fans for friends hopped up on the new game. The loss of R&K is a shame since 7th Sea also dropped it, but FFG has their big system they want to go with and a whole new product launch, so it makes sense for them. The beta is next week so we can all take a look for ourselves.

While you're gleefully talking about 4e fading into obscurity and how that dude should kill himself, FFG put all the 4e books onto DriveThru as PDFs and POD. They're clearly going to coexist for a long time. How long did John Wick keep you in his sex dungeon for you to be so happy with the idea of it going away? Did he make you wear a gimp mask with Ronin written on the forehead?

I'm not a fucking autistic manchild, I'll miss R&K and will always have fond memories of it but I'm not going to stamp my feet and throw a tantrum over FFG using a different system. And if you really loved L5R that much you'd want to support its new beginnings too instead of acting like a brat because of a different system.

SR DOES suck though...

No,, that's the problem, I do rather like L5R, but I like the R&K dice system more than I like the L5R setting.

An L5R RPG without R&K isn't worth it in my eyes, my main reason for enjoying the RPG is gone. It would be better if the RPG series simply died off, rather than FFG trying to get people to forget R&K

Still, at least the card game looks good

>FFG put all the 4e books onto DriveThru as PDFs and POD.
Sadly not all pod though.

Which is a shame since it's the only way I'd ever be able to justify buying the 4th core book.
Secondhand prices are painful

In that case, if what you enjoyed was R&K how about taking a crack at homebrewing a "generic" R&K so you can use it any time you want?

L5R fans like L5R for L5R first and foremost. Yes, we like R&K, but if non-R&K L5R is a dealbreaker for you then you're not an L5R fan after all, you're an R&K fan.

In any case, byebye, you won't be missed.

I had a great store in my town that sold me most of the L5R and WFRP 2e lines for MSRP way after they went out of print. Unfortunately it was also a kind of shady head shop and they got busted selling synthetic marijuana to minors. Closed down not long after.

RIP inexplicable dudeweed store. Your weirdly complete RPG selection will live on in my heart.

>It would be better if the RPG series simply died off, rather than FFG trying to get people to forget R&K
FFG's intent isn't nearly as malicious as you're trying to make it out to be. They've got the entire 4e line on DriveThru for fuck's sake.

>only two Boost dice

Found the guy who never played the system.

You can be a fan of two things at once

I like L5R, and I want the card game to succeed, I will keep up with the game and see the story unfold, hopefully resulting in the Mantis Clan coming back. So no, non-R&K L5R is fine in my eyes.

Just not as an RPG

Hey how about you wait until the free beta drops and give it a try before acting like an overly dramatic entitled shit?

>the [...] beta
You mean Star Wars?

Next week they're releasing a free beta of the L5R iteration. Read the news article about it, there do appear to be some significant changes from SW and differences from Genesys, like the Ring-based Approaches.

I'm excited. I've wanted generic dice for that system ever aince I first tried it out.

>My bigger issue is that the dice are explicitly a narrative tool with way more degrees of success than other game systems, but the GM advice was always boring shit like reducing strain and not ways to enhance the story.

I want generic dice and a basic key for how the concept works. That is all they have to give me. I might not even buy the book if its the same level of advice.

If its better? Maybe ill get it.

fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/9/29/extra-motivation/

There's a new preview that gives a little peak at that kind of "advice."

>Symbols in rules text

God fucking damnit.

Hey, that's not too bad. Its kind of clinical, but that's to be expected.

The Boost dice must flow

Oh please, if they didn't use the symbols you'd bitch about how they expect you to memorize what term refers to what symbol or die. Using the same symbols on the dice or symbols the same color and shape as the dice is fucking brilliant.

Agreed. When games have symbols and don't use them in their rules, it sucks.

That is 1000% better than the Star Wars advice already. At least there is advice for something besides combat.

Still boring as fuck for a narrative system.

Those symbols can't be the symbols they chose... the bottom table symbols are extremely similar.

>They didn't with Dark Heresy.
The system wasn't around when Dark Heresy hit the shelves.

>What is your opinion on the narrative dice system?
Really annoying.
At first it sounds cool "oh sweet, non-binary success/failure! This is a far cry from the nothing but D&D I've been playing" but then when you actually play you have success/failure dice, advantage/disadvantage dice, superbad/supergood dice. And the DM have to contrive things for every fucking roll. Seems like it would get tiresome very quickly.

Confirmed for not understanding how it works.

I've never had an issue with it. As a GM I've found that it helps Roll-players role play and get them more involved. Also, as a GM that makes bones and tries to have players flesh out plots, it creates more interaction points between you and the players. It's, overall, surprisingly good for both sides.

That being said, having to learn a new language of symbols and colors feels like a needless complication. But...eh...

I believe one of their press posts said you could get by with either the core or the splat. Though, my guess is that the GM will have core and players will pick up whatever splat catches their eye as usually seems to be the case.

looks like a pain in the ass and it seems like it's suppose to do the same thing as DRM

>the militant new-blooder
relax. you are not on a holy war against evil oppresive grognards. you are just retarded.